What is dead is pretty much the current-gen standard MMO titles, the old mainstream ones continue doing their thing but they are generally all on the same traditional lines of what you are supposed to do and how you play them.
It misses obviously mainstream devs as far large-budget and large-resources go to create something new in current-gen standards. That is what is so dead.
Yes old school MMOs are dead for good reasons, who want to camp a boss camp for hours, or farm some mob for weeks for just one drop you need, yes it was cool in the old days when MMO was new and you didn't know any better.
It had nothing to do with knowing any better or them being new. Life just didn't exist at the breakneck instant speed that it does now.
People have computers in their pocket now that the NSA didn't have in 1998 and they can access anything at any time with them. Life is lightning quick now. A 24 hour old tweet might as well have been written 100 years ago by today's mindset.
When everyone wasn't instantly connected all the time to everything with information shooting at us from thousands of different directions, life moved a lot slower.
Not only that, but our time is absolutely deluged with choices for entertainment.
More video games were produced in 2019 than in the entire history of the world before the year 2000 combined. Over NINE THOUSAND games were released this year.
I can go on and on and on. More movies, more podcasts, more books, more YouTube videos....
We're a world that's completely and utterly swamped with entertainment media of all varieties. It's mind boggling and jaw droppingly astounding when you take a step back from whatever microcosm we're involved in and look at the big picture.
It isn't that these games are outdated, or that the genre is dead, it's that our time is so compressed now.
People have gotta somehow fit in their favorite dozen TV shows this week, read these best sellers on their list, play these new games that just came out, get in a few rounds on their mobile game, do their raid in their MMO, catch up with the latest posts on Reddit/MMORPG, catch the football game, watch their favorite YouTube channels and fit in all of life's other necessities in the same amount of time we had 20 years ago.
So what's the solution? Pick something you like and stick with it? Develop a better filter?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I think the "old geezers" are saying MMOs are dead because they are barely MMOs. They are no longer massive multiplayer online games, they are massive online single player games.
Technically speaking, MMOs are being released... but they don't qualify to us old people who played real MMOs as actual MMOs.
A MMO should be massive right crapload of players on a single shard, you can see them running past you you can see them hunking the local market, is it not massive because they don't do things in group?
Eve player?
Since a single UO, EQ1, AC, DAoC and arguably not even EQ2 or WoW could support a crapload of players total let alone the numbers there were after splitting them were split into zones / realms. And when you managed to get the heady heights of c. 100 people together it .... be.... ca...me .... a ...la..g..f...e...s...t.
Maybe in an age of "social interaction" there is way too much and so some would prefer to turn it all off unless in a personal circle of friends.
A very interesting point.
MMOs are the ancestors of Social Media, in a way. They were amazing tools for being social and meeting new people. Now that Social Media fulfills that in its own way, sociability it's no longer a particular feature/function that gets as much attention or thought.
Maybe in an age of "social interaction" there is way too much and so some would prefer to turn it all off unless in a personal circle of friends.
Two posts; opposite poles.
One of the attractions of early mmos was indeed the ability to communicate with others. It was a pretty novel experience back then.
Unlike today were it is possible to play any game - multiplayer, single player, tic-tac-toe! even - whilst being fully engaged and closely bonded with a circle of friends with whom one can have far greater social interaction than anything that was possible in the early days of mmos.
And I see no reason to believe that "old school gamers" who were attracted to early mmos for this reason won't have moved with technology to embrace the far richer opportunities that are now available to communicate.
Almost reminds me of a "people don't write anymore" whilst ignoring the fact that people can be in day-to-day, face-to-face communication with people all over the world. Ah but they don'y write letters you know so they miss out on the .... wtf!
So what's the solution? Pick something you like and stick with it? Develop a better filter?
I do not believe there is a solution, because there isn't one needed. So long as you do what's important first, before leisure, then people can do as they please. As H0urg1ass pointed out we are just deluged with choice for entertainment now, but I don't think that's a bad thing, we've got more choice.
Why may that be a bad thing? Perhaps people believe it then waters down quality? Maybe, but I don't particularly think so. I reckon we've only seen an increase in terms of quality.
I am not entirely certain of the complaint here so i'll break down a couple points.
1 You don't NEED to camp ANY boss unless your playing a crappy Wowish gear based game.I want the game to cater to the PLAYER not the gear.
2 Camping was done to garner xp and imo is a much better option because it involves "group" "team work" "class skills" and if a well designed combat involves other aspects such as type of weapon used and type of classes used.
3 Now an important aspect of game design that again MOST do NOT do correctly and simply dumb down any VALUABLE meaning gear has.This would be the INSTANCE and RARE ideas.
An item cannot be considered rare if everyone can easily get it by doing an instance which in essence means a million players could all have the same drop within the first hour.so much for rare or valuable.
You do valuable gear in an OPEN environment and YES you do have to camp it because that item SHOULD be RARE...valuable and meant to be EARNED,competed for instead of just running an instance 10x.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What makes an "old geezer?" Eye doc said I need bifocals. I made my eye doc mad cause I said, "No." You know, like no-wa. She is older than me and wearing bifocals and looked angry like I was the 100 patient that day in denial of aging. I said, "I'm a gamer." She had no idea what that meant. So I lied and said, "I work behind a computer screen." lol She said, "What do you want to do?" All grumpy like. I said, "Give me two sets of glasses." You would think that would make her happy cause more money but she looks resigned like I was a dum dum.
Fuck her damn bifocals.
I have gaming glasses and driving glasses now and love them both. Ha! I was right and she was wrong. Can see the screen real good.
My first game was Final Fantasy 11 and I don't know if that is considered an old mmo or not. It had that camping a mob all day for one ingredient in a recipe only to get the mob stole from you if it finally spawned and you were to slow.
Old school equates PAIN to me.
FFXI also had where we were forced to party together to level up. And if your party wiped you all deleveled. Omg the violent onslaught of verbal abuse if you, the healer, let your party down. Note it is always the healer's fault. In those kinds of parties I was the healer cause I'm damn good at it. Never my fault. *wink* *wink*
As far as gaming in general I started with Sim Ant, Sim Park, Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim, and Wolfenstein 3D the freakn DOS version.
What makes an "old geezer?" Eye doc said I need bifocals. I made my eye doc mad cause I said, "No." You know, like no-wa. She is older than me and wearing bifocals and looked angry like I was the 100 patient that day in denial of aging. I said, "I'm a gamer." She had no idea what that meant. So I lied and said, "I work behind a computer screen." lol She said, "What do you want to do?" All grumpy like. I said, "Give me two sets of glasses." You would think that would make her happy cause more money but she looks resigned like I was a dum dum.
Fuck her damn bifocals.
I have gaming glasses and driving glasses now and love them both. Ha! I was right and she was wrong. Can see the screen real good.
My first game was Final Fantasy 11 and I don't know if that is considered an old mmo or not. It had that camping a mob all day for one ingredient in a recipe only to get the mob stole from you if it finally spawned and you were to slow.
Old school equates PAIN to me.
FFXI also had where we were forced to party together to level up. And if your party wiped you all deleveled. Omg the violent onslaught of verbal abuse if you, the healer, let your party down. Note it is always the healer's fault. In those kinds of parties I was the healer cause I'm damn good at it. Never my fault. *wink* *wink*
As far as gaming in general I started with Sim Ant, Sim Park, Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim, and Wolfenstein 3D the freakn DOS version.
I have been wearing no line trifocals for years now, took some time getting used to but much better than switching between multiple pairs of glasses.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Old mmo's are like current day college grads who live in mom and dads basement and yell up the stairs for mom to bring them a sandwich but mom does not here him because she is playing EverQuest. Moral of the story,Play EverQuest and tell mom who is in your guild you want a Sandwich. One problem solved now local employment next ?
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Thing is, you cant play many of the old games. Some shut down and others have adopted more modern “features” in patches and expansions. By many accounts they are certainly dead beyond the disappointing emulators and classic versions
Post edited by Palebane on
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I think issue may be terms. There may be tons of MMOs, but how many mmorpgs? I have zero interest in mmos.
As someone above said, you can only play the same handful of games over and over again so much. There is only a handful of mmorpgs being developed.
I'm guessing the people who are loving the current gaming scene are young or are general gamers. If you have specific tastes and that taste isn't being catered to at all, there really is little to look forward to. As also was stated above - there used to be tons and tons of new mmorpgs being developed at any given time. Now just a handful, and due most of them not having any significant or meaty character development rpg systems, people like me who need that as a requirement have even less games to look forward to trying.
How many dead mmorpg do you want developers to keep making?
Yes old school MMOs are dead for good reasons, who want to camp a boss camp for hours, or farm some mob for weeks for just one drop you need, yes it was cool in the old days when MMO was new and you didn't know any better.
Stuff
So what's the solution? Pick something you like and stick with it? Develop a better filter?
How's the quote go in Men in Black?
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
In other words, some individuals will step back and say, "Whoa, this is too much. I need filter my life down, pick out the important pieces and let the rest go."
But people in general, not a chance.
Which is why we'll never get back to the "good old days" of MMORPG's where people would camp a boss spawn all night and actually have fun doing it. In modern society, after waiting for that boss for more than 45 seconds half your players will get fidgety, start thinking about what other forms of entertainment they're missing out on at the moment, and then you've lost them.
"Sorry guys, gotta run, something came up."
*player x has left the group*
No, there is no solution anymore. Society has simply taken a hard turn in general and those kinds of games will only ever be a niche activity enjoyed by a few people who have remembered how to slow down and not get swept up in the current of hype.
That's just my opinion. If I'm proven wrong in the future, then I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
People that love camping isn't everyone. When I hear you all talking about how long you would spend camping a spawn point, I think to myself "I'm glad I never played that game." I consider camping for hours on end to be a waste of my time. As for difficulty and the comment about how "rare" items should be done, I agree.
When I hear you all talking about how long you would spend camping a spawn point, I think to myself "I'm glad I never played that game." I consider camping for hours on end to be a waste of my time.
Getting to know people wasn't considered a waste of time back then. It was a privilege to play 3d animated D&D with people from across the country and across the planet, something everyone had in common. That connection is taken for granted now. Imagine life without the internet.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
People that love camping isn't everyone. When I hear you all talking about how long you would spend camping a spawn point, I think to myself "I'm glad I never played that game." I consider camping for hours on end to be a waste of my time. As for difficulty and the comment about how "rare" items should be done, I agree.
"Camping" has just moved. People camp social media these days instead of spawn points
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Yes old school MMOs are dead for good reasons, who want to camp a boss camp for hours, or farm some mob for weeks for just one drop you need, yes it was cool in the old days when MMO was new and you didn't know any better.
There is so many games out there you can try and play yes enjoy, It's hardly dead, so the thing is It's the old geezers mentality that is dead not the genre.
I believe you have underestimated MMO's. Here is a recent release on Steam:
So millennials say everything online is an MMO and they're doing great, I don't see it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
When I hear you all talking about how long you would spend camping a spawn point, I think to myself "I'm glad I never played that game." I consider camping for hours on end to be a waste of my time.
Getting to know people wasn't considered a waste of time back then. It was a privilege to play 3d animated D&D with people from across the country and across the planet, something everyone had in common. That connection is taken for granted now. Imagine life without the internet.
That's the thing, they don't know life without the internet. Or cable. or computers.
Camping was fun back then. It was very social. Very chill. It didn't seem "just" about getting the gearz and moving on as quickly as possible.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I hope none of you complaining about how MMORPGs use to be, never complain about mobile games.
This is where all the console gamers sit up and our younger PC rig owners with them. Having not seen the effect new platforms and monetary system have had in the past they see nothing wrong with today. But they are not so short sighted as to realise the huge impact mobile has already had on what games come out and how they are paid for.
Comments
It misses obviously mainstream devs as far large-budget and large-resources go to create something new in current-gen standards. That is what is so dead.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Since a single UO, EQ1, AC, DAoC and arguably not even EQ2 or WoW could support a crapload of players total let alone the numbers there were after splitting them were split into zones / realms. And when you managed to get the heady heights of c. 100 people together it .... be.... ca...me .... a ...la..g..f...e...s...t.
MMOs are the ancestors of Social Media, in a way. They were amazing tools for being social and meeting new people. Now that Social Media fulfills that in its own way, sociability it's no longer a particular feature/function that gets as much attention or thought.
Two posts; opposite poles.
One of the attractions of early mmos was indeed the ability to communicate with others. It was a pretty novel experience back then.
Unlike today were it is possible to play any game - multiplayer, single player, tic-tac-toe! even - whilst being fully engaged and closely bonded with a circle of friends with whom one can have far greater social interaction than anything that was possible in the early days of mmos.
And I see no reason to believe that "old school gamers" who were attracted to early mmos for this reason won't have moved with technology to embrace the far richer opportunities that are now available to communicate.
Almost reminds me of a "people don't write anymore" whilst ignoring the fact that people can be in day-to-day, face-to-face communication with people all over the world. Ah but they don'y write letters you know so they miss out on the .... wtf!
Why may that be a bad thing? Perhaps people believe it then waters down quality? Maybe, but I don't particularly think so. I reckon we've only seen an increase in terms of quality.
1 You don't NEED to camp ANY boss unless your playing a crappy Wowish gear based game.I want the game to cater to the PLAYER not the gear.
2 Camping was done to garner xp and imo is a much better option because it involves "group" "team work" "class skills" and if a well designed combat involves other aspects such as type of weapon used and type of classes used.
3 Now an important aspect of game design that again MOST do NOT do correctly and simply dumb down any VALUABLE meaning gear has.This would be the INSTANCE and RARE ideas.
An item cannot be considered rare if everyone can easily get it by doing an instance which in essence means a million players could all have the same drop within the first hour.so much for rare or valuable.
You do valuable gear in an OPEN environment and YES you do have to camp it because that item SHOULD be RARE...valuable and meant to be EARNED,competed for instead of just running an instance 10x.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Fuck her damn bifocals.
I have gaming glasses and driving glasses now and love them both. Ha! I was right and she was wrong. Can see the screen real good.
My first game was Final Fantasy 11 and I don't know if that is considered an old mmo or not. It had that camping a mob all day for one ingredient in a recipe only to get the mob stole from you if it finally spawned and you were to slow.
Old school equates PAIN to me.
FFXI also had where we were forced to party together to level up. And if your party wiped you all deleveled. Omg the violent onslaught of verbal abuse if you, the healer, let your party down. Note it is always the healer's fault. In those kinds of parties I was the healer cause I'm damn good at it. Never my fault. *wink* *wink*
As far as gaming in general I started with Sim Ant, Sim Park, Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim, and Wolfenstein 3D the freakn DOS version.
Trust me, your eye doctor was right.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MAGA
Hell, I was MMO gaming around the vanilla WoW and Guild Wars 1 launch, and I'm still in my 20s.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Me: Just get on with it mate.
Look at how long the mmorpg list is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_games
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
In other words, some individuals will step back and say, "Whoa, this is too much. I need filter my life down, pick out the important pieces and let the rest go."
But people in general, not a chance.
Which is why we'll never get back to the "good old days" of MMORPG's where people would camp a boss spawn all night and actually have fun doing it. In modern society, after waiting for that boss for more than 45 seconds half your players will get fidgety, start thinking about what other forms of entertainment they're missing out on at the moment, and then you've lost them.
"Sorry guys, gotta run, something came up."
*player x has left the group*
No, there is no solution anymore. Society has simply taken a hard turn in general and those kinds of games will only ever be a niche activity enjoyed by a few people who have remembered how to slow down and not get swept up in the current of hype.
That's just my opinion. If I'm proven wrong in the future, then I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
https://store.steampowered.com/app/616920/BatMUD/
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Camping was fun back then. It was very social. Very chill. It didn't seem "just" about getting the gearz and moving on as quickly as possible.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo