Seriously, OP. WoW classic is not a game. It is basically a server type for a game released in 2004. This thread should be locked and deleted. It has no merit at all.
And they call me old and crabby....
Lighten up ..... or just don't reply, we're having fun here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When publishers see how competitive the Live Service market is, and how much of a boon social mechanics are to player retention. Newer live services will be even closer to being an MMO than they are now.
ATM 24% of the mobile casual market have strong guilding mechanics, to help with retention. Often times you'll see mechanics worse than just notifications, sometimes even mechanics like one person spending having guild wide bonuses (buy yourself 20% better drop rates, guild gets +5% and gets to know it's from you). Considering loot boxes were experimented with on mobile first, it's only inevitable that we suffer through it next. (Don't remember the article the stat was from though, it just stuck with me).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Seriously, OP. WoW classic is not a game. It is basically a server type for a game released in 2004. This thread should be locked and deleted. It has no merit at all.
And they call me old and crabby....
Lighten up ..... or just don't reply, we're having fun here.
Interrupting the circle jerk is only for the indie 'low hanging fruit' MMOs eh?
Whatever are you going on about?Another rainy day up there again?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Seriously, OP. WoW classic is not a game. It is basically a server type for a game released in 2004. This thread should be locked and deleted. It has no merit at all.
I can't help but feel there is a surge of alt accounts; that or just random trolls trying to cause a disruption by shit posting and picking fights at random. Yes that includes the person I just quoted. There is no reason to call for the lock of a thread if it is a valid discussion.
To be honest AAA is cheap for an MMORPG. In todays standards 150-300mil is nothing special for a single player game. For example we already had AAAA game (kinda mmo) and that is Destiny. the budget for the game was almost a billion (including all the expansions and destiny2). Destiny with all the expansions and sequel is considered one game. it just that the business strategy was to divide it into expansions and sequels. And as you see that term AAA is not being used that often in singe player games because its nothing special. you can't flex with it anymore. it's like driving 15 year old ferrari. Gaming industry is projected to grow in the next 10 years. so by that time we will see business strategies revolving around AAAA term more often. because that term is still impressive and could potentially intrigue people
The problem is not only the developing budget. You also need to pay for on going development.
If you are spending 150 million on development, chances are you still need to pay 30 million every year for continuing update and maintenance. Probably why many mmorpg in development are shutdown because investor lost faith it can recoup.
Also all those numbers are rumored. Chances are many of those number are not even real, but just made up for hype advertisement.
AAA is not related to budget, its related to quality.
It was a marketing term invented so publishers could go "look at all these other great, A-rated games out there. We love them, but ours is actually better, its AAA".
So, when judging a game, you need to look at the overall quality of it in comparison to the rest of the market. If it's in the top 5%, then you can call it AAA.
Ofc course, you generally need a large budget in order to achieve the highest levels of quality, but its not impossible to achieve them with a more modest budget. Also, simply having a large budget is no guarantee of being AAA. Just look at SWTOR. One of the largest budgets for an MMO ever, yet the overall quality compared to the rest of the market was average. It was a C-rated game at best, definitely not AAA, despite the budget.
As to the OP, yes, ofc course we'll see AAA MMOs in the future, that's not in doubt.
All game genres go through the same cycles. Someone talented invents or reinvents the genre, but often on a modest budget. The big devs then steal their idea and you get a few years of expansion of the genre and loads of love. But the big guys aren't capable of innovation, only of polish, so eventually it stagnates. Then, some talented individual comes along, reinvents it......and the cycle repeats.
We're at the end of the stagnation phase with MMOs, about to enter a reinvention phase. We're waiting on the indie titles to experiment with the genre, then when one of them comes up with something good, you can bet your life the big studios will jump on it, steal it, polish it and then we'll get our AAAs again.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Seriously, OP. WoW classic is not a game. It is basically a server type for a game released in 2004. This thread should be locked and deleted. It has no merit at all.
And they call me old and crabby....
Lighten up ..... or just don't reply, we're having fun here.
No, they call you "old crabby."
Big difference.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
AAA is not related to budget, its related to quality.
It was a marketing term invented so publishers could go "look at all these other great, A-rated games out there. We love them, but ours is actually better, its AAA".
No, it was originally related to budget and used for PR.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't believe WoW Classic will have any real impact on the genre, whatsoever. It'll make ActiBlizz a bit of extra change, but it's not likely to do anything to rally the market, etc.
As for AAA? I really don't even care about that. Currently, I'd really just like to see some(at least one) of those indie MMOs actually launch by the end of 2020.
Money really isn't the major issue we are facing. I grant that you could throw more money at the problem and it might help some, but right now the problem is more about leadership and capability.
In a case like Star Citizen, you have the most ridiculously ever-changing path with CR steering the boat.
Games like CU and Crowfalll: You have a reasonable budget, industry veterans and leaders, and yet they still seem to be going nowhere.
What the genre is missing is publishers and contracts.
Those big publishers and overlords get bashed a lot for rushing studios and sticking their nose in, but we are now seeing what happens when we don't have them in control.
The publishers kept the creatives grounded. With a project of a massive scale like an MMO, having those businessmen hawking over studios kept them on their toes and things moving along.
Seriously, OP. WoW classic is not a game. It is basically a server type for a game released in 2004. This thread should be locked and deleted. It has no merit at all.
And they call me old and crabby....
Lighten up ..... or just don't reply, we're having fun here.
Interrupting the circle jerk is only for the indie 'low hanging fruit' MMOs eh?
Whatever are you going on about?Another rainy day up there again?
Oh please. Just let us know what games we're supposed to slag on and what games we're supposed to cheer for. Is that any clearer? Other than "locked and deleted" point out where he was wrong?
The poster I responded to wasn't slagging on the game itself, rather was calling for the thread to be closed and locked because the OPs premise of WOW being the last AAA game offended him in some manner.
I will rarely agree to calling for a lock on a thread topic, though I will confess it was a bit of a relief when moderators finally closed a few here around violence and gaming.
I'm all for a good slagging on most any game, but shutting down the discussion, never, there's too many dead horses around here I still enjoy beating on.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
AAA is not related to budget, its related to quality.
It was a marketing term invented so publishers could go "look at all these other great, A-rated games out there. We love them, but ours is actually better, its AAA".
So, when judging a game, you need to look at the overall quality of it in comparison to the rest of the market. If it's in the top 5%, then you can call it AAA.
Ofc course, you generally need a large budget in order to achieve the highest levels of quality, but its not impossible to achieve them with a more modest budget. Also, simply having a large budget is no guarantee of being AAA. Just look at SWTOR. One of the largest budgets for an MMO ever, yet the overall quality compared to the rest of the market was average. It was a C-rated game at best, definitely not AAA, despite the budget.
As to the OP, yes, ofc course we'll see AAA MMOs in the future, that's not in doubt.
All game genres go through the same cycles. Someone talented invents or reinvents the genre, but often on a modest budget. The big devs then steal their idea and you get a few years of expansion of the genre and loads of love. But the big guys aren't capable of innovation, only of polish, so eventually it stagnates. Then, some talented individual comes along, reinvents it......and the cycle repeats.
We're at the end of the stagnation phase with MMOs, about to enter a reinvention phase. We're waiting on the indie titles to experiment with the genre, then when one of them comes up with something good, you can bet your life the big studios will jump on it, steal it, polish it and then we'll get our AAAs again.
thats not correct at all.. AAA is only how much money was spent on it
"AAA (pronounced and sometimes written Triple-A) is an informal classification used for video games produced and distributed by a mid-sized or major publisher, typically having higher development and marketing budgets. AAA is analogous to the film industry term "blockbuster".[1]
In the mid 2010s, the term "AAA+" began to be used to describe AAA type games that generated additional revenue over time in a similar fashion to MMOs by using software as a service (SaaS) methods, such as season passes or expansion packs. The similar construction "III" (Triple-I) has also been used to describe indie game companies' works of very high quality."
typically having higher development and marketing budgets....
AAA has always been about how much money was spent on it.
There are none in developement right now and the absoulety massive costs to make one makes me think this might be the last one we see. Anyone think a developer will have the balls to spend $200M on a MMO? (WE will get plenty of Indy MMO's which hopefully will be great)
would you do it? given how so many games fail?
Take a significant amount of your own money and invest in an mmorpg?
I actually wouldn't even if it was someone else's money and they asked me to invest it for them.
Exactly!
So many people complain that companies don't "take chances" aren't brave enough to step up to the plate (so to speak). Well, there are small indy devs who are willing and who would LOVE to have extra money.
If course, then people will say "well they are indy who knows what the quality will be." Ok, fair enough. But then the larger companies who take those chances will want a certain return on their investment or else it's not worth it.
Never mind the risk involved if it doesn't pan out.
I would say it's the Indy developers that been repeating the same blue prints over the last 15 years.
MMORPG used to take time to make but did not cost near anything recent AAA spent
And did they do a better job?
In my view answer is a big NO
Take SWTOR considered to have cost excess of $250m to make
It did not even bother to make its own engine with all that cash and brought about an engine which could not handle mass pvp and thus that part of SWTOR died off
Yet could spent $50m paying voice actors
Its all because mmorpg are not made with passion
Big suits run it and have no idea .
Back then devs were ready to sleep in to build their passion but in end got shafted by the big suits when it became very profitable
Fans too became less patient .Back then we accepted bugs and trusted devs to fix it but not anymore
So this is from DAoC wiki
"'Total development costs excluding equipment leases was about $2.5 million[12] and took 18 months with a team of 25 full-time developers.[11]3DS Max and Character Studio were used to create all models and animations within the game'"
So somehow DAoC got mass pvp to work on crappy internet back in 2001 and SWTOR could not with good internet speed and a 100 times more budget
To me DAoC is/was a AAA game so is eve online and EQ1 etc and they took a mere fraction of cost to make
MMORPG needs to go back to basics and a AAA game does not need to have $200m spent on it
That is a pure sub MMO that doesn't have a trace of a cash shop built into the game? Absolutely. No one is going to build a complete game, charge 15 bucks a month and give you ALL the content.
MMOs will make a comeback. Don't worry. I remember when this was said about WW2 FPS games. After World at War (2008), modern-style shooters reigned for almost 10 years. People were yearning for a new WW2 title. Since last year, we've probably gotten 10 new WW2 titles. lol.
Depends on what you consider "AAA" New World and another LOTR mmo are in development. I'm looking forward to Pantheon personally but its not being made by a huge team. That said quality games with a vision that AREN'T big name seem to be the most anticipated right now from my circle (note JUST MY CIRCLE) I'd rather see something well made. The thing that has nearly killed the genre is WOW clones, we need other types of games.
Comments
Lighten up ..... or just don't reply, we're having fun here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ATM 24% of the mobile casual market have strong guilding mechanics, to help with retention. Often times you'll see mechanics worse than just notifications, sometimes even mechanics like one person spending having guild wide bonuses (buy yourself 20% better drop rates, guild gets +5% and gets to know it's from you). Considering loot boxes were experimented with on mobile first, it's only inevitable that we suffer through it next. (Don't remember the article the stat was from though, it just stuck with me).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you are spending 150 million on development, chances are you still need to pay 30 million every year for continuing update and maintenance. Probably why many mmorpg in development are shutdown because investor lost faith it can recoup.
Also all those numbers are rumored. Chances are many of those number are not even real, but just made up for hype advertisement.
The problem is many of those indie mmorpg are too small budget.
Big difference.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I will rarely agree to calling for a lock on a thread topic, though I will confess it was a bit of a relief when moderators finally closed a few here around violence and gaming.
I'm all for a good slagging on most any game, but shutting down the discussion, never, there's too many dead horses around here I still enjoy beating on.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)
"AAA (pronounced and sometimes written Triple-A) is an informal classification used for video games produced and distributed by a mid-sized or major publisher, typically having higher development and marketing budgets. AAA is analogous to the film industry term "blockbuster".[1]
In the mid 2010s, the term "AAA+" began to be used to describe AAA type games that generated additional revenue over time in a similar fashion to MMOs by using software as a service (SaaS) methods, such as season passes or expansion packs. The similar construction "III" (Triple-I) has also been used to describe indie game companies' works of very high quality."
typically having higher development and marketing budgets....
AAA has always been about how much money was spent on it.
I would also fund a ground up build of Horizons/Istaria in 2020
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
This have been a good conversation