How do I increase the difficulty?

cmorris975

Hi everyone.

Edited because it was "ranty".

Basically I love the game but find the majority of it to be way too easy.

What do you guys do for a challenge?  Is all of the overland and solo content just very easy?

Is all of the challenge in group dungoens and PvP?

Thanks!


Chris

Phry

Increase the difficulty? you haven't been to Cyrodiil yet. The world itself is based on your current level, at least in the PVE areas.

samvenice

Some hints:

1. Start by soloing all group dungeons (normal - veteran is impossible), minus the ones that have  anti-solo mechanics e.g. with switches that have to be pressed simultaneously by two players
2. Maelstrom Arena veteran <- good luck with that, without proper setup and execution
   
3. Play without champion points on
   
4. World Bosses of vanilla zones some are soloable with minimal effort (the ones without multiple adds/mechanics) and then they ramp up in difficulty as you progress through the maps in the order they were originally designed.
   

The game is very casual friendly, which means that overland content is soloable by everyone - think of "story mode".

In DLC/Chapters Veteran dungeons and Trials the difficulty ramps up wildly.

Trials have different sizes and are not puggable through LFG tool, and for a reason.

Scot

ESO was tougher when it launched, then was made easier for soloing, then again some months later was made easier again. That's what happens when casuals get hold of your game, but I was in two minds about the first stage myself overall I think it was the right move.  After that it was headed in a easymode direction. How far it went along that path I do not know, what I do know is MMOs never get harder.

Kyleran

Scot said:

ESO was tougher when it launched, then was made easier for soloing, then again some months later was made easier again. That's what happens when casuals get hold of your game, but I was in two minds about the first stage myself overall I think it was the right move.  After that it was headed in a easymode direction. How far it went along that path I do not know, what I do know is MMOs never get harder.

Unless you play(ed) EVE....

Over the years the addition of wormhole space, incursions and sleepers increased challenge in PVE significantly.

On the PVP side they made suicide ganking in hi sec easier, which made trying to mine, mission run or even haul goods safely to market much more difficult.

Don't forget the scourge war decs have been to PVE corps in hi sec  but CCP just recently took some actions to tone them down.

Oh yeah, they added special solo challenge missions a few years back, blew up a few ships trying to beat them.

Scorchien

You cant , 90% of the game is soloble and pretty easy now , before the T1 update which scaled everything you were able to go out and find harder content to challenge your self, now other than Vet Trials , most content is very easy ..

  I also really like alot about ESO , the crafting , exploration are top notch Cyrodill can be fun , but overall the T1 update made most of the game just to easy imo

Iselin

Overland and solo quest instance PvE content is extremely easy for anyone who has the hang of how to build your class in the game. But there is harder PvE content as well.

Dolmens (Dark Anchors) are a step up in difficulty unless you happen to be in one of the zones where they're regularly zerged by grinders. They can be soloed as long as you know what you're doing.

Next up would be open world bosses and depending on which zone you're in and which boss or boss pack you're looking at they can be soloed with some effort all the way up to the bosses that only a handful of players could solo (the same people who can also solo veteran 4-man content.)

Then there's MAelstrom Arena which is a unique solo trial/raid in one of the DLC zones -Wrothgar. Even the normal difficulty version will be a challenge for a lot of people and the veteran level difficulty will be a challenge for almost anyone.

Then of course there are also a lot of 4-man dungeons with normal and veteran difficulty as well that vary quite a bit with the newer DLC dungeons being generally the more difficult ones.

And PvP is where PvErs go to die

cmorris975

Great stuff guys, thanks.  That's too bad that this game was made so easy!  It has so much going for it.  Ah well, at least you guys pointed me to some nice challenges.  Sounds like DLC dungeons, soloing normal group dungeons and PVP should get me wrecked quite a bit.  Good!  

The overland content feels like the electronic equivalent of crochet, i.e. something to keep your hands busy while you're paying attention to something else.  Not my idea of a good MMO, but I am happy ESO is doing so well.

Thanks again.

Tokken

play naked?

Theocritus

ESO was just plain bad....Such a disappointment after so many great Elder Scrolls games.

TheDarkrayne

Phry said:

Increase the difficulty? you haven't been to Cyrodiil yet. The world itself is based on your current level, at least in the PVE areas.

Technically, the world is always max level and everyone is upscaled.

Sadly, sad for some people I mean, the game gets easier as you level because of this, if your gear/build is optimized.

SaunZ

the best way too increase difficulty in ESO is to run dungeons and Cryodiil with me.

Sz 

Wizardry

Mar 20th,Atlas reboot,server wipes.
Get a real challenge,real immersion,building,sailing,diving,climbing,surviving.Get a real role playing experience.
Level 50 fighting a level 5 Tiger ,no problem you die,challenge enough for you?
Level 5 player fighting a level 50 Tiger,no problem you win,allows you to be a SMART player instead of gaiting content behind levels or gear.

I can and have died many times as a higher level than the foes.At the same time i have killed many high level foes using a simple bow n arrow you can attain very early in the game.

In Atlas you have to be smart,alert,pay real close attention to everything around you,inside mmorpg's you can see what is coming a mile away.

