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Casual Vs. Dedicated
FrostWyrm
Member Posts: 1,036
On the surface, in recent years it's seemed as though the casual gamer
has dominated the market for MMORPG's. Just why is this, though? I, for
one, dont believe this to be true at all. The total lack of appeal in
todays games to the more dedicated crowd who actually enjoy things, such
as leveling, and high quality equipment not coming easily, or being able
to truly adventure, explore, make mistakes that hurt, and learn from it
rather than having the game guide you through while holding your hand
along the way simply leaves many unwilling to dedicate themselves to
their characters. In other words, the spirit is there, but todays game
content kills the desire.
In actuality, there probably are a lot more casual gamers than dedicated
ones, however what people dont seem to realize is that both audiences
most likely pull in about the same amount of money for game companies.
Casual gamers with higher numbers, and dedicated gamers with higher
spending through longer subscriptions, merchandising, fan conventions,
and so on. The only advantages companies have in appealing to casual
gamers is that they can churn out mediocre title after title as the
casual market is easier to please, i.e. they dont get bored as easily,
or ask for as much content, and they can boast about their number of
subscribers rather than the dedication of their fans.
There once was a time when developers cared more about the quality of
the product they released rather than how much they could milk it for. I
think dev's have really lost their passion for making games, and as
such, gamers without as much of a passion for playing games have grown
in number.
Now before I go on I realize that not all casual gamers are such because
they just arent that into gaming. A lot of it has to do with time and
real life constraints, just as not all dedicated gamers are strictly
raid or PvP junkies spouting l33t speech, trying to become uber so they
can "pwn" others. In addition, I definately do believe that there should
be casual-friendly games out there. Every type of gamer needs their
healthy dose of fun. Problem with this is that there are so many such
games, those of us who want a little more are left starving for it.
Vanguard does seem promising. Those who think that Sigil doesnt know
what they're doing in targeting the more dedicated gamer are just a
bunch of closed minded individuals who cant fathom the though of
anything different from their liking being acceptable...at least that's
my opinion. It's become apparent that both sides of the fence will never
be satisfied with the same game, so more companies should really think
of making more games that target dedicated mmorpg fans. Otherwise,
they're really only making half the profits they could be.
Business is business....but sometimes it pays to be passionate about
what you do.
Comments
I have 1 word for you.
Vanguard
I used to go for more hardcore mmorpgs then i thought what does hardcore actualy mean?
Grind
boring
2nd job
pointless waste of time
Arn't games meant to be fun? I tried WOW again after i pulled my head out of my arse and i found it funt his time
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
Quite interesting read ....
I agree "casual" gamers are more apt to buy the new game and stay for the free month (perhaps a little) more, and that "dedicated" gamers are the ones that continue to bring in the money. However "dedicated" gamers are also more likely to jumpship when the next big thing comes out. Look at COH, that game has a lot of both types of players it continues to draw casual gamers and the more dedicated ones are moving on to new games (or are awaiting the new expansion). EVE ONLINE is a game that has astounded me since it has a extremely dedicated hardcore group and continues to draw more and more casual gamers (I do not see howm but it has).
There is a need for both types of players and the devs have a hard time balancing a game for each type. You have to understand that there is a lot of gamers out there that just cannot dedicate 4 hours a night so that the can learn to craft an item, or complete a quest, build a castle, they play for fun and to relax a little, not to be uber or to take over the server. Casual gamers are not the cause of crappy games, more so I think that the extreme uber player are more of a detriment to games, they are more vocal about a game sucking and they are the ones that cause the worry for a dev (IMO). Yeah that game looks good on a P4 3.7 with the twin SLI graphic cards and 2gb of RAM but how does it look on a 2 year old machine? WOW has done a good thing with thier game.
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
If I am into a MMORPG I can play it 3-4 hours daily yet I raise skills slower than most people who play half that much or less. I consider myself casual for this very reason. It seems to me most gamers are hardcore. Most everyone tops out the character within a month or 2 where it would take me probably 8 months with my heavy play schedule. And I am not a bad player either, I usually always dedicate myself to raising skill and follow advice from the hardcore players.
I guess your are talking about open pvp/open looting/skill based junkies vs carebears though. Yeah, in that case the carebears do shape most the MMORPGS coming out.
You are probably right about that, but I am of the mind that those games that don't cater to the carebear players last longer and make more money in the long term. Carebear oriented games make the big bucks in the beginning but dwindle and eventually flop out.
Again the VS way of thinking.
As long as casuals rule the casual aspect of the game, they will be perfectly happy.
A casual should not care about a hardcore zone, as long as he rule the zones he play in and have all the tools he needs. So the ultimate uberloot from impossiblehardcore mobs should be junk in casuals area...
A level cap and a gear cap on every zone is the only way to fill that gap and make everyone happy. Hardcores wont care that much to be lame in casuals zones, they can always go and work their uberness in those zones in what seem to them like no time, a few days...but they will likely just skip it and go to try to reach the top in the hardest zones...
And casuals could enjoy playing the game and experiencing 90% of the graphics content and programming content, just missing a small part...
But no, companies like to give the best loot overall to folks who work hard to get it, and thereby folks want those aspects completely out of the game...if the rewards where more specific and less general, it would work better.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think it's just simple economics.
Let's take a fairly simple example:
Game A (casual friendly)
Sells 1m units at $50 = $ 50m box sales revenue
Assume only 300k stay for month 2-5, and 200k for months 6-12 at $15/month = $39m subs revenue
So even assuming a piss-poor retention rate, the game generates $89m for year 1.
Game B (hardcore)
Sells 300k units (probably a high number) = $15m box sales revenue
Assume 100% retention rate for months 2-12 at $15 = $49.5m
So, even making the unrealistic assumption of 100% retention, Game B makes only $64.5m. If it sells 500k boxes, it makes another $10m, but it's still almost $15m behind Game A, which is so bad it only retains 20% of its customers.
The moral of the story is that the more people who buy the box, the more money you will make. Yes, over the course of 5 years, Game B could make more money than Game A if Game A dies off (which it looks like it will do), but the people who made Game A will have already launched Game C by then, with its own independent revenue stream, thereby enriching the developers of Game A even more, and widening the gap in economic terms. This is why I honestly think that we will continue to see many games aiming to get the big market (which is casual), while smaller, independent developers with smaller budgets and overheads will go for the second type of return on their investment. CCP comes to mind as one of the latter, but it's not the only one.
You left out the sales of T-shirts, hats, themed mouspads, coffee
mugs, tickets to fanfairs and conventions as well as consessions sold
therein, and all the other extra earnings a company recieves from it's
more dedicated fans. This is what I meant by both audiences generating
about the same income. In addition, that "Game C" you mentioned could
also exist durring the life cyle of B as well, not just A, so making
it a possibility in only one senario is somewhat biased and
unrealistic.
There's more money to be made from a game than just box sales and
subscription fees.
Oh, I know. CCP has done all of that with EVE, and I guess they're the model for that: they're independent, small, low overhead, have these sidebar sources of revenue, and have a fanatically dedicated hardcore fanbase for their game. If we see more CCPs in the future, then that can be viable, but I don't think we'll see too many big game companies choosing to make game B over game A.
I'm going to step in here (really shouldn't but what the heck) and tell you all (starting with the original poster and what I say will apply to all who have posted) that you apparently don't have any concept of how to discuss a topic properly. Don't get me wrong - I suspect that I am seeing posts from caring, intelligent people - but your basic premise is ALL wrong.
I am going to take a leap here (based on LOTS of discussions of this same type and topic) and tell you that the core problem here is that none of you have bothered to do the most important part of any discussion and that is define your terms. One MUST do this so that everybody is on the same page. What do you (speaking now to the original poster and subsequently to all who have posted) really mean by "casual" or "dedicated" or "hard core". I see people flop these terms around like they were cut in stone somewhere! I have seen (and been part of) many discussions on this very topic and let me tell you that for as many people as there are posters there is usually that many different definitions of the terms "casual" and "hard core" (or whatever).
You MUST define and then agree on the meaning of the terms. One poster here has already aluded to this by telling us he considered himself "casual" ...
There can be NO meaningful discourse without agreeing on the definitions of the terms being discussed.
By "dedicated" or "hard core" do you mean (for example) someone who plays 4 or more hours a day? or do you mean someone whose prime goal is to be highest level as quickly as possible (ignoring any or all fun aspects of the game)? Or do you mean someone who gets with several other like minded people and looks for all possible exploits in the game (to kill uber mobs for example before anybody else)? Or what?
By the first possible definition I AM a hard core player - but not by the other definitions (I would be very casual by them). So what is the story? What do YOU want to really consider?
Next, please be very careful in using made up numbers (number of casual buyers, etc.) - this leads to NO good in a discussion and only confusion. Stick to REAL and DOCUMENTABLE facts.
If all else in life fails you, buy a vowel.
This all sounds very vague to me. Be more specific.
What exactly is it that games are doing that you feel caters to casuals and how can a game appeal more to hardcore gamers.
Is it the speed at which you gain experience? If the game is very shallow and has a heavy focus on leveling up; and only has one or two other dimensions to keep people interested, then I can see a good arguement for slowing down leveling. Slower leveling doesn't bother me at all but I think sometimes people get the rate of experience gain confused with difficulty/challenge. Killing 10 rats isn't really any more challenging than killing two, it just takes longer. But I would still tend to vote for slower experience gain in most games simply for the sake of longevity. But what I would really like is a game world that doesn't have to rely on such an obvious gimmick to keep people hooked.
Is it things like in game pop-up maps, radars, glowing pathways, instant travel, ect. which make things simple and requiring little thought or exploration? I personally hate all of that sort of thing. And I question whether casual players are universally in favor of it either. It seems to me that that stuff is meant more to make the game playable by idiots than it is to make it appealing to players who invest less-than-hardcore amounts of playtime in the game.
Is it about the number of people required to do content? Does it make you hardcore if you prefer to be lost in a crowd of 70 people you brought along with you to help? Does it make you casual if you prefer to be an integral part of a small group of 6 or so?
Does it make you hardcore if you prefer to be told what to do, how to do it, and when to do it by a raid leader? Does it make you casual if you prefer to think for yourself and succeed or fail with a small group based on your own merits? My bias is obviously showing through. I know for a fact that not all hardcore players like being faceless yes-men in uber raiding guilds.
Vanguard has been mentioned in this thread so I'll allow myself to blow off a little steam about that game. While I applaud the fact that they seem to be planning to do away with a lot of the -simplify it for the idiots- stuff. They are also creating a game that will, in the end, cater entirely to people who prefer not to think and do for themselves (except for the tiny percentage of people who do all the thinking for the great majority of others).
They are creating a game that will revolve entirely and exclusively around raiding. Mindless, tedious, face in the crowd, sit down, shut up and do as you're told...raiding. Oh, maybe not in the very early days. But as people reach the higher levels it will.
Why? Because the devs have stated very clearly the all the best stuff can only be obtained through raiding. So, by default, the game WILL revolve around raiding. Even crafting will revolve around raiding. I read through the very long Q&A crafting thread and a dev made it clear that top end crafting will require components that can only be gotten from raids and will sometimes even require the final stage of crafting to take place in the lair of uber raid bosses.
That sort of thinking just boggles my mind. It goes against the very concept of heroic fantasy. Heroic fantasy means sitting around staring at a wall for hours on end in a crowd of 70 or 80 people, most of whom don't even really know you? Heroic fantasy means doing as your told and never..NEVER..thinking for yourself or even presuming to offer a suggestion? Heroic fantasy means being herded through dungeons like so many cattle by the few lucky individuals who do get to think and plan? I don't think so. At least, that's not my heroic fantasy.
And that has nothing to do with being hardcore or dedicated. In fact, I would say say it makes you less of a player if you are willing to be herded around like lifestock and prefer to let others think for you. The people who can tolerate that sort of thing like it because it means that all the best stuff is reserved for them. Other people will hate it but will put themselves through it if it's the only path to achievement. And in Vanguard it WILL be the only path to achievment.
I know there are people who will say otherwise but everything I've read about Vanguard indicates that I'm right about this. I haven't seen a single quote from a dev which contradicts this but I've seen a lot of dev statements which confirm it. They say there will be single group content..yadda, yadda, yadda. But they have never once said that there will be any high end advancement path other than raiding that will allow players to try to be the best. So, once again, the game will, by default, revolve around raiding.
I realize I'm being a bit vitriolic here and I probably should tone it down a bit here at the end. If someone likes raiding that's fine and I don't really hold it against them. It just drives me crazy that a lot of people who like that playstyle also seem to want to reserve all top end achievment for themselves to the exclusion of everyone else.
I don't post on the Vanguard forums but I've lurked there a lot and read many of the endless debates about this stuff. The people who are selfishly trying to reserve all the "good stuff" for raiders just absolutely refuse to acknowledge that difficulty doesn't have to be based on how many people you can drag along with you. Hell, I'm no genius but even I can think of ways to make single group content and single group quests just as time consuming and challenging as any raid. Probably even more so because each persons actions will matter so much more in a single group than they do in a 70 man raid.
