I've concluded upon reading this thread that MMO players are the whiniest bunch of entitled brats in the gaming community. It's no wonder we can't get a single decent release in the genre because for every 1 person that loves a design decision there are 10 that "boycott" a game because of this or that reason that doesn't perfectly check all of their boxes. May as well start playing battle royale games, this genre is going nowhere anytime soon.
I'm excited for this game. I like the idea of having a Relos Zek server on release. I'm a pvp/pve person. I like both. Only thing I don't want is instancing.
That's my thought. Let's see if they can finish it and take it for what it actually is instead of what people would want "in their head." Which seems business as usual for some reason.
Because "what people have in their head" is based on very specific goals for the game, per the developers. It's based on lengthy posts, discussions, videos, interviews, etc.
I don't see the harm in people discussing their own thoughts or concerns about the game.
I'm sure even you have an imagined "ideal" of the game in your head, what you imagine it could be, Sovrath. And frankly, "let's just wait and see what happens" just seems like a non-opinion wrapped in some aloof self-image.. as though coming from someone who deems themself "more enlightened than the rabble". A bit pretentious, in other words.
I don't care if you think it's pretentious or not. That's on you.
Yes, I do have an idea of my "perfect game." Guess what? I never take that into any game I play. It's ridiculous to do so because I have no direct input. Should people talk about this game and what they want? sure why not! But it seems that there are so many people who have so much invested that one mention of something that isn't even clear, especially if they have not fully read what was being said, gets the "well I'm out." response.
Happens all the time here. So yeah, wish what you want to wish, discuss the game as it is developed. But if and when it launches it will be something that has a foot in what the game started out to be and then a foot into what could actually be created.
That's the another problem and one that the developers have to constantly battle, which is that if they need to make major changes or omit something or add something then suddenly the righteous start brandishing their pitchforks and screaming "you promised."
I and others have said it before and will say it again but developers are sort of damned if they do/damned if they don't. If they don't say anything then they are ignoring the playerbase, have gone dark, "it's vaporware." etc. If they do say things then they are held accountable to every single thing and nothing can change. Can't remove a city, can't remove a race or class, it all has to be there.
Believe me, I have my opinions, and I've made them clear from day one of posting on this forum. But I also know that my opinions are just that "my opinions" and I recognize they are opinions. The game will launch as it can, if it can, regardless of my opinions and I'll take it for what it is as I have not had one iota of power to change it one way or another.
That's called life. You take it as it comes and you make changes when you can and if you can't then you can stew in your own juices or accept it and move on.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you stated but I think something missing would be this new Crowdfunding concept where developers rely on customers paying (often massive amounts) in advance and not offering refunds. If you take my money to produce X and produce 1/2X and 1/2Y I think there is a rightful discussion to be had.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As someone who tried PvP in Vanguard on launch day... Brad should really just focus on PvE and worry about adding PvP servers at a later date.
Dont expect a deep PvP experience like ESO or DAoC. EQ1 rules sets were fun but still no depth. There was a hardcore small group of PvPers that loved their PvP servers but myself I played EQ1 and DAoC at the same time as that was the best PvP experience at that time. This will be slightly more then checking a box as any PvPer who has been PvP MMOing for any length of time. A game needs to be built from the ground up with PvP in mind to add any depth. That being said, if they do the char copy command in Pantheon. I will be playing on a PvP server as well when Pantheon launches as I have a life now and dont have time to play 2 MMOs lol.
You must be joking. ESO .. having a deep PvP experience... ?! LOL!!!
That has to be the most shallow, gimmicky PvP I've seen in an MMO. It's entirely gear-dependent and skill means absolutely nothing.
You may not like ESO but you cant make fun of the depth. Deadicated zone for 3 faction war, Sieges, Relics to take to your faction to give buffs to your faction, PvP public dungeons, PvPE quests, dozens of gear sets designed just for PvPers. I could go on and on. This is not the type of DEEP PvP Pantheon is talking about.
One thing that concerns me about PvE vs PvP combat is that PvE combat is more likely to rely on auto-attack to do damage than PvP. PvP seems more adaptable with having damage done from "special attacks or abilities", i.e. requiring some form of button mashing.
So I guess my real question here is: in Pantheon, how much of the overall combat damage from an individual will derive from auto-attack as opposed to manual activation? That is going to directly impact how the combat mechanism will be implemented, and how PvP will differ from PvE.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
That's my thought. Let's see if they can finish it and take it for what it actually is instead of what people would want "in their head." Which seems business as usual for some reason.
Because "what people have in their head" is based on very specific goals for the game, per the developers. It's based on lengthy posts, discussions, videos, interviews, etc.
I don't see the harm in people discussing their own thoughts or concerns about the game.
I'm sure even you have an imagined "ideal" of the game in your head, what you imagine it could be, Sovrath. And frankly, "let's just wait and see what happens" just seems like a non-opinion wrapped in some aloof self-image.. as though coming from someone who deems themself "more enlightened than the rabble". A bit pretentious, in other words.
I don't care if you think it's pretentious or not. That's on you.
Yes, I do have an idea of my "perfect game." Guess what? I never take that into any game I play. It's ridiculous to do so because I have no direct input. Should people talk about this game and what they want? sure why not! But it seems that there are so many people who have so much invested that one mention of something that isn't even clear, especially if they have not fully read what was being said, gets the "well I'm out." response.
Happens all the time here. So yeah, wish what you want to wish, discuss the game as it is developed. But if and when it launches it will be something that has a foot in what the game started out to be and then a foot into what could actually be created.
That's the another problem and one that the developers have to constantly battle, which is that if they need to make major changes or omit something or add something then suddenly the righteous start brandishing their pitchforks and screaming "you promised."
I and others have said it before and will say it again but developers are sort of damned if they do/damned if they don't. If they don't say anything then they are ignoring the playerbase, have gone dark, "it's vaporware." etc. If they do say things then they are held accountable to every single thing and nothing can change. Can't remove a city, can't remove a race or class, it all has to be there.
Believe me, I have my opinions, and I've made them clear from day one of posting on this forum. But I also know that my opinions are just that "my opinions" and I recognize they are opinions. The game will launch as it can, if it can, regardless of my opinions and I'll take it for what it is as I have not had one iota of power to change it one way or another.
That's called life. You take it as it comes and you make changes when you can and if you can't then you can stew in your own juices or accept it and move on.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you stated but I think something missing would be this new Crowdfunding concept where developers rely on customers paying (often massive amounts) in advance and not offering refunds. If you take my money to produce X and produce 1/2X and 1/2Y I think there is a rightful discussion to be had.
As I've said that's on the player. Sorry to not agree but that's what I think.
In my "life" of being in the arts, crowdfunding is a big part of it. Heck, major arts institutions rely upon people to give so that they can continue to offer great works, showings, "whatever" without having to fold or raise prices to where the average person can't afford it.
Crowdfunding IS a great way to get things done without having to rely upon major corporations.
And, as I've also said, everything I've crowdfunded "knock*on*wood" has come to fruition.
Doesn't mean they were necessarily amazing but they all were finished. That also doesn't mean that there won't be a first time when something doesn't get finished. But I don't give money expecting guarantees. Probably part of the problem with most people giving money. They don't know what they are doing. They think they are actually giving money with a guarantee that what is being advertised will be delivered.
No. Stop it.
If people give money they should kiss that goodbye. No refunds. How can it be? If the project needed 100k and it turns out that they really needed 150k and therefore can't deliver, where is this money going to come from for refunds? If they had the money in the first place they wouldn't (or shouldn't ) have needed the crowdfunding.
No, just give what you want and hope that it gets done and is decent. Never give what you can't or shouldn't give and never expect a guarantee. Only give to projects where they can show a significant amount of work and evidence that they can even have the ability to deliver what they have offered.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
That's my thought. Let's see if they can finish it and take it for what it actually is instead of what people would want "in their head." Which seems business as usual for some reason.
Because "what people have in their head" is based on very specific goals for the game, per the developers. It's based on lengthy posts, discussions, videos, interviews, etc.
I don't see the harm in people discussing their own thoughts or concerns about the game.
I'm sure even you have an imagined "ideal" of the game in your head, what you imagine it could be, Sovrath. And frankly, "let's just wait and see what happens" just seems like a non-opinion wrapped in some aloof self-image.. as though coming from someone who deems themself "more enlightened than the rabble". A bit pretentious, in other words.
I don't care if you think it's pretentious or not. That's on you.
Yes, I do have an idea of my "perfect game." Guess what? I never take that into any game I play. It's ridiculous to do so because I have no direct input. Should people talk about this game and what they want? sure why not! But it seems that there are so many people who have so much invested that one mention of something that isn't even clear, especially if they have not fully read what was being said, gets the "well I'm out." response.
Happens all the time here. So yeah, wish what you want to wish, discuss the game as it is developed. But if and when it launches it will be something that has a foot in what the game started out to be and then a foot into what could actually be created.
That's the another problem and one that the developers have to constantly battle, which is that if they need to make major changes or omit something or add something then suddenly the righteous start brandishing their pitchforks and screaming "you promised."
I and others have said it before and will say it again but developers are sort of damned if they do/damned if they don't. If they don't say anything then they are ignoring the playerbase, have gone dark, "it's vaporware." etc. If they do say things then they are held accountable to every single thing and nothing can change. Can't remove a city, can't remove a race or class, it all has to be there.
Believe me, I have my opinions, and I've made them clear from day one of posting on this forum. But I also know that my opinions are just that "my opinions" and I recognize they are opinions. The game will launch as it can, if it can, regardless of my opinions and I'll take it for what it is as I have not had one iota of power to change it one way or another.
That's called life. You take it as it comes and you make changes when you can and if you can't then you can stew in your own juices or accept it and move on.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you stated but I think something missing would be this new Crowdfunding concept where developers rely on customers paying (often massive amounts) in advance and not offering refunds. If you take my money to produce X and produce 1/2X and 1/2Y I think there is a rightful discussion to be had.
As I've said that's on the player. Sorry to not agree but that's what I think.
In my "life" of being in the arts, crowdfunding is a big part of it. Heck, major arts institutions rely upon people to give so that they can continue to offer great works, showings, "whatever" without having to fold or raise prices to where the average person can't afford it.
Crowdfunding IS a great way to get things done without having to rely upon major corporations.
And, as I've also said, everything I've crowdfunded "knock*on*wood" has come to fruition.
Doesn't mean they were necessarily amazing but they all were finished. That also doesn't mean that there won't be a first time when something doesn't get finished. But I don't give money expecting guarantees. Probably part of the problem with most people giving money. They don't know what they are doing. They think they are actually giving money with a guarantee that what is being advertised will be delivered.
No. Stop it.
If people give money they should kiss that goodbye. No refunds. How can it be? If the project needed 100k and it turns out that they really needed 150k and therefore can't deliver, where is this money going to come from for refunds? If they had the money in the first place they wouldn't (or shouldn't ) have needed the crowdfunding.
No, just give what you want and hope that it gets done and is decent. Never give what you can't or shouldn't give and never expect a guarantee. Only give to projects where they can show a significant amount of work and evidence that they can even have the ability to deliver what they have offered.
If someone says they will do X by Y, and takes money to do X by Y, it is incumbent on THEM to do X by Y. If they cannot, they need to expect criticism.
Otherwise, these Crowdfunded projects should simply ask for open donations with no ETA, no deliverables, just pure donations. But we both know that if they just had open donations with no deliverables they would only raise a fraction of what they raise by over-promising.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well lol,,the reasoning is too funny to me. Of course the idea of crowd funding is a good one but for WHO?It does not do a single thing for a gamer/consumer,it does NOTHING.
It is FREE handouts to run a business,NOPE sorry i cannot agree with that being a good thing ever. If your local car dealer came by and asked you for a free handout to build a new car lot that will sell cars you like,you going to give it to him?
On the topic of the title,i do not care one bit about "instances" so i see it not as good topic or selling point.Sure like everyone else i can live with them but i don't want to talk about instances like ti is a good thing.
Guess what else,i do not like pvp in a rpg for several reasons,so again NOT a good selling point to focus on talking about it. The only things i want to know..see is how this team has taken bad old ideas and improved upon them.I do NOT want EQ1.5 so it is simple,show me you learned over the years,show me yo ucan make a good game that "makes sense".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have a very good hunch,they will improve upon a few ideas but mostly i expect this to actually be smaller than EQ or Eq2 but look better.So in essence trading off a more robust game in EQ1 or EQ2 and giving us better graphics,is that a good trade off,can they pull off an equally robust game and with better graphics? We will see,i am skeptical.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I wonder what is in the fine print when people make these type of donations. It should say:
Disclaimer
Thank you for your donation. Please note that your donated funds may be pissed away. Seriously, we may decide to line management's birdcage with your money. You have no reasonable expectation of anything. Zero. Nada. Fu*k all. If you do not understand this, you can have your money back today. But after today, it will just suck to be you. Your funds are gone. Mime, mine, mine, mine. No take backs. Follow the bouncing ball, and say "I am getting diddly squat for my money." This is not an investment. It is not a contract. It conveys no rights or privileges. There is no quid pro quo. You give us funds. We say "atta boy", provide you nothing, and laugh among ourselves. End of discussion.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
As someone who tried PvP in Vanguard on launch day... Brad should really just focus on PvE and worry about adding PvP servers at a later date.
Dont expect a deep PvP experience like ESO or DAoC. EQ1 rules sets were fun but still no depth. There was a hardcore small group of PvPers that loved their PvP servers but myself I played EQ1 and DAoC at the same time as that was the best PvP experience at that time. This will be slightly more then checking a box as any PvPer who has been PvP MMOing for any length of time. A game needs to be built from the ground up with PvP in mind to add any depth. That being said, if they do the char copy command in Pantheon. I will be playing on a PvP server as well when Pantheon launches as I have a life now and dont have time to play 2 MMOs lol.
You must be joking. ESO .. having a deep PvP experience... ?! LOL!!!
That has to be the most shallow, gimmicky PvP I've seen in an MMO. It's entirely gear-dependent and skill means absolutely nothing.
Character stats and being dependent on them for performance is the hallmark of the RPG. Perhaps you should stick with MMOFPS for player skill over character stats and gear.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Otherwise, these Crowdfunded projects should simply ask for open donations with no ETA, no deliverables, just pure donations. But we both know that if they just had open donations with no deliverables they would only raise a fraction of what they raise by over-promising.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Of course the idea of crowd funding is a good one but for WHO?It does not do a single thing for a gamer/consumer,it does NOTHING.
It is FREE handouts to run a business,NOPE sorry i cannot agree with that being a good thing ever.
If your local car dealer came by and asked you for a free handout to build a new car lot that will sell cars you like,you going to give it to him?
On the topic of the title,i do not care one bit about "instances" so i see it not as good topic or selling point.Sure like everyone else i can live with them but i don't want to talk about instances like ti is a good thing.
Guess what else,i do not like pvp in a rpg for several reasons,so again NOT a good selling point to focus on talking about it.
The only things i want to know..see is how this team has taken bad old ideas and improved upon them.I do NOT want EQ1.5 so it is simple,show me you learned over the years,show me yo ucan make a good game that "makes sense".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
We will see,i am skeptical.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Disclaimer
Thank you for your donation. Please note that your donated funds may be pissed away. Seriously, we may decide to line management's birdcage with your money. You have no reasonable expectation of anything. Zero. Nada. Fu*k all. If you do not understand this, you can have your money back today. But after today, it will just suck to be you. Your funds are gone. Mime, mine, mine, mine. No take backs. Follow the bouncing ball, and say "I am getting diddly squat for my money." This is not an investment. It is not a contract. It conveys no rights or privileges. There is no quid pro quo. You give us funds. We say "atta boy", provide you nothing, and laugh among ourselves. End of discussion.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests