Obligation to play trash.

Vermillion_Raventhal

For me if a MMORPG is good I usually will have some interest in it.  At least the short term of trying it out and enjoying it for it's worth.  For example themepark MMORPG I realized are just short term investments because the long term isn't something I am interested in.

When I play MMORPG that are bad I am not going to have much interest regardless of type of game.  For example a game like Mortal Online if done well would have interested me.  Unfortunately it was just bad to me. 

But I always see if you want games like MO you must play it.  I don't want games like MO because I found it bad and being the right type of game doesn't matter. 

Amathe

I don't think you have to carry the market on your shoulders.  Just play what you like. 

Scot

You have no obligation to play trash, however we all have an obligation to take it out. Speak up if you think a MMO needs to be in the dustbin. We won't always agree on what MMOs need to go in the bin, but disagreeing is healthy for the mind so out with the rubbish.

moshra

Scot said:

You have no obligation to play trash, however we all have an obligation to take it out. Speak up if you think a MMO needs to be in the dustbin. We won't always agree on what MMOs need to go in the bin, but disagreeing is healthy for the mind so out with the rubbish.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Sovrath

Amathe said:

I don't think you have to carry the market on your shoulders.  Just play what you like. 

Yeah, pretty much "this."

Only thing is that he does have a point. If people don't play things then it doesn't show that there is a want for those things.

And then someone decides to get some money together and make their own game. But they don't have enough money or enough experience and the game either never releases or it releases in a horrible state.

You THEN have other people pointing out how there is no market for it because that particular game didn't do well. But did it not do well because of what it was or because it just wasn't made well?

Kyleran

Sovrath said:

Amathe said:

I don't think you have to carry the market on your shoulders.  Just play what you like. 

Yeah, pretty much "this."

Only thing is that he does have a point. If people don't play things then it doesn't show that there is a want for those things.

And then someone decides to get some money together and make their own game. But they don't have enough money or enough experience and the game either never releases or it releases in a horrible state.

You THEN have other people pointing out how there is no market for it because that particular game didn't do well. But did it not do well because of what it was or because it just wasn't made well?

Agreed, one doesn't have to support a particular game, but if they never support any similar title because of "reasons" (however valid) then very likely the type of game they are hoping for likely will never be created.

alkarionlog

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Amathe said:

I don't think you have to carry the market on your shoulders.  Just play what you like. 

Yeah, pretty much "this."

Only thing is that he does have a point. If people don't play things then it doesn't show that there is a want for those things.

And then someone decides to get some money together and make their own game. But they don't have enough money or enough experience and the game either never releases or it releases in a horrible state.

You THEN have other people pointing out how there is no market for it because that particular game didn't do well. But did it not do well because of what it was or because it just wasn't made well?

Agreed, one doesn't have to support a particular game, but if they never support any similar title because of "reasons" (however valid) then very likely the type of game they are hoping for likely will never be created.

but its not what we want? theys top making crap and start to work on something good? I said before and will say it again, they will not make a good game and spend on making it if a crap game give return, when crap games start failing on day one then maybe we will see progress

Kyleran

alkarionlog said:

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Amathe said:

I don't think you have to carry the market on your shoulders.  Just play what you like. 

Yeah, pretty much "this."

Only thing is that he does have a point. If people don't play things then it doesn't show that there is a want for those things.

And then someone decides to get some money together and make their own game. But they don't have enough money or enough experience and the game either never releases or it releases in a horrible state.

You THEN have other people pointing out how there is no market for it because that particular game didn't do well. But did it not do well because of what it was or because it just wasn't made well?

Agreed, one doesn't have to support a particular game, but if they never support any similar title because of "reasons" (however valid) then very likely the type of game they are hoping for likely will never be created.

but its not what we want? theys top making crap and start to work on something good? I said before and will say it again, they will not make a good game and spend on making it if a crap game give return, when crap games start failing on day one then maybe we will see progress

What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Wizardry

I think OP is saying that we have to support the bad games that have a better idea just to keep those dev teams in play and hopefully one of them makes a quality game.

I support only games i want to play,i am not doing anything for these businesses,they are all cut throat operations only in it for themselves,so don't worry none about them.

There is only one way you get the game you want,someone with a like mind set comes along AND has the team and budget to pull it off AND are not pushed or influenced by investors,a tall order to fill.
SO what we are more likely to see are games with a business idea behind them way more than a game design idea behind them.Example THIS idea might work with a cash shop and it has community ideas,sounds good,let's make a game.OK our game seems to be accepted as generally a decent game,let's not wait,the faster we push this out the sooner we start making money...sigh.

I bet there are all kinds of dumbass decisions being made inside of all game studios,money curbs the brain in awkward ways.

I am way more than confident that if i had the time and money,i could build a game i would actually think is worthy and not just some business idea.Sadly i am not the type of person running these businesses,these are former ceo's,execs from other big businesses,people highly trained in relevant skills that now think they can make a game etc etc,basically not real gamer minds but business minds.

Amathe

There are many reasons why a game may not be financially successful. For example, the company may be mismanaged. They may not market the game well. They may be paying too much overhead. They may have technical issues (Vanguard). I could go on and on.

Sure, if nobody plays it, it's likely to fail (unless it's Star Citizen). But you, individually, buying the game isn't going to save it. There would have to be lots and lots of you. And if the game sucks, there won't be.  You will just be Kevin Bacon in Animal House saying "All is well!" when it isn't.

KnightFalz

Sovrath said:

If people don't play things then it doesn't show that there is a want for those things.

If people don't play things to the extent they aren't economically viable, they don't want them.

Mendel

And here I was thinking this was going to be a rant against endless hoards of trash mobs in most game's raid designs.  Thanks for not going down that particular road.

If I think a game is trash, it simply doesn't get played.  I'm incredibly loyal to some older games (the Microprose version of Colonization, Caesar 3, and Hearts of Iron 3).  There's too much good options for me to force myself to play games I don't like.  Yes, it hurts to pay money for an inferior game; that's part of why I'm not an "early adopter" anymore.

Kyleran

Mendel said:

And here I was thinking this was going to be a rant against endless hoards of trash mobs in most game's raid designs.  Thanks for not going down that particular road.

If I think a game is trash, it simply doesn't get played.  I'm incredibly loyal to some older games (the Microprose version of Colonization, Caesar 3, and Hearts of Iron 3).  There's too much good options for me to force myself to play games I don't like.  Yes, it hurts to pay money for an inferior game; that's part of why I'm not an "early adopter" anymore.

I dunno, there's quite a few games that I think are utter trash, yet millions still play them anyways.

Weird.

Amathe

Arterius said:

I feel obligated to play trash. Not MMO's mind you but if I buy a video game for $60 I force myself to play at least 20-30 hours of it or beat it whichever comes first. 

I usually look to see if I can find a spot somewhere in the garage to toss it where my wife won't see. 

Vermillion_Raventhal

I mean in theory if a game like Mortal Online got WoW money it hire enough programmers to make a good game in time or a sequel or rebirth.  

I just hate when some comes along and say see you don't even support the genre or game type.  Do popular game types give players more leeway to be picky? Unpopular ones we got to support any crap thrown our way.  

Amathe

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I just hate when some comes along and say see you don't even support the genre or game type.   

I think what you need to work on is telling people to F Off. 

Watch.

Opinionated Person:  You don't even support the genre or game type.   

You: F Off! 

See how easy?

Sovrath

KnightFalz said:

Sovrath said:

If people don't play things then it doesn't show that there is a want for those things.

If people don't play things to the extent they aren't economically viable, they don't want them.

If I love something but the only thing available for that thing is "bad" then I won't patronize it.

Doesn't mean I don't want it. It means I don't want a bad version of it.

I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Now, if you will patronize something, even if its bad, then that's great.

anemo

If you're obsessed with a mechanic you probably should have lower expectations and go with what's around. 

For instance Arc started out a complete disaster of a mess, and still is in many ways.  However since players stuck with it it caused a boom in the survival genre (Arc's predecessors are even worse).  There are even non indy games in the genre now.

The same could be said about PUBG,  it's pretty much a mess and players pretty much exploit the hell out of it.  But after players proved there was a demand Epic decided to troll us and make their own version...  And now we're stuck with every publisher demanding a BattleRoyale game. 

____

On the other hand if you're just a normal player that wants to have fun.  You'll have tons of fun playing whatever comes out and proves to be fun.  Then move on to the next game.

Quite simply put there are so many games coming out that if you just want to have fun, it'll never stop.

Jamar870

Wizardry said:

There is only one way you get the game you want,someone with a like mind set comes along AND has the team and budget to pull it off AND are not pushed or influenced by investors,a tall order to fill.

Well you have something like that with SC

AlBQuirky

In this day of F2P MMO games, not all of the old rules apply quite the same. If enough didn't like a specific game in days of yore, it eventually shut down since subs alone couldn't keep it afloat. But if a few "whales" like a cash shop game, they, as a small group, will keep it running and possibly inspire more games like it. "Vote with your wallet" is no longer a viable option to show one's displeasure with a game. One rule still applies and that is, as DMKano alluded to, money talks. Supporting a game by "just logging in and playing" carries much less weight with developers than buying cash shop items regularly.

F2P has taken the power out of the "masses" hands and placed it into the hands of the "too much disposable income." You certainly don't have to suffer through trash games by playing them

lahnmir

AlBQuirky said:

In this day of F2P MMO games, not all of the old rules apply quite the same. If enough didn't like a specific game in days of yore, it eventually shut down since subs alone couldn't keep it afloat. But if a few "whales" like a cash shop game, they, as a small group, will keep it running and possibly inspire more games like it. "Vote with your wallet" is no longer a viable option to show one's displeasure with a game. One rule still applies and that is, as DMKano alluded to, money talks. Supporting a game by "just logging in and playing" carries much less weight with developers than buying cash shop items regularly.

F2P has taken the power out of the "masses" hands and placed it into the hands of the "too much disposable income." You certainly don't have to suffer through trash games by playing them

The masses are never in control. One person with a million dollars has more to say in the industry then 100.000 people with only one dollar.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

AlBQuirky

lahnmir said:

AlBQuirky said:

In this day of F2P MMO games, not all of the old rules apply quite the same. If enough didn't like a specific game in days of yore, it eventually shut down since subs alone couldn't keep it afloat. But if a few "whales" like a cash shop game, they, as a small group, will keep it running and possibly inspire more games like it. "Vote with your wallet" is no longer a viable option to show one's displeasure with a game. One rule still applies and that is, as DMKano alluded to, money talks. Supporting a game by "just logging in and playing" carries much less weight with developers than buying cash shop items regularly.

F2P has taken the power out of the "masses" hands and placed it into the hands of the "too much disposable income." You certainly don't have to suffer through trash games by playing them

The masses are never in control. One person with a million dollars has more to say in the industry then 100.000 people with only one dollar.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Back in the subscription pay model days, 1 person could only spend $15/month, though they could pay for multiple accounts. Then, maybe a 10 to 1 ratio would be tops. Cash shops opened the "contribution" to unlimited spending by players.

Usually, I agree 100% that rich people control things, but in old MMORPG subscription days, there was an "equalizer" in place that limited spending

Adamantine

I'm not willing to spend money on stuff that I dont want, and I'm surprised to learn that some people feel "obliged" to spent their money in this rather riddiculous way.