EQ2 graphics look good too

delete5230

Been watching some EQ2 videos, and some graphics and animation looks on par with Pantheon.

I don't mean it as a dig, just supersizing how that game held up in some spots.....Honestly I like the mob fighting speed for groups, tactical yet faster. 



Ruins of Varsoon... watch this in 1080P

Dullahan

Graphics of EQ2 look nothing like that of Pantheon. Art is subjective, but texture resolutions are not. Animations still WIP but have made big improvements in the last year.

GameboyMarc

I like the look and feel of Ultima Online more than EQ2. Though I mostly play ESO and Lord Of The Rings Online.

Gutlard

P2W potions!? GTFO! Video Stopped. Opinion irrelevant! 

Gut Out!

Amathe

Dullahan said:

Graphics of EQ2 look nothing like that of Pantheon. Art is subjective, but texture resolutions are not. Animations still WIP but have made big improvements in the last year.

WB! Have not seen you post in a while. 

Mikeha

Take EQ2 and to a visual upgrade on it and you have Patheon. 

Sewtery

The balance will always be between great graphics and number of players on a single server.  I think pantheon us going to struggle to have a few number people on a server based on their engine.

delete5230

DMKano said:

Eq2 gameplay and Pantheon gameplay should be polar opposites. 

Remember that Pantheon is based on EQ1 concepts and gameplay not EQ2.

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 would tell you which mobs were linked when you selected one it would show the entire group - in EQ1 split pulling and aggro where a game in itself and you had to learn by mob spacing and trial and error how to split rooms etc...

Crow control alone in EQ1 was far far deeper than anything in EQ2 - with stuns mem blurs, pacify, roots, feign death, charm etc.... it gave a ton of different approaches to splitting and aggro depending on group makeup.

Interesting,
I like how EQ2 plays much faster than what we see in Pantheon, it seems as it stands the players or groups will never get much accomplished in a play session.

Then add other group interference because of the slowness.  If each SMALL battle lest upwards of 5 minuets, theirs bound to be intrusive behavior, after all you can't predict other players actions.

I like what your saying about EQ1's dynamics as opposed to EQ2, that sounds great.... But would like fights to be faster or timed someplace in between. 

TEKK3N

EQ2 has all animations in place, Pantheon has only the basic.

Pantheon combat is slow, we know that, but it looks so boring because it misses all animations.

Give it a rest Delete.

Tanist

delete5230 said:

Been watching some EQ2 videos, and some graphics and animation looks on par with Pantheon.

I don't mean it as a dig, just supersizing how that game held up in some spots.....Honestly I like the mob fighting speed for groups, tactical yet faster. 



Ruins of Varsoon... watch this in 1080P

EQ 2 was a spam fest and got worse over the years. This was Smed's direction in MMO gaming and it showed.  Its combat was far too fast. It was caught between the styles of EQ and WoW never fully committing to either over the years. While some aspects of its design were innovative, it contributed to a lot of the problems of MMO gaming today, as well as becoming one of the first games to sell out full to RMT. There was a reason many EQ players didn't bother with it and why it flopped on release. 

I beta'd it, and could never really enjoy it due to its excessive instancing/zoning, the clunky aspect of its combat and its closed off Planes of Power style of keyed/achievement design. Even when later on it opened up the zones, it started to emulate modern MMOs far too much to even make it an option for those trying to avoid mainstream. Now the game is just a WoW spam fest of boring face rolling button smashing. 

Adamantine

... and ?!?!?

I dont avoid EQ2 because of its graphics.

I care about no other aspect as little as graphics. Rulesystem, user interface, story content quality - all are more important than graphics.

A MMORPG is a game you're supposed to be able to enjoy longterm. Thus rulesystem quality is paramount. You cannot tolerate shortcomings in that area. If combat itself is complex, balanced, and engaging, you have won so much with a MMO in which you will fight a lot, all the time. Also you wont really play a game longterm if the user interface keeps opposing you. And while story isnt strong in MMOs, because you have such a huge game world, I'd still prefer better story content over better graphics.

In short, the easier the graphics, the easier it is to have more content.

Specifically EQ2 is a "cram anything into it without actually thinking about it" game. Thats what I cant stand about it. Lack of a real concept, a real structure. Nobody has really thought this game through.

While if somebody would release a game that had inferior graphics to the original Vanguard, but still decent enough graphics, and had these well designed classes and a decent enough gameworld, I'd certainly play that.

Adamantine

TEKK3N said:

Give it a rest Delete.

LOL, fat chance for that one.

lahnmir

I played EQ2 despite its graphics...

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Kyarra

I always loved EQ2, and it's graphic style. I am hopefully optimistic about Pantheon.

Belgaraath

Adamantine said:

... and ?!?!?

I dont avoid EQ2 because of its graphics.

I care about no other aspect as little as graphics. Rulesystem, user interface, story content quality - all are more important than graphics.

A MMORPG is a game you're supposed to be able to enjoy longterm. Thus rulesystem quality is paramount. You cannot tolerate shortcomings in that area. If combat itself is complex, balanced, and engaging, you have won so much with a MMO in which you will fight a lot, all the time. Also you wont really play a game longterm if the user interface keeps opposing you. And while story isnt strong in MMOs, because you have such a huge game world, I'd still prefer better story content over better graphics.

In short, the easier the graphics, the easier it is to have more content.

Specifically EQ2 is a "cram anything into it without actually thinking about it" game. Thats what I cant stand about it. Lack of a real concept, a real structure. Nobody has really thought this game through.

While if somebody would release a game that had inferior graphics to the original Vanguard, but still decent enough graphics, and had these well designed classes and a decent enough gameworld, I'd certainly play that.

I completely disagree. As someone who likes to explore new worlds, if they look like shit then the game mechanics mean little to me.

TwoTubes

keithian said:

Adamantine said:

... and ?!?!?

I dont avoid EQ2 because of its graphics.

I care about no other aspect as little as graphics. Rulesystem, user interface, story content quality - all are more important than graphics.

A MMORPG is a game you're supposed to be able to enjoy longterm. Thus rulesystem quality is paramount. You cannot tolerate shortcomings in that area. If combat itself is complex, balanced, and engaging, you have won so much with a MMO in which you will fight a lot, all the time. Also you wont really play a game longterm if the user interface keeps opposing you. And while story isnt strong in MMOs, because you have such a huge game world, I'd still prefer better story content over better graphics.

In short, the easier the graphics, the easier it is to have more content.

Specifically EQ2 is a "cram anything into it without actually thinking about it" game. Thats what I cant stand about it. Lack of a real concept, a real structure. Nobody has really thought this game through.

While if somebody would release a game that had inferior graphics to the original Vanguard, but still decent enough graphics, and had these well designed classes and a decent enough gameworld, I'd certainly play that.

I completely disagree. As someone who likes to explore new worlds, if they look like shit then the game mechanics mean little to me.

There will be a lot better looking games out there.  If graphics are more important than mechanics one of those other games might be a better fit.

Adamantine

TwoTubes said:

keithian said:

I completely disagree. As someone who likes to explore new worlds, if they look like shit then the game mechanics mean little to me.

There will be a lot better looking games out there.  If graphics are more important than mechanics one of those other games might be a better fit.

Exactly !

That would have been my answer, too.

MMOs, because they have to support huge gameworlds, cannot have the best graphics among all games.

Tanist

keithian said:

I completely disagree. As someone who likes to explore new worlds, if they look like shit then the game mechanics mean little to me.

That is obviously subjective, but... game play without graphics is still game, but graphics without game play is... well what is it? Entertainment?

Maybe that is the problem today? They make games for "Entertainment" (ie to dazzle the senses) rather than attending to the original concepts of what a game is?

I know for me, I can enjoy a game with a pencil and paper (as I child we used to play numerous games this way). With Text adventures (Single player) and later MUSH/MUDS, I enjoyed immensely the games of that time. With Meridian 59, UO, EQ, etc... (and many other single player games), I also enjoyed greatly game play, even though graphical standards at that time would be considered... unbearable by people today.

I enjoy games, regardless of the flashy irrelevant visuals.... I see a focus on that as not being interested in a game, but interested in being "entertained", and honestly... I think that is why games are such garbage today. They chase those who want "entertainment" over game play and what you get is cheap, shallow garbage for the easily amused.

TwoTubes

So much so that I find graphics often interfere with gameplay so I shut them off (or put them on the lowest settings).

I don't need that tall grass or shadows or reflection on the water making it more difficult to see the mobs.  If I see the danger a second later than I normally would it is a hindrance.

That was my very first reaction to the recent Faerthale stream.  Way to cluttered.  To much vegetation.  I will definitely be turning that all off. 

  I also don't think that people like the above poster who said they care about graphics more than mechanics are the type of players who will stick with Pantheon long term.  (with a pure subscription model longevity is crucial)

We already see the hype slowly starting to fade.  I'm not sure that polished graphics are the best use of time?  It is truly a race against the clock but VR doesn't seem concerned.  They say they are working as fast as possible but I'm not seeing it in what we are shown.  Polishing graphics and updating character models are not examples of a team who comprehends the current situation imo.

Phaen

I played EQ2 for a few years and then moved to Vanguard finding its graphics were a huge improvement. Neither have anything on Pantheon though, even in its current state.

Animations are another thing however, EQ2 looks pretty good as animations and movement are smoother and while not Action speed, they are quicker than Vanguard or Pantheon. On that front, I find melee classes feel really sluggish while casters seem less affected, as you kind of expect a cast to take a while. Also jump hang use to drive me insane in Vanguard, very immersion breaking. I think Speeding up melee combat in Pantheon would feel more engaging too, just so it feels like smoother gameplay rather than almost turn based combat.

I prefer a game to have good graphics, but good mechanics will keep a game going and animations have to feel good as well. Clutter is another think that can be a problem, not just in foliage but also in animation density. Not only does it crunch frame rate, but being able to see target's etc can be very difficult with a screen full of casting effects.

skeaser

DMKano said:

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 came out a couple of weeks before WoW, how did they design a game to appeal to fans of another unreleased game?

Xiaoki

skeaser said:

DMKano said:

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 came out a couple of weeks before WoW, how did they design a game to appeal to fans of another unreleased game?

Because @DMKano hates Blizzard and everything wrong in this world, from famine to the Corona virus,  is their fault.

Any chance to blame WoW, and Blizzard in general, for anything at all will be taken even if it doesn't make sense.

LackingMMO

Xiaoki said:

skeaser said:

DMKano said:

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 came out a couple of weeks before WoW, how did they design a game to appeal to fans of another unreleased game?

Because @DMKano hates Blizzard and everything wrong in this world, from famine to the Corona virus,  is their fault.

Any chance to blame WoW, and Blizzard in general, for anything at all will be taken even if it doesn't make sense.

Actually at launch eq2 was VERY different. It was changed when WoW started taking off into what it became now. I even remember reading that smead and them were playing WoW as opposed to EQ2. Sure enough a lot of the changes that came turned eq2 from eq2 to a wack wow.

Xiaoki

LackingMMO said:

Xiaoki said:

skeaser said:

DMKano said:

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 came out a couple of weeks before WoW, how did they design a game to appeal to fans of another unreleased game?

Because @DMKano hates Blizzard and everything wrong in this world, from famine to the Corona virus,  is their fault.

Any chance to blame WoW, and Blizzard in general, for anything at all will be taken even if it doesn't make sense.

Actually at launch eq2 was VERY different. It was changed when WoW started taking off into what it became now. I even remember reading that smead and them were playing WoW as opposed to EQ2. Sure enough a lot of the changes that came turned eq2 from eq2 to a wack wow.

Every MMO is very different at launch.

I once read that John Smedley killed a man just to watch him die and had sex with a camel. I read that on the internet of course.

Any developer that doesn't pay attention to the competition is destined to failure. That's exactly how we got the travesty that was FF14 1.0. Then, when Yoshi-P came on board he blatantly ripped off WoW and made the best MMO on the market.

Tanist

skeaser said:

DMKano said:

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 came out a couple of weeks before WoW, how did they design a game to appeal to fans of another unreleased game?

It didn't on release. EQ2 release was nothing like EQ2 is now, it was drastically redesigned on multiple levels. EQ2 however did begin to copy WoW in many of those changes over the years to the point where the game is very similar to a WoW experience today. This however isn't anything special as most companies began to copy WoW over the years.

lahnmir

Tanist said:

skeaser said:

DMKano said:

EQ2 was made to appeal to WoW fans - (dont get me wrong EQ1 was made a ton easier over the years as well) but I am talking about early EQ1 vs early EQ2.

EQ2 came out a couple of weeks before WoW, how did they design a game to appeal to fans of another unreleased game?

It didn't on release. EQ2 release was nothing like EQ2 is now, it was drastically redesigned on multiple levels. EQ2 however did begin to copy WoW in many of those changes over the years to the point where the game is very similar to a WoW experience today. This however isn't anything special as most companies began to copy WoW over the years.

I would say that the “new” EQ2 is/was also a lot better then the EQ2 initially released. I thought it was a mess back then tbh.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir