Originally posted by flea1 this is a discussion on uo. I see many here just attacking the concept of pvp. Dont you have non pvp games with boards to post on ???
Apparently you either haven't bothered to read the thread OR you do not understand. The concept of PvP (particularly as it applied to old UO days) IS what is the primary focus of the discussion as started by the original poster. He did NOT mention (nor was there any evidence of his desire to discuss) the mob spawning in UO vs other games. When old school UOers start a thread about the "good old days" of UO - they MEAN (even if they do not specifically state so) the "good old days" when PvPers and PKers were able to rape, rampage, murder and steal from other players - thus that is why this is being discussed.
Originally posted by Gamewize How about this. How about we take a game, put a giant continenant in it, make 2 player sides, make an NPC side (for PvE) Make a FFA area in the middle where anything goes, where the monsters drop the best stuff where every vies for them, Make "safe zones" where people who dotn want to PvP can PvE safely, and make everywhere outside these zones a Faction vs Faction warzone. They would satisfy just about everybody. -OR- Just put in some safe PvE zones and make everywhere else a FFA area. Btw Razorback, I was trying to say that most people want to PvP when they want to . But yes, I think you people deserve at least 1 total FFA PvP game.
I think PvE zones to level up are the best idea really. DAoC did this rather well, so you could level up to basically 30ish without really having to leave the safe zones... but again it got rather boring... and even thought I tended to get ganked a lot I found myself out hunting elf and firbolg types with my Huntress in my 20's. It was very satisfying to take players higher than you by surprises in their home zones with such a low character and made the many deaths and having to walk all the way back again (1 hour plus if you lived) usually worth it.... Till they nerfed Archery of course
Originally posted by Blittzz Fan Fact! The average "hardcore" players IQ 32!
About 5 points higher than the average whiner.... but we make up for it by having testicles... ever wondered why your voice was so high pitched ?
hey tiger, settle down, it was just a joke. so instead of attacking me personally, why dont you learn to relax and take a joke once and awhile
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Originally posted by Blittzz Why is it that people who dont enjoy getting gangbanged by 5 people 30 lvls higher then you are called carebares? People who enjoy having PvP with a plot to it, not pointless murder everywhere and considered pansies. But people who are hell bent on making other people time on a game suck are considered hardcore or l33t. What is so hardcore about it? ITS A GAME. your not hardcore. your not even the same zip code as hardcore. your a pasty nerd with little or no life. you people play 24/7 getting the best equipment and maxing out their chars just so they can repeatedly kill a person that has just started the game. are you releasing anger or are you just that much of an ass. Fan Fact! The average "hardcore" players IQ 32!
I couldn't have said it better myself Stupid pasty nerds
Got to ask how much of an IQ does it take to read the box the game comes in. How much IQ would it take, i ask to check out the games web site.
Nope you show your IQ by comming to a forum and spit insults and cry and throw a tantrum about how some person bested you in a game. Thought it was Just a game.
Cry more
If you cant handle it dont play it. Grow a pair. You come to sites like these and just cry and cry and cry more.
I mean us older gamers find it really funny at times but i mean, damn dont you think a bucket of runny nose goo and a river of tears is a little much.
I thought it was just a game?
That is common sense. I think the result stems from too much Nintendo and not enough PC gaming exp.
Pking and open pvping where going on since the old old mud days.
tag Carebears are for peoples like you that run off to these forum type boards and form your poor me conventions about how you got owned by someone cause your gaming skill sucks.
Only Carebears care.
no, i just dont like being molested in a game which i pay for to have fun with, not get repeatedly "owned" by some 12 year old. now with the IQ thing, IT WAS A JOKE. jeez, learn to relax and take a joke every now and then, dont take everything so seriously. and i was never throwning a tantrum. if you would acually read it and not go straight to the IQ joke,i was acually stating the truth. you people sit on all day just to get the best stuff, so you can kill everything in your path and make new people time on the game a living hell. and your basically stereotyping saying that i cry when i get killed. no i dont. i get pissed sometimes, but i dont cry. your the one who crys when you die, becuase you thought your were the baddest mofo in the game, then someone comes up and kills you. YOUR the carebears. your the people who log out right when someone is about to kill you. your the people who trashtalk people WHEN THEYRE DEAD just so they wont attack you. also, i dont mind being bested in a game. i know there is always someone stronger then me. i know i will never be the best in a game. and MMO's dont require skill. its all "im a higher level then you i win" or "my stuff is better i kill you". if you want a real debate, tell me when your ready. but attacking me personally isnt a debate.
Edit: sry about the double post
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Originally posted by Blittzz Originally posted by Wardrop Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Blittzz Why is it that people who dont enjoy getting gangbanged by 5 people 30 lvls higher then you are called carebares? People who enjoy having PvP with a plot to it, not pointless murder everywhere and considered pansies. But people who are hell bent on making other people time on a game suck are considered hardcore or l33t. What is so hardcore about it? ITS A GAME. your not hardcore. your not even the same zip code as hardcore. your a pasty nerd with little or no life. you people play 24/7 getting the best equipment and maxing out their chars just so they can repeatedly kill a person that has just started the game. are you releasing anger or are you just that much of an ass. Fan Fact! The average "hardcore" players IQ 32!I couldn't have said it better myself Stupid pasty nerds Got to ask how much of an IQ does it take to read the box the game comes in. How much IQ would it take, i ask to check out the games web site. Nope you show your IQ by comming to a forum and spit insults and cry and throw a tantrum about how some person bested you in a game. Thought it was Just a game. Cry more If you cant handle it dont play it. Grow a pair. You come to sites like these and just cry and cry and cry more. I mean us older gamers find it really funny at times but i mean, damn dont you think a bucket of runny nose goo and a river of tears is a little much. I thought it was just a game?
That is common sense. I think the result stems from too much Nintendo and not enough PC gaming exp. Pking and open pvping where going on since the old old mud days. tag Carebears are for peoples like you that run off to these forum type boards and form your poor me conventions about how you got owned by someone cause your gaming skill sucks. Only Carebears care.
no, i just dont like being molested in a game which i pay for to have fun with, not get repeatedly "owned" by some 12 year old. now with the IQ thing, IT WAS A JOKE. jeez, learn to relax and take a joke every now and then, dont take everything so seriously. and i was never throwning a tantrum. if you would acually read it and not go straight to the IQ joke,i was acually stating the truth. you people sit on all day just to get the best stuff, so you can kill everything in your path and make new people time on the game a living hell. and your basically stereotyping saying that i cry when i get killed. no i dont. i get pissed sometimes, but i dont cry. your the one who crys when you die, becuase you thought your were the baddest mofo in the game, then someone comes up and kills you. YOUR the carebears. your the people who log out right when someone is about to kill you. your the people who trashtalk people WHEN THEYRE DEAD just so they wont attack you. also, i dont mind being bested in a game. i know there is always someone stronger then me. i know i will never be the best in a game. and MMO's dont require skill. its all "im a higher level then you i win" or "my stuff is better i kill you". if you want a real debate, tell me when your ready. but attacking me personally isnt a debate. Edit: sry about the double post
UO pvp has nothing to do with levels(since there are not levels) and there were no uber items. You are thinking of carebear games that have levels and items determine the winner and those are by no means a real pvp game. If you really want to get rid of PKs instead of whining to developers to change a great game you could just not appease them by not acting mad. Don't go back to them and say "you are a ******* *** with no more intelligence than a retarded monkey. That just makes me laugh. You shouldn't take them as personal attacks. It is just a friendly competition in a game. If you arn't having fun then it is probably not the game for you. If you go and play baseball and don't have fun then don't play it. Just don't go whine to developers to change a game and ruin the fun of others, you are the real griefers. Destroying great games, go play consoles.
actually true old uo pvpers where kind about it unless you pissed them off. sure keep rez killing but when you didnt fight back thats how i made my friends that way thatwhere hella cool.
but those days are long long gone
see the original poster doesnt take me as a kind pvper so he could sit and spin for all i care. theres no code in being a pvper anymore the originals where the best.
I have never met a Pker who did not shut the hell up when he supposedly made a "1337 kill" after wiping out a noob. You want to PvP with complete loot? Grand, do it with the others who want to, those who dont want to PvP should have a small space of protection as ive said. I could express my hate to the word carebear with an all out flame, but seeing as how that would do nothing good, im going to refrain. You PvPers play games how you want to, and yet you still go "bitch bitch bitch" on how others play a game. So why dont you stop YOUR whining for a change?
Edit: And yes, if someone wandered into such a game without a protection zone and FFA PvP, but still gets bashed on for making a mistake, you could try kindly telling them that without the labels of Carebear or other crap.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Man, this thread is filled with carebears that it spills out. I rarely call people carebears, but after reading all this whining about open PvP, it made me boil. Look, if you got OMGWTFPWNED in open pvp game, don't blame it on others, blame it on yourself for a) being a newnblet, b) choosing a game which obviously promotes a game style not suitable for you, or c) both. If you can't handle open pvp, don't play it. There is a huge division between MMORPG players who are either hardcore open pvpers, or those who hate open PvP. Just because you don't like open pvp, it doesn't mean you have to cry about it.
Just because I PK you, it makes me a prick? griefer? No, it means I'm utilizing a game feature which allows me to attack anyone at any given moment of the game.
Don't like it, can't handle it, don't play it.
As for original poster, I'd suggest monitoring DarkFall. It has been in development since a while, but if it does come out, it'll provide everything you would wish for as PvPer. Open loot, Open PvP, Sieges, Skill Based, etc.
www.DarkFallOnline.com
Rest of you, go play WoW or EQ, you won't have to worry about loosing your pixels and you'll be able to RP each other to death.
Originally posted by HolyCircle Man, this thread is filled with carebears that it spills out. I rarely call people carebears, but after reading all this whining about open PvP, it made me boil. Look, if you got OMGWTFPWNED in open pvp game, don't blame it on others, blame it on yourself for a) being a newnblet, b) choosing a game which obviously promotes a game style not suitable for you, or c) both. If you can't handle open pvp, don't play it. There is a huge division between MMORPG players who are either hardcore open pvpers, or those who hate open PvP. Just because you don't like open pvp, it doesn't mean you have to cry about it. Just because I PK you, it makes me a prick? griefer? No, it means I'm utilizing a game feature which allows me to attack anyone at any given moment of the game. Don't like it, can't handle it, don't play it. As for original poster, I'd suggest monitoring DarkFall. It has been in development since a while, but if it does come out, it'll provide everything you would wish for as PvPer. Open loot, Open PvP, Sieges, Skill Based, etc. www.DarkFallOnline.com Rest of you, go play WoW or EQ, you won't have to worry about loosing your pixels and you'll be able to RP each other to death.
And you have demonstrated that you havnt understood a SINGLE thing most of us so called "Carebears" have said.
You dont like us? Practice what you preach. What if we actually DO want some FFA PvP but dont want to PvP for a little? What if we want a small break in game to do other things? Does that make us carebears? I am disgusted the way people are so hasty to slap labels on people who share different views.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Gamewize Originally posted by HolyCircle Man, this thread is filled with carebears that it spills out. I rarely call people carebears, but after reading all this whining about open PvP, it made me boil. Look, if you got OMGWTFPWNED in open pvp game, don't blame it on others, blame it on yourself for a) being a newnblet, b) choosing a game which obviously promotes a game style not suitable for you, or c) both. If you can't handle open pvp, don't play it. There is a huge division between MMORPG players who are either hardcore open pvpers, or those who hate open PvP. Just because you don't like open pvp, it doesn't mean you have to cry about it. Just because I PK you, it makes me a prick? griefer? No, it means I'm utilizing a game feature which allows me to attack anyone at any given moment of the game. Don't like it, can't handle it, don't play it. As for original poster, I'd suggest monitoring DarkFall. It has been in development since a while, but if it does come out, it'll provide everything you would wish for as PvPer. Open loot, Open PvP, Sieges, Skill Based, etc. www.DarkFallOnline.com Rest of you, go play WoW or EQ, you won't have to worry about loosing your pixels and you'll be able to RP each other to death. And you have demonstrated that you havnt understood a SINGLE thing most of us so called "Carebears" have said. You dont like us? Practice what you preach. What if we actually DO want some FFA PvP but dont want to PvP for a little? What if we want a small break in game to do other things? Does that make us carebears? I am disgusted the way people are so hasty to slap labels on people who share different views.
If you made sense, I might like you, but you don't, as must of "carebears". How in the hell can you have Open PvP, and be able to "take a break to do other things", which basically means be immune from open PvP. It's a condradiction my friend! If you allow those who do not wish to PvP for reason or another be able to become "immune" to Open PvP environment, then it's NOT open PvP.
There are games for players like you. You have EQ, WoW, etc, where you can PvP if you choose to, and do your own thing if you don't want to. I don't see YOUR and the rest of "OMG Open PvP Sucks for Me" community.
Original poster, along with many Hardcore PvPers, want a game which gives us completely open PvP enviroment. Does it bother you so much? Does it affact you? Does anyone force you to play it? NO! You have a variety of games to choose from to play the game style you prefer, which is awsome, but many of us DON'T.
It's funny how so many people call Hardcore PvPers (That's how I call Open PvP promoters) punks, griefers, jerks, etc, but they don't seem to understand that those so called "jerks" simple practice a feature a game provides. Now, when a carebear cries out when he gets pked, although he can stay in his "PvP free enviornment" it's ok, but when a so called "jerk" simply complains about lack of games with open PvP enviroment, it's offensive for so called "carebears".
To the point, you got your games where you can PvP and do "other" things without worrying about other players, but WE, Open Environment PvP gamers DON'T have games to enjoy what we like.
So, how about you take your hypocrisy and ignorance to an obvious matter within your games. You are obviously so full of yourself and your game style that you don't see that there might be gamers, who are not necessarly jerks, who enjoy different game styles, but can't play them due to lack of games.
Talking about being disgusted with those who label others with different opinions.
Yes, my friend, OTHER things. What im getting from what you say its a "contradiction" is that to you an open pvp game has ONLY open PvP, something that is bound to get boring fast. Since it doesnt seem anyone fully understands what we "carebears" are trying to get across without being subsequently labled, im going to pretty much ignore this thread now.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Gamewize Yes, my friend, OTHER things. What im getting from what you say its a "contradiction" is that to you an open pvp game has ONLY open PvP, something that is bound to get boring fast. Since it doesnt seem anyone fully understands what we "carebears" are trying to get across without being subsequently labled, im going to pretty much ignore this thread now.
I'm glad you are going to ignore it, since it doesn't have much to do with you, since YOU have a GAME to PLAY which provides your game style. Once again, WE DON'T have such a game.
Oh, and it's ok to call us "griefers", right?
I don't mind quests, etc in open pvp game, that's why I'm looking for DF, which will provide everything, but I do mind not being able to attack someone when he's questing, that's limiting PvP. If someone attacks me while I'm questing, oh well, tough shit, I'll fight back and quest later.
Originally posted by Blittzz Why is it that people who dont enjoy getting gangbanged by 5 people 30 lvls higher then you are called carebares? People who enjoy having PvP with a plot to it, not pointless murder everywhere and considered pansies. But people who are hell bent on making other people time on a game suck are considered hardcore or l33t. What is so hardcore about it? ITS A GAME. your not hardcore. your not even the same zip code as hardcore. your a pasty nerd with little or no life. you people play 24/7 getting the best equipment and maxing out their chars just so they can repeatedly kill a person that has just started the game. are you releasing anger or are you just that much of an ass. Fan Fact! The average "hardcore" players IQ 32! I couldn't have said it better myself Stupid pasty nerds
Got to ask how much of an IQ does it take to read the box the game comes in. How much IQ would it take, i ask to check out the games web site. Nope you show your IQ by comming to a forum and spit insults and cry and throw a tantrum about how some person bested you in a game. Thought it was Just a game. Cry more If you cant handle it dont play it. Grow a pair. You come to sites like these and just cry and cry and cry more. I mean us older gamers find it really funny at times but i mean, damn dont you think a bucket of runny nose goo and a river of tears is a little much. I thought it was just a game?
That is common sense. I think the result stems from too much Nintendo and not enough PC gaming exp. Pking and open pvping where going on since the old old mud days. tag Carebears are for peoples like you that run off to these forum type boards and form your poor me conventions about how you got owned by someone cause your gaming skill sucks. Only Carebears care.
no, i just dont like being molested in a game which i pay for to have fun with, not get repeatedly "owned" by some 12 year old. now with the IQ thing, IT WAS A JOKE. jeez, learn to relax and take a joke every now and then, dont take everything so seriously. and i was never throwning a tantrum. if you would acually read it and not go straight to the IQ joke,i was acually stating the truth. you people sit on all day just to get the best stuff, so you can kill everything in your path and make new people time on the game a living hell. and your basically stereotyping saying that i cry when i get killed. no i dont. i get pissed sometimes, but i dont cry. your the one who crys when you die, becuase you thought your were the baddest mofo in the game, then someone comes up and kills you. YOUR the carebears. your the people who log out right when someone is about to kill you. your the people who trashtalk people WHEN THEYRE DEAD just so they wont attack you. also, i dont mind being bested in a game. i know there is always someone stronger then me. i know i will never be the best in a game. and MMO's dont require skill. its all "im a higher level then you i win" or "my stuff is better i kill you". if you want a real debate, tell me when your ready. but attacking me personally isnt a debate. Edit: sry about the double post
UO pvp has nothing to do with levels(since there are not levels) and there were no uber items. You are thinking of carebear games that have levels and items determine the winner and those are by no means a real pvp game. If you really want to get rid of PKs instead of whining to developers to change a great game you could just not appease them by not acting mad. Don't go back to them and say "you are a ******* *** with no more intelligence than a retarded monkey. That just makes me laugh. You shouldn't take them as personal attacks. It is just a friendly competition in a game. If you arn't having fun then it is probably not the game for you. If you go and play baseball and don't have fun then don't play it. Just don't go whine to developers to change a game and ruin the fun of others, you are the real griefers. Destroying great games, go play consoles.
Ahh, another idiot that will defend his game untill death. yes by all means, every game on the market is carebear! L2 is a pussies game! jeez, stfu, you sound like an idiot going around calling everything carebear and you hardcore. We dont whine to devs just because we get killed. we dont mind being killed several times. but being ganked 73 times in a row just trying to get to another part of town is just idiotic. the devs saw the game was going downhill with all the mindless murder and noob gankers, and changed it. And you make me laugh. you kept saying we whined and complained untill we got our way like 5 year olds. way to stereotype the shit out of that one! your the godamn whiners. whenever you die on a game you throw a tantrum and log out. i knew some guy that kept attacking me, but when i about killed him, he logged out. and btw, they were personal attacks, read them more carefully. and we dont destroy good games, you do, you make the game a living hell, while we PAID to have fun. i know you dont grasp the fact that we had to PAY, because your daddy was paying it for you. move on, just please move on, its done, and its over with
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
There are no games like that, because NO ONE LIKES THEM. Believe me, if there was a market for this ill-conceived PVP concept there would be games like this. You just can't handle the fact that you like silly games, and no one else does.
Their is hope in sight. I totally see where you are coming from, being a former UO players from years back. I very much miss the all or nothing PvP approach done originally in UO. Their is hope in sight with games like Dark and Light and and Darkfall coming down the road. Although, Darkfall is a long way off. Here is a good FAQ on Dark and Light if interested. It makes a good read for the former UO players.
I feel your pain dude. I am a age old UO player myself and I miss the intense PvP action that once domniated this whole genre. I think their is hope in site with Dark and Light and Darkfall, both of which promise some awesome new concepts and a PvP environment that would appeal to most of those former UO players.
"To the point, you got your games where you can PvP and do "other" things without worrying about other players, but WE, Open Environment PvP gamers DON'T have games to enjoy what we like."
Sure you do. Every FPS ever made. PvP AND Twitch! What more could you want?
"I feel your pain dude. I am a age old UO player myself and I miss the intense PvP action that once domniated this whole genre. I think their is hope in site with Dark and Light and Darkfall, both of which promise some awesome new concepts and a PvP environment that would appeal to most of those former UO players."
So you're on Siege Perilous now? That's your old-style UO. How come it's so lightly populated if there are so many of you out there? I think that's one of the more telling indicators for MMO producers. If there's such a large open-PvP market, why is nobody on Siege Perilous? It's because the vast majority of open-PvPers aren't really playing RPGs, but shooters, where the whole POINT of the game is to PvP.
Following hard on the Open-PvP debate is, of course, the skills-and-items-rule-PvP debate. I think they stand quite nicely for what's been developing: two different genres. The "RPG" for skills-and-items, limited/controlled-PvP and the "FPS" for "twitch" and Open-PvP. I feel that Open-PvP advocates would be better served by attempting to get the FPS producers to create more interesting environments for play, rather than getting RPG producers to alienate a large protion of their defined market.
-- Xix "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
Originally posted by brostyn There are no games like that, because NO ONE LIKES THEM. Believe me, if there was a market for this ill-conceived PVP concept there would be games like this. You just can't handle the fact that you like silly games, and no one else does.
Funny, because Pre-UO:R is still BEST MMORPG EVER MADE, not according to only PvPers, but majority of MMORPG community. Guess what original UO had... Open PvP!
You just can't handle the fact that your ego is so huge that you can't comprehand idea that other's might like different game styles than you. Go back storing your pixels and questing yourself to death. Oh boy, wouldn't it suck to loose your game pixels to another player! Right? If stupidity hurt you'd be on morphine.
Originally posted by Xix13 "To the point, you got your games where you can PvP and do "other" things without worrying about other players, but WE, Open Environment PvP gamers DON'T have games to enjoy what we like."Sure you do. Every FPS ever made. PvP AND Twitch! What more could you want?"I feel your pain dude. I am a age old UO player myself and I miss the intense PvP action that once domniated this whole genre. I think their is hope in site with Dark and Light and Darkfall, both of which promise some awesome new concepts and a PvP environment that would appeal to most of those former UO players."So you're on Siege Perilous now? That's your old-style UO. How come it's so lightly populated if there are so many of you out there? I think that's one of the more telling indicators for MMO producers. If there's such a large open-PvP market, why is nobody on Siege Perilous? It's because the vast majority of open-PvPers aren't really playing RPGs, but shooters, where the whole POINT of the game is to PvP.Following hard on the Open-PvP debate is, of course, the skills-and-items-rule-PvP debate. I think they stand quite nicely for what's been developing: two different genres. The "RPG" for skills-and-items, limited/controlled-PvP and the "FPS" for "twitch" and Open-PvP. I feel that Open-PvP advocates would be better served by attempting to get the FPS producers to create more interesting environments for play, rather than getting RPG producers to alienate a large protion of their defined market.
FPS games have 0 to do with Open PvP MMORPGs. If I wanted to go on a server for 20min to do same map over and over to be #1 on the server for each round, I'd play FPS. If I wanted to be able to play in a 24h world, develop my character and twitch it to be better than others and at the same time practice my skills to be best at PvP, along with enjoying in-depth server Politics, Sieges, Raids, City Development, and Guilds/Clans, and at the same time be able to attack anyone at any given moment, I'd play PvP MMORPG. If you can't see difference, you are blind.
Originally posted by Xix13 "To the point, you got your games where you can PvP and do "other" things without worrying about other players, but WE, Open Environment PvP gamers DON'T have games to enjoy what we like."Sure you do. Every FPS ever made. PvP AND Twitch! What more could you want?"I feel your pain dude. I am a age old UO player myself and I miss the intense PvP action that once domniated this whole genre. I think their is hope in site with Dark and Light and Darkfall, both of which promise some awesome new concepts and a PvP environment that would appeal to most of those former UO players."So you're on Siege Perilous now? That's your old-style UO. How come it's so lightly populated if there are so many of you out there? I think that's one of the more telling indicators for MMO producers. If there's such a large open-PvP market, why is nobody on Siege Perilous? It's because the vast majority of open-PvPers aren't really playing RPGs, but shooters, where the whole POINT of the game is to PvP.Following hard on the Open-PvP debate is, of course, the skills-and-items-rule-PvP debate. I think they stand quite nicely for what's been developing: two different genres. The "RPG" for skills-and-items, limited/controlled-PvP and the "FPS" for "twitch" and Open-PvP. I feel that Open-PvP advocates would be better served by attempting to get the FPS producers to create more interesting environments for play, rather than getting RPG producers to alienate a large protion of their defined market.
Have you even played UO lately? Siege Perilous is not old style UO. It has fel rules but, that is it. It is just AOS crap without insurance. The reason UO is not populated today is because its' graphics are way behind the times. They were behind the times when it came out. The real gamers don't look at graphics so there were still some but, still some non-gamers. They whined about getting killed by PKs who had real skill. They changed UO to make it so newbs could stand more of a chance against the best. At this point many many pvpers left the game. Every time they have changed it more people have left and it has brought in few new ones because of the dated graphics. They see the loss of accounts and then see on the boards the people who compain about getting killed and think that is the problem. Some remained and new pvpers(the previous whiners) took over. New players came and got roxxored by the pvpers so they whined. They changed the game to give people with no skill even more of a chance at winning. The pvpers left but, few remained. The new newbs took over as pvpers. This goes on and on and is still going on. Now though the graphics are such a huge amount behind even the newbs are leaving it. The people they tried so hard to please are leaving. All they really needed to do was upgrade the graphics every year to make the newbs happy. Every major pvp game I can think of had graphics behind the times because rarely will big companies listen to players. And if you are going to say that is not true people just didn't like getting killed. Why play mindlessly fight monsters in 2d when you can fight them in 3d? Well instead of making new games all they do is make the same old EQ clones shinier and sell them and people buy them because they think all games are EQ clones. If anything was a problem with UO it was the graphics. They have made UO into and EQ clone with items/amount of time played decide the winner. What still not lots of players playing it, hmm maybe they will realize it was the graphics not the mechanics that needed changed. Since every change they made lost more people it is clear it is clear that mechanics was not the real problem. I was one of the few PvPers who stayed all the way until AOS and left because it was a huge leap toward EQ clones. In my time everytime a major change would come out it was the pvpers who left and the same newbs that whined were still there until they realized there were other MMORPG's with better graphics.
I don't doubt that there is a niche market for Open-PvP MMORPGs. But great graphics MMOs require lots of money to develop, and I just don't think the market for Open-PvP MMORPFs is big enough for the companies that have the money to do the great graphics. And I don't think the Open-PvP market is big enough to interest the companies that DO have the money for the great graphics. You state that the FPS is just repetitive maps for 20 minutes. That's my point. Get the FPS producers to create persistent worlds for you to PvP IN. The RPG producers aren't going to alienate a large portion of their market by creating completely Open-PvP games. There's too much of an economic investment in the whole RPG environment.
Wasn't UO2 (or UXO or whatever it was supposed to be called) supposed to be based on the Unreal Engine?
I think one answer should be open-PvP areas within RPGs with purposes and rewards for people going into them beyond just PvP. Some games have tried this and failed miserably (SWG, for example. And if you don't like the Fel rules, then I guess you'd count that as a failure too). I believe some upcoming games will be looking at open-PvP central areas where factions/races will fight. But I don't think you'll see a completely open-PvP MMORPG with great graphics because the market simply isn't big enough to support the expense of creating it.
There's other problems I think. You say you want Open-PvP but with player cities, politics, and all the other trappings of the MMO. OK. Then, in this kind of completely open-PvP, can I blow up your house when you're not home? Can I pick the locks on your doors while you're off-line and go in and steal your stuf? Disable your security system with my Level 75 Hacker and steal your stuf? Traditionally, houses have been offlimits for PvPing (except for UO, if you forgot to lock up your stuf) and stealing. But in a completely open-PvP, shouldn't there be ways of doing it?
Why would you carry anything except a steel sword and garbage armour around with you if you can be looted after death? Must you ALWAYS travel anywhere in a pack to avoid packs of PKers that, even with your best skills, can overwhelm you with numbers? (Again, that's what happened without insurance in UO.) Even having travelled to Fel and actually gotten thru a champ spawn, I'd lose everything trying to get back to Trammel. (Yes, I've always sucked at PvP, I admit. If it was all open-PvP, then no game would ever get my money, and companies DO want my money.)
Now, OK, I admit there IS a portion of the population that loves and wants open-PvP environments. There should probably be a selection of RPGs for you folks to choose from where this can be accomplished WITH the great graphics, immersive storylines and environments, and all the other trappings of the big-market MMOs. There's certainly ENOUGH fantasy MMOs out there and continuing to be developed that SOMEBODY should make one for you. But there's not a whole lot of innovation going on in companies at all these days. It's just "How do I cash in on EQ?" Like the RTS craze of a few years ago. After Warcraft and C&C, everybody else just kinda made the same thing hoping to make a quick buck. Those were quick and easy to develop, but an MMO is not. So unless the NUMBERS of Open-PvPers rise rapidly and can find a company that will take the chance to let you PROVE it, you're going to have to settle for a watered-down version of PvP in MMORPGs. It's not so much "carebears" as it is economics and company innovation that's keeping you from getting your kind of game. Or maybe it IS "carebears". Not a whole lot of folks that I've ever played these games with (and I've played a few over the last 6 years) actually ENJOY losing their stuf to a PKer cloaked in invisibility at the zone-point while the server hits a lag-spurt.
-- Xix "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
As far as current MMORPG players are concerned yes, pvpers are less but, in all online gaming pvpers are much in the majority. A decent sorta GTA 1930's FPS kind of MMO game would bring in all the shooting fans and become HUGE since there is TONS of online shooting game fans. It is not that pvpers are in the minority just in the MMORPG market because all of them lack anything for pvpers to do. IF there was a good pvp game then pvpers would not be a niche market.
TO THE MODERATORS - Plz notice this is not flaming....I am just trying to shed some light to both sides of this silly pointless thread!
Firstly I read this whole thread from begining to end....and I swear I can't believe what I am hearing from adults who sound like children....
Plz realise there is a demand for both "Carebear MMOs" and "Hardcore PKer MMOs". There is a massive difference between them...thats why!
Let me tell you something...."Carebears" and "Hardcore PKers" seem to have different tastes for MMORPGS. Why have very very few of you who have posted in this thread managed to see that.
I haven't heard one "Carebear" admit that people whining about how they get PKed in Old UO or other games where they hate getting pked 4 or 5 times in a few hours and loosing all their loot and money....why cant they admit they are playing the wrong damn game.
And the narrow minded "carebears" calling "Hardcore PKers" A**h*les, its not their fault! because in UO there was no justice system...and yes there were silly ppl who used to camp around corpses and kill them right after they respawned just for the fun of ruining that other persons fun. I would never do that personally but dumba**es like that exist all over the world and not just in mmo's but in real life aswell!
And to the so called "Hardcore PKers"....who think that the "Carebears" are just weak minded people who don't want any pvp challenge and don't want to die easilly....Its not that they hate PvP, they just prefer doing quests and being a part of the story from time to time...and maybe all the time! Now yes there are whiners who you have experienced in Old UO but those f**ls never thought that they might be playing the wrong game!
You shouldn't be taking it out on the people who just wanna play a game thats simple and fun like WoW or EQ (role playing or something where they can avoid pvp for the time being) where they can enjoy doing quests solo or with a few friends without the worry of being pestered or ambushed in a pvp raid. They have their different desires in a game experience....Obviously I can understand that in Fully pvp games you can't help that but atleast make them aware that they are just playing the wrong game!
BTW you can both agree ("Carebears" and "Hardcore PKers") that there Old UO didn't have enough justice....some ppl did take advantage of being stronger then others and did act like very unpleasent competition camping by their corpses continously waiting for the poor guy to respawn.
I myself hate lvl based games with pvp....like WoW PvP servers....the fact that I have to spend a month non stop playing to get to the top lvl (lvl60) before I can be any true competition to the alliance if I am horde makes me swear. Because before I get to lvl 60 there is nothing I can do to survive against the alliance. Thats why I enjoyed the Roleplaying servers much more. The same goes to all pvp games with a lvl based system....I think its absolutley stupid! Skill based systems are the best way to go for PvP! But I love Open
Please Read Below!
I put "Carebear and "Hardcore PKers" in the "" because this is what you have been addressing yourselves as continously. So I stuck to it, but I will give you my own definition of what you ppl really are and what games you like from my own point of view...
Carebear - You guys seem not to enjoy Open PvP....some of you don't like it at all, I can understand that. I also understand that you enjoy PvP from time to time but dont want that constant worry of not managing to get from one location to another because you might be attacked and cant do anything about it. And also that in games like UO you would loose all your loot if you die...and thats not very nice if you had a really nice looking rare which wasn't insured. And it spoils all the fun. Thats why you should always avoid these games if you dont want those consequences. I have to admit...I myself would probably really enjoy D&D Online (which has no PvP atall) but it has amazing quests and brilliant combat...and no pvp means ill enjoy it. I dont really like games with a mix of PvP (Faction Vs Faction) and questing, one ruins the other at times.
Hardcore PKers - I am one of them definitley....I love Open PvP...the fact that I could see someone comming from a busy trading city unsuspecting me hiding in the bushes and ready to attack kill and take (loot) all his valuables is awesome in my opinion. Its the fact that you have the freedom to do what you like that is the great fun about Open PvP....you are not restricted to who you can attack or kill. And even if I am the victim, to me its fun because its a challenge, and if possible I would hire some NPC guards to escort me if I was carry valuables on me. Open PvP is not there to cater to the ppl who just love to run a mock and spoil pplz fun, and camp their corpses waiting for them to reviveee....they are just a**h*les.
My Final Note - The reason Open PvP games like Old UO are not popular in the MMORPG industry is because they are a great risk and very complex to create. They want to avoid the problems Old UO faced such as a crap justice system which did not properly give justice to those corpse campers and constant villains and murderers ill call them....But to be honest I love the way Eve Online did their open pvp system....for commiting crimes you sure do get justice and a lot of problems. Maybe thats why Darkfall is taking so long to be made, they don't want to make the same mistakes and have a game which spoils the fun because some ppl found loop holes in the justice system of the Open PvP MMO. But they are in very big demand just so you know!
Feel free to correct anything I stated as wrong...all I said was my own personal view of this topic.
Comments
You know, I find it very odd. You keep calling "carebears" whiners, but the only people I see whining...are you guys.
Chris Mattern
this is a discussion on uo. I see many here just attacking the concept of pvp. Dont you have non pvp games with boards to post on ???
Orky Name Generator, only at www.bigchoppaz.com
If all else in life fails you, buy a vowel.
I think PvE zones to level up are the best idea really. DAoC did this rather well, so you could level up to basically 30ish without really having to leave the safe zones... but again it got rather boring... and even thought I tended to get ganked a lot I found myself out hunting elf and firbolg types with my Huntress in my 20's. It was very satisfying to take players higher than you by surprises in their home zones with such a low character and made the many deaths and having to walk all the way back again (1 hour plus if you lived) usually worth it.... Till they nerfed Archery of course
About 5 points higher than the average whiner.... but we make up for it by having testicles... ever wondered why your voice was so high pitched ?
hey tiger, settle down, it was just a joke. so instead of attacking me personally, why dont you learn to relax and take a joke once and awhile
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Got to ask how much of an IQ does it take to read the box the game comes in. How much IQ would it take, i ask to check out the games web site.
Nope you show your IQ by comming to a forum and spit insults and cry and throw a tantrum about how some person bested you in a game. Thought it was Just a game.
Cry more
If you cant handle it dont play it. Grow a pair. You come to sites like these and just cry and cry and cry more.
I mean us older gamers find it really funny at times but i mean, damn dont you think a bucket of runny nose goo and a river of tears is a little much.
I thought it was just a game?
That is common sense. I think the result stems from too much Nintendo and not enough PC gaming exp.
Pking and open pvping where going on since the old old mud days.
Only Carebears care.
no, i just dont like being molested in a game which i pay for to have fun with, not get repeatedly "owned" by some 12 year old. now with the IQ thing, IT WAS A JOKE. jeez, learn to relax and take a joke every now and then, dont take everything so seriously. and i was never throwning a tantrum. if you would acually read it and not go straight to the IQ joke,i was acually stating the truth. you people sit on all day just to get the best stuff, so you can kill everything in your path and make new people time on the game a living hell. and your basically stereotyping saying that i cry when i get killed. no i dont. i get pissed sometimes, but i dont cry. your the one who crys when you die, becuase you thought your were the baddest mofo in the game, then someone comes up and kills you. YOUR the carebears. your the people who log out right when someone is about to kill you. your the people who trashtalk people WHEN THEYRE DEAD just so they wont attack you. also, i dont mind being bested in a game. i know there is always someone stronger then me. i know i will never be the best in a game. and MMO's dont require skill. its all "im a higher level then you i win" or "my stuff is better i kill you". if you want a real debate, tell me when your ready. but attacking me personally isnt a debate.
Edit: sry about the double post
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
UO pvp has nothing to do with levels(since there are not levels) and there were no uber items. You are thinking of carebear games that have levels and items determine the winner and those are by no means a real pvp game. If you really want to get rid of PKs instead of whining to developers to change a great game you could just not appease them by not acting mad. Don't go back to them and say "you are a ******* *** with no more intelligence than a retarded monkey. That just makes me laugh. You shouldn't take them as personal attacks. It is just a friendly competition in a game. If you arn't having fun then it is probably not the game for you. If you go and play baseball and don't have fun then don't play it. Just don't go whine to developers to change a game and ruin the fun of others, you are the real griefers. Destroying great games, go play consoles.
http://aerirprown.blogspot.com/
actually true old uo pvpers where kind about it unless you pissed them off. sure keep rez killing but when you didnt fight back thats how i made my friends that way thatwhere hella cool.
but those days are long long gone
see the original poster doesnt take me as a kind pvper so he could sit and spin for all i care.
theres no code in being a pvper anymore the originals where the best.
I have never met a Pker who did not shut the hell up when he supposedly made a "1337 kill" after wiping out a noob. You want to PvP with complete loot? Grand, do it with the others who want to, those who dont want to PvP should have a small space of protection as ive said. I could express my hate to the word carebear with an all out flame, but seeing as how that would do nothing good, im going to refrain. You PvPers play games how you want to, and yet you still go "bitch bitch bitch" on how others play a game. So why dont you stop YOUR whining for a change?
Edit: And yes, if someone wandered into such a game without a protection zone and FFA PvP, but still gets bashed on for making a mistake, you could try kindly telling them that without the labels of Carebear or other crap.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Man, this thread is filled with carebears that it spills out.
I rarely call people carebears, but after reading all this whining about open PvP, it made me boil. Look, if you got OMGWTFPWNED in open pvp game, don't blame it on others, blame it on yourself for a) being a newnblet, b) choosing a game which obviously promotes a game style not suitable for you, or c) both.
If you can't handle open pvp, don't play it. There is a huge division between MMORPG players who are either hardcore open pvpers, or those who hate open PvP. Just because you don't like open pvp, it doesn't mean you have to cry about it.
Just because I PK you, it makes me a prick? griefer? No, it means I'm utilizing a game feature which allows me to attack anyone at any given moment of the game.
Don't like it, can't handle it, don't play it.
As for original poster, I'd suggest monitoring DarkFall. It has been in development since a while, but if it does come out, it'll provide everything you would wish for as PvPer. Open loot, Open PvP, Sieges, Skill Based, etc.
www.DarkFallOnline.com
Rest of you, go play WoW or EQ, you won't have to worry about loosing your pixels and you'll be able to RP each other to death.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
If you made sense, I might like you, but you don't, as must of "carebears". How in the hell can you have Open PvP, and be able to "take a break to do other things", which basically means be immune from open PvP. It's a condradiction my friend! If you allow those who do not wish to PvP for reason or another be able to become "immune" to Open PvP environment, then it's NOT open PvP.
There are games for players like you. You have EQ, WoW, etc, where you can PvP if you choose to, and do your own thing if you don't want to. I don't see YOUR and the rest of "OMG Open PvP Sucks for Me" community.
Original poster, along with many Hardcore PvPers, want a game which gives us completely open PvP enviroment. Does it bother you so much? Does it affact you? Does anyone force you to play it? NO! You have a variety of games to choose from to play the game style you prefer, which is awsome, but many of us DON'T.
It's funny how so many people call Hardcore PvPers (That's how I call Open PvP promoters) punks, griefers, jerks, etc, but they don't seem to understand that those so called "jerks" simple practice a feature a game provides. Now, when a carebear cries out when he gets pked, although he can stay in his "PvP free enviornment" it's ok, but when a so called "jerk" simply complains about lack of games with open PvP enviroment, it's offensive for so called "carebears".
To the point, you got your games where you can PvP and do "other" things without worrying about other players, but WE, Open Environment PvP gamers DON'T have games to enjoy what we like.
So, how about you take your hypocrisy and ignorance to an obvious matter within your games. You are obviously so full of yourself and your game style that you don't see that there might be gamers, who are not necessarly jerks, who enjoy different game styles, but can't play them due to lack of games.
Talking about being disgusted with those who label others with different opinions.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
I'm glad you are going to ignore it, since it doesn't have much to do with you, since YOU have a GAME to PLAY which provides your game style. Once again, WE DON'T have such a game.
Oh, and it's ok to call us "griefers", right?
I don't mind quests, etc in open pvp game, that's why I'm looking for DF, which will provide everything, but I do mind not being able to attack someone when he's questing, that's limiting PvP. If someone attacks me while I'm questing, oh well, tough shit, I'll fight back and quest later.
Go play your games, since you got them.
UO pvp has nothing to do with levels(since there are not levels) and there were no uber items. You are thinking of carebear games that have levels and items determine the winner and those are by no means a real pvp game. If you really want to get rid of PKs instead of whining to developers to change a great game you could just not appease them by not acting mad. Don't go back to them and say "you are a ******* *** with no more intelligence than a retarded monkey. That just makes me laugh. You shouldn't take them as personal attacks. It is just a friendly competition in a game. If you arn't having fun then it is probably not the game for you. If you go and play baseball and don't have fun then don't play it. Just don't go whine to developers to change a game and ruin the fun of others, you are the real griefers. Destroying great games, go play consoles.
Ahh, another idiot that will defend his game untill death. yes by all means, every game on the market is carebear! L2 is a pussies game! jeez, stfu, you sound like an idiot going around calling everything carebear and you hardcore. We dont whine to devs just because we get killed. we dont mind being killed several times. but being ganked 73 times in a row just trying to get to another part of town is just idiotic. the devs saw the game was going downhill with all the mindless murder and noob gankers, and changed it. And you make me laugh. you kept saying we whined and complained untill we got our way like 5 year olds. way to stereotype the shit out of that one! your the godamn whiners. whenever you die on a game you throw a tantrum and log out. i knew some guy that kept attacking me, but when i about killed him, he logged out. and btw, they were personal attacks, read them more carefully. and we dont destroy good games, you do, you make the game a living hell, while we PAID to have fun. i know you dont grasp the fact that we had to PAY, because your daddy was paying it for you. move on, just please move on, its done, and its over with
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Their is hope in sight. I totally see where you are coming from, being a former UO players from years back. I very much miss the all or nothing PvP approach done originally in UO. Their is hope in sight with games like Dark and Light and and Darkfall coming down the road. Although, Darkfall is a long way off. Here is a good FAQ on Dark and Light if interested. It makes a good read for the former UO players.
Here are some screenies:
www.gamershell.com/pc/dark_and...creenshots.html
Here is a dynamite FAQ:
www.stratics.com/content/porta...nl/content/faq/
Yup! Till then it's GTA:SA and Guild Wars.
"To the point, you got your games where you can PvP and do "other" things without worrying about other players, but WE, Open Environment PvP gamers DON'T have games to enjoy what we like."
Sure you do. Every FPS ever made. PvP AND Twitch! What more could you want?
"I feel your pain dude. I am a age old UO player myself and I miss the intense PvP action that once domniated this whole genre. I think their is hope in site with Dark and Light and Darkfall, both of which promise some awesome new concepts and a PvP environment that would appeal to most of those former UO players."
So you're on Siege Perilous now? That's your old-style UO. How come it's so lightly populated if there are so many of you out there? I think that's one of the more telling indicators for MMO producers. If there's such a large open-PvP market, why is nobody on Siege Perilous? It's because the vast majority of open-PvPers aren't really playing RPGs, but shooters, where the whole POINT of the game is to PvP.
Following hard on the Open-PvP debate is, of course, the skills-and-items-rule-PvP debate. I think they stand quite nicely for what's been developing: two different genres. The "RPG" for skills-and-items, limited/controlled-PvP and the "FPS" for "twitch" and Open-PvP. I feel that Open-PvP advocates would be better served by attempting to get the FPS producers to create more interesting environments for play, rather than getting RPG producers to alienate a large protion of their defined market.
-- Xix
"I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
Funny, because Pre-UO:R is still BEST MMORPG EVER MADE, not according to only PvPers, but majority of MMORPG community. Guess what original UO had... Open PvP!
You just can't handle the fact that your ego is so huge that you can't comprehand idea that other's might like different game styles than you. Go back storing your pixels and questing yourself to death. Oh boy, wouldn't it suck to loose your game pixels to another player! Right? If stupidity hurt you'd be on morphine.
FPS games have 0 to do with Open PvP MMORPGs. If I wanted to go on a server for 20min to do same map over and over to be #1 on the server for each round, I'd play FPS. If I wanted to be able to play in a 24h world, develop my character and twitch it to be better than others and at the same time practice my skills to be best at PvP, along with enjoying in-depth server Politics, Sieges, Raids, City Development, and Guilds/Clans, and at the same time be able to attack anyone at any given moment, I'd play PvP MMORPG. If you can't see difference, you are blind.
Have you even played UO lately? Siege Perilous is not old style UO. It has fel rules but, that is it. It is just AOS crap without insurance. The reason UO is not populated today is because its' graphics are way behind the times. They were behind the times when it came out. The real gamers don't look at graphics so there were still some but, still some non-gamers. They whined about getting killed by PKs who had real skill. They changed UO to make it so newbs could stand more of a chance against the best. At this point many many pvpers left the game. Every time they have changed it more people have left and it has brought in few new ones because of the dated graphics. They see the loss of accounts and then see on the boards the people who compain about getting killed and think that is the problem. Some remained and new pvpers(the previous whiners) took over. New players came and got roxxored by the pvpers so they whined. They changed the game to give people with no skill even more of a chance at winning. The pvpers left but, few remained. The new newbs took over as pvpers. This goes on and on and is still going on. Now though the graphics are such a huge amount behind even the newbs are leaving it. The people they tried so hard to please are leaving. All they really needed to do was upgrade the graphics every year to make the newbs happy. Every major pvp game I can think of had graphics behind the times because rarely will big companies listen to players. And if you are going to say that is not true people just didn't like getting killed. Why play mindlessly fight monsters in 2d when you can fight them in 3d? Well instead of making new games all they do is make the same old EQ clones shinier and sell them and people buy them because they think all games are EQ clones. If anything was a problem with UO it was the graphics. They have made UO into and EQ clone with items/amount of time played decide the winner. What still not lots of players playing it, hmm maybe they will realize it was the graphics not the mechanics that needed changed. Since every change they made lost more people it is clear it is clear that mechanics was not the real problem. I was one of the few PvPers who stayed all the way until AOS and left because it was a huge leap toward EQ clones. In my time everytime a major change would come out it was the pvpers who left and the same newbs that whined were still there until they realized there were other MMORPG's with better graphics.
http://aerirprown.blogspot.com/
I don't doubt that there is a niche market for Open-PvP MMORPGs. But great graphics MMOs require lots of money to develop, and I just don't think the market for Open-PvP MMORPFs is big enough for the companies that have the money to do the great graphics. And I don't think the Open-PvP market is big enough to interest the companies that DO have the money for the great graphics. You state that the FPS is just repetitive maps for 20 minutes. That's my point. Get the FPS producers to create persistent worlds for you to PvP IN. The RPG producers aren't going to alienate a large portion of their market by creating completely Open-PvP games. There's too much of an economic investment in the whole RPG environment.
Wasn't UO2 (or UXO or whatever it was supposed to be called) supposed to be based on the Unreal Engine?
I think one answer should be open-PvP areas within RPGs with purposes and rewards for people going into them beyond just PvP. Some games have tried this and failed miserably (SWG, for example. And if you don't like the Fel rules, then I guess you'd count that as a failure too). I believe some upcoming games will be looking at open-PvP central areas where factions/races will fight. But I don't think you'll see a completely open-PvP MMORPG with great graphics because the market simply isn't big enough to support the expense of creating it.
There's other problems I think. You say you want Open-PvP but with player cities, politics, and all the other trappings of the MMO. OK. Then, in this kind of completely open-PvP, can I blow up your house when you're not home? Can I pick the locks on your doors while you're off-line and go in and steal your stuf? Disable your security system with my Level 75 Hacker and steal your stuf? Traditionally, houses have been offlimits for PvPing (except for UO, if you forgot to lock up your stuf) and stealing. But in a completely open-PvP, shouldn't there be ways of doing it?
Why would you carry anything except a steel sword and garbage armour around with you if you can be looted after death? Must you ALWAYS travel anywhere in a pack to avoid packs of PKers that, even with your best skills, can overwhelm you with numbers? (Again, that's what happened without insurance in UO.) Even having travelled to Fel and actually gotten thru a champ spawn, I'd lose everything trying to get back to Trammel. (Yes, I've always sucked at PvP, I admit. If it was all open-PvP, then no game would ever get my money, and companies DO want my money.)
Now, OK, I admit there IS a portion of the population that loves and wants open-PvP environments. There should probably be a selection of RPGs for you folks to choose from where this can be accomplished WITH the great graphics, immersive storylines and environments, and all the other trappings of the big-market MMOs. There's certainly ENOUGH fantasy MMOs out there and continuing to be developed that SOMEBODY should make one for you. But there's not a whole lot of innovation going on in companies at all these days. It's just "How do I cash in on EQ?" Like the RTS craze of a few years ago. After Warcraft and C&C, everybody else just kinda made the same thing hoping to make a quick buck. Those were quick and easy to develop, but an MMO is not. So unless the NUMBERS of Open-PvPers rise rapidly and can find a company that will take the chance to let you PROVE it, you're going to have to settle for a watered-down version of PvP in MMORPGs. It's not so much "carebears" as it is economics and company innovation that's keeping you from getting your kind of game. Or maybe it IS "carebears". Not a whole lot of folks that I've ever played these games with (and I've played a few over the last 6 years) actually ENJOY losing their stuf to a PKer cloaked in invisibility at the zone-point while the server hits a lag-spurt.
-- Xix
"I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
As far as current MMORPG players are concerned yes, pvpers are less but, in all online gaming pvpers are much in the majority. A decent sorta GTA 1930's FPS kind of MMO game would bring in all the shooting fans and become HUGE since there is TONS of online shooting game fans. It is not that pvpers are in the minority just in the MMORPG market because all of them lack anything for pvpers to do. IF there was a good pvp game then pvpers would not be a niche market.
http://aerirprown.blogspot.com/
TO THE MODERATORS - Plz notice this is not flaming....I am just trying to shed some light to both sides of this silly pointless thread!
Firstly I read this whole thread from begining to end....and I swear I can't believe what I am hearing from adults who sound like children....
Plz realise there is a demand for both "Carebear MMOs" and "Hardcore PKer MMOs". There is a massive difference between them...thats why!
Let me tell you something...."Carebears" and "Hardcore PKers" seem to have different tastes for MMORPGS. Why have very very few of you who have posted in this thread managed to see that.
I haven't heard one "Carebear" admit that people whining about how they get PKed in Old UO or other games where they hate getting pked 4 or 5 times in a few hours and loosing all their loot and money....why cant they admit they are playing the wrong damn game.
And the narrow minded "carebears" calling "Hardcore PKers" A**h*les, its not their fault! because in UO there was no justice system...and yes there were silly ppl who used to camp around corpses and kill them right after they respawned just for the fun of ruining that other persons fun. I would never do that personally but dumba**es like that exist all over the world and not just in mmo's but in real life aswell!
And to the so called "Hardcore PKers"....who think that the "Carebears" are just weak minded people who don't want any pvp challenge and don't want to die easilly....Its not that they hate PvP, they just prefer doing quests and being a part of the story from time to time...and maybe all the time! Now yes there are whiners who you have experienced in Old UO but those f**ls never thought that they might be playing the wrong game!
You shouldn't be taking it out on the people who just wanna play a game thats simple and fun like WoW or EQ (role playing or something where they can avoid pvp for the time being) where they can enjoy doing quests solo or with a few friends without the worry of being pestered or ambushed in a pvp raid. They have their different desires in a game experience....Obviously I can understand that in Fully pvp games you can't help that but atleast make them aware that they are just playing the wrong game!
BTW you can both agree ("Carebears" and "Hardcore PKers") that there Old UO didn't have enough justice....some ppl did take advantage of being stronger then others and did act like very unpleasent competition camping by their corpses continously waiting for the poor guy to respawn.
I myself hate lvl based games with pvp....like WoW PvP servers....the fact that I have to spend a month non stop playing to get to the top lvl (lvl60) before I can be any true competition to the alliance if I am horde makes me swear. Because before I get to lvl 60 there is nothing I can do to survive against the alliance. Thats why I enjoyed the Roleplaying servers much more. The same goes to all pvp games with a lvl based system....I think its absolutley stupid! Skill based systems are the best way to go for PvP! But I love Open
Please Read Below!
I put "Carebear and "Hardcore PKers" in the "" because this is what you have been addressing yourselves as continously. So I stuck to it, but I will give you my own definition of what you ppl really are and what games you like from my own point of view...
Carebear - You guys seem not to enjoy Open PvP....some of you don't like it at all, I can understand that. I also understand that you enjoy PvP from time to time but dont want that constant worry of not managing to get from one location to another because you might be attacked and cant do anything about it. And also that in games like UO you would loose all your loot if you die...and thats not very nice if you had a really nice looking rare which wasn't insured. And it spoils all the fun. Thats why you should always avoid these games if you dont want those consequences. I have to admit...I myself would probably really enjoy D&D Online (which has no PvP atall) but it has amazing quests and brilliant combat...and no pvp means ill enjoy it. I dont really like games with a mix of PvP (Faction Vs Faction) and questing, one ruins the other at times.
Hardcore PKers - I am one of them definitley....I love Open PvP...the fact that I could see someone comming from a busy trading city unsuspecting me hiding in the bushes and ready to attack kill and take (loot) all his valuables is awesome in my opinion. Its the fact that you have the freedom to do what you like that is the great fun about Open PvP....you are not restricted to who you can attack or kill. And even if I am the victim, to me its fun because its a challenge, and if possible I would hire some NPC guards to escort me if I was carry valuables on me. Open PvP is not there to cater to the ppl who just love to run a mock and spoil pplz fun, and camp their corpses waiting for them to reviveee....they are just a**h*les.
My Final Note - The reason Open PvP games like Old UO are not popular in the MMORPG industry is because they are a great risk and very complex to create. They want to avoid the problems Old UO faced such as a crap justice system which did not properly give justice to those corpse campers and constant villains and murderers ill call them....But to be honest I love the way Eve Online did their open pvp system....for commiting crimes you sure do get justice and a lot of problems. Maybe thats why Darkfall is taking so long to be made, they don't want to make the same mistakes and have a game which spoils the fun because some ppl found loop holes in the justice system of the Open PvP MMO. But they are in very big demand just so you know!
Feel free to correct anything I stated as wrong...all I said was my own personal view of this topic.