Don't know why people get so attached to the term MMO. See many people insisting MMO = MMORPG.
I doubt people from other genre care. They just call themselves MOBA or shooters. If other people don't care I don't see why MMORPG players should care.
Heres some logic that has never crossed your mind I guess, but what if people are looking for something and certain words describe it clearly but other people who don't understand it use it wrong?
How are the people in the know supposed to communicate when people insist it means something it clearly doesnt?
You think its cool for people to recommend a 16 player game when I am clearly looking for one with hundreds of people?
Its called a descriptor and they are important.
Welcome to the English language where words and meanings of words gets added all the time.
I suppose you don't quite get it. Yes words and meanings change over time. In fact a certain word used to mean bundle of sticks. However, there are certain words which are critical to the english language and have not changed since they were originally conceived.
Would you care to tell me which of the following words have changed meaning and how you would interpret those new meanings/definition to make it stand for 16 players?
1 Massive (massively in this usage as it is currently describing the multi portion of multiplayer)
2 Multiplayer (multiple players)
3 Online
So which of those three words has been altered so that a 16 player game like Destiny can be considered an MMO? Hmm?
So which of those three words has been altered so that a 16 player game like Destiny can be considered an MMO? Hmm?
Sorry I think you don't quite get it ...
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
So looking at an article, it seems that 226k people were playing Destiny 2 at one point. That is now the "massively" part.
A massive amount of people signing into the game; a massive amount of people that you might group with at any one time.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I was obliquely referencing your comment about Bree,
there is no need to attack or personalise your attack on gaming journalists.
But like you I don’t have their take on what a MMORPG is. I try not to use swear words in my posts, call me old fashioned but that's me.
I don’t think it is possible to precisely define a MMORPG,
we have been here before many times on this site and disappeared down a rabbit
hole of semantics. Where I find posters like ourselves find common ground is
not in something like the exact number of players needed to call a game a MMO
but rather the gulf that lies between what was once a MMO and what games can
get that appellation today.
So posters here might suggest your numbers go up or down,
but when we are asked is Destiny or LoL a MMO we all say no! There is such a
huge difference in the setup, size and type of gameplay in these modern games
it is laughable they are called MMOs.
Actually there is a reason and you are being honestly ignorant. She personally attacked me on Reddit for correcting her articles about how Path of Exile, Destiny, World of Tanks and more were all NOT MMO's. She insulted me for knowing what MMO stands for and pointing out that she does not. She doesn't even play anymore (her own words) and hasn't for many years. Also, you do have her take on what an MMO is if you choose. She posted it on her own website many times. She is very clear that any game can be an MMO regardless of how many are in the game together. She even made an article about me in September 2019 on MassivelyOP but fails to mention I haven't posted on her site for over a year now. Hell, possibly two years.
Also, as I stated the absolute only subjective part about MMO (specifically MMO, not RPG) is the quantity of players it takes in order for it to be considered a massive amount. It's three words and your (not you specifically) failure to understand them does not make those that do understand them wrong. It also does't make the entire meaning subjective. Its a YOU (not you specifically) problem. MMORPG as a genre is very subjective as the RPG portion isn't exactly defined.
MMO only stands as a descriptor for the genre it is appended too. It servers no other purpose other than to describe that the game has a massive quantity of players in one shared reality. It does not stand for persistence, it does not stand for world size.
Also, not everyone on this site says no to Destiny or LoL being considered an MMO. In fact, Bill said there was an argument otherwise. Its in the above link.
From the article above:
"Bill Murphy: That's a lot of games, really. Guild Wars 1 comes to mind, but then even ArenaNet didn't call that game an MMO, so there's an argument there.
To me, if I must put a definition - it's any persistent online game that hosts thousands of players and lets them play together. Even MOBAs could be considered MMOs of a kind. But they're certainly not MMORPGs."
So please, don't try and be virtuous. I have been personally slandered by Bree, Bill has stated that he believes Moba's are MMOs, and I have been on this site since 2003 and have witnessed people calling ANYTHING an MMO including Team Fortress.
Just because somebody insults you does not mean you have to stoop to their level and that's talking as someone who as done just that. So I am not pretending I have always been able to be as calm on the internet as I would like, you just have to try.
Massive to me means world size, so we depart there, which is one of the reasons I would not include MOBA's. But the issue about the naming of MMO's is endemic in gaming today, game descriptors are just stuck on even when they are ill fitting. The idea seems to be better to give the game a name you know like "adventure game" rather than make something that fits, if the consumer does not instantly recognise what a game is they move on. That's the idea anyway I would like to think we had an attention span longer than a gold fish but they don't think we do.
So you have shown you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You didn't even read the link I provided where it is spelt out very clear from the guy who actually coined the descriptor.
First off, its not "Massive", its "Massively". So you're wrong already. Massively is used as its describing the multiple portion of multiplayer. You should look up the definition of "Massively" in particular. Its what we call an adverb. An adverb is a word that expresses a relation of the adjective, verb or other adverb. So basically expressing timing, speed, quantity. Massively is an adverb and stands for that purpose. So yeah, get the first word right if you want to properly discuss what an MMO means. You have no ground to stand on if you don't even know the first fucking word lol. You write in such a pompous manner that I really enjoy educating you on how english works.
Youre trying to imply that MMO (the initialism) stands for something other than MMO. It does not. So you are objectively wrong. Again, you need to learn the first word before we can even continue discussing this.
As per the article you didn't read:
"We felt that the term "Massively" was the key. So when people debate the applications of the term MMO to a variety of game types, I still believe that is the real differentiator. Persistence in your characters presence and growth was also clearly a part of our intention with the full "MMORPG"."
So what kind of mental gymnastics are you going to trying and pull now to make MMO stand for anything but Massively Multiplayer Online? Just going to dig in your heels and be ignorant to actually educating yourself? That's my vote. Because you ignorant types have been doing it for years.
Take an english clash and stop writing so cliche in an vain attempt to come off intelligent. Cause it doesn't work if you don't even know the basics of what you are discussing.
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
Is there a massive number of people at the Starbucks near my house? No. Is there a massive number of people at all the Starbucks in the world combined? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that when I am at Starbucks, I am not amongst a massive number of people.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Massively - A huge game world that has Multiplayer options that you can play with a massive amount of people online. Nowhere in the acronym MMO does it say you have to play all together at the same time or on the same screen. Just twisting a couple words and I gave it a totally different meaning. I can go on all day.
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
Is there a massive number of people at the Starbucks near my house? No. Is there a massive number of people at all the Starbucks in the world combined? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that when I am at Starbucks, I am not amongst a massive number of people.
Uh my starbucks have a massive line on a daily basis.
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
Is there a massive number of people at the Starbucks near my house? No. Is there a massive number of people at all the Starbucks in the world combined? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that when I am at Starbucks, I am not amongst a massive number of people.
Not really a great example. Your example would be more pertinent to a single player game. Thousands and thousands of people playing but you don't interact with them.
What developers and industry people seem to be leaning toward for "massive or massivley or whatever" is a large amount of people signing into the game where you have the chance to play with any one of those thousands of people.
People don't like it? Great. But developers, media, producers keep saying it. No skin off my nose, history has already shown us that words change, even drastically, from what they started off representing. Here, this might help
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I was obliquely referencing your comment about Bree,
there is no need to attack or personalise your attack on gaming journalists.
But like you I don’t have their take on what a MMORPG is. I try not to use swear words in my posts, call me old fashioned but that's me.
I don’t think it is possible to precisely define a MMORPG,
we have been here before many times on this site and disappeared down a rabbit
hole of semantics. Where I find posters like ourselves find common ground is
not in something like the exact number of players needed to call a game a MMO
but rather the gulf that lies between what was once a MMO and what games can
get that appellation today.
So posters here might suggest your numbers go up or down,
but when we are asked is Destiny or LoL a MMO we all say no! There is such a
huge difference in the setup, size and type of gameplay in these modern games
it is laughable they are called MMOs.
Actually there is a reason and you are being honestly ignorant. She personally attacked me on Reddit for correcting her articles about how Path of Exile, Destiny, World of Tanks and more were all NOT MMO's. She insulted me for knowing what MMO stands for and pointing out that she does not. She doesn't even play anymore (her own words) and hasn't for many years. Also, you do have her take on what an MMO is if you choose. She posted it on her own website many times. She is very clear that any game can be an MMO regardless of how many are in the game together. She even made an article about me in September 2019 on MassivelyOP but fails to mention I haven't posted on her site for over a year now. Hell, possibly two years.
Also, as I stated the absolute only subjective part about MMO (specifically MMO, not RPG) is the quantity of players it takes in order for it to be considered a massive amount. It's three words and your (not you specifically) failure to understand them does not make those that do understand them wrong. It also does't make the entire meaning subjective. Its a YOU (not you specifically) problem. MMORPG as a genre is very subjective as the RPG portion isn't exactly defined.
MMO only stands as a descriptor for the genre it is appended too. It servers no other purpose other than to describe that the game has a massive quantity of players in one shared reality. It does not stand for persistence, it does not stand for world size.
Also, not everyone on this site says no to Destiny or LoL being considered an MMO. In fact, Bill said there was an argument otherwise. Its in the above link.
From the article above:
"Bill Murphy: That's a lot of games, really. Guild Wars 1 comes to mind, but then even ArenaNet didn't call that game an MMO, so there's an argument there.
To me, if I must put a definition - it's any persistent online game that hosts thousands of players and lets them play together. Even MOBAs could be considered MMOs of a kind. But they're certainly not MMORPGs."
So please, don't try and be virtuous. I have been personally slandered by Bree, Bill has stated that he believes Moba's are MMOs, and I have been on this site since 2003 and have witnessed people calling ANYTHING an MMO including Team Fortress.
Just because somebody insults you does not mean you have to stoop to their level and that's talking as someone who as done just that. So I am not pretending I have always been able to be as calm on the internet as I would like, you just have to try.
Massive to me means world size, so we depart there, which is one of the reasons I would not include MOBA's. But the issue about the naming of MMO's is endemic in gaming today, game descriptors are just stuck on even when they are ill fitting. The idea seems to be better to give the game a name you know like "adventure game" rather than make something that fits, if the consumer does not instantly recognise what a game is they move on. That's the idea anyway I would like to think we had an attention span longer than a gold fish but they don't think we do.
So you have shown you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You didn't even read the link I provided where it is spelt out very clear from the guy who actually coined the descriptor.
First off, its not "Massive", its "Massively". So you're wrong already. Massively is used as its describing the multiple portion of multiplayer. You should look up the definition of "Massively" in particular. Its what we call an adverb. An adverb is a word that expresses a relation of the adjective, verb or other adverb. So basically expressing timing, speed, quantity. Massively is an adverb and stands for that purpose. So yeah, get the first word right if you want to properly discuss what an MMO means. You have no ground to stand on if you don't even know the first fucking word lol. You write in such a pompous manner that I really enjoy educating you on how english works.
Youre trying to imply that MMO (the initialism) stands for something other than MMO. It does not. So you are objectively wrong. Again, you need to learn the first word before we can even continue discussing this.
As per the article you didn't read:
"We felt that the term "Massively" was the key. So when people debate the applications of the term MMO to a variety of game types, I still believe that is the real differentiator. Persistence in your characters presence and growth was also clearly a part of our intention with the full "MMORPG"."
So what kind of mental gymnastics are you going to trying and pull now to make MMO stand for anything but Massively Multiplayer Online? Just going to dig in your heels and be ignorant to actually educating yourself? That's my vote. Because you ignorant types have been doing it for years.
Take an english clash and stop writing so cliche in an vain attempt to come off intelligent. Cause it doesn't work if you don't even know the basics of what you are discussing.
I like your writing, you are very smart. Good for you!
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Massively - A huge game world that has Multiplayer options that you can play with a massive amount of people online. Nowhere in the acronym MMO does it say you have to play all together at the same time or on the same screen. Just twisting a couple words and I gave it a totally different meaning. I can go on all day.
I'm sure you're the one that just don't get it.
Except that's not how the English language works, there are rules afterall though many don't believe so.
In its original form MMO represents these words, Massively Multiplayer Online.
Massively is an adverb, as such it can only modify verbs, adjectives or anything not a noun or pronoun.
We're in luck, in this case its modifying multiplayer, an adjective so all good.
What is it modifying? Online of course which is fine being another adjective in this case.
Now to simplify, let's just add the word game, a noun making it MMOG.
The correct way to resolve these words is to start at the noun and work our way backwards.
Game..WHAT kind of game? Online game, WHAT kind? Multiplayer, HOW many players? Massively multiplayer.
See, pretty simple right? Adjectives ask What questions, adverbs ask How, like how many or how slowly.
Now orginally this term referenced the number of players in the game world (or stuck in a server queue with you maybe) a person might interact with, be it 12 or 1000, regardless whether or not the technology actually well supported it.
So, 64 player shooter in a single world is not massively multiplayer by any reasonable thought process.
It is totally disingenuous to move the goalposts to try and claim just because a game can stand up 10000 of these instances it's a "MMO," just a fact no matter how many use incorrectly.
There might good reasons for words to evolve, but willful ignorance by the masses just isn't one of them, at least in my book.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So which of those three words has been altered so that a 16 player game like Destiny can be considered an MMO? Hmm?
Sorry I think you don't quite get it ...
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
So looking at an article, it seems that 226k people were playing Destiny 2 at one point. That is now the "massively" part.
A massive amount of people signing into the game; a massive amount of people that you might group with at any one time.
In my view you just moved the goal posts along with the words behind the original acronym and are talking about a completely different thing.
AOC will always be Age of Conan in gaming vernacular, but many use it (incorrectly by my view) for Ashes Creation, which I reject preferring to reference it as Ashes and Ashes of Apocalypse.
Now if the original AoC was long since closed and almost lost from memory it would be fine to repurpose it, but since this isn't the case all we've done is confuse everyone on what is being discussed.
A game like Destiny is probably more correctly called a MCORPG (Massively Cooperative Online game but MMO it just isn't.
Well unless of course now MMO means Minimally Multiplayer Online, which I'd buy except there's still the issue of confusion so probably not a good idea to change at this time considering how many valid examples of a MMO actually exist today.
TLDR version: you are just wrong about this Sovarth, no matter how many references you can point to of it being used incorrectly, especially since the "change" in meaning is by no means universally accepted.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Massively - A huge game world that has Multiplayer options that you can play with a massive amount of people online. Nowhere in the acronym MMO does it say you have to play all together at the same time or on the same screen. Just twisting a couple words and I gave it a totally different meaning. I can go on all day.
I'm sure you're the one that just don't get it.
Actually, that's what the word "multiplayer" means.
A game is only considered multiplayer when 2+ players are able to interact within the same virtual environment. The multiplayer part is literally all about how many people are within the same environment.
That is how player caps are calculated - Mario Kart 8 is 12player, because a maximum of 12 players can be within the same virtual environment to play together. The Division 2 is 12 player, because a maximum of 12 people can exist within the same virtual environment. SWTOR has a player cap of 75, because a maximum of 75 people can exist within the same virtual environment.
So, being massively multiplayer literally means having a "massive" amount of players within the same virtual environment. If we can interact with one another without changing environments (i.e. going through a loading screen) then we are part of the same environment and count towards the multiplayer cap. If we cannot interact with each other without going through a loading screen, then we aren't "multiplaying".
Now, what you set you minimum number as is indeed subjective. "Massively" is a comparative word, so you have to compare the game to all other multiplayer online games. What is the average, and what is the usual spread? Well, the usual spread is 2-128, the average is somewhere around 23 based on my calculations. So, what number is "massively" bigger than 128?
I personally use 500 as my minimum. Richard Garriott and Raph Koster chose 250 as their number 20 years ago, but I increased it as the average multiplayer numbers have increased. But, feel free to choose your own number, as long as you think it is massively bigger than 128.
But if the game's player cap is less than 128, then it is just regular multiplayer, nothing massively multiplayer about it.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
So which of those three words has been altered so that a 16 player game like Destiny can be considered an MMO? Hmm?
Sorry I think you don't quite get it ...
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
So looking at an article, it seems that 226k people were playing Destiny 2 at one point. That is now the "massively" part.
A massive amount of people signing into the game; a massive amount of people that you might group with at any one time.
In my view you just moved the goal posts along with the words behind the original acronym and are taking about a completely different thing.
AOC will always be Age of Conan in gaming vernacular, but many use it (incorrectly by my view) for Ashes Creation, which I reject preferring to reference it as Ashes and Ashes of Apocalypse.
Now if the original AoC was long since closed and almost lost from memory it would be fine to repurpose it, but since this isn't the case all we've done is confuse everyone on what is being discussed.
I didn't move anything. Others did.
And then "others" are freaking out.
Take it up with the developers, producers, media writers, even other players.
Of course, I also don't have a problme with "AoC" meaning different games. So maybe the issue is that there is a certain set of people who have a certain level of OCD about things and they have troubles dealing?
That would very much fit with a good amount of posts on this and other forums! Any slight deviation from what is expected and it's freak out time!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
Is there a massive number of people at the Starbucks near my house? No. Is there a massive number of people at all the Starbucks in the world combined? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that when I am at Starbucks, I am not amongst a massive number of people.
See now, you just raised a good point, 64 people in front of you at Starbucks could be considered a massive crowd, but for a MMO video game not so much.
But I'm thinking if you really were at the end off the line you might be massively pissed off...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
TLDR version: you are just wrong about this Sovarth, no matter how many references you can point to of it being used incorrectly, especially since the "change" in meaning is by no means universally accepted.
Well, only time will tell if "I'm wrong."
What's probably going to happen is that the term will change a lot and very few people will reference the original "mmorpg" very sparingly and then a small group of people who can't let go will rant and rave.
But I don't have to prove anything all I have to do, like you, is wait.
All I'm saying is that history has probably already shown us what's going to happen.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Massively - A huge game world that has Multiplayer options that you can play with a massive amount of people online. Nowhere in the acronym MMO does it say you have to play all together at the same time or on the same screen. Just twisting a couple words and I gave it a totally different meaning. I can go on all day.
I'm sure you're the one that just don't get it.
Except that's not how the English language works, there are rules afterall though many don't believe so.
In its original form MMO represents these words, Massively Multiplayer Online.
Massively is an adverb, as such it can only modify verbs, adjectives or anything not a noun or pronoun.
We're in luck, in this case its modifying multiplayer, an adjective so all good.
What is it modifying? Online of course which is fine being another adjective in this case.
Now to simplify, let's just add the word game, a noun making it MMOG.
The correct way to resolve these words is to start at the noun and work our way backwards.
Game..WHAT kind of game? Online game, WHAT kind? Multiplayer, HOW many players? Massively multiplayer.
See, pretty simple right? Adjectives ask What questions, adverbs ask How, like how many or how slowly.
Now orginally this term referenced the number of players in the game world (or stuck in a server queue with you maybe) a person might interact with, be it 12 or 1000, regardless whether or not the technology actually well supported it.
So, 64 player shooter in a single world is not massively multiplayer by any reasonable thought process.
It is totally disingenuous to move the goalposts to try and claim just because a game can stand up 10000 of these instances it's a "MMO," just a fact no matter how many use incorrectly.
There might good reasons for words to evolve, but willful ignorance by the masses just isn't one of them, at least in my book.
Damn it Kyleran why you have to make sense to me. LOL Appreciate the English lesson. Thank you.
I can still have conversations with the "Destiny 2 and WoW are an MMO/MMORPGs" people because them buying into my point of view isn't necessary for me. There are way worse things to argue over like predatory recurring monetization (subs, cash shops, loot crates, rmt) in games as a service.
I'm having this tattooed on my belly right NOW!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Massively - A huge game world that has Multiplayer options that you can play with a massive amount of people online. Nowhere in the acronym MMO does it say you have to play all together at the same time or on the same screen. Just twisting a couple words and I gave it a totally different meaning. I can go on all day.
I'm sure you're the one that just don't get it.
Actually, that's what the word "multiplayer" means.
A game is only considered multiplayer when 2+ players are able to interact within the same virtual environment. The multiplayer part is literally all about how many people are within the same environment.
That is how player caps are calculated - Mario Kart 8 is 12player, because a maximum of 12 players can be within the same virtual environment to play together. The Division 2 is 12 player, because a maximum of 12 people can exist within the same virtual environment. SWTOR has a player cap of 75, because a maximum of 75 people can exist within the same virtual environment.
So, being massively multiplayer literally means having a "massive" amount of players within the same virtual environment. If we can interact with one another without changing environments (i.e. going through a loading screen) then we are part of the same environment and count towards the multiplayer cap. If we cannot interact with each other without going through a loading screen, then we aren't "multiplaying".
Now, what you set you minimum number as is indeed subjective. "Massively" is a comparative word, so you have to compare the game to all other multiplayer online games. What is the average, and what is the usual spread? Well, the usual spread is 2-128, the average is somewhere around 23 based on my calculations. So, what number is "massively" bigger than 128?
I personally use 500 as my minimum. Richard Garriott and Raph Koster chose 250 as their number 20 years ago, but I increased it as the average multiplayer numbers have increased. But, feel free to choose your own number, as long as you think it is massively bigger than 128.
But if the game's player cap is less than 128, then it is just regular multiplayer, nothing massively multiplayer about it.
True mmorpgs were played on a dial up connection with 5,000 people at least on your server, and if more than 75 of them came anywhere near you, expect to disconnect.
So I'm not sure we can ever have another one. Just vestigial remnants of the ones that were.
Now we have have SPPOs (Some People Playing Online).
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
True mmorpgs were played on a dial up connection with 5,000 people at least on your server, and if more than 75 of them came anywhere near you, expect to disconnect.
So I'm not sure we can ever have another one. Just vestigial remnants of the ones that were.
Now we have have SPPOs (Some People Playing Online).
Why make stuff up? They didn't support 5k back then. Hell, UO Supported 500.
So which of those three words has been altered so that a 16 player game like Destiny can be considered an MMO? Hmm?
Sorry I think you don't quite get it ...
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
So looking at an article, it seems that 226k people were playing Destiny 2 at one point. That is now the "massively" part.
A massive amount of people signing into the game; a massive amount of people that you might group with at any one time.
You don't get it. MMO does not stand for "Massive". Please learn to read. The Massively part describes the multi part of multiplayer. Multiplayer means playing TOGETHER. Not in separate instances. You have no leg to stand on. You are wrong. The initialism has not changed. You are trying to create a new one, which is fine. But Massively Multiplayer Online still means Massively Multiplayer Online. None of the words have changed. They all mean the same thing they always have. They aren't slang, they havent changed with the times.
Massively - A huge game world that has Multiplayer options that you can play with a massive amount of people online. Nowhere in the acronym MMO does it say you have to play all together at the same time or on the same screen. Just twisting a couple words and I gave it a totally different meaning. I can go on all day.
I'm sure you're the one that just don't get it.
Actually, that's what the word "multiplayer" means.
A game is only considered multiplayer when 2+ players are able to interact within the same virtual environment. The multiplayer part is literally all about how many people are within the same environment.
That is how player caps are calculated - Mario Kart 8 is 12player, because a maximum of 12 players can be within the same virtual environment to play together. The Division 2 is 12 player, because a maximum of 12 people can exist within the same virtual environment. SWTOR has a player cap of 75, because a maximum of 75 people can exist within the same virtual environment.
So, being massively multiplayer literally means having a "massive" amount of players within the same virtual environment. If we can interact with one another without changing environments (i.e. going through a loading screen) then we are part of the same environment and count towards the multiplayer cap. If we cannot interact with each other without going through a loading screen, then we aren't "multiplaying".
Now, what you set you minimum number as is indeed subjective. "Massively" is a comparative word, so you have to compare the game to all other multiplayer online games. What is the average, and what is the usual spread? Well, the usual spread is 2-128, the average is somewhere around 23 based on my calculations. So, what number is "massively" bigger than 128?
I personally use 500 as my minimum. Richard Garriott and Raph Koster chose 250 as their number 20 years ago, but I increased it as the average multiplayer numbers have increased. But, feel free to choose your own number, as long as you think it is massively bigger than 128.
But if the game's player cap is less than 128, then it is just regular multiplayer, nothing massively multiplayer about it.
I am so happy that people get it. Its fun to see you and others try to educate someone who clearly has a weak grasp of the english language (though they write with a pompous attitude which isn't backed up by knowledge). I too set my minimum as 500 people. Its still WAY more than the average multiplayer game.
Where I think things get wishy-washy is when you change genres. Maybe some games such as an MMORTS don't require 500 to be massive since even 16 is a lot of people. Know what I mean? But thats a whole other topic.
Comments
Would you care to tell me which of the following words have changed meaning and how you would interpret those new meanings/definition to make it stand for 16 players?
1 Massive (massively in this usage as it is currently describing the multi portion of multiplayer)
2 Multiplayer (multiple players)
3 Online
So which of those three words has been altered so that a 16 player game like Destiny can be considered an MMO? Hmm?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
the "16 player game" is not in and of itself "massive." the Fact that thousands upon thousands interface with with the game concurrently is now "Massive."
So looking at an article, it seems that 226k people were playing Destiny 2 at one point. That is now the "massively" part.
A massive amount of people signing into the game; a massive amount of people that you might group with at any one time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
First off, its not "Massive", its "Massively". So you're wrong already. Massively is used as its describing the multiple portion of multiplayer. You should look up the definition of "Massively" in particular. Its what we call an adverb. An adverb is a word that expresses a relation of the adjective, verb or other adverb. So basically expressing timing, speed, quantity. Massively is an adverb and stands for that purpose. So yeah, get the first word right if you want to properly discuss what an MMO means. You have no ground to stand on if you don't even know the first fucking word lol. You write in such a pompous manner that I really enjoy educating you on how english works.
Youre trying to imply that MMO (the initialism) stands for something other than MMO. It does not. So you are objectively wrong. Again, you need to learn the first word before we can even continue discussing this.
As per the article you didn't read:
"We felt that the term "Massively" was the key. So when people debate the applications of the term MMO to a variety of game types, I still believe that is the real differentiator. Persistence in your characters presence and growth was also clearly a part of our intention with the full "MMORPG"."
So what kind of mental gymnastics are you going to trying and pull now to make MMO stand for anything but Massively Multiplayer Online? Just going to dig in your heels and be ignorant to actually educating yourself? That's my vote. Because you ignorant types have been doing it for years.
Take an english clash and stop writing so cliche in an vain attempt to come off intelligent. Cause it doesn't work if you don't even know the basics of what you are discussing.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I'm sure you're the one that just don't get it.
What developers and industry people seem to be leaning toward for "massive or massivley or whatever" is a large amount of people signing into the game where you have the chance to play with any one of those thousands of people.
People don't like it? Great. But developers, media, producers keep saying it. No skin off my nose, history has already shown us that words change, even drastically, from what they started off representing. Here, this might help
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
In its original form MMO represents these words, Massively Multiplayer Online.
Massively is an adverb, as such it can only modify verbs, adjectives or anything not a noun or pronoun.
We're in luck, in this case its modifying multiplayer, an adjective so all good.
What is it modifying? Online of course which is fine being another adjective in this case.
Now to simplify, let's just add the word game, a noun making it MMOG.
The correct way to resolve these words is to start at the noun and work our way backwards.
Game..WHAT kind of game?
Online game, WHAT kind?
Multiplayer, HOW many players?
Massively multiplayer.
See, pretty simple right? Adjectives ask What questions, adverbs ask How, like how many or how slowly.
Now orginally this term referenced the number of players in the game world (or stuck in a server queue with you maybe) a person might interact with, be it 12 or 1000, regardless whether or not the technology actually well supported it.
So, 64 player shooter in a single world is not massively multiplayer by any reasonable thought process.
It is totally disingenuous to move the goalposts to try and claim just because a game can stand up 10000 of these instances it's a "MMO," just a fact no matter how many use incorrectly.
There might good reasons for words to evolve, but willful ignorance by the masses just isn't one of them, at least in my book.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
AOC will always be Age of Conan in gaming vernacular, but many use it (incorrectly by my view) for Ashes Creation, which I reject preferring to reference it as Ashes and Ashes of Apocalypse.
Now if the original AoC was long since closed and almost lost from memory it would be fine to repurpose it, but since this isn't the case all we've done is confuse everyone on what is being discussed.
A game like Destiny is probably more correctly called a MCORPG (Massively Cooperative Online game but MMO it just isn't.
Well unless of course now MMO means Minimally Multiplayer Online, which I'd buy except there's still the issue of confusion so probably not a good idea to change at this time considering how many valid examples of a MMO actually exist today.
TLDR version: you are just wrong about this Sovarth, no matter how many references you can point to of it being used incorrectly, especially since the "change" in meaning is by no means universally accepted.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And then "others" are freaking out.
Take it up with the developers, producers, media writers, even other players.
Of course, I also don't have a problme with "AoC" meaning different games. So maybe the issue is that there is a certain set of people who have a certain level of OCD about things and they have troubles dealing?
That would very much fit with a good amount of posts on this and other forums! Any slight deviation from what is expected and it's freak out time!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But I'm thinking if you really were at the end off the line you might be massively pissed off...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's probably going to happen is that the term will change a lot and very few people will reference the original "mmorpg" very sparingly and then a small group of people who can't let go will rant and rave.
But I don't have to prove anything all I have to do, like you, is wait.
All I'm saying is that history has probably already shown us what's going to happen.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'll bow out now, I have nothing more to say.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So I'm not sure we can ever have another one. Just vestigial remnants of the ones that were.
Now we have have SPPOs (Some People Playing Online).
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Again, you are wrong. I am completely correct.
Where I think things get wishy-washy is when you change genres. Maybe some games such as an MMORTS don't require 500 to be massive since even 16 is a lot of people. Know what I mean? But thats a whole other topic.