Top Secret or nothing at all ?

delete5230

Seriously, I would like to know if the true scope of Pantheon game play is kept hidden from the public for shock and awe or if Visionary Realms has nothing to show for it after six years ? 

I could respect developers keeping their project spoiler free, but six years of NOTHING AT ALL ? 

Understand backers are spending good money on blind faith and a company wishing for future revenue…… You would think the public would have the slightest clue of an overall synapses of daily life within the game…. 6 years and were in the dark of what this game is about !  

Spiritual successor to Everquest 1 yet nothing like Everquest 1.... I guess this is all we need to know. 

It's 3 am, I think I'll wake up the wife and tell her "I'm the spiritual successor of something good" and let her figure out what that means...... Do you think she will be mad ?

 

Here is Nathan with another fan video on "solo play"…… Understand Nathan lives and breaths Pantheon.  If anyone would know anything it would be him !  

13 minuets of general speculation and how to solo play generically in an mmorpg.  It's sad how the public knows NOTHING ABOUT THIS GAME !

Here watch this:

delete5230

I stand my ground on "let them work"........ But work on what ?

Wizardry

I am sold on it  just being another Everquest with a new skin only likely less a game but with nicer graphics.So imo it will be hit n miss  all over the place,some good some bad.

I already have a portfolio of great games to play in all genres so now when any game comes along ,it has to be BETTER than the rest.I am not jumping in just because it is new or i am bored or waiting for a new mmorpg to come along,it MUST be really good.

I expect to spend years within a mmorpg,if a game tells me i won't be spending years then the game won't be for me.The majority of gamer's are terrible at picking games,we typically see games spike real high then everyone starts filtering out rather quickly and on to the next hyped game.

it is almost comical to see all the new games hit #3/4/5 on Twitch for a week then is down to #25 a week or two later.You can really see how streamers are endorsing a LOT of games to the point they are way over rated.I noticed visionary realms seems to like that Carnage guy to help promote their game,i don't care for him because to me he is just another sell out to the money.

Bottom line,i highly doubt Visionary has anything we could say is top secret,just more EQ1 incoming but never being as good as FFXI at doing the same thing.

delete5230

Wizardry said:

I am sold on it  just being another Everquest with a new skin only likely less a game but with nicer graphics.So imo it will be hit n miss  all over the place,some good some bad.

I already have a portfolio of great games to play in all genres so now when any game comes along ,it has to be BETTER than the rest.I am not jumping in just because it is new or i am bored or waiting for a new mmorpg to come along,it MUST be really good.

I expect to spend years within a mmorpg,if a game tells me i won't be spending years then the game won't be for me.The majority of gamer's are terrible at picking games,we typically see games spike real high then everyone starts filtering out rather quickly and on to the next hyped game.

it is almost comical to see all the new games hit #3/4/5 on Twitch for a week then is down to #25 a week or two later.You can really see how streamers are endorsing a LOT of games to the point they are way over rated.I noticed visionary realms seems to like that Carnage guy to help promote their game,i don't care for him because to me he is just another sell out to the money.

Bottom line,i highly doubt Visionary has anything we could say is top secret,just more EQ1 incoming but never being as good as FFXI at doing the same thing.

See that's the thing,
Some of the self appointed experts would say it will be different but can't explain how, other experts would agree with you...... No one knows anything AT ALL. 

Pages and pages of fluff.

lahnmir

There is nothing interesting to see, said the blind man.

There are no great things to hear, said the deaf man.

There is nothing known about Pantheon, said Delete5230.

Mmmhmmmmlllm mmhmm llmm, said the mute.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Brizlyn

Wizardry said:

I am sold on it  just being another Everquest with a new skin only likely less a game but with nicer graphics.So imo it will be hit n miss  all over the place,some good some bad.

I already have a portfolio of great games to play in all genres so now when any game comes along ,it has to be BETTER than the rest.I am not jumping in just because it is new or i am bored or waiting for a new mmorpg to come along,it MUST be really good.