Asheram

So the key to making ESO more challenging is to play Atlas? 

Palebane

You can reset your abilities differently, like to un-meta builds, reset CP to zero, and/or start naked and use only the gear you pick up along the way. You can use lower level crafted gear. There are many things you can do to tweak the challenge for overland content in this game. It doesn’t really make combat much better imo, just takes longer to kill stuff with some added risk of death against bosses.

CitizenX007

I've never played ESO (the graphics are some of the ugliest I've ever seen in a modern MMO) but if you think the content is too easy just strip off some of your armor and equip a substandard weapon...that should do the trick.

Scot

Tokken said:

play naked?

Well you joke, but one thing I found in MMOs is that you don't need to upgrade your gear. Depends on the MMO and how they do drops, but I used to not bother much with buying/crafting upgrades until I was doing group or PvP content. Saves a huge amount of gold like that.

But I am sure games designers have realised this, and if you want your cash shop to become what is has led to: a game as a service, then you have to address that. I noticed that drops in BDO are pretty rubbish, I think that is the first game I have ever bought gear before the top levels.

Once again the way old MMOs where set up is not conducive to a money raking machine with a cash shop.

cmorris975

Although I appreciate the "gimp your character" replies, any thoughts or insights into the conversation are welcome, it doesn't make sense (to me, at least) to go that route.  The point of any game is to think creatively within a given rule set in order to play well or "win".  If I gimp my character then I feel like I am artificially changing the rule set, if that makes sense.

In other words, the game designer defines a game with a set of rules and then I try to do my best given those conditions and confines.  If the game is inherently too easy or unrewarding, then I would just move on to another game.  Example:  badminton doesn't feel challenging enough so I move on to tennis.

There's a real problem of engagement when a game is too easy.  My mind is just not interested because it doesn't have to be.  I can just press the same three buttons I did ten seconds ago to overcome the next encounter.  Rinse/repeat.  This has the added effect of killing immersion as I don't have to really pay attention as I do this.  My mind drifts to "what do I need to get done today" or thinking about finances, etc..  I'm not "in a threatening dungeon where I better have my wits about me if I expect to survive."

Nothing really carries any "weight" if it is just a matter of mashing the same three buttons over and over again to win.  I'm sure you get what I mean.  I hope the game designers re-think the extremely low difficulty level.  I do understand that it may not be in their best financial interests to do so, however.

You all have pointed me where to go for a challenge.  And that's the good news, that there is one in this game that I am growing to really like.  

I guess I will have to trudge through steam-rolling overland mobs and quests in order to get to the PVP and late game dungeons where the difficulty lies.  It's a good game so I think it could be worth the work.



Chris

Sal1

Tokken said:

play naked? 

Sal1

Tokken said:

play naked?

I was going to say use crappy armor. And play with less powerful equipment but you beat me to it. And I messed up my last post.

Phry

Scot said:

Tokken said:

play naked?

Well you joke, but one thing I found in MMOs is that you don't need to upgrade your gear. Depends on the MMO and how they do drops, but I used to not bother much with buying/crafting upgrades until I was doing group or PvP content. Saves a huge amount of gold like that.

But I am sure games designers have realised this, and if you want your cash shop to become what is has led to: a game as a service, then you have to address that. I noticed that drops in BDO are pretty rubbish, I think that is the first game I have ever bought gear before the top levels.

Once again the way old MMOs where set up is not conducive to a money raking machine with a cash shop.

Its easy enough when you are using your home PC, but it gets more challenging if you are playing in a Net-cafe etc. still each to their own

gervaise1

cmorris975 said:

Great stuff guys, thanks.  That's too bad that this game was made so easy!  It has so much going for it.  Ah well, at least you guys pointed me to some nice challenges.  Sounds like DLC dungeons, soloing normal group dungeons and PVP should get me wrecked quite a bit.  Good!  <snip>

The game wasn't "made easier".

When it launched - in broad terms - to get to level 10 you did the up to level 10 content; then on to the 10-20 content ...... 40-50 content. Then you became a veteran and did the other alliance zones which had been "boosted" in difficulty. Which felt somewhat artificial. And you could either do each alliance in order or (my memory says) mix and match. And after you had done a second alliance it certainly wasn't hard at all. 

And as characters gained in vet levels in became easier and easier. They upped the vet level cap slightly post-launch and added a new area that made it "more difficult" by training multiple mobs on you but fundamentally it was never hard. 

Now some folk did complain that vet levels were "hard" but, imo, the more honest comments were "on rails" and "tedious". 

With One Tamriel they changed the approach. All zones were adjusted to a set "level". Sort of as they were adjusted at launch when you went through them as a vet. And - the big change - was that characters were scaled up to the selected level.

You can still get bored doing ESO quests today. And you can go anywhere so its no longer on rails - which helps. Plus the artificial nature of the "mob boost" has gone.

And devs have worked at adding difficulty through mechanics. Some of the later stuff can be "tricky" - which is not the same as "hard as in almost impossible to do, 1 in a million odds of doing it".

Games are meant to be entertaining. Hitting a monster for 20 minutes or attacking one and being killed by a single blow is not entertaining. The fun lies in the stories, the puzzles. Mmos in general have never been hard. Taken a lot of time - frequently - but not hard. 

And if you want a real challenge ESO also has campaign PvP were you join "your team" and take on other human players. Who will provide a challenge. Think of chess or Go. Both are easy games to play, the challenge depends on who you play against.

cmorris975

gervaise1 said:

cmorris975 said:

Great stuff guys, thanks.  That's too bad that this game was made so easy!  It has so much going for it.  Ah well, at least you guys pointed me to some nice challenges.  Sounds like DLC dungeons, soloing normal group dungeons and PVP should get me wrecked quite a bit.  Good!  <snip>

The game wasn't "made easier".

When it launched - in broad terms - to get to level 10 you did the up to level 10 content; then on to the 10-20 content ...... 40-50 content. Then you became a veteran and did the other alliance zones which had been "boosted" in difficulty. Which felt somewhat artificial. And you could either do each alliance in order or (my memory says) mix and match. And after you had done a second alliance it certainly wasn't hard at all. 

And as characters gained in vet levels in became easier and easier. They upped the vet level cap slightly post-launch and added a new area that made it "more difficult" by training multiple mobs on you but fundamentally it was never hard. 

Now some folk did complain that vet levels were "hard" but, imo, the more honest comments were "on rails" and "tedious". 

With One Tamriel they changed the approach. All zones were adjusted to a set "level". Sort of as they were adjusted at launch when you went through them as a vet. And - the big change - was that characters were scaled up to the selected level.

You can still get bored doing ESO quests today. And you can go anywhere so its no longer on rails - which helps. Plus the artificial nature of the "mob boost" has gone.

And devs have worked at adding difficulty through mechanics. Some of the later stuff can be "tricky" - which is not the same as "hard as in almost impossible to do, 1 in a million odds of doing it".

Games are meant to be entertaining. Hitting a monster for 20 minutes or attacking one and being killed by a single blow is not entertaining. The fun lies in the stories, the puzzles. Mmos in general have never been hard. Taken a lot of time - frequently - but not hard. 

And if you want a real challenge ESO also has campaign PvP were you join "your team" and take on other human players. Who will provide a challenge. Think of chess or Go. Both are easy games to play, the challenge depends on who you play against.

Sorry, but I don't understand your logic.  You said that the game was not "made easier" but then go on to say that all zones were adjusted to a set level whereas before they would get progressively tougher (or for higher leveled characters).  

To me that is the very definition of "made easier".  If things were still like that then all I would have to do in order to find a challenge would be to start early on the next zone in the progression series.  I would not have made this thread in that case.

You are right, games are meant to be entertaining.  Unfortunately for me, being able to steamroll content without thought and just mashing the same three buttons is not entertaining.  I think overcoming challenges is extremely entertaining but those are hard to find here.

I also disagree with your assertions that difficulty has to mean 20 minutes of overcoming a mob's hitpoints.  I'm sure some games are guilty of overusing that mechanic to increase difficulty.  But that is only one way and it is a rather lazy one.  

MMOs have definitely been hard, so I think you are wrong there too.  EVE has been difficult for a long time outside of hi-sec.  Early EQ1 was punishing and intense in the dungeons while also being fairly popular (before WoW).  Add a PvP server on top of that difficulty and you really had to pay attention.  It was great!

I get that some people like easy content.  That's fine and I think you are in the majority as evidenced by how most MMOs play today.  I'd ask you to acknowledge that there are people out there who find it not very fun or stimulating (not "entertaining", to use your word).

It's OK.  I'm glad you are having fun.  As I said before, if that is what the masses want then that's what any sane business would give them.  I've been left out of mainstream MMORPGs since WoW came on the scene though; forced to adapt if I want to have any fun, hence this thread.

I'll try Cyrodill as per you suggestion and thanks for your thoughts.

gunklacker

cmorris975 said:

Hi everyone.

Edited because it was "ranty".

Basically I love the game but find the majority of it to be way too easy.

What do you guys do for a challenge?  Is all of the overland and solo content just very easy?

Is all of the challenge in group dungoens and PvP?

Thanks!


Chris

Ok you told us how LETT you are move on nothing to see here.....

Kajidourden

The main story is fairly easy, yes.  Particularly if you play a heavy armor build.

However, there are far more challenging things to do in the game than the overworld of the vanilla game and main story quests.  

All of the DLC content is a much increased difficulty level, and if you really want to get crazy go into Craglorn and play there, trust me you won't be complaining about it being too easy then.

k61977

Kajidourden said:

The main story is fairly easy, yes.  Particularly if you play a heavy armor build.

However, there are far more challenging things to do in the game than the overworld of the vanilla game and main story quests.  

All of the DLC content is a much increased difficulty level, and if you really want to get crazy go into Craglorn and play there, trust me you won't be complaining about it being too easy then.

Unless something has changed in the last 6 months, took a break, Craglorn is no longer a group only area.  I was able to solo most everything other than some of the things where you actually have to have someone do something while you do it also.  They made it a solo friendly area a year or two ago.