Hope its free of gimmicks.

delete5230

I like the "all natural" as oppose to dynamic shock and awe world.  I don't need developer stunts to have fun. I think a true artist can design an mmorpg to have natural AI using modern technology.  Most modern games feel more tricks = more fun. 

 

Some would call this traditional, I call it good design and am a believer that even a younger generation would applicate it just the same.  From what I've seen, it's what I want… Art

 

Pantheon, Saga of Lucimia....Artistic  

Ashes of Creation..... Gimmick

Scot

Lets wait and see, we don't need to pay yet and we can't play yet, enjoy other games until then.

Wizardry

Well i have not been seeing the "more tricks" whatsoever,not sure why you think that.

What i have been seeing is a trend to VERY shallow game designs.Then what VERY little they add outside that is usually just an idea that can support a cash shop.
What mmo's lack and in a big way is immersion and to accomplish that you don't really need a whole lot but a few more gimmicks would make it even better ,if done correctly.

Atlas is more immersive than ANY game Brad has ever made,they didn't go all in on gimmicks or money spent,so it really makes me wonder where all the other developers have been SLEEPING.

I will say this,sidetracking paragraphs of game design,Brad's past and i played all those EQ and VG games is they NEVER looked to address anything from the past version.It simply looked like Brad and team had no idea how to advance the genre and then Brad just decided with VG to cash in on it himself.Yes we saw a glimpse,Brad trying to increase the viewing range "great",added trees falling when cut..ok fair enough "immersion" and then the whatchama callit Personality minigame.

However there are some areas of CORE basic mmo/rpg design that developers are ignoring and instead want to give us SINGLE player game designs with almost no immersion.IMO it is real easy to figure out,the Wow template/EQ template is just super easy to build and they can often find employees that already know how to build that type of game.

Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

Wizardry

If anyone wants to tell me what this game is likely to do better than Atlas,i am listening.I would bet the ONLY areas it can surpass is linear/hand holding/gaited and typical dungeon with a BOSS at the end of the tunnel design.
I know 99.9% Pantheon will likely LACK gimmicks,it will not achieve much in form of immersion,so if anything ,Pantheon will NEED more gimmicks.

Margaretaville

Wizardry said:

"…..Me and my gut thinks...….."

lol.

delete5230

Wizardry said:

Well i have not been seeing the "more tricks" whatsoever,not sure why you think that.

What i have been seeing is a trend to VERY shallow game designs.Then what VERY little they add outside that is usually just an idea that can support a cash shop.
What mmo's lack and in a big way is immersion and to accomplish that you don't really need a whole lot but a few more gimmicks would make it even better ,if done correctly.

Atlas is more immersive than ANY game Brad has ever made,they didn't go all in on gimmicks or money spent,so it really makes me wonder where all the other developers have been SLEEPING.

I will say this,sidetracking paragraphs of game design,Brad's past and i played all those EQ and VG games is they NEVER looked to address anything from the past version.It simply looked like Brad and team had no idea how to advance the genre and then Brad just decided with VG to cash in on it himself.Yes we saw a glimpse,Brad trying to increase the viewing range "great",added trees falling when cut..ok fair enough "immersion" and then the whatchama callit Personality minigame.

However there are some areas of CORE basic mmo/rpg design that developers are ignoring and instead want to give us SINGLE player game designs with almost no immersion.IMO it is real easy to figure out,the Wow template/EQ template is just super easy to build and they can often find employees that already know how to build that type of game.

Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

Lets pretend you own about 10 acers of land in the beautiful country side. It's the same land you always owned.  But you decide to do something a little different, by cutting down trees slightly off in the woods and make a small grove complete with tiki torches and a small fire place. You invite some key friends over with a few cases of beer. It's the same friends you always knew but it's the first time they've been over.  All evening into the night you have interesting conversations, husbands hugging their wife's, all-in-all a nice memorable magical night.

 

People don't like my analogies, they can't seem to catch the similarities… But this is what I want in an mmorpg. 

 

A nice even adventure with possibility of danger if you search it out…. All done with modern technology, and that doesn't have to include graphics. 

Kyleran

delete5230 said:

Wizardry said:

Well i have not been seeing the "more tricks" whatsoever,not sure why you think that.

What i have been seeing is a trend to VERY shallow game designs.Then what VERY little they add outside that is usually just an idea that can support a cash shop.
What mmo's lack and in a big way is immersion and to accomplish that you don't really need a whole lot but a few more gimmicks would make it even better ,if done correctly.

Atlas is more immersive than ANY game Brad has ever made,they didn't go all in on gimmicks or money spent,so it really makes me wonder where all the other developers have been SLEEPING.

I will say this,sidetracking paragraphs of game design,Brad's past and i played all those EQ and VG games is they NEVER looked to address anything from the past version.It simply looked like Brad and team had no idea how to advance the genre and then Brad just decided with VG to cash in on it himself.Yes we saw a glimpse,Brad trying to increase the viewing range "great",added trees falling when cut..ok fair enough "immersion" and then the whatchama callit Personality minigame.

However there are some areas of CORE basic mmo/rpg design that developers are ignoring and instead want to give us SINGLE player game designs with almost no immersion.IMO it is real easy to figure out,the Wow template/EQ template is just super easy to build and they can often find employees that already know how to build that type of game.

Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

Lets pretend you own about 10 acers of land in the beautiful country side. It's the same land you always owned.  But you decide to do something a little different, by cutting down trees slightly off in the woods and make a small grove complete with tiki torches and a small fire place. You invite some key friends over with a few cases of beer. It's the same friends you always knew but it's the first time they've been over.  All evening into the night you have interesting conversations, husbands hugging their wife's, all-in-all a nice memorable magical night.

 

People don't like my analogies, they can't seem to catch the similarities… But this is what I want in an mmorpg. 

 

A nice even adventure with possibility of danger if you search it out…. All done with modern technology, and that doesn't have to include graphics. 

I think you are looking for a good summer camp, not a MMORPG.

Mendel

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

svann

If you mean like rift's rifts then yea I agree that made the world shallow.

Scot

svann said:

If you mean like rift's rifts then yea I agree that made the world shallow.

Content introduced for casuals always does that.

Scot

DMKano said:

Mendel said:

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

It is very much vanilla EQ1+

Vanguard was the game where they really tried to make something unique that was a spiritual successor to EQ1 - but Pantheon they are making something a lot closer to vanilla EQ1

So for anyone looking for innovation and a bunch of new ideas that would push the MMO boundry  - this is not the game you are looking for.

 

I think you may be right about Pantheon, but can you tell us the names of some MMOs that are brimming with innovation and pushing the boundaries. I am not seeing that right now.

Amathe

delete5230 said:

People don't like my analogies, they can't seem to catch the similarities… 

 

Yeah, it's us.

"Hey, man, you don't talk to the Colonel. You listen to him. The man's enlarged my mind. He's a poet warrior in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he'll... uh... well, you'll say "hello" to him, right? And he'll just walk right by you. He won't even notice you. And suddenly he'll grab you, and he'll throw you in a corner, and he'll say, "Do you know that 'if' is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you"... I mean I'm... no, I can't... I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's... he's a great man! I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas..."

- Apocalypse Now.

Kyleran

Scot said:

DMKano said:

Mendel said:

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

It is very much vanilla EQ1+

Vanguard was the game where they really tried to make something unique that was a spiritual successor to EQ1 - but Pantheon they are making something a lot closer to vanilla EQ1

So for anyone looking for innovation and a bunch of new ideas that would push the MMO boundry  - this is not the game you are looking for.

 

I think you may be right about Pantheon, but can you tell us the names of some MMOs that are brimming with innovation and pushing the boundaries. I am not seeing that right now.

Well, in the indie space I recall:

Ashes the MMORPG - besides the marketable (?) BR "testing tool?

OK, they also have their node system which appears to be pretty innovative,  though we've not been shown it in action yet.

Crowfall - Persistent on one hand, with player characters existing in their own right, living in special worlds, while all gameplay occurs in time constrained campaigns with varying conditions. 

This btw seems very much like POE and its "leagues" without the restart feature, but it wouldn't surprise me to see CF add similar at some point.

CU - all of the "fun" of DAOC's RVR gameplay without the messy and time wasting PVE leveling beforehand.  

Perhaps it's more like Planetside on steroids?

COE - C'mon now, they are promising players the sun, moon and stars, served with champagne, but delivered on a beer budget, how can you not be excited?

Can't forget about Star Citizen, not sure about the game but raising over $200M plus in totally free money (with no end in sight) is probably the innovation of the century, even if no one else can replicate it.

Mendel

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

DMKano said:

Mendel said:

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

It is very much vanilla EQ1+

Vanguard was the game where they really tried to make something unique that was a spiritual successor to EQ1 - but Pantheon they are making something a lot closer to vanilla EQ1

So for anyone looking for innovation and a bunch of new ideas that would push the MMO boundry  - this is not the game you are looking for.

 

I think you may be right about Pantheon, but can you tell us the names of some MMOs that are brimming with innovation and pushing the boundaries. I am not seeing that right now.

Well, in the indie space I recall:

Ashes the MMORPG - besides the marketable (?) BR "testing tool?

OK, they also have their node system which appears to be pretty innovative,  though we've not been shown it in action yet.

Crowfall - Persistent on one hand, with player characters existing in their own right, living in special worlds, while all gameplay occurs in time constrained campaigns with varying conditions. 

This btw seems very much like POE and its "leagues" without the restart feature, but it wouldn't surprise me to see CF add similar at some point.

CU - all of the "fun" of DAOC's RVR gameplay without the messy and time wasting PVE leveling beforehand.  

Perhaps it's more like Planetside on steroids?

COE - C'mon now, they are promising players the sun, moon and stars, served with champagne, but delivered on a beer budget, how can you not be excited?

Can't forget about Star Citizen, not sure about the game but raising over $200M plus in totally free money (with no end in sight) is probably the innovation of the century, even if no one else can replicate it.

The common denominator is that none of them can actually demonstrate a complete game session.  The promises may be different, but there's no solid game play to test any promises against.  Ideas are cheap; implementation is expensive and may not mesh with the ideas.

goboygo

Wizardry said:

"What i have been seeing is a trend to VERY shallow game designs.Then what VERY little they add outside that is usually just an idea that can support a cash shop."

This is pretty much core game design these days.

Scot

Mendel said:

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

DMKano said:

Mendel said:

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

It is very much vanilla EQ1+

Vanguard was the game where they really tried to make something unique that was a spiritual successor to EQ1 - but Pantheon they are making something a lot closer to vanilla EQ1

So for anyone looking for innovation and a bunch of new ideas that would push the MMO boundry  - this is not the game you are looking for.

 

I think you may be right about Pantheon, but can you tell us the names of some MMOs that are brimming with innovation and pushing the boundaries. I am not seeing that right now.

Well, in the indie space I recall:

Ashes the MMORPG - besides the marketable (?) BR "testing tool?

OK, they also have their node system which appears to be pretty innovative,  though we've not been shown it in action yet.

Crowfall - Persistent on one hand, with player characters existing in their own right, living in special worlds, while all gameplay occurs in time constrained campaigns with varying conditions. 

This btw seems very much like POE and its "leagues" without the restart feature, but it wouldn't surprise me to see CF add similar at some point.

CU - all of the "fun" of DAOC's RVR gameplay without the messy and time wasting PVE leveling beforehand.  

Perhaps it's more like Planetside on steroids?

COE - C'mon now, they are promising players the sun, moon and stars, served with champagne, but delivered on a beer budget, how can you not be excited?

Can't forget about Star Citizen, not sure about the game but raising over $200M plus in totally free money (with no end in sight) is probably the innovation of the century, even if no one else can replicate it.

The common denominator is that none of them can actually demonstrate a complete game session.  The promises may be different, but there's no solid game play to test any promises against.  Ideas are cheap; implementation is expensive and may not mesh with the ideas.

I think Kyleran made a nod to this, what I was getting at is none of them are out. Any gaming genre is brimming full of ideas, are they getting onto paper and out the door? SotA had some interesting ideas but I am not certain they were implemented that well which is the other half of the equation. I remember thinking it was interesting that you would go to a zone phase which had the most people you had friended in it, but could you prioritise friends or guildmembers? As it panned out that did not work that well from what I hear. 

QuarterStack

Wizardry said:

Well i have not been seeing the "more tricks" whatsoever,not sure why you think that.

What i have been seeing is a trend to VERY shallow game designs.Then what VERY little they add outside that is usually just an idea that can support a cash shop.
What mmo's lack and in a big way is immersion and to accomplish that you don't really need a whole lot but a few more gimmicks would make it even better ,if done correctly.

Atlas is more immersive than ANY game Brad has ever made,they didn't go all in on gimmicks or money spent,so it really makes me wonder where all the other developers have been SLEEPING.

I will say this,sidetracking paragraphs of game design,Brad's past and i played all those EQ and VG games is they NEVER looked to address anything from the past version.It simply looked like Brad and team had no idea how to advance the genre and then Brad just decided with VG to cash in on it himself.Yes we saw a glimpse,Brad trying to increase the viewing range "great",added trees falling when cut..ok fair enough "immersion" and then the whatchama callit Personality minigame.

However there are some areas of CORE basic mmo/rpg design that developers are ignoring and instead want to give us SINGLE player game designs with almost no immersion.IMO it is real easy to figure out,the Wow template/EQ template is just super easy to build and they can often find employees that already know how to build that type of game.

Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

Your ignorance of the subject matter is showing again, @Wizardry.

It has been known all along, since the beginning, that Pantheon is being created to scratch that itch for people who enjoyed EQ and VG and similar types of experiences. This is not news, except to anyone who doesn't bother to do any actual research beyond their own assumptions, but feels qualified to comment on it anyway. People like yourself, for example.

Brad and co. have been very clear about their goals for Pantheon. About the playstyle. About the world. About the content. It's been covered at length in interviews, articles, blogs, forum posts, etc. They've demonstrated some in their live streams. It's all out there.

They've made it quite clear that they are catering to a specific demographic who want exactly the kind of game they're making. Likewise, it's being supported and backed by people who want exactly that kind of game. Complaining about how "they're not pushing the genre forward" (your own definition at least) is missing the point entirely. It's just you projecting your ignorance (as usual) and then whining that it isn't what you want (as usual).

You are literally complaining about a game being designed exactly as it's meant to be for a specific type of player who wants that kind of experience. It's like claiming  motorcycles are badly designed because they have 2 wheels and no side windows, and lamenting how the industry "hasn't pushed the motorcycle design forward". All the while, bikers who actually know the subject are wondering if you're actually being serious.

For just one example... That you imply Pantheon will be "single player", because "it's what Brad and the industry has done before" is plain, dead, 100% wrong. One of the core tenets about Pantheon is that it will be highly group centric. This has been emphasized and demonstrated numerous times now. You literally have to have done zero investigation into the game to not know this.

Serious question... Who/What do you really write these posts for, Wizardry? Are you actually trying to engage in informed discussion with others?  Or do you just love to "hear yourself" talk? Are these forums just your personal sounding board to vent your frustrations? A text version of ranting to yourself while driving? You certainly don't do it to push the discussion forward, with how little you often know of the subject.

asteldiancaliskan

Mendel said:

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

I would agree Pantheon is not looking to produce w G at you are hoping. He optimistically is hoping he can bring the genre back to basics and hopes it is successful enough for future mmos to be designed based on the older philosophies rather that continuing the current trend. If he succeeds you would likely find what you are looking for further down the line, if he doesn't then I expect mmos to continue as they have for the last decade

Sovrath

asteldiancaliskan said:

Mendel said:

Wizardry said:

<snip, for brevity only>
Me and my gut thinks Brad cannot evolve beyond what he already understands and that is his EQ way of thinking.For some a reskinned EQ is good enough,not for me,i EXPECTED this genre to advance a LOT sooner and a LOT better and it has instead gone downhill.

I had hopes that Brad could do something outside of what his previous games reflect.  If it's out there, I've not seen anything that Brad is attempting to stretch his personal boundaries.  It looks like an upgraded version of EQ1, just more of the same.  I hesitate to call that evolutionary.  I really had hopes that VR would bring something out of the box to the table.

Maybe the next game, but more realistically, I might have to wait for the game after that before the genre will start to scratch territory that I call 'new'.

I would agree Pantheon is not looking to produce w G at you are hoping. He optimistically is hoping he can bring the genre back to basics and hopes it is successful enough for future mmos to be designed based on the older philosophies rather that continuing the current trend. If he succeeds you would likely find what you are looking for further down the line, if he doesn't then I expect mmos to continue as they have for the last decade

I think you are completely correct with the exception of  how mmo's will continue. My bet is that after the current large mmo's have run their course we probably won't see anymore.

 

At least large scale offers. Players will either have to be content with mini-indy mmo's or just not play them. At least not until technology has advanced enough so that it's easier to create a full fledged mmo that has the gimmick of an actual living world. Or some such thing.

Theocritus

Being a former EQ1 player for several years, i was curious to see what this was going to be like. I've watched a half dozen or so playthroughs on youtube, and to be honest the game doesn't impress me. Like others here have said, it looks like a slightly better (graphically) EQ1. There was a time I think people would have been ok with that, but I think that time may have passed. So many of the games now have much more involved combat that when you watch a game like Pantheon, where the players just stand there and hit a mob for 10 minutes, then frankly its quite boring.

MrMelGibson

Theocritus said:

Being a former EQ1 player for several years, i was curious to see what this was going to be like. I've watched a half dozen or so playthroughs on youtube, and to be honest the game doesn't impress me. Like others here have said, it looks like a slightly better (graphically) EQ1. There was a time I think people would have been ok with that, but I think that time may have passed. So many of the games now have much more involved combat that when you watch a game like Pantheon, where the players just stand there and hit a mob for 10 minutes, then frankly its quite boring.

Agreed. It will have a small niche base. I really don't comprehend how some of the posters on this site think it will be some huge success that necros the mmorpg genre lol. That time has passed and isn't coming back. At least not in till we see something revolutionary like when Mario 64 released bringing platformers from 2D to 3D. Something that will make all past mmos seem like a Ford model T. This game is just a refurbished model T with a CD player.

Amathe

Theocritus said:

 So many of the games now have much more involved combat that when you watch a game like Pantheon, where the players just stand there and hit a mob for 10 minutes, then frankly its quite boring. 

If you were just clubbing a seal during that 10 minutes, it might be boring (and mean).

But you are busier than it looks. You have to watch aggro. You have to help fellow players in various ways and fight. You have special abilities to use. You have to watch the builder/spender status (and keep your abilities bar up). You have to react to what the mob is doing. And so on.

I'll admit that after years of playing other mmos, looking back on it seems a little slow. But that never bothered me before.  Part of the intrigue is the very real possibility of getting killed, unlike so many games today where you pull 10 guys and mow them down like crabgrass. 

MrMelGibson

Amathe said:

Theocritus said:

 So many of the games now have much more involved combat that when you watch a game like Pantheon, where the players just stand there and hit a mob for 10 minutes, then frankly its quite boring. 

If you were just clubbing a seal during that 10 minutes, it might be boring (and mean).

But you are busier than it looks. You have to watch aggro. You have to help fellow players in various ways and fight. You have special abilities to use. You have to watch the builder/spender status (and keep your abilities bar up). You have to react to what the mob is doing. And so on.

I'll admit that after years of playing other mmos, looking back on it seems a little slow. But that never bothered me before.  Part of the intrigue is the very real possibility of getting killed, unlike so many games today where you pull 10 guys and mow them down like crabgrass. 

But couldn't you have that same feeling of danger without the combat being 30 years old? I get your point, but it doesn't change the fact that it still looks super boring.

Amathe

MrMelGibson said:

But couldn't you have that same feeling of danger without the combat being 30 years old? I get your point, but it doesn't change the fact that it still looks super boring.

What you would lose doing that is part of what made games like EQ fun, which was the conversation. Nowadays it's run, run, run, pew, pew pew. People often don't even talk to one another. I have been on entire dungeon runs and raids in WoW without anyone speaking. Just zoom, zoom, zoom. 

Now some folks, perhaps many folks, may like that. But I don't. I miss the old days when I chatted with my group mates as we adventured. Those interactions were some of the best part.

I'm not saying it is impossible to have both. But I see no harm in having ONE game that is not constant run, run, run, pew, pew, pew. 

delete5230

Amathe said:

MrMelGibson said:

But couldn't you have that same feeling of danger without the combat being 30 years old? I get your point, but it doesn't change the fact that it still looks super boring.

What you would lose doing that is part of what made games like EQ fun, which was the conversation. Nowadays it's run, run, run, pew, pew pew. People often don't even talk to one another. I have been on entire dungeon runs and raids in WoW without anyone speaking. Just zoom, zoom, zoom. 

Now some folks, perhaps many folks, may like that. But I don't. I miss the old days when I chatted with my group mates as we adventured. Those interactions were some of the best part.

I'm not saying it is impossible to have both. But I see no harm in having ONE game that is not constant run, run, run, pew, pew, pew. 

Quick question,
Are you moving your lips as your typing run,run,run, pew,pew,pew or zoom,zoom,zoom ?

delete5230

Theocritus said:

Being a former EQ1 player for several years, i was curious to see what this was going to be like. I've watched a half dozen or so playthroughs on youtube, and to be honest the game doesn't impress me. Like others here have said, it looks like a slightly better (graphically) EQ1. There was a time I think people would have been ok with that, but I think that time may have passed. So many of the games now have much more involved combat that when you watch a game like Pantheon, where the players just stand there and hit a mob for 10 minutes, then frankly its quite boring.

Can you watch A FULL VIDEO of someone digging a full garden, doing a crossword puzzle or even something more exciting like playing kickball with their kids ? 

A more modern example, a FULL VIDEO of a 20 year old millennial typing on Facebook for two hours ?

No, because you yourself are not doing it... It's a different kind of fun, yet huge amounts of people STILL find this type of fun extremely enjoyable.  Even a younger generation.



@Theocritus, what your saying is you don't like mmorpg's anymore (real ones).
It also has nothing to do with modern kids, they may or not like them, no different today or yesterday. 

Two years ago when I first met my wifes daughters boy friend, he was glued to his cell phone.  Now he doesn't even pull it out.  



With us that like what Pantheon has to offer are doing is, watching OTHERS PLAYING and putting ourselfs in their shoes..... We then ask ourselfs.... Would we like it too ? 

If we watch a Youtube of digging a garden.  We don't watch it for two hours straight, but a few minuets.... Then say " I think I'll dig a garden".