The Eorzea Prospect: A Look At The Community - MMORPG.com

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The Eorzea Prospect: A Look At The Community - MMORPG.com

I’ve played many MMORPG’s in my life, I’d venture to say most of them honestly, and I can truly say FFXIV has the best community bar none. But what makes it the best?

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Wizardry

People will think this means everyone on both sides of the fence and of course it does not.I said th esame thing about FFXi and could include FFXIV and the reason why?

Nobody cares about pvp or bragging rights like other games have these speed runs,world firsts to brag about,i hate bragging people.FFXI was a game built around helping people and even the design allows helping outside your group which again other games do not.
So the whole idea of helping and getting along is just a MUCH better environment rather than have arguments over who has the better pvp build,MY GUILD is world first etc etc,i don't like communities such as the WOW's and their clones.
That in no means is a knock on all the people in those other games,of course as witnessed a few times before and recently here,people will think you are insulting ALL of those people.There are good community people and bad in EVERY game and that is fact,i am only saying the scales are "slightly" tipped because of a game design.

Xiaoki

The FF14 community is pretty bad at the high end content. Always has been and it's getting worse. So, if you never do Savage raids then this article is mostly true (except the extreme cherry picking with the anecdotes).

Last week trying to do a Savage raid a healer was yelled at then kicked from the raid because he wasn't doing enough DPS. Yes, a healer was kicked for low DPS.

Unfortunately, this "DPS is the only thing that matters" mentality is becoming more and more pervasive.

KnightFalz

The best, eh? The best you've encountered at any rate. It seemed alright, for the bit I played the game, but I never got to the point where I had to rely on involvement with the community to advance.

Regardless, I recall reading good things about the community and not much bad, so it seems one of the better around.

Dekahn

If you call a good community no one talking in pug grouped dungeons then sure.

Viper482

I would say LOTRO has the absolute best overall community, but the casual community in FFXIV is great though. Most PUG friendly casual queues in the genre imo. Get into extreme queues and all that and it can get nasty. Elitists plague every game somewhere.

Viper482

Dekahn said:

If you call a good community no one talking in pug grouped dungeons then sure.

To the contrary, in the FFXIV duty finder I have found the most absolute patient community in the genre. Can't count how many times people have been supportive after a wipe on easy content due to someone new at tanking or healing. Best community when it comes to casual queueing I have ever seen. Toxicity is extremely rare in my experience.

Krimzin

Honestly, I believe the toxicity from other games is bleeding into FFXIV. FFXIV has become a haven for player from all MMOs and the attitudes are something you can't just leave behind like an old character. We are in fact getting a lot of WoW refuges, I am one myself. Between the toxic community and just same old same old stuff, I just couldn't hang on anymore. FFXIV was a breath of fresh air. Players weren't being assholes in general, they didn't yell at people in pugs and players were just generally helpful. Over the last month, I've been in a couple groups where tank wasn't pulling enough or healer couldn't keep tank healed.. thats when the bitching started. When will people realize, when you are bitching, complaining or just being a douche, its not fun for anyone. Enjoy the game.

agentsi1511

Wizardry said:

People will think this means everyone on both sides of the fence and of course it does not.I said th esame thing about FFXi and could include FFXIV and the reason why?



Nobody cares about pvp or bragging rights like other games have these speed runs,world firsts to brag about,i hate bragging people.FFXI was a game built around helping people and even the design allows helping outside your group which again other games do not.

So the whole idea of helping and getting along is just a MUCH better environment rather than have arguments over who has the better pvp build,MY GUILD is world first etc etc,i don't like communities such as the WOW's and their clones.

That in no means is a knock on all the people in those other games,of course as witnessed a few times before and recently here,people will think you are insulting ALL of those people.There are good community people and bad in EVERY game and that is fact,i am only saying the scales are "slightly" tipped because of a game design.

I'm sorry. But having played and raided at a high lvl in FFXI, it was one of the LEAST friendly MMO's I've ever played. Finding an NA guild was a nightmare. Most high end pug groups were anti-NA because they were all JP players, who just disliked NA players. Finding groups to do your limit breaks took weeks sometimes. Not only that, you had to farm an insane amount of gil to have multiple sets of gear and food, plus travel supplies like oils, etc. Which meant farming low lvl stuff. I remember countless runs of 15-20 mins to get to a camp, then one person leaves without notice and the whole group would disband. While I love the style of that game, it was without a doubt one of the most unfriendly MMOs ever.

No game is perfect. FFXIV is toxic in different ways WoW is not. The only boon to FFXIV, is you actually have to learn the fights for raiding in this game in order to clear it. In WoW, weak auras and ilvl can sometimes carry you to victor.

But don't think elitest don't exist. Try pugging Savage this past week. People are just as cruel to folks who aren't 100% up to speed. One misstep? Berated, then kicked. Not given a chance to learn most of the time.

Warlyx

yeah pugs at HE are a mixed bag ....ppl are cruel sometimes , but thats mmorpg for u , ignore/blacklist and move on

Nhisso13

It amazes me that adults have no reading comprehension skills.
OP didnt say there is literally zero negativity or dbags in the game; just less of them. And he is right.

Krimzin

There is no such thing as a perfect community. FFXIV is just better than most.

blackthornn

Viper482 said:

Dekahn said:

If you call a good community no one talking in pug grouped dungeons then sure.

To the contrary, in the FFXIV duty finder I have found the most absolute patient community in the genre. Can't count how many times people have been supportive after a wipe on easy content due to someone new at tanking or healing. Best community when it comes to casual queueing I have ever seen. Toxicity is extremely rare in my experience.

I've seen tons of "who's the noob in the group who's never done this run before?" Followed by a vote to kick, kicking over someone watching the cutscene for a dungeon, and "learn to play scrub" screaming at newer players. That's pretty much why I quit half way thru heavensward is the community, atleast where I was playing, changed seemingly overnight.

Xiaoki

Krimzin said:

Honestly, I believe the toxicity from other games is bleeding into FFXIV. FFXIV has become a haven for player from all MMOs and the attitudes are something you can't just leave behind like an old character. We are in fact getting a lot of WoW refuges, I am one myself. Between the toxic community and just same old same old stuff, I just couldn't hang on anymore. FFXIV was a breath of fresh air. Players weren't being assholes in general, they didn't yell at people in pugs and players were just generally helpful. Over the last month, I've been in a couple groups where tank wasn't pulling enough or healer couldn't keep tank healed.. thats when the bitching started. When will people realize, when you are bitching, complaining or just being a douche, its not fun for anyone. Enjoy the game.

And you'd be wrong.

I've been playing since ARR launched and this has nothing to do with "refugees" from any other MMO, the FF14 community has always been super elitist.

Any real FF14 player knows why you can no longer skip cut scenes in the MSQ Duty Finder but the white knights just have to come galloping to protect FF14s honor.

Amathe

It's always nice to see some good news. Can use some today.

Xatsh

blackthornn said:

Viper482 said:

Dekahn said:

If you call a good community no one talking in pug grouped dungeons then sure.

To the contrary, in the FFXIV duty finder I have found the most absolute patient community in the genre. Can't count how many times people have been supportive after a wipe on easy content due to someone new at tanking or healing. Best community when it comes to casual queueing I have ever seen. Toxicity is extremely rare in my experience.

I've seen tons of "who's the noob in the group who's never done this run before?" Followed by a vote to kick, kicking over someone watching the cutscene for a dungeon, and "learn to play scrub" screaming at newer players. That's pretty much why I quit half way thru heavensward is the community, atleast where I was playing, changed seemingly overnight.

I have seen this once maby playing since ARR launched so not sure where you seen this much toxicity.

Only time I seen toxicity is when ppl run dungeons with gear 30ish lvls too low... and in that case they sorta deserve it because you cannot do the dungeon. Example: healer going into a 59 dungeon with a lvl 29 weapon and lvl 15 through 40 gear. This is happening more and more now... and those ppl should be yelled at it is common sense.

Actually kicking someone in this fashion is against tos and can get you a suspension in ffxiv. If the dungeon is unclearable you are required to vote abandon or leave and take penalty.

momintim

blackthornn said:

Viper482 said:

Dekahn said:

If you call a good community no one talking in pug grouped dungeons then sure.

To the contrary, in the FFXIV duty finder I have found the most absolute patient community in the genre. Can't count how many times people have been supportive after a wipe on easy content due to someone new at tanking or healing. Best community when it comes to casual queueing I have ever seen. Toxicity is extremely rare in my experience.

I've seen tons of "who's the noob in the group who's never done this run before?" Followed by a vote to kick, kicking over someone watching the cutscene for a dungeon, and "learn to play scrub" screaming at newer players. That's pretty much why I quit half way thru heavensward is the community, atleast where I was playing, changed seemingly overnight.

Not once have I every seen someone get kicked for being new and i have been playing since 2.0, mmost if not all times people dont mind a new person because this means its a bonus for people who have already done it.

Xiaoki

momintim said:

blackthornn said:

Viper482 said:

Dekahn said:

If you call a good community no one talking in pug grouped dungeons then sure.

To the contrary, in the FFXIV duty finder I have found the most absolute patient community in the genre. Can't count how many times people have been supportive after a wipe on easy content due to someone new at tanking or healing. Best community when it comes to casual queueing I have ever seen. Toxicity is extremely rare in my experience.

I've seen tons of "who's the noob in the group who's never done this run before?" Followed by a vote to kick, kicking over someone watching the cutscene for a dungeon, and "learn to play scrub" screaming at newer players. That's pretty much why I quit half way thru heavensward is the community, atleast where I was playing, changed seemingly overnight.

Not once have I every seen someone get kicked for being new and i have been playing since 2.0, mmost if not all times people dont mind a new person because this means its a bonus for people who have already done it.

Saw plenty of people get kicked doing Coils of Bahamut. Doing that kind of content while its new will show what the community is really like.

Like @blackthornn I quit during HW because of the community as well, but came back right before Stormblood but didnt do as much of the high end content.

Would like to see some of the people here that think the community is the bestest ever to go into an Eden Savage group and say "Ive never done this and dont know the fight, will you teach me?" and see how well it goes.

vandal5627

Every community is the same, there's bad apples and there's good apples, not sure what you guys are arguing about.

Xatsh

Who would judge a game's community on upper tier raid content.

Savage Content (and coil - they are the same tier) is not designed for pug groups, it is why everyone does it in statics for the most part.

Of course people are going to be less welcoming if you join an upper tier group without knowing even the basic mechanics. At that level you are expected to do your homework and learn about the raid before going into it if guides are available. Unless you join a pure learning from scratch group, which outside day 1 is extremely rare to find.

At that level you are also expected to have a mastery of your class. If you join and are doing 2-3k less dps then your job should be doing or simply do not know how to you use your tool kit for the given job you will be removed simply because the content is not clearable otherwise.

I have kicked over 50 ppl out of my groups for being sub par in savage/coil content... you can tell about 5mins into a run if the person is going to cut it or not just by how they are playing their job, are they making the same mistakes, and their reaction speed to mechanics. Savage content is not designed for learning the basics.

tirwen

Personally, I found a large percentage of the community to be toxic with "git gud" being a favorite response when I'd asked for help on their forums getting past a spot I had difficulty with. When I first played, shortly after ARR was launched, it was an extremely friendly, helpful community, but not anymore. GW2 has a far better community, with people willing to go out of their way to res people without being asked or expecting a tip.

Xasapis

Xatsh said:

Who would judge a game's community on upper tier raid content.

Savage Content (and coil - they are the same tier) is not designed for pug groups, it is why everyone does it in statics for the most part.

Of course people are going to be less welcoming if you join an upper tier group without knowing even the basic mechanics. At that level you are expected to do your homework and learn about the raid before going into it if guides are available. Unless you join a pure learning from scratch group, which outside day 1 is extremely rare to find.

At that level you are also expected to have a mastery of your class. If you join and are doing 2-3k less dps then your job should be doing or simply do not know how to you use your tool kit for the given job you will be removed simply because the content is not clearable otherwise.

I have kicked over 50 ppl out of my groups for being sub par in savage/coil content... you can tell about 5mins into a run if the person is going to cut it or not just by how they are playing their job, are they making the same mistakes, and their reaction speed to mechanics. Savage content is not designed for learning the basics.

I think there is an abyssal gap of self awareness and skill required between the majority that run normal content that needs minimal to little effort and the first step into savage content, even in a training raid.

This lethargic mentality is encouraged by both the community (being way too patient at times) and the company itself (a draconian TOS that punishes anyone reported even for constructive criticism). 

It's really hard for people to get a wake up call that they are not good nor are improving, when pointing that out is a punishable offence.

lahnmir

Xasapis said:

Xatsh said:

Who would judge a game's community on upper tier raid content.

Savage Content (and coil - they are the same tier) is not designed for pug groups, it is why everyone does it in statics for the most part.

Of course people are going to be less welcoming if you join an upper tier group without knowing even the basic mechanics. At that level you are expected to do your homework and learn about the raid before going into it if guides are available. Unless you join a pure learning from scratch group, which outside day 1 is extremely rare to find.

At that level you are also expected to have a mastery of your class. If you join and are doing 2-3k less dps then your job should be doing or simply do not know how to you use your tool kit for the given job you will be removed simply because the content is not clearable otherwise.

I have kicked over 50 ppl out of my groups for being sub par in savage/coil content... you can tell about 5mins into a run if the person is going to cut it or not just by how they are playing their job, are they making the same mistakes, and their reaction speed to mechanics. Savage content is not designed for learning the basics.

I think there is an abyssal gap of self awareness and skill required between the majority that run normal content that needs minimal to little effort and the first step into savage content, even in a training raid.

This lethargic mentality is encouraged by both the community (being way too patient at times) and the company itself (a draconian TOS that punishes anyone reported even for constructive criticism). 

It's really hard for people to get a wake up call that they are not good nor are improving, when pointing that out is a punishable offence.

I think the biggest gap is between normal and hard content, there is no gradual increase in skill needed, you go from 10% effort required to 90% in one go. We know that, casuals don’t, there is no ladder to climb, just a cliff to jump of.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Malvodion

Xiaoki said:

The FF14 community is pretty bad at the high end content. Always has been and it's getting worse. So, if you never do Savage raids then this article is mostly true (except the extreme cherry picking with the anecdotes).



Last week trying to do a Savage raid a healer was yelled at then kicked from the raid because he wasn't doing enough DPS. Yes, a healer was kicked for low DPS.



Unfortunately, this "DPS is the only thing that matters" mentality is becoming more and more pervasive.

Healers in FFXIV play a bit differently than how they do in most mmos. You are actually meant to spend equal (if not more) time attacking than healing. Many players that come from say WoW find that hard to understand at first or when getting into harder instances A lot of content is not meant to be beat with only 3 or 6 people attacking (not easily or quickly), all 4/8 players need to contribute.

So yes if a healer isn't attacking in savage raids, be it because they can't deal with multitasking or simply because "its not their role" then yeah they'll get the boot from any group that actually wants to meet the dps checks.

Malvodion

Xasapis said:

I think there is an abyssal gap of self awareness and skill required between the majority that run normal content that needs minimal to little effort and the first step into savage content, even in a training raid.

This lethargic mentality is encouraged by both the community (being way too patient at times) and the company itself (a draconian TOS that punishes anyone reported even for constructive criticism). 

It's really hard for people to get a wake up call that they are not good nor are improving, when pointing that out is a punishable offence.

The TOS thing is a meme, you know? The changes they made to the TOS weren't to make things more strict: those rules were always there, they simply made them more clear and specific so people can't escape bans by using loopholes anymore. You are not going to get banned for giving advice, you will be banned if you act like a twat while doing it tho.

Xasapis

Malvodion said:

...
Healers in FFXIV play a bit differently than how they do in most mmos. You are actually meant to spend equal (if not more) time attacking than healing. Many players that come from say WoW find that hard to understand at first or when getting into harder instances A lot of content is not meant to be beat with only 3 or 6 people attacking (not easily or quickly), all 4/8 players need to contribute.
So yes if a healer isn't attacking in savage raids, be it because they can't deal with multitasking or simply because "its not their role" then yeah they'll get the boot from any group that actually wants to meet the dps checks.

The Savage raids have been specifically made to be beaten without healer damage contribution. Any damage added by the healers is a bonus and makes the fight easier. However, if the raid cannot meet the dps checks, guess whose fault that is.

Malvodion said:

The TOS thing is a meme, you know? The changes they made to the TOS weren't to make things more strict: those rules were always there, they simply made them more clear and specific so people can't escape bans by using loopholes anymore. You are not going to get banned for giving advice, you will be banned if you act like a twat while doing it tho.

I would argue that the exact opposite has happened. The TOS rules became so vague, that any kind of interpretation is valid.
https://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=68216&id=5382&la=1

Take the following for example:

"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:
・Expressions that compel a playing style
・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive

"Harassment" means speech and/or behaviour that inflicts deep emotional distress on another person. It is an extremely serious violation. Where Square Enix determines that harassment has occurred, a penalty equal to or higher than "Temporary Service Account Suspension" may be imposed.
・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person

For example, if you ban somebody from a raid and he claims emotional distress, guess who's going to get in trouble.