Most mmos have a crafting and gathering. They do it slightly different. Most of the time it's the gameplay surrounding the crafting/gathering that is different, not the crafting and gathering itself. I was thinking maybe its times for crafting and gathering system to evolve, itself, instead of outside influences like the type of pvp flagging in the game. But what's the next step to do this?
When I think of evolution of gameplay, what i mean is how Dynamic Events in GW2 was a evolution of traditional Quest. What's going to be that equivalent for Crafting & Gathering?
Not what Blizzard has done to crafting. WoW crafting needs a complete overhaul and not by the current dev team (who can't develop even outside a wet paper bag it seems).
At one time WoW had a decent but bland and boring crafting system. 3 pieces of gear could be crafted that was raid tier in stats.
They done away with that concept for 3 expansions now, meaning any gear that is decent has to come from doing Raid.io nonsense to even get. Blizzard gated everything to funnel through those MYTHIC and HEROIC raids (to look good on Twitch or MLG [that once didn't have WoW competitions, because game play was so unbalanced. They bought MLG instead, and trying to "sell" it's unbalanaced game play that way]).
The best system I ever saw for crafting didn't come from a MMO. It came from a MUD. That system the best gear was crafted, and each piece took 3hrs to make (one way to keep the botters at bay and not flood the markets. You could sit there for 3hrs and watch the stats go by even). Even better, with guild approval (so the problem children out there couldn't pass obscene junk), you could even name the piece of gear you crafted (and would be known in the game for). So competition there was who could make the best stat gear to sell and be noteworthy for it. People specialized in crafting what gear they liked, and rewarded handsomely for the effort (raiders never make their gear, they buy it routine you see in every MMO). They bring the mats, you talk of your pricing trade. And well known Mastercrafters had the elitist pigs at the 'filthy casual's" shop -- oh, you had your own shop, too -- begging (or bribing) for YOUR gear.
Which MUD? I sometimes poke around at them.
One of the beest MUD crafting systems I experienced was by Dragonrealms.
Where crafting and combat where intertwined, IE: Your ranks in using a Longsword, contributed to how well you could make one, along with half a dozen other skills, there was no "Oh you have Blacksmithing"
It was "You will try to smelt ingot" and a series of skills and stats will determine if you succeed or fail, these stats being, Mechanical Lore, Perception, Appraisal, Str, Con, and total Lore Ranks.
This made crafting and playing an intertwined event with playing the game, in that venture, it made sense that "Combat" classes would craft, and in some cases, even retire into becoming crafters.
But then again, it was also Full Loot, Open World PvP, with Perma Death. So it was not for the weaklings and people needing safe spots.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Crafting needs to be just as engaging as combat. Most games focus on combat as the means for both skill and gear progression, as well as a basis for social interaction. Crafting may have a skill progression, but rarely has a gear progression, and just doesn't have an established basis for social interaction.
If crafting that legendary item that players want (gear progression to be used in that 20 man raid) took the equivalent of that 20 man raid to make (20 players 30-60 mins of interaction, sufficient levels and gear, etc) then crafting would be of equal value to the game as combat... rather than a secondary system (often an afterthought) added to the game.
Or treating crafting for what it was in those days: a career path no different than a soldier; artist; or adventurer.
So people starting will have to make choices of their careers.
BUT, video games unfortunately aren't made like that, because the devs we get to make these games grew up with games that loot just drops and THEY PROFIT from it (remember in EQ and WoW how raid guilds sell their spoils and run folks through for plat/gold?). It also is some "rule" in their bible called "game theory," they worship.
The money is in the next stupid ACTION RPG/MOBA/Shooter hybrid in a clown suit welding a sword made of ham, being sold for 10000000000000000 [name your currency] in a world run with equally STUPID PvPers and Bots as "danger' and "challenge".
That was boring 20 years ago already. But that's what they want our 15-22 year-olds to be ham carvers in clown suits running botware, and making sure they buy the latest cosmetic in $20 lootboxes with 1:100 chances of getting the loot, too.
Examples: Warframe, mining(the original version) & fishing was very refreshing. Eq2 crafting still stand is the best (again the original, before they dumbed it down..see the trend?) - And then build on that concept... To mention a few eq2 things: Subcomponents from other tradeskill categories, quality of components and products that determine final stats, skill based crafting.
Otherwise, much more rare components from the world, drops from rare creatures, raids, quested, etc. Maintenance crafting like repairing, sharpening, adding/tweaking on gear, componentizing(if that is a word). And co-op crafting.. Some kind of timing (skill)game..think like when a Mastersmith and apprentice forging a sword in real life, each has their role to do. Obviously complexity and skill of all the players involved determine the quality of the outcome, enabling making truly rare/expensive stuff for the good and lucky.
That even failed in EQ2. When you had to BRIBE a Mastercrafter to finish your cloak/earring quest line, more so.
Even the group crafting instances failed.
And the main reason is it's a time sink method, like ghost walking after death. To waste your time with no benefits for even losing it. People got online eager to persue what they loved, and hit with quicksand only there to stall their fun.
It's okay to make crafting feel like a feat to be a Mastercrafter (I did like the quests for the cloak and earring, some were funny]), but it isn't when it's just to waste your time for the dev's convenience.
If the player wants to waste his/her time, that's their thing (like I did rolling for perfect stats). But intentional roadblocks by design for little benefit, isn't. That's why the Mastercrafter co-op and group crafting instances failed hard.
Adding a mini game to crafting, or require someone to craft in a dangerous location for certain items.
1. The mini game would be imitating the basic skill for crafting with eye hand coordination 2. The location could be a layer of difficulty on top of that.
So if location was important to crafting it would require more exploration, or group work.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Wrong implementation and wrong feature are two very different things. In this case obviously the cooperative crafting have been implemented in a very wrong way. It will work just fine in a sandbox game.
Let's put it this way: I haven't seen a cooperative crafting feature that had popular appeal (even if it was funny doing it). EQ2 had the "last laugh" in their instances with raiders getting their due. It was funny as all heck, but even that wouldn't keep people doing it.
Raised my alts alone through there, despite being in the largest guild on the server. People would rather craft in the guild hall (or sleep, yes, sleep there); or, their own hall/dojo (housing), when the guild hall became too crowded.
For a change in crafting they should have quests like crafting so many items to sell to other areas of game and even areas at risk. Maybe bidding for crafting jobs or even dealing with an enemy to sell goods. You get so many points on your leveling skills depending who you sell to or the difficulty in the quest challenge. The higher the crafting level the more challenging it will be.
I think instead of crafting and gathering , MMO should focus on economy maintenance .
If i was developer , i will remove all equipment relate crafting . Only crafting should be add in game are consume items like potions , food , charm , magic scrolls .
I think instead of crafting and gathering , MMO should focus on economy maintenance .
If i was developer , i will remove all equipment relate crafting . Only crafting should be add in game are consume items like potions , food , charm , magic scrolls .
I think instead of crafting and gathering , MMO should focus on economy maintenance .
If i was developer , i will remove all equipment relate crafting . Only crafting should be add in game are consume items like potions , food , charm , magic scrolls .
If your equipment is a consumable?
It don't work , because by natural equipment have very long life span compare to something that last for minutes buff or instant consume .
I think instead of crafting and gathering , MMO should focus on economy maintenance .
If i was developer , i will remove all equipment relate crafting . Only crafting should be add in game are consume items like potions , food , charm , magic scrolls .
If your equipment is a consumable?
It don't work , because by natural equipment have very long life span compare to something that last for minutes buff or instant consume .
in order to have an economy then you can't really have none player crafted equipment or goods, of any kind, this was one of the reasons why SWG's crafting far exceeded the limits of most other MMO's in terms of crafting and the 'economy' as absolutely everything in the game had to be made by a player, using resources that could only be obtained by player harvesting/gathering, from food and drink to starships to the packs doctors used to heal or buff other players, the game practically invented the term 'interdependancy'
Comments
Where crafting and combat where intertwined, IE: Your ranks in using a Longsword, contributed to how well you could make one, along with half a dozen other skills, there was no "Oh you have Blacksmithing"
It was "You will try to smelt ingot" and a series of skills and stats will determine if you succeed or fail, these stats being, Mechanical Lore, Perception, Appraisal, Str, Con, and total Lore Ranks.
This made crafting and playing an intertwined event with playing the game, in that venture, it made sense that "Combat" classes would craft, and in some cases, even retire into becoming crafters.
But then again, it was also Full Loot, Open World PvP, with Perma Death. So it was not for the weaklings and people needing safe spots.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Warframe, mining(the original version) & fishing was very refreshing.
Eq2 crafting still stand is the best (again the original, before they dumbed it down..see the trend?) - And then build on that concept... To mention a few eq2 things: Subcomponents from other tradeskill categories, quality of components and products that determine final stats, skill based crafting.
Otherwise, much more rare components from the world, drops from rare creatures, raids, quested, etc. Maintenance crafting like repairing, sharpening, adding/tweaking on gear, componentizing(if that is a word).
And co-op crafting.. Some kind of timing (skill)game..think like when a Mastersmith and apprentice forging a sword in real life, each has their role to do. Obviously complexity and skill of all the players involved determine the quality of the outcome, enabling making truly rare/expensive stuff for the good and lucky.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
1. The mini game would be imitating the basic skill for crafting with eye hand coordination
2. The location could be a layer of difficulty on top of that.
So if location was important to crafting it would require more exploration, or group work.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.