Eso is has a lot to offer 4 man pvp, large faction fights, pve solo delvs, pve 4man, pve 12 man. Currently you can make any class do enough to tank heal or dps any calling dps heal tank and content.
It does seem as though making a game with everything would be too overwhelming a task to be done properly, even by skilled developers.
But here's the problem. MMO players are already a niche audience. Add onto that that there are many fragmented sub-audiences within the general MMO audience: pvp vs pve, sandbox vs themepark, sci-fi vs fantasy, solo-grinders vs groupers, etc. And generally these sub-audiences are at odds with each other wanting as little to do with the other as possible!
So basically your choice is either make an "everything mmo" to appeal to everyone and most likely do a crappy job at it, or make a quality niche mmo but still fail because your sub-audience is too small and not worth the investment and cost to maintain the mmo. And most likely you'd still do a crappy job because mmo's are the toughest most expensive games to make anyways.
MMO development is stuck between a rock and a hard place because of this I think
Yes, the industry is stuck, but only because they desire numbers that aren't there anymore. 15 years ago (pre-WoW) many MMORPGs survived and thrived with fewer players. EQ 1 was praised for having over 400K players. Great numbers for a niche hobby, I think. And every one of those players paid to play
Big business today doesn't want such "paltry" numbers like that anymore. And they especially don't want it over any extended period of time. They want maximum millions now. They want their investment back in 60 days or less. How do they do it? Whales. Players who spend many times more than a measly $15/month.
While I feel the sympathy for the position gaming companies are in, I blame them for painting themselves into a corner.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
EverQuest also only cost 10 million to make. How many multiple tens of millions would the developer need to spend in order to get 400 thousand players today subscribing?
Does that math add up now?
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
EverQuest also only cost 10 million to make. How many multiple tens of millions would the developer need to spend in order to get 400 thousand players today subscribing?
Does that math add up now?
GW2 is roughly making the same amount of sales as EQ when it have 400k players.
When I played EQ, I would describe myself then as a casual player who played a lot.
I knew hundreds of people like me on my server who were casual or moderately casual. They were having a good time.
Meanwhile, the raid guilds were doing their thing. We weren't bothering them, nor they us.
Somehow the idea has taken root that casuals and hardcore players can't co-exist and need to play different games. That is pure rubbish. And in my opinion, any game developer that can't make content for different types of players in the same game isn't competent to make games at all.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
When I played EQ, I would describe myself then as a casual player who played a lot.
I knew hundreds of people like me on my server who were casual or moderately casual. They were having a good time.
Meanwhile, the raid guilds were doing their thing. We weren't bothering them, nor they us.
Somehow the idea has taken root that casuals and hardcore players can't co-exist and need to play different games. That is pure rubbish. And in my opinion, any game developer that can't make content for different types of players in the same game isn't competent to make games at all.
To be fair, the "Casual" of the EQ era, would have been the HCMF of today's era.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
To be fair, the "Casual" of the EQ era, would have been the HCMF of today's era.
Some yes, I agree. But there were a lot who were casual by any standard. For example, there was a girl in my guild, a druid, and she mostly liked to cook and hand out food to her friends. That was her thing. She soloed a lot and joined small guild groups. But mostly, she cooked. Plus she was great to talk to.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
To be fair, the "Casual" of the EQ era, would have been the HCMF of today's era.
Some yes, I agree. But there were a lot who were casual by any standard. For example, there was a girl in my guild, a druid, and she mostly liked to cook and hand out food to her friends. That was her thing. She soloed a lot and joined small guild groups. But mostly, she cooked. Plus she was great to talk to.
But was she really a girl, or maybe a G.I.R.L.
Back before voice chat became popular you didn't always know for sure.
Had a "girl" in my first L1 guild who we didn't know was actually male until he had been in the guild for over 4 months.
The single guys who hit on "her" regularly, showering "her" with free stuff sure felt awkward after that.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To be fair, the "Casual" of the EQ era, would have been the HCMF of today's era.
Some yes, I agree. But there were a lot who were casual by any standard. For example, there was a girl in my guild, a druid, and she mostly liked to cook and hand out food to her friends. That was her thing. She soloed a lot and joined small guild groups. But mostly, she cooked. Plus she was great to talk to.
IIRC, maxing cooking was no easy task, well maxing anything was no easy task.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The problem is making classes different and balanced for every class.
In the old days, the best games were not balanced and way more fun.
They made rock paper scissors with like 5 classes where 2 u would most likely beat 2 who would most likely beat you and 1 dead even.
Do most MMO players really want a perfectly balanced game ??? I dont think so. If so why have different races and class options and builds and hero-champion point systems?
Most players in mmos in truth want to play a class that has some advantage to their play style and is the flavor of the month. Some Dev teams have caught onto this and keep changing things to keep the players changing meta builds to stay current because they use the cash shop to do it.
I understand what you are saying, but I think the massive popularity of games like Fortnight, do show that players who enjoy PvP, do in fact want balanced game platform, where their skill as a player is what shines through, not that they Made a Munchkin Ivisi-Class, Equipped the Massive Pink Phallic Thrusty-Thing, and maxed ranks in Surprise-Buttsecks.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Big business today doesn't want such "paltry" numbers like that anymore. And they especially don't want it over any extended period of time. They want maximum millions now. They want their investment back in 60 days or less. How do they do it? Whales. Players who spend many times more than a measly $15/month.
While I feel the sympathy for the position gaming companies are in, I blame them for painting themselves into a corner.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Does that math add up now?
GW2 is roughly making the same amount of sales as EQ when it have 400k players.
I knew hundreds of people like me on my server who were casual or moderately casual. They were having a good time.
Meanwhile, the raid guilds were doing their thing. We weren't bothering them, nor they us.
Somehow the idea has taken root that casuals and hardcore players can't co-exist and need to play different games. That is pure rubbish. And in my opinion, any game developer that can't make content for different types of players in the same game isn't competent to make games at all.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Back before voice chat became popular you didn't always know for sure.
Had a "girl" in my first L1 guild who we didn't know was actually male until he had been in the guild for over 4 months.
The single guys who hit on "her" regularly, showering "her" with free stuff sure felt awkward after that.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon