City of Heroes Homecoming Team Cracking Down On Copyright Infringing Characters - MMORPG.com

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City of Heroes Homecoming Team Cracking Down On Copyright Infringing Characters - MMORPG.com

It looks like copyright infringement is being cracked down upon by the City Of Heroes Homecoming team, via a forum post yesterday.

Read the full story here

Spriggen1337

Isn't the whole game copyright infringement?

Scot

Spriggen1337 said:

Isn't the whole game copyright infringement?

If they do a deal with NCsoft they won't be, such is the mercurial nature of that strange thing we call the law.

Beezerbeez

My two goals for today:
1- read interesting news about CoH
2- find out a way to make money from home
Check and mate.

knightaudit

As a player of COH ... I think this is a great thing .. I have seen a lot of copycats ...given what the character creator can do, why copy.

goozmania

If they aren't making money, it shouldn't matter, from a legal standpoint. Why copy? Because you can, and it's a role playing game.

MMOGamer71

Spriggen1337 said:

Isn't the whole game copyright infringement?

Came here to ponder this ^

MMOGamer71

goozmania said:

If they aren't making money, it shouldn't matter, from a legal standpoint.
Why copy? Because you can, and it's a role playing game.

So I should be able to pirate any digital media and give it away for free? Huh?

This helps explains why Copyrights, Patents, IP laws etc exist.

Utinni

goozmania said:

If they aren't making money, it shouldn't matter, from a legal standpoint. Why copy? Because you can, and it's a role playing game.

So if I start producing an exact copy of Coca-Cola, but I give it away, they have no legal recourse? LOL

Nilden

Kinda like following the traffic laws in a stolen car, pretty pointless, but ok.

gervaise1

As @Torval says when dealing with "abandoned software" it isn't necessarily clear cut.

And its been ruled, in the EU, that if a company continues to use abandoned business software - that they have legally acquired obviously often for millions of dollars - they are not breaking the law. (And that the laws of the land outrank ToSs)

Not sure that has been tested in the US yet so anyone still using Win7 in the US should take note that they might be breaking the law when MS stop supporting it ..... 

Hariken

Arterius said:

I think they are getting closer and closer to announce a partnership with NCSoft. Seems weird to announce this months after the launch and now they have to do some serious work to enforce this. When it might have been a little easier to do since the beginning

And you can bet when they do it won't be free. NCSoft wants money from those million players that homecoming has now.

Mendel

Irony -- when operators of a pirated game enforce IP rights for others.

lahnmir

Mendel said:

Irony -- when operators of a pirated game enforce IP rights for others.

Agree. And CoX isn’t abandonware, it has been shut down, a small but important difference.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Spriggen1337

goozmania said:

If they aren't making money, it shouldn't matter, from a legal standpoint.
Why copy? Because you can, and it's a role playing game.

actually from a legal standpoint they can still be attacked even if they dont make money..... it depends on if the brands ip is being "hurt" (yes i know they have kinda vaulted this game for a while and dont have any interest in making a new one as far as we are aware)

Heretique

Deja Vu, I remember when NCSoft had the same article.

DavodtheTutt

It seems a shame to me that this even comes up -- even before it was a problem for NCsoft, I wondered about people stepping over the line from a tribute character to just trying to make a copy. Without that character being part of the world they were made for, it would never be the same. And it seems to be missing the whole point of the game -- making your OWN heroes and guiding them through adventures! Copying existing heroes is a tawdry display of a lack of imagination.

As to the Homecoming team using the CoH software... I'm generally quite strict about copyrights and such, I even say "facial tissue" instead of the brand name that nearly became synonymous with the generic product. But I feel in this case, now that it's been many years since CoH shut down, and Homecoming has gone public, and NCSoft is NOT suing or demanding they shut down, it's more like someone finding an old computer sitting out on the curb and picking it up, knowing the owner is watching -- and apparently just shrugging or maybe negotiating. If THEY don't care, why should bystanders make such a fuss?

Arglebargle

MMOGamer71 said:

goozmania said:

If they aren't making money, it shouldn't matter, from a legal standpoint.
Why copy? Because you can, and it's a role playing game.

So I should be able to pirate any digital media and give it away for free? Huh?

This helps explains why Copyrights, Patents, IP laws etc exist.

The reason patents run 20 years, and IPs used to run around that length was because it was considered a social value to have those things eventually in the public domain, so others could build upon it.  

Enter The Mouse.   Disney is working hard at getting perpetual rights for IPs.  Especially since they are buying many IPs up right and left.   Given that Marvel is in the Mouse House now, everyone really wants to have the look of 'not infringing, no, not us!'

Going to court against Disney is like getting nuked from orbit;  to be sure...

rojoArcueid

I find this funny because in DCUO my main character was a mirror image of Jubilee from Xmen. As a player, dressing your character as close to your favorite heroes as possible shouldn't be a problem.

My opinion.

Wizardry

Sounds to me like he is afraid of trademark bullying and understands there is very little law to protect his business from the giants bullying him on trademark claims.

The legal entities are now realizing the problem and we will see changes in trademark laws however there is ALWAYS the one argument being used that will always allow for trademark bullying.

The argument is that ANYTHING that looks even remotely like our product if allowed to continue will allow even more businesses to come close to our trademarks and eventually the market is flooded with similar and diffusing our products worth.

I don't agree with ANY trademark arguments favoring because imo trademarks are TOO CHEAP around $250 and handed out too easily.

We need to better protect small businesses from the large ones enacting trademark bullying,no small business should operate in fear of his competitors.Better hire some good lawyers or all your work could flush down the toilet.

lahnmir

Torval said:

lahnmir said:

Mendel said:

Irony -- when operators of a pirated game enforce IP rights for others.

Agree. And CoX isn’t abandonware, it has been shut down, a small but important difference.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

You're not going backwards, you're moving not forwards. Duh.

I read it three times but I don’t have a clue what you mean. Sorry mate.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Palebane

This seems stupid to me. Its a video game. The developers arent infringing so why does it matter what players do with the tools given as long as they arent blatantly offensive or inappropriate.Too many whiney babies in this industry.

Xiaoki

Palebane said:

This seems stupid to me. Its a video game. The developers arent infringing so why does it matter what players do with the tools given as long as they arent blatantly offensive or inappropriate.Too many whiney babies in this industry.

Should check out the "Publisher vs Platform" debates around Facebook and Twitter.

Facebook is a platform so they are not legally responsible for what their members do.

A game like City of Heroes would be a publisher so they would be legally responsible for what their players do.

But, that itself raises a question if what Homecoming is doing is legal or not. Probably not but you definitely do not want to enter into a legal red zone while already in a legal gray zone. One official complaint from Marvel or DC will get them immediately shut down by NCsoft.

Iselin

On the one hand this is a standard stuff in any MMO I've ever played and yet every conceivable variation of Arya Stark, Legolas, etc. exists in them and nothing is ever done about them.

It's funny that a pirate version of a game that itself was an unlicensed version of the Marvel and DC superhero universes is making a big deal out of this... unless they're just belatedly including this standard TOS bit, have no intention of being more strict with policing it than anyone else, and we're the ones making a big deal out of it.

unfilteredJW

Gotta stay out of The Rat’s radar.

GladDog

I want to say something about this;

Why did TonyV walk away from the negotiations when, as he states, they are almost done?  This is scary, IMO.  The answers supplied did not meet my satisfaction, and quite honestly, I think there are a lot of people out there that agree.  Yes, real life rules, but why walk away when you are almost done?  I would think he would be a hero in the gaming world if he pulls this off.  There are a lot of things that are not so good that come to mind about why he is walking away.

I know that a couple of gaming companies have attempted to reach out to NCsoft about this IP, but NCsoft has not replied.  At all, not even a courtesy email.  If they were in negotiations, I would think they would at least say as much to these game companies.  Back in April, when the team said they were in negotiations, a Reddit troll trying to be funny scared them so much that they closed everything they were working on, which cost them some money.  This did not seem like a team in negotiations, and it is hard for me to believe they are in negotiations now.

Don't get me wrong, I really hope the Homecoming Team pulls this off.  CoH still has a lot of life left in it.  But until NCsoft says something to someone, anyone, in the public realm, I am really nervous about the whole situation.