Crowfall – Industry Day - MMORPG.com

SBFord

Crowfall – Industry Day - MMORPG.com

ACE kicks the in-game industry up a gear as Crowfall takes on speed towards launch. Red Thomas dives into the game again to explore recent updates to crafting and what backers might expect in the way of future support for the player-based economy. Red also invents the new term “tactical economy.”

Read the full story here

blamo2000

Crowfall is a game I used to be interested in. I would have bought it and played but for two things.

1) Every single time I tried to find release estimates on it, I had to waste significant amounts of time to find nothing. Over time the annoyance of this adds up to resentment, anger, and dislike.

2) WoW classic will be the next game I play and I know I like it so it is a no brainer, no risk guaranteed thing. When I do get bored of it or want to try something new either Ship of Heroes or City of Titan should be out, and when I get done with one of those the other will be out, and when done with that it will be back to classic or something else that is an mmorpg.

This last year or two has been a dead time for me and really was the perfect time for anything interesting off the beaten path to come out. I think a lot of devs are going to kick themselves for not releasing anything when mmorpg players had absolutely nothing and were willing to try interesting non-traditional mmos with rpg elements out of desperation for anything.

alkarionlog

heh bias notice, don't worry everything I read here is full of bias, most awesome thing are told here are meh

plus the last shenanigans they was trying to pull really make me less interested in the game,since they sure love to tell its a good game, but there is nothing about it

black9ice

Sometime, the end of last year I tried it again. All I have seen is poorly put together 'modules', it just does not feel like a game. I felt as if you are logging into a tech demo at best. Then there was another thing I noticed right away, at least for me, The whole vessel thing, etc... I never really felt any attachment at all to my character in game. It feels pretty soulless.

Siysrril

Interest on this game has been lost

koldmiser

Now that I can play City of Heroes again I have no interest. This has been in development far too long.

FlyByKnight

Hey guys, KIA makes the best cars... did I mention I really like KIAs?

NOTICE OF BIAS: I am an SEC accredited investor and have invested in KIA. Writing this absolves the bias from my earlier statements.

JamesGoblin

I hope these pics of refineries are from an upcoming update, we had lots of fillers recently. Did you talk with them about (at least rough estimates of) when the first caravans will hit the test servers?

Wizardry

Pretending to be a rpg when it is not,pretending to be more than just a simple seasons pvp game when it is nothing more ,is just a mess of a game design.

If your going to use rpg elements,then be a rpg,or if your simply going to be a pvp game,why all the rpg elements and world,why not just do it the best way and be an arena shooter?
i have often asked my self why ...why why,it is never clear but to me it is rather clear,all these decisions were done because they believed they could make more money this way.
Wiping out work,the world is NOT good decision making.Having players put in an effort to wipe away their effort is not good decision making.Trying to create a balanced pvp design around rpg elements is IMPOSSIBLE.

So then some added fluff,building/plots,this will NOT be nearly as good as some survival games.
So after all is said and done what is this game or is it trying to be good at?Pretty much good at nothing,but ends up being an unbalanced pvp game.

blamo2000

I don't see how investing in a game you are interested in rules out writing articles or reviewing it as long as you clearly state you are an investor, as the author did.

For the people who think this rules out any opinions from being valid - does kickstarting a game rule it out? If so at what amount of funding? Fig is an actual traditional type investment with a return, would that rule someone out?

Quizzical

black9ice said:

Sometime, the end of last year I tried it again. All I have seen is poorly put together 'modules', it just does not feel like a game. I felt as if you are logging into a tech demo at best. Then there was another thing I noticed right away, at least for me, The whole vessel thing, etc... I never really felt any attachment at all to my character in game. It feels pretty soulless.

So you're saying that it's in pre-alpha?

Come on. When they openly say that it's nowhere near ready to launch yet, you can't expect it to be a complete, polished game. If you're not interested in very early access, then don't play it yet. Problem solved.

MadFrenchie

Wizardry said:

Pretending to be a rpg when it is not,pretending to be more than just a simple seasons pvp game when it is nothing more ,is just a mess of a game design.

If your going to use rpg elements,then be a rpg,or if your simply going to be a pvp game,why all the rpg elements and world,why not just do it the best way and be an arena shooter?
i have often asked my self why ...why why,it is never clear but to me it is rather clear,all these decisions were done because they believed they could make more money this way.
Wiping out work,the world is NOT good decision making.Having players put in an effort to wipe away their effort is not good decision making.Trying to create a balanced pvp design around rpg elements is IMPOSSIBLE.

So then some added fluff,building/plots,this will NOT be nearly as good as some survival games.
So after all is said and done what is this game or is it trying to be good at?Pretty much good at nothing,but ends up being an unbalanced pvp game.

I do so love that you have 15k posts and you're just still truckin' along, doing your thing man.  Mad respect.

blamo2000

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

Sometime, the end of last year I tried it again. All I have seen is poorly put together 'modules', it just does not feel like a game. I felt as if you are logging into a tech demo at best. Then there was another thing I noticed right away, at least for me, The whole vessel thing, etc... I never really felt any attachment at all to my character in game. It feels pretty soulless.

So you're saying that it's in pre-alpha?

Come on. When they openly say that it's nowhere near ready to launch yet, you can't expect it to be a complete, polished game. If you're not interested in very early access, then don't play it yet. Problem solved.

That's not what they said.  It was supposed to go into the soft release in 2018 (late fall I was told).  Since then I've checked every month or so, and the soft release was just a patch or two away.  No solid info, just hints and cryptic statements meant to get people to buy.  I've never had a harder time trying to find solid information or even big clues.  I've never had to read through so many forum posts trying to find a hint of something solid, and it was always almost.  

Quizzical

blamo2000 said:

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

Sometime, the end of last year I tried it again. All I have seen is poorly put together 'modules', it just does not feel like a game. I felt as if you are logging into a tech demo at best. Then there was another thing I noticed right away, at least for me, The whole vessel thing, etc... I never really felt any attachment at all to my character in game. It feels pretty soulless.

So you're saying that it's in pre-alpha?

Come on. When they openly say that it's nowhere near ready to launch yet, you can't expect it to be a complete, polished game. If you're not interested in very early access, then don't play it yet. Problem solved.

That's not what they said.  It was supposed to go into the soft release in 2018 (late fall I was told).  Since then I've checked every month or so, and the soft release was just a patch or two away.  No solid info, just hints and cryptic statements meant to get people to buy.  I've never had a harder time trying to find solid information or even big clues.  I've never had to read through so many forum posts trying to find a hint of something solid, and it was always almost.  

If you're not interested in the game until it launches, then just ignore it until they announce that it is launched.  Apart from major life events that lead you to reconsider gaming entirely, it's not like you'd be hugely interested if it launches at one point in time but not interested at all if it launches a year later.

BruceYee

blamo2000 said:

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

Sometime, the end of last year I tried it again. All I have seen is poorly put together 'modules', it just does not feel like a game. I felt as if you are logging into a tech demo at best. Then there was another thing I noticed right away, at least for me, The whole vessel thing, etc... I never really felt any attachment at all to my character in game. It feels pretty soulless.

So you're saying that it's in pre-alpha?



Come on. When they openly say that it's nowhere near ready to launch yet, you can't expect it to be a complete, polished game. If you're not interested in very early access, then don't play it yet. Problem solved.

That's not what they said.  It was supposed to go into the soft release in 2018 (late fall I was told).  Since then I've checked every month or so, and the soft release was just a patch or two away.  No solid info, just hints and cryptic statements meant to get people to buy.  I've never had a harder time trying to find solid information or even big clues.  I've never had to read through so many forum posts trying to find a hint of something solid, and it was always almost.  

That transparency crowdfunded titles were supposed to provide ended up being just a sales gimmick. CU provides information in detail about what's being worked on while this game puts out like you said "info to get you to buy". At this point they seem to be doing what Albion did and hold the game in extended development just to collect money from curious people.

JamesGoblin

blamo2000 said:

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

Sometime, the end of last year I tried it again. All I have seen is poorly put together 'modules', it just does not feel like a game. I felt as if you are logging into a tech demo at best. Then there was another thing I noticed right away, at least for me, The whole vessel thing, etc... I never really felt any attachment at all to my character in game. It feels pretty soulless.

So you're saying that it's in pre-alpha?

Come on. When they openly say that it's nowhere near ready to launch yet, you can't expect it to be a complete, polished game. If you're not interested in very early access, then don't play it yet. Problem solved.

That's not what they said.  It was supposed to go into the soft release in 2018 (late fall I was told).  Since then I've checked every month or so, and the soft release was just a patch or two away.  No solid info, just hints and cryptic statements meant to get people to buy.  I've never had a harder time trying to find solid information or even big clues.  I've never had to read through so many forum posts trying to find a hint of something solid, and it was always almost.  

You didn't find it simply because it doesn't exist; I agree that we should ideally have solid dates and companies respecting them but it never works that way in reality,well maybe it does in ice cream industry. On the other hand soft launching after "a patch or two" while still in pre-alpha(!), they never said that; I get what you're saying but this is over-underlining (hmm...is this even a word?).

This is how it happened: during Kickstarter (March 2015) the projected soft-launch date was December 2016; It's possible that Kickstarter regulations required(?) them to give a specific month and so they did. Then at some point mid-2016 they pushed it back to 2017, then in second quarter of 2017 it got pushed back to 2018 etc. The most recent official info is about alpha being a patch or two away, which seems much more realistic.

If you want to know what is likely going to happen: alpha at some point this year, beta in 2020-21(I'd rather bet on '21) and after that - God only knows. Too much unknown about the future of their funding,what features they'll push post-launch, how successful will open beta be, the state of the engine etc.

Mensur

Crowfall there is a hidden meaning in the name of the game. Its a hint of what's to come.

Kyleran

Mensur said:

Crowfall there is a hidden meaning in the name of the game. Its a hint of what's to come.

I call first dibs on the name CrowFail ...

Might as well also reserve Camelot Unreleased,  Ashes of Cremation, (along with Ashes of Bad Royal) Cons of Elyria, Pannedtheon, Pew World, Scam Citizen, and Dead Universe.

lahnmir

Kyleran said:

Mensur said:

Crowfall there is a hidden meaning in the name of the game. Its a hint of what's to come.

I call first dibs on the name CrowFail ...

Might as well also reserve Camelot Unreleased,  Ashes of Cremation, (along with Ashes of Bad Royal) Cons of Elyria, Pannedtheon, Pew World, Scam Citizen, and Dead Universe.

You sir, are a winner.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

blamo2000

JamesGoblin said:

blamo2000 said:

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

You didn't find it simply because it doesn't exist; I agree that we should ideally have solid dates and companies respecting them but it never works that way in reality,well maybe it does in ice cream industry. 

I don't want solid dates.  I just want easily to find information on when I should check back.  If that changes, I don't care. Just let me know.  Work on your game until its done.  Just don't waste my time, which seems to be their whole shtick.  

And they most certainly put out information regarding a soft release.  This is factual, not disputable.  If it wasn't for that post, I would have never bothered checking, and checking, and rechecking, and rechecking, and trying to find what the fuck is going on release-wise.  

The post was on this site, either earlish 2018 or possibly 2017.  

Kajidourden

blamo2000 said:

JamesGoblin said:

blamo2000 said:

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

You didn't find it simply because it doesn't exist; I agree that we should ideally have solid dates and companies respecting them but it never works that way in reality,well maybe it does in ice cream industry. 

I don't want solid dates.  I just want easily to find information on when I should check back.  If that changes, I don't care. Just let me know.  Work on your game until its done.  Just don't waste my time, which seems to be their whole shtick.  

And they most certainly put out information regarding a soft release.  This is factual, not disputable.  If it wasn't for that post, I would have never bothered checking, and checking, and rechecking, and rechecking, and trying to find what the fuck is going on release-wise.  

The post was on this site, either earlish 2018 or possibly 2017.  

So your boycott of the game is based on the fact that you can't find a release date that isn't real anyway?  Ok then.

blamo2000

Kajidourden said:

blamo2000 said:

JamesGoblin said:

blamo2000 said:

Quizzical said:

black9ice said:

You didn't find it simply because it doesn't exist; I agree that we should ideally have solid dates and companies respecting them but it never works that way in reality,well maybe it does in ice cream industry. 

I don't want solid dates.  I just want easily to find information on when I should check back.  If that changes, I don't care. Just let me know.  Work on your game until its done.  Just don't waste my time, which seems to be their whole shtick.  

And they most certainly put out information regarding a soft release.  This is factual, not disputable.  If it wasn't for that post, I would have never bothered checking, and checking, and rechecking, and rechecking, and trying to find what the fuck is going on release-wise.  

The post was on this site, either earlish 2018 or possibly 2017.  

So your boycott of the game is based on the fact that you can't find a release date that isn't real anyway?  Ok then.

If you say so, tiger.  Your comprehension is amazing.  I am not boycotting anything.  My time being wasted causes anger, resentment, and dislike.  

If they had soft release up to maybe 8/15 I would try it.  But when wow classic comes out I will not need it, and then I have Ship of Heroes and City of Titan to look forward to.  In the future, if I hit a dead spot like I have in the last couple years, and this game is still around I may give it a try.  

And I honestly don't know how to get people like you to understand simple, easy to understand information.  They had a post a year or two ago about soft release before the end of the year.  Without them saying that, I would have never looked at the game or cared.  The lack of follow up is annoying.  Them saying, "just kidding don't bother checking back until spring of 2021" would have made all this a non-issue for me.  Communication.  I am a fan of it.  I am not a fan of being toyed with and dicked around with.

If you come out with soft release info a year or two ago, and as a dev team you still have no fucking idea of even a ballpark timeframe of when your game is coming out, nor do you give a fuck enough to communicate with potential players, and the biggest names in your community constantly say in a patch or two, you are incompetent fucking morons with no clue.  Why would anyone want to support or play a game made by incompetent fucking idiots that can't even guess at what quarter and what year there game is coming out after releasing soft release information over a year or two ago?

Red_Thomas

JamesGoblin said:

I hope these pics of refineries are from an upcoming update, we had lots of fillers recently. Did you talk with them about (at least rough estimates of) when the first caravans will hit the test servers?

They tend to play the specifics of when things are coming out pretty close to the vest, so I don't have specific dates.   Since refineries and caravans are complimentary systems, I'd expect them out at the same time.  I also know they're specifically working on them right now.   In the past, new systems have rolled out in about 1-2 months after I'd noticed active effort, so think that'd be a good estimate.

Red_Thomas

blamo2000 said:

I don't see how investing in a game you are interested in rules out writing articles or reviewing it as long as you clearly state you are an investor, as the author did.

For the people who think this rules out any opinions from being valid - does kickstarting a game rule it out? If so at what amount of funding? Fig is an actual traditional type investment with a return, would that rule someone out?

It's because I have a financial interest in the game being successful, and the SEC part is sort of a flag for any other potential investors to make it clear what kind of investment I'm talking about.

It wouldn't be ethical to write articles about the game and not disclose the financial interest in it.

w/r to bias, there's no such thing as unbiased reporting in any form because everyone has an opinion.  You just try not to let the opinion color what you put out there.   But since my articles are pretty exclusively about games I like, they're be definition biased.   I just don't write about projects that I think are bad.

Pyuk

I don't get why anyone in game development would ever want to make their own version of Shadowbane. There's a reason it failed way back when, and trying to redo it is mind boggling idiotic, imo. Clunky, gank fest, impossible to balance PvP is not a great bullet point to put on the box of a new game. And this has been in development for almost as long as that other vapor-ware, pyramid scheme, Star Citizen. It's in the same category as Shroud of the Bunghole-star, even though that "shipped." Pyramid scheme of a clunky, outdated and poorly designed game from a crazy has-been, but with koolaid drinking customers who keep throwing money at it in order to keep their master's dream alive. They should change their donation names to Suckers instead of Founders. IMO.

Red_Thomas

blamo2000 said:

That's not what they said.  It was supposed to go into the soft release in 2018 (late fall I was told).  Since then I've checked every month or so, and the soft release was just a patch or two away.  No solid info, just hints and cryptic statements meant to get people to buy.  I've never had a harder time trying to find solid information or even big clues.  I've never had to read through so many forum posts trying to find a hint of something solid, and it was always almost.  

Could you cite that, please?  I've probably missed it, but I don't remember anything about a soft release.  Every conversation I've had with them has been "pre-alpha" and "alpha to start later 2019."   Granted, I think they did originally target late 2018 for alpha, but schedules slip.   You should never take the initial timeline to be gospel.

The better measurement would be to check the list of features they promised and them look at how fast you see them roll out.   You also have to consider the technical challenges and weight that, too.   For instance, the ad-hoc world generation was a new tech.  They were going to need a little extra time to figure that out.   Combat was in the same boat, but because netcode is always a challenge in every game.   Implementing something like War Tribes, though...  That's using existing systems and capabilities, so you'd expect something like that in just one sprint cycle, maybe two.