Firstly, there is no right or wrong way to discuss a topic. A discussion
is merely the exchange of opinions between two or more parties (and it
some rare cases, one party with two or more personas), which is what's
going on here. Secondly, rather than being insulting (although you did
at least go about it in a mature manner), it would've been much
less....confrontational to simply ask what my views of casual and
dedicated gamers were.
In any case, putting that behind me, let me start by first pointing out
that I, personally, avoid using the terms "carebear" and "hardcore".
Carebear because it implies a level of wimpiness or babyishness, which
is not always (though definately in some instances) the case, and
hardcore because it's a word usually associated with the "l33tist
powerlevel and pwn joo" crowd who want nothing more than to raid or PvP,
both of which are awesome aspects of a game if implemented correctly,
but only a fraction of what there is to be done.
Dedicated gamers, seen through my eyes, are the boys and girls, men and
women who value a high level of depth and challenge above all. These are
the people who are looking for a game world in which they can spend (and
these numbers are just an example, nothing's etched in stone or
anything) 6 months to a year or more exploring, adventuring, making
their own mistakes that really hinder your progress, and learning from
them, experiencing the game world in full, and yes, actually having to
'work' in order to get ahead. I often see people complain, "I play a
game to have fun, not to work", however to many of us, we take enjoyment
in working to achieve something. It gives a real sense of pride and
accomplishment once that work pays off, even if it is only in a virtual
world.
The casual gamer on the other hand, in my opinion, is twofold. Often
it's the person wanting just a mild diversion from real life from time
to time, or the gamer who's not fully into the mmorpg scene but does
enjoy playing every once in a while, and decides to fire up their PC to
slay a few critters before finding something else to do. Other times it
could be the person whom would like to play longer, but just doesnt have
the time due to other obligations such as (but not limited to) work or
family. Whatever the reason, these gamers require a lower level of
difficulty in order to achieve a sense of advancement since they have
fewer hours to play than the more dedicated gamer. They also may not
have the time to spend waiting to find a group, hence the higher
desirability for solo hunting.
In any case, I consider myself a dedicated gamer, with no game currently
to dedicate my time to. There is definately a market for both crowds,
however I'm of the opinion that making a single game to suit both is
utterly impossible, as the things that appeal to one group are the exact
things the other doesnt want. I dont want people to think I'm against
casual gamers, but I do think we need more "dedicated gamer friendly"
titles out there. Truth of the matter is, these are simply more trouble
for developers to make and as such, they make more casual-friendly games
becaues they can get the same revenue, with less effort. In my original
post I wasn't tring to blame casual gamers for this, I was just merely
pointing out how game designers today, as opposed to yesteryear, seem to
be all about the almighty dollar (or yen, or pound, or what have you)
rather than about trying to make the best product they can now, and as
casual gamers are easier to please, it's a bit distressing to see that
few people even try to capture the dedicated market anymore.
"Carebear" != "Casual"
Kill-whore != "Dedicated"
"Carebear" games dwindle and flop, eh? I'll keep that in mind as I look at the soaring figures for FFXI, which has no real PvP at all. And, of course, FFXI is well known as a game for "casual" gamers.
Chris Mattern
One of these things is not like the other!
Um....I'm sorry but just because the absolute best of the best items
come from raid creatures doesnt mean the game will revolve around it.
I've never been big into raiding, I've done it a few times and enjoyed
it, but I was never a dedicated raider in any mmorpg I've ever played,
however I dont see the problem with getting exceptional equipment from
raid monsters.
If a creature exists that no group of even the strongest adventurers can
take down, if a beast so powerful that it takes 20 or more of the best
trained fighters and mages in the lands to defeat, why shouldnt it hold
an amazing treasure worth so many people dieing for? Thats not to say
you wont be able to get anywhere without raiding. Think of it in the
following terms.....
High level + no raid = good equipment, or great equipment at the cost of
lots of money
High level + raid = great equipment at the risk of dieing and losing
something in the process, yet having a fun experience in the process and
feeling good about having killed the beast to get your gear
You put forth an effort, you get rewarded for it, bottom line.
Regardless of if that effort is spent risking your neck, or farming
goods to sell in order to make the money to buy what someone else risked
their neck to get. Why shouldn't someone be rewarded for their hard
work? For that matter, why should someone else get the same reward for
doing less? I dont think I'll ever understand why some people dont agree
with the concept of risk = reward. It's one of the most basic ideals of
society, both in a game and IRL.
Also in addition (pardon for not just editing my last post, but the post
editor doesnt like Firefox, and mmorpg.com seems to have the hiccups
today) being a good follower is just as important as being a good
leader, and it doesnt mean you cant think for youself. While at work,
you have to do as your boss says or you lose your job, in the military
you have to do as your commanding officer says or you get a courtmarshal
(sp?) for insubordination, in everyday life, you have to obey common
laws or you get thrown in jail where you become some guy's new
"girlfriend" weather you want to or not.
Being a functioning part of any group means you have to abide by rules
and follow the game plan. It doesnt mean you're a robot being remotely
controled by someone else, it means you're a breathing, functioning,
important part of a greater whole. Even if you're a part of that small
6-person group you mentioned, if you run off without your team and screw
things up for everyone, you can bet they wont accept your presence for
long.
I have my own opinions about dedicated and casual gamers. But I would like to see something first, I think a players prefered style of play mirrors the first games that the player played and enjoyed.
So if you would, post your responses and see the simularities
Favorite game/s (any kind PnP included) include genre: PowerStone action/adventure, SoulCalibur fighting, MGS series stealth-action/adventure
First MMO that you really enjoyed: City of Heroes
MMO market title: casual
think of it like some kind of unofficial research
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
If all else in life fails you, buy a vowel.
"Wrong" and "undesirable" are two different things. Even insults, as
you mentioned, can be desirable in some discussions. It all depends on
the topic and manner of discussion. As for being off subject, if you
go off subject you're not discussing a topic "wrong" you've merely
begun discussing a different topic. Not everything in this world is
black and white. When you stop and open your eyes, you realize the
world is made up of a multitude of hues.
As for your textbooks and teachers, a formal debate is not the same as
an ordinary discussion. We have no time limits or rebuttles here,
which is good because I'm sure I spelled that wrong. Formal debate is
accepted as a legal form of competition and thus of course has it's
rules and regulations, but it's not to be confused with posts on a
message board.
In any case, this could go on and on for some time, so lets just agree to
disagree and be done with it.
And I'll never understand why some people think that the only way there can be risk involved in content is if you have 50+ friends go along with you.
And I'll never understand why some people think that doing something for themselves or with only a small group of people means that they are "doing less" than if they were an anonymous face in a crowd who, in all probability, could just stand there doing nothing and no one would notice and they would get the same reward. In fact, when I was finally reaching my breaking point with EQ raiding I actually tested that hypothesis and went through an entire raid without ever turning on auto-attack or casting a spell (paladin character). No one ever knew the difference. I wouldn't normally do something like that but I was feeling so burnt out and jaded about the whole experience that, before I quit the guild, I wanted to see if it would even make a difference if I just stood there and didn't contribute...it didn't make any difference.
Exactly. That's exactly my point. If I put forth effort I should get rewarded for it. Whether the effort is me following orders in a raid or me adventuring with five other people. If I pour my blood, sweat, and tears into the game I shouldn't be denied advancement simply because I don't like hanging out in huge crowds.
Ok, let's just look at a specific game...Everquest. What exactly was the "something" that you risked losing during a raid in EQ? Your self respect? No..strike that. That's just me being bitter. But seriously, what did you risk losing?
Dying meant nothing in an EQ raiding guild. Or very little at any rate. You had your guild clerics to give you the best rez in the game. And you were guaranteed to get that best rez if you were in a raid. When I was doing group/solo content in EQ there were a few times I didn't get a rez at all after dying and a lot of times when I got a rez but it wasn't the best rez. So, in point of fact, the risk of losing "something" was much greater when doing single group content or while soloing than it was while raiding.
And other than losing experience what else could you possibly lose? Nothing. Except maybe your body and all of the equipment on it. But there was absolutely no chance of that happening in an EQ raid. Even if you died in a really nasty spot you had your entire guild to break back in if necessary or, more likely, you would simply have one of the guild necros summon your corpse.
When adventuring solo and group I never failed to recover my body (except in the very early days) but there were a couple of times when I almost didn't get it back. One time it took many days (I don't remember exactly how long, it was years ago) to recover my body and when I finally did get it I looted it with only a few hours remaining before it poofed.
When I was in the raiding guild I never, not even once, had any real difficulty recovering my body.
I dont think I'll ever understand why some people dont agree with the concept of risk = reward. And I don't think raiders do understand the concept of risk versus reward. There is no real risk involved in raiding. The only thing you stand to lose in a failed raid is time. And small group content could be designed to risk just as much wasted time as a raid.
For example: Let's say a there was a quest that a group of five people could take together. Let's say that it's designed to take roughly 50 hours of play time to complete. Now, let's also say that if any one member of the group dies even once before the quest is completed, they lose all the progress they have made up to that point and have to start over from scratch. If any of them die before the quest is finished they lose everything and all the time they have spent on it is wasted.
Now tell me why they would be risking anything less than if they were in a 50 man raid that takes 5 hours to complete. And explain to me why they would be working any less hard for their reward.
I mean you no offence whatsoever in saying this, so please try not to
get upset by it, but I see situations such as this as a clear sign of
jealousy. Not you directly, but in general many of those who give the
same argument. You see someone who has nice equipment, and they obtained
it through an activity that you personally do not enjoy, hence you
wonder why they have those things and you dont, since you see their
practice as loathesome. Well this is a major problem with many mmorpg's
that has little to do with the game itself. Everyone is capable of
raiding, (and dont tell me it's impossible without being a part of a
raiding guild because I've done it) raiding is how the better gear is
earned. If you make a concious choice not to raid, you know that the
consequence is having to buy that same gear that, mind you, is not a
necessity for advancing, but makes it a tad easier and has a sort of
trophy-like value, or settle with lesser quality items that arent as
flashy, but still get the job done. By the same respect, if you dont
like crafting, and conciously coose not to, you yourself are the only
one to blame for not having the income crafting can generate. Besides,
raid-quality gear is not absolutely necissary to advance or to enjoy a
game. I almost never raid, and the few times I have I never got anything
terribly useful, but I still got by just fine, so can everyone else.
Personally, when I played EQ, I was a poor schmuck in a small guild who
could barely afford mediocre equipment, and I got by, I enjoyed myself
plenty. I saw the big raiders and their fancy equipment, I drooled over
it, I especially wanted a droggie really bad, but I knew what they had
to go through to get it. I never felt as though I deserved to have those
things, because I didnt undergo the trials, or save the money, to have
them. People need to make the best of what they've got in a game and
stop concentrating so much on what others have. It's a dark part of
human nature to see other people with nicer things than yourself, and
wish ill upon them out of spite. It's the same as if you're given the
opportunity to go to college, but decide against it because you dont
like the idea of it, then you wonder why your friends who went have
great jobs and you're stuck mopping floors for a living. And yes, even
that student who doesnt study, and barely passes gets a degree and can
land a halfway decent job from it.
It basically boils down to weather or not you want to do what's needed
to get that uber gear, which by the way in many cases doesnt always have
to include raiding as I've mentioned before, often it's just a matter of
paying someone who does raid. If you dont like to raid thats fine and
dandy, but that doesnt mean the experience should be cheapened for those
who do. I really think it's unfair to take away from others who want to
experience content that you dont.
Would you fault a small group of similar level to you for obtaining
better items than you can get by yourself? If the answer is no, then why
is raiding any different? If the answer is yes, why do you think that
you alone should be better than say 5 people working together for a
common goal?
And giving class about the art of talking and arguing, while making sure to insult everyone, no matter if they argue nicely or not, is what you call better?
LOL at you! If anyone apparently don't have any concept of how to discuss a topic properly it is YOU! You completely derailed the topic.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
No.
I play to make FUN.
And raiding is NOT the same game as I play.
Ask me for solo or group EFFORTS. Dont change the gameplay, the game and the rules and make it raiding.
We cant agree. I make MORE efforts then 90% of Afterlife, understand the game better then 90% of their crew, yet, I was never rewarded anywhere close...because I was always solo or grouped.
I wont waste my time in a RAIDING game, I play to group & solo, if the game dont have a hierarchy based only on grouping and solo, it is not worth my time.
You might as well just give the best stuff to everyone who vote for Bush or Win at Pac Man, I couldn't care less, I would just not be any part of such a game that is not centered on grouping & solo.
PS: On a side note, do you place someone like me as a casual or as a hardcore? I dont raid. I play more and better then 90% of the crew of any Uberguild, I solo stuff that can summon and kill me in 1 tick, dont think many in those guilds did such feats (I didnt cheat or abuse any rule). Ask me to AE hunt, to solo stuff who kill in 1 tick, ask me to do ANYTHING...as long as it is in a group or solo(PvE). Zzzz to the raiding thinking, if folks enjoy it, so good for them, not for me. The best person in solo need to have earn everything solo...if they earn stuff outside of solo, they are not worthy. The best person in groups needs to have earn everything in groups, those who earn stuff solo or raiding are unworthy of been uber in groups.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren