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ATVI Investor Call Reveals High Profits While Simultaneously Laying Off 8% of Blizzard's Workforce

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited February 2019
    For further context to: "The number of developers working on Call of Duty, Candy Crush, Overwatch, Warcraft®, Hearthstone and Diablo® in aggregate will increase approximately 20% over the course of 2019."

    What does 20% mean?
    Its given against a specific list of games. So - I suspect - it means moving staff from "underperforming" titles onto those that they have listed.

    The wonders of wordsmithing.
    Slapshot1188[Deleted User]ThaharSabrac[Deleted User]
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919

    DMKano said:

    800 lost jobs 



    Sounds like these are the US numbers with more to come outside of the US.
    KyleranwingoodThahar[Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    makes me not want to touch classic wow with a 10 ft pole.
    Awesome, then they'll likely have to lay off more people 

    Better to spend profusely, think of the children.

    ;)
    Cryomatrix[Deleted User]Kootur

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Iselin said:
    SBFord said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    SBFord said:
    They said that "mobile is our top priority" across all IPs and franchises.

    It's the first investor call I've ever listened to from a company of Activision-Blizzard's size that didn't announce a new game or expansion. Literally nothing new in 2019.

    They will definitely be adding more devs to push out more content more quickly, but time will tell how that will translate over time. Honestly, it all felt like such PR speak that it made my head hurt. :D

    Brack sounded out of his depth, IMO.
    It's all PR speak of course. And the PR is spun to make it sound like refocusing on core, best year ever, etc.

    Has Blizzard ever announced some new game or expansion in those calls? I may be wrong but their MO has always struck me as never revealing anything new unless it's at Blizzcon and almost fully cooked.

    Blizzcon you say... will they even have a Blizzcon this year?

    Blizzcon is always a financial loss - not sure if Blizzard is willing to eat the cost again for the sake of fans
    How do you measure financial loss against PR? Does Quakecon actually make money? 

    The "PR" from their last Blizzcon wounded them terribly. I think in financially troubled times like 2019, they'll ditch it to "focus on development". We'll see how that turns out.
    IDK but they screwed it up and they need to be seen to be able to rebound with a good vibes Blizzcon for their public image and investor confidence. Cancelling it in 2019 would just look too much like they are giving up and don't have the confidence that they can still produce a positive public event.

    Not all AAA studio/publishers have these yearly things. Blizz, Bethesda and SC are actually the only ones I can think of. It's certainly not required but after establishing the pattern, breaking the pattern would look like they're really in dire straights. Does any company want to be perceived that way? 
    Maybe they will do something "100% electronically": film some devs (scripted); first showing of some trailers; some (scripted) announcements, maybe even "hire" a band to perform a few tracks. They could even take some questions - time to script the answers prior to giving them! To better connect to a wider audience you understand.
    MadFrenchie[Deleted User]
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Iselin said:

    This quote is missing in order to put this into context:

    "The number of developers working on Call of Duty, Candy Crush, Overwatch, Warcraft®, Hearthstone and Diablo® in aggregate will increase approximately 20% over the course of 2019."

    It sucks to be laid off, of course, but the increases to staff actually developing games and not just publishing or propping eSports sounds alright to me.



    This is a pretty harsh statement to make. 20% increase in staff does not automatically mean that games are going to be better. They ruined 800 lives today. I don't give a damn why they did it. If they wanted to do something that would, you know, be the humane thing to do, execs would take paycuts to fund the salaries of those 800 jobs.
    GdemamiKootur
  • acidbloodacidblood Member RarePosts: 878
    edited February 2019
    So the executives made bad calls, pissed off the consumer base, and ruined games with MTX, but it's the 'expendable' staff that suffer... They can try to spin this however they like, but just as with EA, Activision Blizzard is pretty much irredeemable at this point.

    Kyleran said:



    makes me not want to touch classic wow with a 10 ft pole.


    Awesome, then they'll likely have to lay off more people 

    Better to spend profusely, think of the children.

    ;)

    Yeah it would be a shame if they couldn't give their CFO another $15 million bonus next year...

    And don't worry, I will spend profusely, on Cyberpunk 2077.
    CelciusMargraveThaharVorthanioninfomatzTacticalZombeh[Deleted User]Gdemami
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030


    makes me not want to touch classic wow with a 10 ft pole.



    Me neither.

    I'll be playing a Tauren Shaman. The poll may need to be longer than that.

    You stay sassy!

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,045

    gervaise1 said:

    For further context to:

    "The number of developers working on Call of Duty, Candy Crush, Overwatch, Warcraft®, Hearthstone and Diablo® in aggregate will increase approximately 20% over the course of 2019."




    What does 20% mean?


    Its given against a specific list of games. So - I suspect - it means moving staff from "underperforming" titles onto those that they have listed.



    The wonders of wordsmithing.



    No, they are cutting support jobs to hire more developers.
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030
    edited February 2019

    BobVa said:

    Blizzard lost his soul in 2018, especially with Mike Morhaime leaving the company.



    "Bizzard is like your best friend for 20 years and suddenly.. died"



    I will miss Blizzard, for sure.



    About the article, all I can see is PR. Add that to MOBILE IS A TOP priority , and you have my above comment to sum it up , very good.



    "MOBILE IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR US"

    Yup. The title and body content could only have been that line, and that's about all I needed to know.

    Yeesh, I just read too that the most prolific CM on the official Wow forums, across all forums for the last 2 years or so, was included in the firing.

    Community engagement is apparently NOT in the restructuring plan.
    MadFrenchieTacticalZombeh[Deleted User]Gdemami

    You stay sassy!

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited February 2019
    Celcius said:

    Iselin said:

    This quote is missing in order to put this into context:

    "The number of developers working on Call of Duty, Candy Crush, Overwatch, Warcraft®, Hearthstone and Diablo® in aggregate will increase approximately 20% over the course of 2019."

    It sucks to be laid off, of course, but the increases to staff actually developing games and not just publishing or propping eSports sounds alright to me.



    This is a pretty harsh statement to make. 20% increase in staff does not automatically mean that games are going to be better. They ruined 800 lives today. I don't give a damn why they did it. If they wanted to do something that would, you know, be the humane thing to do, execs would take paycuts to fund the salaries of those 800 jobs.
    No argument from me about the ones at the top taking home $20 mil + per year needing to be the ones that feel the pain. It's a fucked up system that always has the low level workers paying for the mistakes of the top execs.

    But that was not my point and there was nothing harsh about it.

    I posted here last week that a notice popped up in the Diablo section of the Blizz launcher that led to a link with about 15 Diablo related jobs for an "unannounced project." Some of those jobs were fairly senior too. So although the quote I used is obviously part PR to show investors that the core game development is thriving it is also true that at least with respect to Diablo, they are indeed creating some new development jobs at the same time they're downsizing in the esports and publishing side of things.

    Edit. Here's the link to those jobs: 
    https://careers.blizzard.com/en-us/openings/all/diablo/all/all/1?blzcmp=app
    Gdemami
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  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,371
    Time to sell the stock I see.
    Gdemami
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878

    Iselin said:


    Celcius said:



    Iselin said:


    This quote is missing in order to put this into context:

    "The number of developers working on Call of Duty, Candy Crush, Overwatch, Warcraft®, Hearthstone and Diablo® in aggregate will increase approximately 20% over the course of 2019."

    It sucks to be laid off, of course, but the increases to staff actually developing games and not just publishing or propping eSports sounds alright to me.






    This is a pretty harsh statement to make. 20% increase in staff does not automatically mean that games are going to be better. They ruined 800 lives today. I don't give a damn why they did it. If they wanted to do something that would, you know, be the humane thing to do, execs would take paycuts to fund the salaries of those 800 jobs.


    No argument from me about the ones at the top taking home $20 mil + per year needing to be the ones that feel the pain. It's a fucked up system that always has the low level workers paying for the mistakes of the top execs.

    But that was not my point and there was nothing harsh about it.

    I posted here last week that a notice popped up in the Diablo section of the Blizz launcher that led to a link with about 15 Diablo related jobs for an "unannounced project." Some of those jobs were fairly senior too. So although the quote I used is obviously part PR to show investors that the core game development is thriving it is also true that at least with respect to Diablo, they are indeed creating some new development jobs at the same time they're downsizing in the esports and publishing side of things.



    Fair enough, I misinterpreted what you said. The system is indeed a complete mess.
    Gdemami
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited February 2019
        These were bloated positions , the result of a long bloated industry that is realigning itself , many positions became quite unnecessary and taking resources that can be better used else where ..

     These things happen in every industry , and these folks are getting things, many do not , .

    The letter also promised “a comprehensive severance package,” continued health benefits, career coaching, and job placement assistance as well as profit-sharing bonuses for the previous year to those who are being laid off at Blizzard.. Very good of ATVI

      Lots of people get laid off all year with no such luxuries , so please hold back the tears here...

    [Deleted User]Kyleran[Deleted User]Kootur
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited February 2019
    Gotta love the word "restructuring" and how kotick offers nothing to address thew situation,but to simply say "we didn't do as well as expected".

    He doesn't say something like "i thought our games were good they just didn't profit enough or maybe our games are not quite good enough so we need to do better but nope,his statement was a lazy one.

    Now of course depending how the laid off are treated we may expect to hear a lot of sour grapes or maybe even the truth about working at Blizzard.Often they just flash some bills in their face to basically bribe them into saying nice things on the way out.

    To me is very simple,i can see with my own eyes the lack of effort from a business making multiple millions.I just look at Star citizen,a game with a 300 mill budget that looks like 50k worth of work went into it.

    When the game "hearthstone"was making your business massive boatloads of money and you can't even respect the game or the players enough to add a UI for tournament mode,you are one greedy lazy ass developer.
    When you make multiple millions,drive around in fancy cars,live in posh homes all from the Diablo series and all you can do to give back to the community is telling them you want to sell them a mobile app....lmao,seriously,Blizzard execs had better take a look in the mirror because they would see faces that haven't a clue what they are doing.

    This is what happens when you make too much money and have it too easy selling every game you release,sooner or later gamer's get tired of cheap crap.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878
    edited February 2019

    Scorchien said:

        These were bloated positions , the result of a long bloated industry that is realigning itself , many positions became quite unnecessary and taking resources that can be better used else where ..

     These things happen in every industry , and these folks are getting things, many do not , .

    The letter also promised “a comprehensive severance package,” continued
    health benefits, career coaching, and job placement assistance as well
    as profit-sharing bonuses for the previous year to those who are being
    laid off at Blizzard.. Very good of ATVI

      Lots of people get laid off all year with no such luxuries , so please hold back the tears here...




    I mean, it is great that they are offering those things, but just because things work that way doesn't mean it should. People have every right to be upset about it. It is utterly despicable behavior of a few people in suits who don't have ANYTHING to do with the game's themselves.
    Gdemami
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Tamanous said:

    BobVa said:

    <snip>
    About the article, all I can see is PR. Add that to MOBILE IS A TOP priority , and you have my above comment to sum it up , very good.

    "MOBILE IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR US"

    Yup. The title and body content could only have been that line, and that's about all I needed to know.
    Does this mobile wasn't a priority? They spent c. $5.5B buying King after all. Must be why King's MAUs have fallen from 474M (investor presentation Nov'15) to todays 268M. 

    A loss of 206M. 

    Or maybe this is why mobile is a top priority ...... 




  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Celcius said:

    Scorchien said:

        These were bloated positions , the result of a long bloated industry that is realigning itself , many positions became quite unnecessary and taking resources that can be better used else where ..

     These things happen in every industry , and these folks are getting things, many do not , .

    The letter also promised “a comprehensive severance package,” continued
    health benefits, career coaching, and job placement assistance as well
    as profit-sharing bonuses for the previous year to those who are being
    laid off at Blizzard.. Very good of ATVI

      Lots of people get laid off all year with no such luxuries , so please hold back the tears here...




    I mean, it is great that they are offering those things, but just because things work that way doesn't mean it should. People have every right to be upset about it. It is utterly despicable behavior of a few people in suits who don't have ANYTHING to do with the game's themselves.
     


      First its working exactly as it SHOULD work , every business in every Industry grows/expands/Hires/declines/layoff

          No business has defied this yet ,Time/Tech/Labor/Market dictate this and make it so ..

       Second , these suits have alot to do with the games/decisions/direction/marketing/IPs/Directionof, wether good or bad
    CelciusGdemamisquibbly
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030
    gervaise1 said:
    Tamanous said:

    BobVa said:

    <snip>
    About the article, all I can see is PR. Add that to MOBILE IS A TOP priority , and you have my above comment to sum it up , very good.

    "MOBILE IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR US"

    Yup. The title and body content could only have been that line, and that's about all I needed to know.
    Does this mobile wasn't a priority? They spent c. $5.5B buying King after all. Must be why King's MAUs have fallen from 474M (investor presentation Nov'15) to todays 268M. 

    A loss of 206M. 

    Or maybe this is why mobile is a top priority ...... 




    Well clearly you missed my point then.

    You stay sassy!

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,878
    edited February 2019

    Scorchien said:


    Celcius said:



    Scorchien said:


        These were bloated positions , the result of a long bloated industry that is realigning itself , many positions became quite unnecessary and taking resources that can be better used else where ..

     These things happen in every industry , and these folks are getting things, many do not , .

    The letter also promised “a comprehensive severance package,” continued

    health benefits, career coaching, and job placement assistance as well

    as profit-sharing bonuses for the previous year to those who are being

    laid off at Blizzard.. Very good of ATVI

      Lots of people get laid off all year with no such luxuries , so please hold back the tears here...







    I mean, it is great that they are offering those things, but just because things work that way doesn't mean it should. People have every right to be upset about it. It is utterly despicable behavior of a few people in suits who don't have ANYTHING to do with the game's themselves.

     


      First its working exactly as it SHOULD work , every business in every Industry grows/expands/Hires/declines/layoff

          No business has defied this yet ,Time/Tech/Labor/Market dictate this and make it so ..

       Second , these suits have alot to do with the games/decisions/direction/marketing/IPs/Directionof, wether good or bad



    Again, I don't care that it is the current state of things. It shouldn't be. This is a company that laid people off after a record year. This is not something that is common in the games industry and shouldn't be common. There are pretty much 2-3 companies that do this within gaming. All this does is further prove the destructive nature of these companies. Fortunately, there are a ton of fantastic companies just a step below these that don't have to deal with this non-sense. Also, those suits have nothing to do with the games. Just the money. I am talking about how they have no input on design, testing, or community management on the ground floor.
    GdemamiKootur
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Celcius said:

    Scorchien said:


    Celcius said:



    Scorchien said:


        These were bloated positions , the result of a long bloated industry that is realigning itself , many positions became quite unnecessary and taking resources that can be better used else where ..

     These things happen in every industry , and these folks are getting things, many do not , .

    The letter also promised “a comprehensive severance package,” continued

    health benefits, career coaching, and job placement assistance as well

    as profit-sharing bonuses for the previous year to those who are being

    laid off at Blizzard.. Very good of ATVI

      Lots of people get laid off all year with no such luxuries , so please hold back the tears here...







    I mean, it is great that they are offering those things, but just because things work that way doesn't mean it should. People have every right to be upset about it. It is utterly despicable behavior of a few people in suits who don't have ANYTHING to do with the game's themselves.

     


      First its working exactly as it SHOULD work , every business in every Industry grows/expands/Hires/declines/layoff

          No business has defied this yet ,Time/Tech/Labor/Market dictate this and make it so ..

       Second , these suits have alot to do with the games/decisions/direction/marketing/IPs/Directionof, wether good or bad



    Again, I don't care that it is the current state of things. It shouldn't be. This is a company that laid people off after a record year. This is not something that is common in the games industry and shouldn't be common. There are pretty much 2-3 companies that do this within gaming. All this does is further prove the destructive nature of these companies. Fortunately, there are a ton of fantastic companies just a step below these that don't have to deal with this non-sense. Also, those suits have nothing to do with the games. Just the money. I am talking about how they have no input on design, testing, or community management on the ground floor.
    you , are very misguided
    CelciusKyleraninfomatzThaharKootursquibbly
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,652
    DMKano said:
    I have never understood how 1 person in the company can justify making $15 million.

    Take a developer that busts ass and is making $150,000 - how can one person be worth 100 developers of that caliber?

    Its absurd. Maybe a CEO is worth 10 people if he is really exceptional, still hard to swallow but I can see 1.5mil

    but 100 people? No way in hell.

    It's a shame that the payscale disparity of this magnitude is acceptable as "normal"

    I have no problem with people making money.  I do have a problem with executives getting huge bonuses while laying off employees.
    GdemamiKootur

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  • foppoteefoppotee Member RarePosts: 537
    Corporate fat cats making $15m bonus even before doing anything, a company making almost $2b, laying off around 800 people so stock holders & the company's top fat cats can suckle at the teet, news of the massive lay offs sending stock pricing soaring. Sickening, but I won't be touching Activision nor Blizzard anymore with my wallet. Let them go mobile with more gambling.
    GdemamiKootur
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    DMKano said:
    <snip>

    IMO leadership change with a massive reorganization would be needed.

    Blizzard would need to collapse into several smaller companies IMO to remain agile and quick to change with rapidly shifting market.


    800 employees = 8%. So prior to this c. 10,000 employees. Plus another c.500 at Bungee that - in essence - they were employing. Big for a game company but pretty small compared to many industrial, production and retail companies - that will have mid-level managers looking after that many employees and budgets. (At a fraction of the salaries.)
    CryomatrixKyleran
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    edited February 2019
    Okay guys, to put a few things about capitalism in perspective. I feel a few people in this thread have no idea how capitalism works. 

    1) CEO's making mega million dollars is actually justified in my opinion. Capitalism is based on the premise that you get paid for what you bring in as well as the drop off in replacement level. 

    2) A CEO of a billion dollar company literally can be the difference of profits tanking vs profits taking off if they are able to turn around the company. If you have a billion dollar company that is making only 100 million dollar profit where it made 500 million dollars before. You hire the right person for 20 million/year and in a 10 year span you go back to 400 million profit, that's 300m+ per year x 10. That one person made your company 3 billion dollars. That is definitely worth the 200 million you spent on them. Hell if i could pay someone 20k per year to make me 300k, isn't it a no-brainer. Would you pay someone 20 million to make you 300 million?

    The problem that we see, is we hear the stories like blizzard where the top person makes 15 mil per year and then 800 people have to get laid off. 

    And people on this thread are like the CEO should take a pay cut so 800 people don't lose their jobs? That's silly just based on the numbers. 

    Do you know how much 800 people cost a company per year? Take those 800 people at $15 per hour and their wage is 30k. 

    800 x 30k = 24 million. Plus, you're not including the taxes and all the other crap, a company usually shells out more than whatever the salary is. Plus, we know they all aren't making CA minimum wage. 

    I bet you those 800 people probably cost blizzard at least 30-40 million in wages + benefits per year. So if the CEO takes 50% of his salary, so he'll save 7.5m million dollars, what will that do, keep the 800 on the dole for a few more months?



    3) Why does a programmer who busts their ass for $150k and the CEO makes 100x their salary . . . it is because the drop off from hiring any ole fucking developer isn't going to make or break your profit. But a CEO . . . can make or break your profit. 

    Perhaps, if the old CEO had gone into mobile 5-10 years ago, perhaps blizzard's profit would be a factor higher. A programmer is replaceable, the right CEO isn't. 

    4) Another example of capitalism where you get paid for what you bring in. 

    Example A:
    - A dermatologist who basically treats acne and non-urgent rashes all day makes 400-500k easy

    Example B:
    - A pediatrician who gets called in to emergency deliveries at all hours of the night for ultra small (a pound in weight) infants makes 150-200k

    A person would be like, that makes no sense, who cares about acne, go save babies. I'll respond by saying the way insurance is set up in the US, the dermatologist brings in more money from insurance companies. Hence, they get paid more. 

    5) Do you know which state employee makes the most money in Michigan . . . now think of the president of the University of Michigan or the Chief Neurosurgeon of U of M and know that their salary is completely dwarfed by the University of Michigan's Football coach (he makes 7 million). 

    Now don't cry foul. It actually makes perfect sense why he gets paid 7 million dollars.  








    Kyleran[Deleted User]GdemamiKootur
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    On another aspect. 

    Blizzard is just restructuring their company. They basically said, what divisions are most and least profitable and let's cut costs on the least profitable aspect. So they got rid of eSports and publishing things and they will focus on more development. They also gave a severance package. 

    That's called smart business, no I don't think their being greedy, and no I don't think the CEO is an asshole, I think they're just trying to be more profitable. 

    Yes, it sucks to be laid off, the human factor sucks, but at the same time, this is business in a capitalistic society. 
    KyleranGdemamiKootur
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
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