Mehh most likely not...I think a lot of the crowdfund Devs have great ideas, just absolutely no clue how to manage a project. There is a reason PM's get paid real decent money, someone has to write the schedule, budget, set milestones and enforce it and artsy types don't do well under pressure even less so when left to their own devices.
So, probably not.
Ideas are easy. Implementation is difficult. These independent developers are going into their projects with a "game first" mentality. What draws investment money is a "business first" philosophy. I feel that's why a lot of these efforts seem to end up as crowdfunding projects, then as crowdfunded failures. The developers don't want the businessmen looking over their shoulder. It's pretty obvious to see how that's working out.
To me, Project Management falls between the two extremes of business and development. I get the impression that many of these developers tend to lump the PM types into the business group. They want to be independent. They think they can do it all, without any input from outside the development core. I haven't seen many examples of that strategy working well.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Id crowdfund things like Everspace 2 by a team with a well received product out to back them but never in a month of Sundays would I back somethign with ppl like Chris Roberts at the helm.
Probably not. If the developer were a personal friend and I was really interested in the game, then maybe. Just being interested in the game is enough for me to buy it after it launches, but not to crowdfund it.
NO!!! Never have....NEVER WILL. If you don't have a plan in place to start with...there is NO place to go! Also I hate to say this...but CF needs to be regulated. NOONE knows where this money goes...other than in the pockets of corrupt "con men". Please people, MAKE companies have more responsibility for their business...rather than take them "off the hook" using OPM.
I have backed CU and Crowfall. I would be open to another I can believe in. I mainly back crpg's though and have been happy with my results of those the most recent being Solasta.
Mehh most likely not...I think a lot of the crowdfund Devs have great ideas, just absolutely no clue how to manage a project. There is a reason PM's get paid real decent money, someone has to write the schedule, budget, set milestones and enforce it and artsy types don't do well under pressure even less so when left to their own devices.
So, probably not.
Ideas are easy. Implementation is difficult. These independent developers are going into their projects with a "game first" mentality. What draws investment money is a "business first" philosophy. I feel that's why a lot of these efforts seem to end up as crowdfunding projects, then as crowdfunded failures. The developers don't want the businessmen looking over their shoulder. It's pretty obvious to see how that's working out.
To me, Project Management falls between the two extremes of business and development. I get the impression that many of these developers tend to lump the PM types into the business group. They want to be independent. They think they can do it all, without any input from outside the development core. I haven't seen many examples of that strategy working well.
I 100% agree with you. My favorite is Chris Roberts, no doubt he is an idea guy, and let's be honest he can sell ice to Eskimos but as soon as he comes up with an idea, a new shiny, he is off on that tangent.
I fully believe he would have a game on the ground right now if CIG had used CR design ideas and salesmanship and had someone else steering the ship.
Having said that, you again hit the nail on the head. A "traditional" Project manager would probably fail as well, it is a fact that artists are usually fiercely independent and do not stand criticism well. IMO a person well versed in art with the discipline and experience to manage people to a schedule would do quite well and if these indie companies gave their business model and philosophy as much attention as they did their ideas, we would have a whole slew of games to play right now. Sadly, we do not have that problem, but what we do have is a lot of great examples of what not to do.
*Side note* I am absolutely not saying CIG will succeed or fail, just an example of a very creative person allowed to run amok.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I was tempted by Pantheon and Ashes of Creation, but I'll wait for release. I just don't trust game companies any more. I prefer to wait for a game to come out and read the reviews before I purchase. I NEVER pre-order games.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Crowdfunding wasn’t create to fund the whole project (not just games), it was created to fund the prototype so the start up could find real investors.
And for that purpose it works really well (outside of gaming). It’s just in gaming that the whole thing degenerated into a full fledged funding campaign.
So if my money helps funding a working concept, I can give my 50 Dollars. But that’s all I am willing to give, as I see it as a contribution to get the project off its feet.
I don’t want to be a long term investor. Real companies should invest in the games, not the players.
People are probably expecting too much when the kickstarter only raised a few million..
Consider how many mmorpg failed with large funding. It is not likely kickstarter mmorpg can come out with good quality.
It absolutely is possible to make a good game on a budget of a few million dollars. It won't be an AAA MMORPG with all of the bells and whistles, but there have been plenty of good games made on smaller budgets. I'm pretty sure that A Tale in the Desert was made on a smaller budget than that, considering that the team topped out at four paid employees. I'd also be surprised if Spiral Knights or Puzzle Pirates had a budget in the tens of millions as opposed to the single digit millions.
What's far more dubious is proposing to make a large-scale MMORPG on a budget in the tens of thousands, as some kickstarters propose.
MMOs should be developed by large-scale teams & resources, as seen by all attempting to do one from crowdfunding the struggles are all to visible.
The unfortunate part, is that the big MMO publishers & developers are not picking on more ambitious and different types of MMO beyond generally milking the same formula, that is what drives smaller developers to crowdfunding. It's not great times for MMO's at all.
NO!!! Never have....NEVER WILL. If you don't have a plan in place to start with...there is NO place to go! Also I hate to say this...but CF needs to be regulated. NOONE knows where this money goes...other than in the pockets of corrupt "con men". Please people, MAKE companies have more responsibility for their business...rather than take them "off the hook" using OPM.
I disagree. If you see crowdfunding as "buying a game", you're dead wrong. What you are doing is "investing", NOT buying. You may be promised a reward of a finished game if it releases, but that release is NOT a given.
Remember, Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites are not store fronts with finished products. They all sell ideas, which can fail.
We don't need regulations, just smarter "investors."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
NO!!! Never have....NEVER WILL. If you don't have a plan in place to start with...there is NO place to go! Also I hate to say this...but CF needs to be regulated. NOONE knows where this money goes...other than in the pockets of corrupt "con men". Please people, MAKE companies have more responsibility for their business...rather than take them "off the hook" using OPM.
I disagree. If you see crowdfunding as "buying a game", you're dead wrong. What you are doing is "investing", NOT buying. You may be promised a reward of a finished game if it releases, but that release is NOT a given.
Remember, Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites are not store fronts with finished products. They all sell ideas, which can fail.
We don't need regulations, just smarter "investors."
An investment should have higher upside if the game is successful than a simple purchase. If you put in $50 up front, and they promise to repay you $100 if the game brings in $10 million in revenue after costing $1 million to produce, then that could plausibly be called an investment. That's not how crowdfunding works, though.
I always looked at funding a game as a long shot. Banner Saga was awesome and I know it's not an MMO. Most MMOs take 5 years + to release with big budgets. So my expectations are still low for the other 2 games I funded, Pantheon and Ashes of Creation. I would fund Pantheon again but not Ashes. So is short, maybe.
Probably not. If the developer were a personal friend and I was really interested in the game, then maybe. Just being interested in the game is enough for me to buy it after it launches, but not to crowdfund it.
I don't have any friends close enough that I would want to pay for their kid's college, nor am I financially capable of doing so. I also consider that as applying to "building a company to financially support them". If I'm going to invest, I want something that is covered by rules and regulations, such as the SEC provides. I may buy a finished game a friend contributes to.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
NO!!! Never have....NEVER WILL. If you don't have a plan in place to start with...there is NO place to go! Also I hate to say this...but CF needs to be regulated. NOONE knows where this money goes...other than in the pockets of corrupt "con men". Please people, MAKE companies have more responsibility for their business...rather than take them "off the hook" using OPM.
I disagree. If you see crowdfunding as "buying a game", you're dead wrong. What you are doing is "investing", NOT buying. You may be promised a reward of a finished game if it releases, but that release is NOT a given.
Remember, Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites are not store fronts with finished products. They all sell ideas, which can fail.
We don't need regulations, just smarter "investors."
An investment should have higher upside if the game is successful than a simple purchase. If you put in $50 up front, and they promise to repay you $100 if the game brings in $10 million in revenue after costing $1 million to produce, then that could plausibly be called an investment. That's not how crowdfunding works, though.
The payout is the product. People pretending a kickstarter is a pre-order platform are part of the problem, ignoring all disclaimers given.
NEVER have and never will.There are likely a MILLION better ways to spend your money than giving free handouts to some game developer.I barely like paying for the games anymore because most are just rubbish shallow piles of crap.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
NO!!! Never have....NEVER WILL. If you don't have a plan in place to start with...there is NO place to go! Also I hate to say this...but CF needs to be regulated. NOONE knows where this money goes...other than in the pockets of corrupt "con men". Please people, MAKE companies have more responsibility for their business...rather than take them "off the hook" using OPM.
I disagree. If you see crowdfunding as "buying a game", you're dead wrong. What you are doing is "investing", NOT buying. You may be promised a reward of a finished game if it releases, but that release is NOT a given.
Remember, Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites are not store fronts with finished products. They all sell ideas, which can fail.
We don't need regulations, just smarter "investors."
An investment should have higher upside if the game is successful than a simple purchase. If you put in $50 up front, and they promise to repay you $100 if the game brings in $10 million in revenue after costing $1 million to produce, then that could plausibly be called an investment. That's not how crowdfunding works, though.
The payout is the product. People pretending a kickstarter is a pre-order platform are part of the problem, ignoring all disclaimers given.
This x 1000.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Comments
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I fully believe he would have a game on the ground right now if CIG had used CR design ideas and salesmanship and had someone else steering the ship.
Having said that, you again hit the nail on the head. A "traditional" Project manager would probably fail as well, it is a fact that artists are usually fiercely independent and do not stand criticism well. IMO a person well versed in art with the discipline and experience to manage people to a schedule would do quite well and if these indie companies gave their business model and philosophy as much attention as they did their ideas, we would have a whole slew of games to play right now. Sadly, we do not have that problem, but what we do have is a lot of great examples of what not to do.
*Side note* I am absolutely not saying CIG will succeed or fail, just an example of a very creative person allowed to run amok.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
And for that purpose it works really well (outside of gaming).
It’s just in gaming that the whole thing degenerated into a full fledged funding campaign.
So if my money helps funding a working concept, I can give my 50 Dollars.
But that’s all I am willing to give, as I see it as a contribution to get the project off its feet.
I don’t want to be a long term investor.
Real companies should invest in the games, not the players.
Consider how many mmorpg failed with large funding. It is not likely kickstarter mmorpg can come out with good quality.
What's far more dubious is proposing to make a large-scale MMORPG on a budget in the tens of thousands, as some kickstarters propose.
The unfortunate part, is that the big MMO publishers & developers are not picking on more ambitious and different types of MMO beyond generally milking the same formula, that is what drives smaller developers to crowdfunding. It's not great times for MMO's at all.
Remember, Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites are not store fronts with finished products. They all sell ideas, which can fail.
We don't need regulations, just smarter "investors."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.