This is a game I will buy and play (and hopefully enjoy). But at this point it is pretty clear it isn't Bloodlines 2. I wish they would have given it a different title, like VtM: Bloodlines - Some Subtitle. That way it is clear it may share the same setting as VtMB and be "inspired" by the same rpg system, but have no relation other than that.
I'm not saying this will be bad (or good). I hope its good. I hope I enjoy it. I just have no hope at all it will give me anything close to the experience of the original Bloodlines.
This is a game I will buy and play (and hopefully enjoy). But at this point it is pretty clear it isn't Bloodlines 2. I wish they would have given it a different title, like VtM: Bloodlines - Some Subtitle. That way it is clear it may share the same setting as VtMB and be "inspired" by the same rpg system, but have no relation other than that.
I'm not saying this will be bad (or good). I hope its good. I hope I enjoy it. I just have no hope at all it will give me anything close to the experience of the original Bloodlines.
How is it not Bloodlines 2? Other than location of course.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
This is a game I will buy and play (and hopefully enjoy). But at this point it is pretty clear it isn't Bloodlines 2. I wish they would have given it a different title, like VtM: Bloodlines - Some Subtitle. That way it is clear it may share the same setting as VtMB and be "inspired" by the same rpg system, but have no relation other than that.
I'm not saying this will be bad (or good). I hope its good. I hope I enjoy it. I just have no hope at all it will give me anything close to the experience of the original Bloodlines.
I think it's really to early to tell what type of game it will be. Need to see the UI, how combat works, and a lot more details on the story.
So far they are checking all the boxes for resent games, season pass offered. Three tier pre-order. Additional clans to be added. Headstart. Did they mention alpha and beta testing yet?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
This is like revealing a M16 for the next Call of Duty.
Or maybe they should make a Minecraft 2 and reveal dirt blocks.
I'll save the suspense for the reveals for the other clans. These all better be in it.
Brujah
Gangrel
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Toreador
Tremere
Ventrue
Captain Obvious reveal much?
They've been announcing clans for weeks, and most of the ones you listed have already been announced.
I have not being paying much attention to this other than the announcement. After reading more about it I won't be paying any attention to it until I see some reviews and gameplay. Not very excited about this and I loved the original.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
This is like revealing a M16 for the next Call of Duty.
Or maybe they should make a Minecraft 2 and reveal dirt blocks.
I'll save the suspense for the reveals for the other clans. These all better be in it.
Brujah
Gangrel
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Toreador
Tremere
Ventrue
Captain Obvious reveal much?
They've been announcing clans for weeks, and most of the ones you listed have already been announced.
I have not being paying much attention to this other than the announcement. After reading more about it I won't be paying any attention to it until I see some reviews and gameplay. Not very excited about this and I loved the original.
A prudent move for every gamer. I love The Masquerade as an IP, but even I will be confirming the quality of the experience before I give over my cash.
This is a game I will buy and play (and hopefully enjoy). But at this point it is pretty clear it isn't Bloodlines 2. I wish they would have given it a different title, like VtM: Bloodlines - Some Subtitle. That way it is clear it may share the same setting as VtMB and be "inspired" by the same rpg system, but have no relation other than that.
I'm not saying this will be bad (or good). I hope its good. I hope I enjoy it. I just have no hope at all it will give me anything close to the experience of the original Bloodlines.
How is it not Bloodlines 2? Other than location of course.
This is a game I will buy and play (and hopefully enjoy). But at this point it is pretty clear it isn't Bloodlines 2. I wish they would have given it a different title, like VtM: Bloodlines - Some Subtitle. That way it is clear it may share the same setting as VtMB and be "inspired" by the same rpg system, but have no relation other than that.
I'm not saying this will be bad (or good). I hope its good. I hope I enjoy it. I just have no hope at all it will give me anything close to the experience of the original Bloodlines.
I think it's really to early to tell what type of game it will be. Need to see the UI, how combat works, and a lot more details on the story.
So far they are checking all the boxes for resent games, season pass offered. Three tier pre-order. Additional clans to be added. Headstart. Did they mention alpha and beta testing yet?
There are combat videos out. I read some developer post things too. From the videos and what I took away from the posts it seems like VtMB was an inspirational source, like the WoD rulebooks. They want to make a Bloodlines game, not Bloodlines 2, in my opinion.
If this is their sincere attempt at a Bloodlines 2, then I think we view Bloodlines 1 very, very differently. The whole point, the reason, of what VtMB was trying to do. I am not talking story-wise, or combat-wise. I am talking mechanic-wise and rpg philosophy/approach-wise.
I didn't really care for VtM: Redemption. I Loved VtM:B, but if it was called Redemption 2 I would have had an issue with it (but still loved it).
Troika was hands-down my favorite game developer. FO 1/2 (non-Troika of course but same main guys), Arcanum, ToEE, Bloodlines are all on my favorite games list and I've put countless hours in each. I think the very core of each is to simulate a p&p rpg experience where you have a blank book your character(s) fill. They simulate story creation. The same approach will be seen in Outer Worlds.
From the videos I saw this game will have better combat than VtMB. But I feel, from what I saw, it is going for story narration with limited, formulaic choices, with an rpg system geared towards console players. Heavy story narration may win acclaim and awards (and probably sales), but that is a completely different philosophy than Troika had. Modern, console rpg systems and very limited formulaic choices may do the same acclaim and awards wise, but is not the Troika philosophy.
They describe some abilities and show some in use in the combat videos. I have seen the character page so I don't have details on the overall rpg system. I would love it if they went super deep (far deeper than VtmB) with the new WoD edition. But that's not what I got from the limited info I do know.
Could I be wrong about everything? Certainly. They could want to make an actual Troika-philosophy accurate VtMB 2. I just don't see it. No more than I saw FO 3 being faithful to the sprit and point of FO 1 and 2.
I could end up loving it. I'm keeping an open mind but I have little hope.
A prudent move for every gamer. I love The Masquerade as an IP, but even I will be confirming the quality of the experience before I give over my cash.
Those articles were a little fluffy but they had some good detail and they sparked some good questions by yourself and some others familiar with the IP. I haven't played the PnP or VtMB so I wouldn't have gotten any of the Thinblood implications and questions brought up.
It's dangerous to put out too much inspirational hype info. I have a vivid imagination and it never ends up how I imagine. It's always smaller than what I thought it would be and that's disappointing. I think it would be better to go in blind and just discover it. That ship has probably sailed.
I think there's a delicate balance to it. Focusing on lore and maybe giving a short overview of typical abilities is (again, I think) a pretty good way to go. Give us the lore and gameplay "flavor" without walking us through all the mechanics we can expect to use in the game. Matching a short gameplay video with the lore videos released in the announcements would make for a pretty good "taste" of what we can expect. I dislike the 15/30/60 minute "gameplay" videos prior to release.
I also look for that kind of balance in reviews, but that's hit or miss. Some folks like to go into too much detail on a particular system (usually when it frustrates them) for my tastes.
It is kind of depressing that there has to be so much reservation these days, though. And I don't think that's just a cynical disposition- take a look at Bioware, Bethesda, as only the two most recent. When previously rock-solid studios start looking like mobile devs who crossed over into the PC platform and are experiencing growing pains... It makes it hard to wanna just trust that something's gonna be fun without researching it to death, even if it's a favorite IP.
I think there is an audience for this kind of game. I'm in it. I just don't think there are very many of us. I'll go with your guess that it will be actiony with simple branching narratives and flavorful but mechanically generic clan traits.
Bloodlines had action combat that was really bad. I think objectively bad. But it was serviceable and was fine because it wasn't about having good combat. The rest of what you said was pretty accurate but not so much perspective as them wanting you to feel like you are the author of a book. You are the storyteller and the game is your medium. Versus most popular games that have a heavy story narrative where you are just a participant in a story as it unfolds.
Of course, this is just guys with limited resources on a limited medium trying to emulate giving you the tools and options for story creation, which will be much more limited than p&p. But its a completely different philosophy and leads to a completely different experience than devs that want you to be a participant in their story rather than the narrator of your own.
Also, the heavy narrative is definitely the more financially rewarding and popular choice. There is a reason FO 1 and 2 and all the Troika games are super cult classics and not super popular mega-hits, and why Troika closed shop after three games.
Will there be a multiplayer mode ? Any information about that ?
Hope not.
I agree, The first game didn't have Multiplayer, why should this one?
The first game, Redemption, had multiplayer and it was a blast. A quasi Neverwinter dungeon master mode.
Yes, bloodlines 2 needs multiplayer. Can you imagine what modding and private online RP servers with some tools for dungeon master would do to the game's longevity?
Ignoring that possibility is a missed opportunity in my opinion.
This is Bloodlines 2, a sequel to Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines, which did NOT have multiplayer. This is not a sequel to Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption, a totally different game which DID have multiplayer.
Calm down your tits.
What I meant is that Redemption had and it was a better experience because of it.
Having co-op or multiplayer would enhance Bloodlines 2, not reduce it. Look what co-op/dungeon master mode made to games such Divinity and Neverwinter Nights.
By that reasoning multiplayer always makes for a better game experience which is not the case, indeed to my thinking the best multiplayer games were those made to be multiplayer, not ones that tried to straddle both gameplay experience horses.
This is like revealing a M16 for the next Call of Duty.
Or maybe they should make a Minecraft 2 and reveal dirt blocks.
I'll save the suspense for the reveals for the other clans. These all better be in it.
Brujah
Gangrel
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Toreador
Tremere
Ventrue
Captain Obvious reveal much?
They've been announcing clans for weeks, and most of the ones you listed have already been announced.
I have not being paying much attention to this other than the announcement. After reading more about it I won't be paying any attention to it until I see some reviews and gameplay. Not very excited about this and I loved the original.
A prudent move for every gamer. I love The Masquerade as an IP, but even I will be confirming the quality of the experience before I give over my cash.
The quality of the experience is severely in question when they can't even meet the standards the original set for including the vampire clans, let alone removing two of them only to offer them as DLC.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
This is like revealing a M16 for the next Call of Duty.
Or maybe they should make a Minecraft 2 and reveal dirt blocks.
I'll save the suspense for the reveals for the other clans. These all better be in it.
Brujah
Gangrel
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Toreador
Tremere
Ventrue
Captain Obvious reveal much?
They've been announcing clans for weeks, and most of the ones you listed have already been announced.
I have not being paying much attention to this other than the announcement. After reading more about it I won't be paying any attention to it until I see some reviews and gameplay. Not very excited about this and I loved the original.
A prudent move for every gamer. I love The Masquerade as an IP, but even I will be confirming the quality of the experience before I give over my cash.
The quality of the experience is severely in question when they can't even meet the standards the original set for including the vampire clans, let alone removing two of them only to offer them as DLC.
Or it is a sign of the times, 'want up to date graphics or what we did last time'? 'Cut some clans etc and we have time to give you that'. That's the story of modern gaming, everything sacrificed to keep up with the graphics in other games developed by companies with ten times the budget. It is a rather odd situation gaming finds itself in.
This is like revealing a M16 for the next Call of Duty.
Or maybe they should make a Minecraft 2 and reveal dirt blocks.
I'll save the suspense for the reveals for the other clans. These all better be in it.
Brujah
Gangrel
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Toreador
Tremere
Ventrue
Captain Obvious reveal much?
They've been announcing clans for weeks, and most of the ones you listed have already been announced.
I have not being paying much attention to this other than the announcement. After reading more about it I won't be paying any attention to it until I see some reviews and gameplay. Not very excited about this and I loved the original.
A prudent move for every gamer. I love The Masquerade as an IP, but even I will be confirming the quality of the experience before I give over my cash.
The quality of the experience is severely in question when they can't even meet the standards the original set for including the vampire clans, let alone removing two of them only to offer them as DLC.
I disagree. If cutting those meant the existing clans get more love and/or the narrative is more engaging for the time spent, it can be a net positive, even if missing Nos is disappointing.
This is going to be up near the top of big time over rated games.I expect heavily marketed and with VERY little competition in the Vampire genre,it will sell no matter how good it is or isn't.
I have no hope at all that this will be any good,i see Indie all over this.
The gaming market is starving for a really good game,bring back the Half Life quality,give me games that look almost too good for 2020,high tech,lots of decisions,no markers or hand holding,give me quality tools so the game play and characters are unique and fun.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Will there be a multiplayer mode ? Any information about that ?
Bump
Really? It's a single player RPG.
If someone came out with a new and interesting solitaire game, there are people who would bitch that it didn't include multiplayer.
Geez I seriously wanted to know. Shit looks awesome, lore heavy. I haven’t played a single player game since oblivion though.
I don’t think it matters how cool it seems it would be near impossible for me to get into. I feel stuck in a small box playing by myself in single player rpgs.
Will there be a multiplayer mode ? Any information about that ?
Hope not.
I agree, The first game didn't have Multiplayer, why should this one?
The first game, Redemption, had multiplayer and it was a blast. A quasi Neverwinter dungeon master mode.
Yes, bloodlines 2 needs multiplayer. Can you imagine what modding and private online RP servers with some tools for dungeon master would do to the game's longevity?
Ignoring that possibility is a missed opportunity in my opinion.
This is Bloodlines 2, a sequel to Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines, which did NOT have multiplayer. This is not a sequel to Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption, a totally different game which DID have multiplayer.
Calm down your tits.
What I meant is that Redemption had and it was a better experience because of it.
Having co-op or multiplayer would enhance Bloodlines 2, not reduce it. Look what co-op/dungeon master mode made to games such Divinity and Neverwinter Nights.
By that reasoning multiplayer always makes for a better game experience which is not the case, indeed to my thinking the best multiplayer games were those made to be multiplayer, not ones that tried to straddle both gameplay experience horses.
You'll still have your single player campaign... Whatefuck is this logic of "less is bettter"?
If you design for the ground up for multiplayer you have a better chance of making a good multiplayer game than if you try to make a game that is good in both arenas. So sometimes less is more.
Have you played AC multiplayer, barely worthwhile? There are a couple of single player games who's name I can't even remember where the multiplayer was quite awful. Far better that time had been put into making the single player game even better.
Not only that, but if a SP game adds multiplayer or co-op it severely effects design (usually to the extreme detriment of the SP game, systems, and mechanics) and pulls resources (money, PPE, etc) which would otherwise go into making the SP game good and worth playing.
Everyone besides people who want co-op or MP would rather have a solid SP game than a watered -down co-op game. I doubt I'd even look at this if it were MP or co-op, because solid MP or co-op games having a quality SP experience with adult-level, non-sophomoric systems and mechanics are the exception and not the rule.
The first game, Redemption, had multiplayer and it was a blast. A quasi Neverwinter dungeon master mode.
Yes, bloodlines 2 needs multiplayer. Can you imagine what modding and private online RP servers with some tools for dungeon master would do to the game's longevity?
Ignoring that possibility is a missed opportunity in my opinion.
Yes, I can imagine. It's terrifying, and gives me nightmares. I recall, unfortunately, the godawful ERP people did in EQ, WoW, etc. I don't even want to think of the kinds of garbage that would seep out like pus from an open wound on a V:tM multiplayer server.
Just as long as they do a good job with combat and story SP or MP makes no difference to me. Usually though the less complicated a game the easier it is to design and implement. TD2 has gotten so complicated that they can't even install working updates. They had to remove the last updates because it caused so many problems. Just give me a solid game experience without unnecessary complications.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
I'm not saying this will be bad (or good). I hope its good. I hope I enjoy it. I just have no hope at all it will give me anything close to the experience of the original Bloodlines.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/So far they are checking all the boxes for resent games, season pass offered. Three tier pre-order. Additional clans to be added. Headstart. Did they mention alpha and beta testing yet?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
There are combat videos out. I read some developer post things too. From the videos and what I took away from the posts it seems like VtMB was an inspirational source, like the WoD rulebooks. They want to make a Bloodlines game, not Bloodlines 2, in my opinion.
If this is their sincere attempt at a Bloodlines 2, then I think we view Bloodlines 1 very, very differently. The whole point, the reason, of what VtMB was trying to do. I am not talking story-wise, or combat-wise. I am talking mechanic-wise and rpg philosophy/approach-wise.
I didn't really care for VtM: Redemption. I Loved VtM:B, but if it was called Redemption 2 I would have had an issue with it (but still loved it).
Troika was hands-down my favorite game developer. FO 1/2 (non-Troika of course but same main guys), Arcanum, ToEE, Bloodlines are all on my favorite games list and I've put countless hours in each. I think the very core of each is to simulate a p&p rpg experience where you have a blank book your character(s) fill. They simulate story creation. The same approach will be seen in Outer Worlds.
From the videos I saw this game will have better combat than VtMB. But I feel, from what I saw, it is going for story narration with limited, formulaic choices, with an rpg system geared towards console players. Heavy story narration may win acclaim and awards (and probably sales), but that is a completely different philosophy than Troika had. Modern, console rpg systems and very limited formulaic choices may do the same acclaim and awards wise, but is not the Troika philosophy.
They describe some abilities and show some in use in the combat videos. I have seen the character page so I don't have details on the overall rpg system. I would love it if they went super deep (far deeper than VtmB) with the new WoD edition. But that's not what I got from the limited info I do know.
Could I be wrong about everything? Certainly. They could want to make an actual Troika-philosophy accurate VtMB 2. I just don't see it. No more than I saw FO 3 being faithful to the sprit and point of FO 1 and 2.
I could end up loving it. I'm keeping an open mind but I have little hope.
I also look for that kind of balance in reviews, but that's hit or miss. Some folks like to go into too much detail on a particular system (usually when it frustrates them) for my tastes.
It is kind of depressing that there has to be so much reservation these days, though. And I don't think that's just a cynical disposition- take a look at Bioware, Bethesda, as only the two most recent. When previously rock-solid studios start looking like mobile devs who crossed over into the PC platform and are experiencing growing pains... It makes it hard to wanna just trust that something's gonna be fun without researching it to death, even if it's a favorite IP.
Of course, this is just guys with limited resources on a limited medium trying to emulate giving you the tools and options for story creation, which will be much more limited than p&p. But its a completely different philosophy and leads to a completely different experience than devs that want you to be a participant in their story rather than the narrator of your own.
Also, the heavy narrative is definitely the more financially rewarding and popular choice. There is a reason FO 1 and 2 and all the Troika games are super cult classics and not super popular mega-hits, and why Troika closed shop after three games.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I have no hope at all that this will be any good,i see Indie all over this.
The gaming market is starving for a really good game,bring back the Half Life quality,give me games that look almost too good for 2020,high tech,lots of decisions,no markers or hand holding,give me quality tools so the game play and characters are unique and fun.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don’t think it matters how cool it seems it would be near impossible for me to get into. I feel stuck in a small box playing by myself in single player rpgs.
i keep following and reading though.
Have you played AC multiplayer, barely worthwhile? There are a couple of single player games who's name I can't even remember where the multiplayer was quite awful. Far better that time had been put into making the single player game even better.
Everyone besides people who want co-op or MP would rather have a solid SP game than a watered -down co-op game. I doubt I'd even look at this if it were MP or co-op, because solid MP or co-op games having a quality SP experience with adult-level, non-sophomoric systems and mechanics are the exception and not the rule.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey