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Destiny's Sword on Creating a Healthier Gaming Environment - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

imageDestiny's Sword on Creating a Healthier Gaming Environment - MMORPG.com

One of the key hallmarks of Destiny's Sword is its emphasis on creating a gaming experience unlike any other. In a new developer diary, Ken Hall and Ramin Shokrizade sum up a recent presentation they gave during Nordic Game 2019 and how the team is working to create a healthier gaming environment. In the course of some studies, it's been found that the games that create the most positive experience for players are those that foster interdependence and offer a strong sense of community.

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,464
    edited June 2019
    I have concerns about people feeling the need to make gaming "vehicles of positive social change", gaming is entertainment, it should not be a vehicle for personal ideology. However he seems to be talking about reducing anti-social behaviour in games and fostering community which I am all for and the principles of design mentioned do seem to favour that.

    His analysis of "Fun Pain" is also of note, making players suffer who do not use a cash shop is not good gaming ethos.
    JeffSpicolialkarionlogPhaedruslivesblamo2000SabracgunklackerinfomatzPhrybcbully
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol
    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.
    blamo2000AmatheBlacklabelcalibcbully


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • jj7009jj7009 Member UncommonPosts: 223

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.


    What on earth is a self-identified mmo? Also why is this tacticle card game mmo talking about changing the industry. That’s like a like an incel giving dating advice. They haven’t even launched an mmo yet.
    JeffSpicoliblamo2000Blacklabelcali
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.



    yeah because if someone yell i'm a MMO I should belive him without consider anything.


    Scot said:

    I have concerns about people feeling the need to make gaming "vehicles of positive social change", gaming is entertainment, it should not be a vehicle for personal ideology. However he seems to be talking about reducing anti-social behaviour in games and fostering community which I am all for and the principles of design mentioned do seem to favour that.



    His analysis of "Fun Pain" is also of note, making players suffer who do not use a cash shop is not good gaming ethos.



    the good thing is since the game at the very least will be a small niche that will hardly change anything, only thing i'm seeing is annoying mechs and possible abuse of mechs to make things boring and to negate such "new" mechs
    Blacklabelcali
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Asch126Asch126 Member RarePosts: 543

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.



    For real, what the hell is a "self-identified MMO"?
    Blacklabelcali
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Anytime I see game companies talking about the psychology of influencing player thinking and behavior, I get that same chill up my spine as when I read The Island of Doctor Moreau. "Go to the House of Pain!"

    Personally I believe that this particular game would benefit from replacing some of the psychologists (real or imagined) with more graphic artists.
    alkarionloginfomatzMendel

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,963
    Scot said:
    I have concerns about people feeling the need to make gaming "vehicles of positive social change", gaming is entertainment, it should not be a vehicle for personal ideology. However he seems to be talking about reducing anti-social behaviour in games and fostering community which I am all for and the principles of design mentioned do seem to favour that.

    His analysis of "Fun Pain" is also of note, making players suffer who do not use a cash shop is not good gaming ethos.
    I'm going to disagree here.

    Gaming is whatever people want it to be. If some people just want to play tetris all day, essentially "a game" then that's great. If developers wants to make those games then "great!"

    But developers are also creative people and they want to make things that matter to them. So if they want to make games that are more than pastimes then "great" as long as there are people who want to buy them then there is no issue.

    This comes down to not all games are for all people. Whether that's game play or "a message" it's pretty easy to just do one's research and buy according to what wants.


    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


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    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,058
    Amathe said:
    Anytime I see game companies talking about the psychology of influencing player thinking and behavior, I get that same chill up my spine as when I read The Island of Doctor Moreau. "Go to the House of Pain!"

    Personally I believe that this particular game would benefit from replacing some of the psychologists (real or imagined) with more graphic artists.
    I am still waiting on many developers to replace ideas, art and donation options with an actual game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    QuizzicalMendel
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited June 2019
    lahnmir said:
    Amathe said:
    Anytime I see game companies talking about the psychology of influencing player thinking and behavior, I get that same chill up my spine as when I read The Island of Doctor Moreau. "Go to the House of Pain!"

    Personally I believe that this particular game would benefit from replacing some of the psychologists (real or imagined) with more graphic artists.
    I am still waiting on many developers to replace ideas, art and donation options with an actual game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir




    I'm still taking donations for my upcoming title Amathe Goes to Vegas with An Android Vaguely Resembling Kate Upton. So far I am at the concept art stage, consisting mainly of printing out internet pics of Kate and putting them up over my headboard. But once I reach $300 million, whoo doggy! Good times then. So keep the faith.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Asch126 said:

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.



    For real, what the hell is a "self-identified MMO"?
    Everyone around here has their own thoughts about what belongs on this site and are never afraid to voice those opinions, including in threads about Destiny's Sword last week. However, we are operating under the guidance of the developers themselves who call it an MMO, hence "self-identified". 
    AmatheBlacklabelcali[Deleted User]


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    SBFord said:
    Asch126 said:

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.



    For real, what the hell is a "self-identified MMO"?
    Everyone around here has their own thoughts about what belongs on this site and are never afraid to voice those opinions, including in threads about Destiny's Sword last week. However, we are operating under the guidance of the developers themselves who call it an MMO, hence "self-identified". 
    But do you check with every member's feelings before publishing your articles? 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,130
    "In the course of some studies, it's been found that the games that create the most positive experience for players are those that foster interdependence and offer a strong sense of community."

    While I think this game is doing some interesting things (and some ridiculously awful things like card game crap), I dislike this positive feelings bullshit.   

    Getting ganked and then my whole gaming night turning into a butthurt-fueled revenge quest, just stalking someone like a mad man, trying to set up some intricate plan to just kill them once, just once, are the memories I hold most dear.  The arena is interdependent, but I'd hardly call it positive interactions nor positive emotionally.  Nothing has caused me more rage or anger or joy and happiness.  My brother-in-law and I would yell at each other like maniacs over whose fault it was we lost.   

    I don't think interdependency equals positive interaction.  It often doesn't.  Any attempt to manipulate a feelings based outcome is doomed to be gamed and fail.  Positive interactions are subjective by nature.  Shoot for enjoyable systems that are satisfying for most with no way to exploit it, and not subjective feelings based systems.  Set up a system that can cause either extreme on the emotional range spectrum and you have a system worth engaging in.  
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584

    blamo2000 said:

    "In the course of some studies, it's been found that the games that create the most positive experience for players are those that foster interdependence and offer a strong sense of community."

    While I think this game is doing some interesting things (and some ridiculously awful things like card game crap), I dislike this positive feelings bullshit.   

    Getting ganked and then my whole gaming night turning into a butthurt-fueled revenge quest, just stalking someone like a mad man, trying to set up some intricate plan to just kill them once, just once, are the memories I hold most dear.  The arena is interdependent, but I'd hardly call it positive interactions nor positive emotionally.  Nothing has caused me more rage or anger or joy and happiness.  My brother-in-law and I would yell at each other like maniacs over whose fault it was we lost.   

    I don't think interdependency equals positive interaction.  It often doesn't.  Any attempt to manipulate a feelings based outcome is doomed to be gamed and fail.  Positive interactions are subjective by nature.  Shoot for enjoyable systems that are satisfying for most with no way to exploit it, and not subjective feelings based systems.  Set up a system that can cause either extreme on the emotional range spectrum and you have a system worth engaging in.  



    here is the thing you need to have things people would line up to join and work together, building a guild hall when everymember need to send mats, making a siege when every member have a role and they work together, pvp drama works well for this, with non faction, only guilds and guilds alliances works the best, we know what make a goo retention on players, and most of it is not raids or gear grind.

    but we see this "MMO" saying this will retain more people, I don't see it, I see people spending time on they team just to be pissed after sometime when said team member die and to replace him will be a damn chore, its the same with FFA full loot, and perma dead mechs, most people are turned down with it and don't get close

    plus this game looks more like card collection game then a MMO
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • keyboardshinobikeyboardshinobi Member UncommonPosts: 25
    wow a game attempting to force people to be nice to one another online pffft lol this game is going to be a train wreck, btw the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and while this game is filled to the brim with social good intention its going to end up a hellscape of trolls, anger and hatred, just saying this is not a good investment.
    JeffSpicoli
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    "creating a gaming experience unlike any other. "

    How many times have we heard this??
  • jj7009jj7009 Member UncommonPosts: 223
    edited June 2019

    SBFord said:


    Asch126 said:



    SBFord said:






    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol




    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.






    For real, what the hell is a "self-identified MMO"?


    Everyone around here has their own thoughts about what belongs on this site and are never afraid to voice those opinions, including in threads about Destiny's Sword last week. However, we are operating under the guidance of the developers themselves who call it an MMO, hence "self-identified". 



    I'm an mmo Called John, i plan to launch in December this year. I'll have great group content and tons of minigames that are independent of pve content but rely on pve/group content for progression. My monetization will consist of players sending me money when my hunger/hydration meter runs low. I'm open to interviews but it has to be full audio and we have to whisper because im shy. But not shy enough to spare you a 2 hour autobiography of my life that has no bearing on the game. I expect an email correspondence within the next hour or so, thank you.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,464
    edited June 2019
    SBFord said:
    Asch126 said:

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.



    For real, what the hell is a "self-identified MMO"?
    Everyone around here has their own thoughts about what belongs on this site and are never afraid to voice those opinions, including in threads about Destiny's Sword last week. However, we are operating under the guidance of the developers themselves who call it an MMO, hence "self-identified". 
    But do you check with every member's feelings before publishing your articles? 
    I don't think they need to, I don't agree its a MMO, we posters never always agree. To me its a game, that's all this site needs to cover it, they even do gaming tech.

    We know they get it wrong, they know they have it right. I can live with that, lets move on to what the games like. :)

    That bit about "Fun Pain", using a stick on players who don't pay. Now I am all for new content and so on being paid for, but putting mechanisms in that push players into thinking they must pay is just not what gaming is about. Or should I say was not what gaming was about?
    SBFord[Deleted User]
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,507
    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol
    At least they have something to say, rather than "please come play generic knock-off game 9283."
    bcbullyScot
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,507
    While I agree with much of their diagnosis of what has gone wrong in monetizing games, they don't really seem to have much of a solution.

    They propose promoting interdependence by making it so that each player can only do a small fraction of what the game offers.  That means that players run out of content in a small fraction of the time it would take if one player could do everything.  That's why MMORPGs have largely moved away from interdependence.

    They want to minimize anonymity.  If that means that someone who gets annoyed at you can come after you in real life, that's pretty much the opposite of good community.  They could make reputation matter by having you tend to interact with the same players repeatedly, but that seems to mostly happen in games with very small playerbases.

    They propose in several points to reward players for interacting with each other positively.  The problem is how to measure that without making it easily gamed such that the optimal strategy is something other than click quickly and be done with it.
    ScotMendel
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited June 2019
    Scot said:
    I have concerns about people feeling the need to make gaming "vehicles of positive social change", gaming is entertainment, it should not be a vehicle for personal ideology. However he seems to be talking about reducing anti-social behaviour in games and fostering community which I am all for and the principles of design mentioned do seem to favour that.

    His analysis of "Fun Pain" is also of note, making players suffer who do not use a cash shop is not good gaming ethos.
    I remember "fun pain" as part of a larger dialogue I'd had in the past on this subject. Was a subject that started cropping up in the early 2000s or so with the proliferation of F2P and some of the monetisation models that were more exploitative. It's good to see the subject is being revisited and given more critical analysis follwoing some of the recent political backlash that gaming has been getting.
    Scot
  • WarzodWarzod Member RarePosts: 509
    Most of this thread proves exactly what this game is trying to combat.
    bcbully
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Warzod said:
    Most of this thread proves exactly what this game is trying to combat.
    Which is a disturbing concept in itself, if that is truly the case then i think avoiding this game like the plague would be a very good idea.  :o
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited June 2019
    Awesome. Let’s see if the can do it. You have my ear.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Scot said:
    SBFord said:
    Asch126 said:

    SBFord said:



    This game is sure getting alot of coverage here lol


    Why shouldn't it? It's a self-identified MMO, one of very few in development so fits right in.



    For real, what the hell is a "self-identified MMO"?
    Everyone around here has their own thoughts about what belongs on this site and are never afraid to voice those opinions, including in threads about Destiny's Sword last week. However, we are operating under the guidance of the developers themselves who call it an MMO, hence "self-identified". 
    But do you check with every member's feelings before publishing your articles? 
    I don't think they need to, I don't agree its a MMO, we posters never always agree. To me its a game, that's all this site needs to cover it, they even do gaming tech.

    We know they get it wrong, they know they have it right. I can live with that, lets move on to what the games like. :)

    That bit about "Fun Pain", using a stick on players who don't pay. Now I am all for new content and so on being paid for, but putting mechanisms in that push players into thinking they must pay is just not what gaming is about. Or should I say was not what gaming was about?
    For what it's worth, my comment wasn't aimed at you. I also don't agree with the staff's (new) definition of MMO. And we can criticize that till the end of time. But to be pissed about what games they cover and how frequent they cover them is just silly. 

    In my humble opinion, developing video games has always been about making money, like any other profession, craft, or industry. Of course different people and different companies do have their own methods and ways of doing so. But that doesn't change the story. 

    Remember Arcades? That's how video games got mainstreamed in the first place, and talk putting mechanisms to push players into thinking they must pay. And that was in the 70s. 

    Yes there was a time when we paid the box price and that was it. But there was no internet back then, or it was less common. So today's methods of monetization were just impossible before. Internet opened up new ways of charging the consumers, not corporate greed or the change of video games values or anything. If internet was just as common as it is today upon video games' inception, I bet we would have seen lootboxes and DLCs right from the get go. 
    Scot[Deleted User]
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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