I expect to spend years within a mmorpg,if a game tells me i won't be spending years then the game won't be for me.The majority of gamer's are terrible at picking games,we typically see games spike real high then everyone starts filtering out rather quickly and on to the next hyped game.

it is almost comical to see all the new games hit #3/4/5 on Twitch for a week then is down to #25 a week or two later.You can really see how streamers are endorsing a LOT of games to the point they are way over rated.I noticed visionary realms seems to like that Carnage guy to help promote their game,i don't care for him because to me he is just another sell out to the money.

Bottom line,i highly doubt Visionary has anything we could say is top secret,just more EQ1 incoming but never being as good as FFXI at doing the same thing.

Well Cohh claims doesn't get paid to promote Pantheon, and I actually believe him.  He is a hardcore Everquest fan and still plays EQ.  I have been watching some EQ streams where Cohh happened to be in the raid when he's not even streaming.  The guy really is hoping for a new modern EQ like experience.

As for Delete's Pantheon obsession and manic mood changes, we do know a lot about the game, but I will say every week/month that goes by without an advance to Alpha/Beta increases the chances that the game doesn't actually make release.

Sure the studio is small, but games like New World and Ashes of Creation both started development after Pantheon, and one is fully releasing in May while the other has officially announced an alpha start in May.

Hoping Delete's comment about maybe there is a vast amount of content they're not showing could be true, but I doubt it.  They probably have some zones partially build that we haven't seen, but it feels like not much more than that, based on past streams and comments in the recent developer streams.

bentrim

Has anyone ever heard of EQ NEXT????

Kyleran

Sigh, why do you continue to pointlessly call them out here, serves no purpose as they likely are totally unaware of the going ons here.

Besides, enough people call them out regularly on their own forums which the Patheon dev team clearly has no issue ignoring, letting the mods utterly squash the more caustic posts demanding such public transparency.

CU is coming up on 7 years, very little shared publically, with game testers who paid for the "priviledge" totally bound by an NDA.

Pantheon has such a program, kick in $1K and I'm sure you be the first to see what they've been up to when they are ready to reveal something.

As for public info, staying dark probably  serves their interest as the "best" video game is the promised one which exists in everyone's imagination before the cold harsh light of reality falls on it.

delete5230

Kyleran said:

Sigh, why do you continue to pointlessly call them out here, serves no purpose as they likely are totally unaware of the going ons here.

Besides, enough people call them out regularly on their own forums which the Patheon dev team clearly has no issue ignoring, letting the mods utterly squash the more caustic posts demanding such public transparency.

CU is coming up on 7 years, very little shared publically, with game testers who paid for the "priviledge" totally bound by an NDA.

Pantheon has such a program, kick in $1K and I'm sure you be the first to see what they've been up to when they are ready to reveal something.

As for public info, staying dark probably  serves their interest as the "best" video game is the promised one which exists in everyone's imagination before the cold harsh light of reality falls on it.

Your right I'm planning on giving up on this crusade, just when I've seen Nathan with a solo video, I thought he had something to show.  Turns out nothing at all..... 6 years and we haven't a clue on this game.

Anyway, your right. 

TwoTubes

Agreed.  At the rate progress is being made, the likelihood of making it to release gets smaller and smaller with each passing month.

Ive given up asking questions on the forums.  99% of what is discussed there is rehashing old conversations.  

The bi-weekly videos that were supposed to go a long way to updating the community have been entirely disappointing.

  All the videos show is how unproffesional the team is.  

Adamantine

I'm pretty pessimistic now about the game.

When I still was playing Vanguard and McQuaid came back, we some some immediate and great changes, like really good new questlines.

Instead of the grind they had introduced before.

But without such an exceptional game designer, what can we expect now ?

Utinni

The scope of the game is what they've already showed. Group based dungeons with trinity + support classes. The only things that will change between now and launch are more zones, items, and class changes. What you've seen in the dev streams for the past 2+ years is what the game is.

I feel like you've asked this question before and everyone told you this. Nothing is coming down the pipeline that is going to drastically change anything you've seen from this game.

newbismx

I think its a really good and valid question OP.

I wonder much the same- This is a game (in theory) I want to play and up until recently I had some hope that it could be pulled off.

I dont play the Kickstart/EA gamble though and from what I've seen my decision once again has saved me some sheckles and frustration.

Adamantine

Smed is a CEO.

They already have a CEO.

Thats not the issue.

Theocritus

I think this game lost its heart and soul when Brad passed away.....They may still get a game out some day but my expectations have dropped considerably.

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

I stand my ground on "let them work"........ But work on what ?

You were walking away, remember?

Scot

I think by now we have to change our expectations on what we expect from a CF MMO, you need to think about the games budget and the size of its team. We have done threads on here before about the effect on quality having a low budget had for F2P MMOs. The same factors are at work here, this is not AAA. I think we may have to wait another five years before all the ones we talk about are out of the door.

Iselin

Scot said:

I think by now we have to change our expectations on what we expect from a CF MMO, you need to think about the games budget and the size of its team. We have done threads on here before about the effect on quality having a low budget had for F2P MMOs. The same factors are at work here, this is not AAA. I think we may have to wait another five years before all the ones we talk about are out of the door.

The length of time it takes small teams to do something as large as an MMO - something AAA studios with large teams do in 6-8 years - is IMO not worth criticizing.

What IS fair game for criticism is the outlandishly goofy, world-record-beating speed they all project when they begin their crowdfunding campaigns simply because saying 3 years will get them more interest and funds than saying 9 years. Granted they're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place: if they're honest and realistic with their estimates they'll get much less interest. So they lie

Adamantine

Its not like theres any other MMO out there thats tempting me.

Utinni

Theocritus said:

I think this game lost its heart and soul when Brad passed away.....They may still get a game out some day but my expectations have dropped considerably.

People give brad way too much credit. Seems like most folks think he single-handedly created everquest and vanguard. With pantheon he seemed like the least passionate person on the team.

Tanist

I saw this coming years ago, even warned Brad about how as they made the game more visual friendly to the acceptance of mainstream, the same people downing it would all of a sudden show interest (hence this game is now number 1 on a mainstream MMO site). In that, you would end up with demands for more and more mainstream features, designs, etc... until the point where if they catered to it, you would get another mainstream MMO with all the same elements that destroyed previous games. 

In the beginning, I had hopes for it, while waiting off a while (due to a mistrust with people and companies today), I eventually donated to it, but after some interactions with the community on the site and its leadership, I honestly have come to the conclusion this game will be just another bland attempt at marketing off old concepts that are nothing more than illusions cast over mainstream designs. 

There is too much money to be made from mainstream and as many previous products have shown, a hyped failed MMO can make big money. I see no difference with Pantheon. I see the developers who seem to misunderstand all the key elements that made EQ what it was, chasing the favor of mainstream development concepts and completely missing the point. 

I see mistakes in easy travel, soft death penalties, class design/balance catering, raids (mainstream end game pandering going against the initial "journey" design), DPS as a class role (all classes do damage, making damage a "role" will force class balance ideology, PvP (which, most people don't realize WILL have an effect on class balancing as they design their original classes and over time, ie class homogenization, wise up people!), and questing designs being click fests without any real intelligent interaction, discovery, or exploration, soloing (to avoid angering the mainstream players), excessive attention to visuals over game play design (mainstream pandering), the delusion that "community" was the main focus of success in EQ and should be the driving point of this games design, FTP (afraid to stand on the games own merit) as is evident by the constant questions on past concepts that were previously settled and the numerous videos and discussions, it is obvious they are shifting gears (and have been for a while) to attend to mainstream. 

Then there is the bulk of the subscribed crowd being mostly EQOA (console players), FFXI, WoW players, etc.. who all claim they like original concepts of game difficulty and design, yet continue to advocate for modern convenience of mainstream games (while driving away any of the original adults from EQ who point out the conflicts in such arguments) and the SJW crowd who get offended at every disagreement and run off to the community manager (who doesn't even understand his own forum policies) to have them ban anyone who does not toe the line of the current mainstream dogma or "community" ire. 


To be honest, I can't blame them (if their goal is purely money) as even a failed hyped gimmick to mainstream will make far more money than a niche game will. A few months of appealing to everyone will pay off for investors and then the skeleton of the game can be used like a parasite on players who cling to it for years more.  

I am sure the game will be a resounding success (for the first few months or so, maybe more) and it will do quite well, but it won't be because it identifies with the original soul of what made EQ great, nope... it will be because it rode the backs of core EQ fans while it built up momentum to sell to its real audience, mainstream. 

Fact is, I would have preferred the game be released at its initial released state of graphics (with the stock unity models) and the original proclaimed design goals than the bland product that I see today which is nothing more than a mainstream game hidden behind hopeful marketing. /shrug

goldwheat

Tanist said:

Fact is, I would have preferred the game be released at its initial released state of graphics (with the stock unity models) and the original proclaimed design goals than the bland product that I see today which is nothing more than a mainstream game hidden behind hopeful marketing. /shrug

Yep, that would have made them money over time, just like all the other games that have gone with a paid early access model.  MMO's are one of the few types of games where this actually works, and you can just release zones and features as development proceeds.  They had a playable game in 2016, but here we are in 2020 with nothing more.  Wasted opportunity, once again.

TwoTubes

Tanist said:

I saw this coming years ago, even warned Brad about how as they made the game more visual friendly to the acceptance of mainstream, the same people downing it would all of a sudden show interest (hence this game is now number 1 on a mainstream MMO site). In that, you would end up with demands for more and more mainstream features, designs, etc... until the point where if they catered to it, you would get another mainstream MMO with all the same elements that destroyed previous games. 

In the beginning, I had hopes for it, while waiting off a while (due to a mistrust with people and companies today), I eventually donated to it, but after some interactions with the community on the site and its leadership, I honestly have come to the conclusion this game will be just another bland attempt at marketing off old concepts that are nothing more than illusions cast over mainstream designs. 

There is too much money to be made from mainstream and as many previous products have shown, a hyped failed MMO can make big money. I see no difference with Pantheon. I see the developers who seem to misunderstand all the key elements that made EQ what it was, chasing the favor of mainstream development concepts and completely missing the point. 

I see mistakes in easy travel, soft death penalties, class design/balance catering, raids (mainstream end game pandering going against the initial "journey" design), DPS as a class role (all classes do damage, making damage a "role" will force class balance ideology, PvP (which, most people don't realize WILL have an effect on class balancing as they design their original classes and over time, ie class homogenization, wise up people!), and questing designs being click fests without any real intelligent interaction, discovery, or exploration, soloing (to avoid angering the mainstream players), excessive attention to visuals over game play design (mainstream pandering), the delusion that "community" was the main focus of success in EQ and should be the driving point of this games design, FTP (afraid to stand on the games own merit) as is evident by the constant questions on past concepts that were previously settled and the numerous videos and discussions, it is obvious they are shifting gears (and have been for a while) to attend to mainstream. 

Then there is the bulk of the subscribed crowd being mostly EQOA (console players), FFXI, WoW players, etc.. who all claim they like original concepts of game difficulty and design, yet continue to advocate for modern convenience of mainstream games (while driving away any of the original adults from EQ who point out the conflicts in such arguments) and the SJW crowd who get offended at every disagreement and run off to the community manager (who doesn't even understand his own forum policies) to have them ban anyone who does not toe the line of the current mainstream dogma or "community" ire. 


To be honest, I can't blame them (if their goal is purely money) as even a failed hyped gimmick to mainstream will make far more money than a niche game will. A few months of appealing to everyone will pay off for investors and then the skeleton of the game can be used like a parasite on players who cling to it for years more.  

I am sure the game will be a resounding success (for the first few months or so, maybe more) and it will do quite well, but it won't be because it identifies with the original soul of what made EQ great, nope... it will be because it rode the backs of core EQ fans while it built up momentum to sell to its real audience, mainstream. 

Fact is, I would have preferred the game be released at its initial released state of graphics (with the stock unity models) and the original proclaimed design goals than the bland product that I see today which is nothing more than a mainstream game hidden behind hopeful marketing. /shrug

Someone else who has followed closely enough to understand what is happening.  Very well stated. 

100% Truth.

Maybe try Saga of Lucemia?

newbismx

TwoTubes said:

Tanist said:

I saw this coming years ago, even warned Brad about how as they made the game more visual friendly to the acceptance of mainstream, the same people downing it would all of a sudden show interest (hence this game is now number 1 on a mainstream MMO site). In that, you would end up with demands for more and more mainstream features, designs, etc... until the point where if they catered to it, you would get another mainstream MMO with all the same elements that destroyed previous games. 

In the beginning, I had hopes for it, while waiting off a while (due to a mistrust with people and companies today), I eventually donated to it, but after some interactions with the community on the site and its leadership, I honestly have come to the conclusion this game will be just another bland attempt at marketing off old concepts that are nothing more than illusions cast over mainstream designs. 

There is too much money to be made from mainstream and as many previous products have shown, a hyped failed MMO can make big money. I see no difference with Pantheon. I see the developers who seem to misunderstand all the key elements that made EQ what it was, chasing the favor of mainstream development concepts and completely missing the point. 

I see mistakes in easy travel, soft death penalties, class design/balance catering, raids (mainstream end game pandering going against the initial "journey" design), DPS as a class role (all classes do damage, making damage a "role" will force class balance ideology, PvP (which, most people don't realize WILL have an effect on class balancing as they design their original classes and over time, ie class homogenization, wise up people!), and questing designs being click fests without any real intelligent interaction, discovery, or exploration, soloing (to avoid angering the mainstream players), excessive attention to visuals over game play design (mainstream pandering), the delusion that "community" was the main focus of success in EQ and should be the driving point of this games design, FTP (afraid to stand on the games own merit) as is evident by the constant questions on past concepts that were previously settled and the numerous videos and discussions, it is obvious they are shifting gears (and have been for a while) to attend to mainstream. 

Then there is the bulk of the subscribed crowd being mostly EQOA (console players), FFXI, WoW players, etc.. who all claim they like original concepts of game difficulty and design, yet continue to advocate for modern convenience of mainstream games (while driving away any of the original adults from EQ who point out the conflicts in such arguments) and the SJW crowd who get offended at every disagreement and run off to the community manager (who doesn't even understand his own forum policies) to have them ban anyone who does not toe the line of the current mainstream dogma or "community" ire. 


To be honest, I can't blame them (if their goal is purely money) as even a failed hyped gimmick to mainstream will make far more money than a niche game will. A few months of appealing to everyone will pay off for investors and then the skeleton of the game can be used like a parasite on players who cling to it for years more.  

I am sure the game will be a resounding success (for the first few months or so, maybe more) and it will do quite well, but it won't be because it identifies with the original soul of what made EQ great, nope... it will be because it rode the backs of core EQ fans while it built up momentum to sell to its real audience, mainstream. 

Fact is, I would have preferred the game be released at its initial released state of graphics (with the stock unity models) and the original proclaimed design goals than the bland product that I see today which is nothing more than a mainstream game hidden behind hopeful marketing. /shrug

Someone else who has followed closely enough to understand what is happening.  Very well stated. 

100% Truth.

Maybe try Saga of Lucemia?

Probably, but I hope you guys are mistaken- This is about the only MMORPG I know about that I have some hope left for- 

I used to love playing a dedicated healer and either reaping the praise or getting my ass chewed out because I played an actual (important) role in my groups success- Having actual roles- Imagine soccer (or Football for you euros) where everyone was a goalie and a center (or whatever Europeans call the positions lol) and all of the positions were played by everyone...Thats the modern MMO.

Finding a well oiled group that works in tandem is hard but theres magic in that- Today MMORPGs are solo affairs where everyone can do everything and grouping is done via groupfinder- They arent MMORPG's to me.

The IDEA behind this is interesting and I hope it comes together- Not enough to back the game- Been down that road- But if I saw some real progress I might actually be willing to throw some sheckles- Sadly, its been years and I have seen very, very little worth throwing sheckles at beyond the initial concept.

edit-Man , I have no idea why sometime my reponse is just placed within the quote....

delete5230

TwoTubes said:

Tanist said:

I saw this coming years ago, even warned Brad about how as they made the game more visual friendly to the acceptance of mainstream, the same people downing it would all of a sudden show interest (hence this game is now number 1 on a mainstream MMO site). In that, you would end up with demands for more and more mainstream features, designs, etc... until the point where if they catered to it, you would get another mainstream MMO with all the same elements that destroyed previous games. 

In the beginning, I had hopes for it, while waiting off a while (due to a mistrust with people and companies today), I eventually donated to it, but after some interactions with the community on the site and its leadership, I honestly have come to the conclusion this game will be just another bland attempt at marketing off old concepts that are nothing more than illusions cast over mainstream designs. 

There is too much money to be made from mainstream and as many previous products have shown, a hyped failed MMO can make big money. I see no difference with Pantheon. I see the developers who seem to misunderstand all the key elements that made EQ what it was, chasing the favor of mainstream development concepts and completely missing the point. 

I see mistakes in easy travel, soft death penalties, class design/balance catering, raids (mainstream end game pandering going against the initial "journey" design), DPS as a class role (all classes do damage, making damage a "role" will force class balance ideology, PvP (which, most people don't realize WILL have an effect on class balancing as they design their original classes and over time, ie class homogenization, wise up people!), and questing designs being click fests without any real intelligent interaction, discovery, or exploration, soloing (to avoid angering the mainstream players), excessive attention to visuals over game play design (mainstream pandering), the delusion that "community" was the main focus of success in EQ and should be the driving point of this games design, FTP (afraid to stand on the games own merit) as is evident by the constant questions on past concepts that were previously settled and the numerous videos and discussions, it is obvious they are shifting gears (and have been for a while) to attend to mainstream. 

Then there is the bulk of the subscribed crowd being mostly EQOA (console players), FFXI, WoW players, etc.. who all claim they like original concepts of game difficulty and design, yet continue to advocate for modern convenience of mainstream games (while driving away any of the original adults from EQ who point out the conflicts in such arguments) and the SJW crowd who get offended at every disagreement and run off to the community manager (who doesn't even understand his own forum policies) to have them ban anyone who does not toe the line of the current mainstream dogma or "community" ire. 


To be honest, I can't blame them (if their goal is purely money) as even a failed hyped gimmick to mainstream will make far more money than a niche game will. A few months of appealing to everyone will pay off for investors and then the skeleton of the game can be used like a parasite on players who cling to it for years more.  

I am sure the game will be a resounding success (for the first few months or so, maybe more) and it will do quite well, but it won't be because it identifies with the original soul of what made EQ great, nope... it will be because it rode the backs of core EQ fans while it built up momentum to sell to its real audience, mainstream. 

Fact is, I would have preferred the game be released at its initial released state of graphics (with the stock unity models) and the original proclaimed design goals than the bland product that I see today which is nothing more than a mainstream game hidden behind hopeful marketing. /shrug

Someone else who has followed closely enough to understand what is happening.  Very well stated. 

100% Truth.

Maybe try Saga of Lucemia?

You two are not the only ones, their are a few others that really know whats happening, unfortunately the power posters here dominate this site.  

His long post tells it all about mainstream mmos changed everything and the money is in mainstream....... Pantheon should have gone with simple graphics and low cost.

I seriously believe they could have achieved a possible gem because their was no reason that first and second generation mmorpgs were no longer wanted, they SIMPLY STOPPED MAKING THEM without the public approval.   

YES...... Saga of Lucemia !!!!


It's possible VR is keeping the project "Top Secret" and is almost done, but this fantasy is only grasping at straws...... I think VR is like a bunch of fifty year old teenagers with no direction.  

bcbully

I heard theres gonna be a special announcement this week. 

Insiders tell me they are gonna announce a mobile CCG! To help with funding of course.