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UPS APC, CyberPower, Tripp-lite, Eeaton or other

MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
in Hardware
Who makes the best UPS, quiet, longevity and cost? 

Research online seems to point to CyberPower. 

“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

--John Ruskin







Best Answer

  • QuizzicalQuizzical LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Answer ✓
    It depends on what you need.  Any standby or line-interactive UPS should be silent except when you lose power.  A double-conversion one will be noisy, but I'd question why you need that.

    A lot of companies will offer a variety of products, and their higher end ones are better than their lower end ones.  Which is the best at a given price point could vary from day to day as prices bounce around with various sales or discounts.

    CyberPower's high end consumer line offers a true sine wave output, while everyone else (including nearly all of CyberPower's line) offers a "simulated" sine wave output, which is really a step function.  It does matter just how many steps are in that step function, but that usually isn't documented.  In the worst cases, it can be a square wave, which is just plain bad.  How clean the waveform needs to be depends some on what your power supply can handle, and that's something that power supply reviews generally don't consider.

    I've used a CyberPower UPS for about the last decade.  The batteries wore out after about six years, and were a major pain to replace because the mechanism to replace them was assembled wrongly on my particular unit.  The replacement batteries from some other brand lasted about three years before wearing out.

    For what it's worth, CyberPower Systems, the maker of UPSes, is a totally different company from CyberPower PC, the maker of gaming desktops.

Answers

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    So you suggest a pure sine wave output?

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Like


    or




    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    edited February 2019
    Im not sure about who makes best models but the old APC XS-1500 lasts around 10-15 years if you take care of it.

    If you have the knowledge of IT field you can just replace the relays in them when they fail because that is likely what happens first and get it for more years of use.

    Though if just the average consumer with no knowledge $150 every 5 years gets an APC b attery that usually lasts for 5 - 8 years minimum, battery replacement every 3-5 years or rather usually just buy a new unit unless using www.refurbups.com
    Phry
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    edited February 2019
    MMOman101 said:
    So you suggest a pure sine wave output?

    On an infinite budget, yes.  It's definitely more expensive, and probably doesn't actually matter in the real world, though.  Power supplies are built to be able to handle anything kind of similar to the proper wave form, and good quality UPSes that don't have a true sine wave output are plenty close enough.  That's why CyberPower didn't offer it until several years ago, and I don't think anyone else offers it at all.

    Think of it is kind of like the difference between a really great power supply and one that is merely pretty good, but with exactly the same energy efficiency.  Everyone agrees that 10 mV of ripple on a +12 V rail is better than 30 mV of ripple, but it's unlikely to ever make a real-world difference, and the specification allows up to 120 mV.  The problem with power supplies isn't the ones that are pretty good.  It's the ones that are bad.  

    CyberPower's UPSes with a pure sine wave likely aren't any better than some others in their lineup in any way other than the output waveform.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited February 2019
    Eaton is the best from my research, and we are moving over all our UPSes to Eaton now that APC is going down hill. You will pay for it though - they are industrial quality.

    APC was the brand to go to up until recently. They were acquired by Schneider Electric a few years back, and their quality isn't as good as it once was... or maybe it's just they've stayed stagnant while everyone else caught up.

    Cyberpower is a consumer brand - nothing wrong with them for consumer use. I'd put them on par with APC consumer gear.

    Lots of UPS companies offer pure sine wave output. What you really want to look for is voltage correction. Not all UPSes offer it, and some call it trade names (Auto Voltage Regulation, Brownout protection, Auto-Transformer. etc). Any UPS will kick on when the power goes out. What you really want is a UPS that will protect you when the voltage droops but doesn't drop entirely - that's what really kills electronics. I think that's much more important to look for than pure sine wave output.

    Also make sure the unit has a user-replaceable battery. They are almost always just standard sealed lead acid, but some of the lower end units don't give you access to swap it out. They only last for 3-5 years on average, and it's almost always much cheaper to swap out the battery than to buy a new UPS, especially if you are getting a sizable UPS that can power more than just a router.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    There are three different topologies that are common.  A standby UPS means that it does nothing until it sees that power has gone out, at which point, it kicks in.  A line-interactive UPS will additionally monitor the voltage, and can correct the voltage within some range without having to go to the battery.  That can make a huge difference in a brownout where you have a low voltage coming from the wall, which can wreck hardware if it runs for an extended amount of time on that.  If the situation is bad enough, a line-interactive UPS will drop the power coming from the wall and go to the battery, just like a standby UPS.  Relatively lower end consumer UPSes are generally standby, while relatively higher end ones are generally line-interactive.

    There is also double-conversion, which will always feed power from the battery, and uses the input power from the wall to recharge the battery.  That's good for really critical situations where someone could die if a system reboots due to a power blip, as it avoids some milliseconds of badness while a standby or line-interactive UPS recognizes that power has gone out and switches from wall power to battery.  For example, some medical equipment is critical to keep running when it is needed.

    A double-conversion UPS is ridiculous for a gaming desktop, though.  It's not just that they cost a lot more.  That double-conversion can easily burn about 50 W and make a lot of noise, too.  If your gaming desktop has an unwanted reboot once every few years because the UPS batteries were dead and you didn't realize it, oh well.  If you want a high quality UPS for a gaming rig, a line-interactive topology is the thing to look for.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    When you're picking a UPS for a gaming desktop, ignore the VA rating.  The watts rating is the thing to look at.  Remember that that's wattage pulled from the UPS, which will exceed the wattage pulled from your power supply, both due to power supply inefficiencies and other things like monitors that don't go through your computer's power supply.

    Larger UPSes commonly offer longer runtime on battery, too.  This doesn't actually matter that much.  When you lose power, you probably want to wait a few seconds to see if it's going to come right back.  If not, then you just want to save your work and shut down cleanly, which shouldn't take very long.  Once during a lengthy power outage, Windows decided it was a good time to install updates as part of the shutdown process when I wanted it to just turn off immediately.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited February 2019
    I agree that runtime isn't all that important.

    VA and Watts are related. VA is the hard and fast limit, which is why it's used. Watts is a calculation and you could see two units with identical VA ratings, but publish different Watt ratings. The manufacturer is making an educated guess on wattage. VA rating should be higher than wattage rating (another reason they put that on the box, it's the bigger number).

    In general, if you know the wattage you want, you can look for a VA rating of between 1.25-1.5x the wattage and that's a good number to look for. For a typical gaming computer, plugging in the computer, a single monitor, and maybe a few light peripherals, a rating of around 800VA should be sufficient. 

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    You weren't kidding when you said Eaton does industrial UPSes.  I looked through their web site and they list one that can do over 1 MW and weighs nearly six tons.  They didn't list a price tag on their web site.

    For their units more appropriate to a gaming desktop, they're a lot more expensive than other brands for a given wattage as listed on New Egg.  If you say that the reason is that they're higher quality, then I believe you; I haven't looked into it myself.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited February 2019
    Something like this would be appropriate for a desktop from Eaton

    https://smile.amazon.com/Eaton-Electrical-5P750-External-UPS/dp/B00CF1P4JO

    Yeah, it's about twice the price of a similar Cyberpower

    https://smile.amazon.com/CyberPower-AVRG750U-System-Outlets-Compact/dp/B0122YQDMK/

    Depends on what reliability is worth to you. The Eaton would be something I would expect to buy once, and just replace batteries for the next 15-20 years (that's what I have got from older APC units, but newer ones aren't holding up nearly as well). I don't know if Cyberpower is the same or not.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    edited February 2019
    I normally never shop from Amazon, only newegg



    $130 is significantly higher.  The Eaton website has the MSRP at $529.


    I fount this on newegg:

    Thoughts?

    Edit:  I went to the Amazon sellers site:

    They list it for $120.

    This makes me think of something that is too good to be true. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    MMOman101 said:

    Edit:  I went to the Amazon sellers site:

    They list it for $120.

    This makes me think of something that is too good to be true. 

    My, that site is a mess.  Never mind the price.  They've got a bunch of category headers that you can select that will say that they don't have anything to sell in that category, but just lists three reviews that rate something or other as five stars.  I'm not sure what they're trying to do, but it does make me suspicious that they're not trying to sell you legitimate hardware.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    I used to be a big Newegg buyer. Then I bought a few WD Red hard drives, and they arrived thrown in a box with next to no packing material, and they refused to accept a return.

    They all failed within a months time, to no one's surprise. Fortunately, WD warranty support took care of them.

    I don't buy much from them any more if I can help it. I do still use their web site to search, but usually I can find a competitive price somewhere else.

    Amazon isn't always the lowest price, but it's a fairly common vendor that usually has decent customer service and support. More than anything, I was just linking to the example product and a place it ~could~ be bought (assuming you aren't a qualified Eaton reseller or bulk purchaser). Not necessarily recommending you buy it via Amazon.
    Phry
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    Also interesting... but completely ancedotal.

    I went to the MadePC web site, they list a New Jersey address. Cool

    I popped their street address into Google Maps.

    The building there matches up with the picture they have on the MadePC website. Cool

    There's no signage on the side of the building though, like there is on the web site picture.... and a few pricey cars in the parking lot. Also, Google lists a different company located at that address.

    Doesn't prove or disprove anything, not every company pays to promote via Google and have it listed. Just some interesting findings.
    AmazingAveryQuizzicalPhry
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Ridelynn said:
    Also interesting... but completely ancedotal.

    I went to the MadePC web site, they list a New Jersey address. Cool

    I popped their street address into Google Maps.

    The building there matches up with the picture they have on the MadePC website. Cool

    There's no signage on the side of the building though, like there is on the web site picture.... and a few pricey cars in the parking lot. Also, Google lists a different company located at that address.

    Doesn't prove or disprove anything, not every company pays to promote via Google and have it listed. Just some interesting findings.
    I just question a bit why it is so cheap.  It makes me wonder if it is refurb or has been sitting on a shelf for 3 years and the battery is on it's last legs. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Ridelynn said:
    I used to be a big Newegg buyer. Then I bought a few WD Red hard drives, and they arrived thrown in a box with next to no packing material, and they refused to accept a return.

    They all failed within a months time, to no one's surprise. Fortunately, WD warranty support took care of them.

    I don't buy much from them any more if I can help it. I do still use their web site to search, but usually I can find a competitive price somewhere else.

    Amazon isn't always the lowest price, but it's a fairly common vendor that usually has decent customer service and support. More than anything, I was just linking to the example product and a place it ~could~ be bought (assuming you aren't a qualified Eaton reseller or bulk purchaser). Not necessarily recommending you buy it via Amazon.
    I have been trying to shop at the Microcenter that is about 45 minutes away.  They only have a few UPS though and I think they tend to carry the higher profit margin ones. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







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