Age of Wushu is probably the best example of an mmorpg that really tried to pull it off and came the closest.
Most people just think something is the best based on what they have played and not what is actually available. If they played it and like it then it was the best, regardless of there being many others that do the same things and some even better. It really just comes down to personal taste.
To be fair, I can't really gauge how well a game did something, if I never played it.
For give me, this should be a quick helpful read tho.
Crime and Punishment
Capturing Criminals
Players may choose to spend Tael at the Constabulary to issue a Bounty on their enemy. Once captured, the length of imprisonment varies depending on the amount of Tael spent.
1. Players must spend a minimum of 10 Liang Tael to issue a Bounty.
2. Players free of Novice Protection may spend 5 Liang Tael to become a Constable.
3. Constables can accept Bounties and receive rewards by capturing criminals.
4. Criminals will be sent to prison after they are killed.
Constable Playing Method
Each server has a maximum of 1000 constables. Constables can attack Criminals freely. Once the Criminal is captured, the Constable will receive a reward from the person who issued the Bounty. Constables lose their status if they kill too many people, they may not apply to be a constable again until they have returned to Normal Status.
Infamy and Prison Time
Each time a player kills others, they gain Infamy. When Infamy increases the color of a player’s name changes. When the player’s name turns red they will become a wanted Criminal for all Constables. Players must lower their Infamy to under 2000 to remove themselves from Bounties.
Character Infamy and Justifiable Defense
When a normal player kills a red named player (Wanted Criminal), their Infamy only increases a little. However, if players defend themselves from an attacking player, Infamy will not increase.
Infamy Scales:
Infamy ranges from 1 to 10000, character name colors change according to where the player is on the scale: Orange, Red, and Purple.
Infamy and Constables
When a player’s Infamy reaches 2000 a Bounty will be issued by the Government, and that player may be attacked by Constables (NPCs and Players) at any time.
Criminal Hunting NPCs
Patrol NPCs: The various Guards and Patrolling Disciples found in a city, town or school.
Assassin NPCs: Hidden within cities, towns, and schools these NPCs will not attack unless there is a Red Named Criminal around.
Hunter NPCs: These hidden NPCs will attack anyone whose Infamy is above 5000.
Red Name Criminal Punishment
Any Red Named player that has been killed by an NPC or other players will be put into Prison or on Death Row. Infamy between 2000-7999 will be imprisoned, +8000 will be put on Death Row.
Punishments
Prison: Located in the five major cities (Jinling, Yanjing, Suzhou, Luoyang, and Chengdu). You must stay in prison until your Infamy reaches zero.
Death Row: You will be put on Death Row in Yanjing and decapitated the next day. Once you are decapitated your Basic Attributes will be greatly affected.
Avoid Being Punished
Orange Name: You may make donations to a “Mysterious Old Man” in each city to lower your Infamy.
Red Name: You may bribe the Prison Guards to release you early.
Purple Name: Before being decapitated you may bribe the Prison Guards and hope they will find a replacement for you.
ArcheAge has the same type is infamy system, only AA gives them a third faction (Pirates). Age of Wushu is the typical over the top Asian style game. Animations that induce seizures and huge numbers flying all over the place. Not my thing.
I see a lot of "this game did this better" and "this game did that better". I'm sure a lot of games did a lot of things better, but none of them did a combination of everything as well as DAoC did and none of they came close to putting PvE and PvP together in the same game so well.
Of all the games mentioned, if any of them re-released with the exact same mechanics but updated graphics and engine, DAoC would be the most successful. The only thing that killed DAoC is it's dated.
You forgot to put “for me” at the end of the 2nd paragraph.
Nah, it's not opinion. It's fact. The sky is blue, water is wet, DAoC combined PvE and PvP the best, dogs are awesome, the universe is vast... you know, basic facts that can't be argued against.
You forgot to put “for me” at the end of the 2nd paragraph.
Nah, it's not opinion. It's fact. The sky is blue, water is wet, DAoC combined PvE and PvP the best, dogs are awesome, the universe is vast... you know, basic facts that can't be argued against.
Thats what I was trying to point out with my post. You keep pushing your subjective opinion as an objective fact. It makes no sense trying to convince others that your opinion is right and theirs is wrong.
You can see in this thread that some people didnt like the way DAoC combined PVE and PVP.
You shared your opinion. We acknowledged it. Some of us agreed with it. Some of us did not. It is time to move on, mate.
As someone who strongly prefers PVE, the only game so far that made PVP addictive was Warhammer. Something about it, maybe because I actually committed to it lol, made it a blast. A shame the game fell apart relatively quickly. The PVE was horrendous.
Regardless, though this forum consists of so many so called PVP experts who have been playing for a couple of decades just that, most of my friends who do like PVP loved the balance between PVE and PVP in both WOW and ESO. I can't speak to the PVP in WOW because way back in 2004ish timeframe, I always avoided it, but it was fun to feel that danger in certain areas where if you enter them, you automatically got flagged for PVP. As far as ESO, I've tried it a couple of times. My former guild loved it. It's woven into the story and there are PVE things to do in that huge zone. They seem to have done the best they could consider they were being pulled in 10000 directions from everyone.
The PvP & PvE in DAOC was mediocre at best on both accounts, anyone thinking it was a holy grail of a great fusion of PvP & PVE, simply put never played a decent PvP or PvE game, but then again, that could be the exact problem, because if DAOC was in fact the best that ever was, that should be the sign that we really ought to stop trying to make these hybrid-games, as the best that ever was, really wasn't that good.
The question was .. What game combined the 2 elements (best)..
It was not what game had best one or other or which was best ever at one or other,
So , now tell us the game that infused the 2 elements together better than DAOC ....
it seems that this community feels that DAOC did the best job of that ..
If the PvE was somehow lacking, you could envisage a game where the PvE was better; the crux of the OP's question is can you envisage a game where the mix of PvP and PvP is better? No other system is as good as RvR let alone better and there is nothing about RvR that impedes the creation of great PvE content. For myself the PvE in DAOC stood well against others of that era though it was not the best.
it did ... Darkness Falls was a shining example of PVPVE content ... The RVR was and /is still really fun ..
Were/ are there games that did/do PVP better yes .. and seperatley were/are there better PVE experiences , certainly ..
Did anyone combine the 2 better .. imo .. No
Well expecting a game to have the best balance between PvE/PvP and have the best PvE of any MMORPG at the time is a rather big ask.
You forgot to put “for me” at the end of the 2nd paragraph.
Nah, it's not opinion. It's fact. The sky is blue, water is wet, DAoC combined PvE and PvP the best, dogs are awesome, the universe is vast... you know, basic facts that can't be argued against.
Thats what I was trying to point out with my post. You keep pushing your subjective opinion as an objective fact. It makes no sense trying to convince others that your opinion is right and theirs is wrong.
You can see in this thread that some people didnt like the way DAoC combined PVE and PVP.
You shared your opinion. We acknowledged it. Some of us agreed with it. Some of us did not. It is time to move on, mate.
Lighten up. It was a joke.
For what its worth, I totally agree that dogs are awesome.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Age of Wushu is probably the best example of an mmorpg that really tried to pull it off and came the closest.
Most people just think something is the best based on what they have played and not what is actually available. If they played it and like it then it was the best, regardless of there being many others that do the same things and some even better. It really just comes down to personal taste.
To be fair, I can't really gauge how well a game did something, if I never played it.
For give me, this should be a quick helpful read tho.
Crime and Punishment
Capturing Criminals
Players may choose to spend Tael at the Constabulary to issue a Bounty on their enemy. Once captured, the length of imprisonment varies depending on the amount of Tael spent.
1. Players must spend a minimum of 10 Liang Tael to issue a Bounty.
2. Players free of Novice Protection may spend 5 Liang Tael to become a Constable.
3. Constables can accept Bounties and receive rewards by capturing criminals.
4. Criminals will be sent to prison after they are killed.
Constable Playing Method
Each server has a maximum of 1000 constables. Constables can attack Criminals freely. Once the Criminal is captured, the Constable will receive a reward from the person who issued the Bounty. Constables lose their status if they kill too many people, they may not apply to be a constable again until they have returned to Normal Status.
Infamy and Prison Time
Each time a player kills others, they gain Infamy. When Infamy increases the color of a player’s name changes. When the player’s name turns red they will become a wanted Criminal for all Constables. Players must lower their Infamy to under 2000 to remove themselves from Bounties.
Character Infamy and Justifiable Defense
When a normal player kills a red named player (Wanted Criminal), their Infamy only increases a little. However, if players defend themselves from an attacking player, Infamy will not increase.
Infamy Scales:
Infamy ranges from 1 to 10000, character name colors change according to where the player is on the scale: Orange, Red, and Purple.
Infamy and Constables
When a player’s Infamy reaches 2000 a Bounty will be issued by the Government, and that player may be attacked by Constables (NPCs and Players) at any time.
Criminal Hunting NPCs
Patrol NPCs: The various Guards and Patrolling Disciples found in a city, town or school.
Assassin NPCs: Hidden within cities, towns, and schools these NPCs will not attack unless there is a Red Named Criminal around.
Hunter NPCs: These hidden NPCs will attack anyone whose Infamy is above 5000.
Red Name Criminal Punishment
Any Red Named player that has been killed by an NPC or other players will be put into Prison or on Death Row. Infamy between 2000-7999 will be imprisoned, +8000 will be put on Death Row.
Punishments
Prison: Located in the five major cities (Jinling, Yanjing, Suzhou, Luoyang, and Chengdu). You must stay in prison until your Infamy reaches zero.
Death Row: You will be put on Death Row in Yanjing and decapitated the next day. Once you are decapitated your Basic Attributes will be greatly affected.
Avoid Being Punished
Orange Name: You may make donations to a “Mysterious Old Man” in each city to lower your Infamy.
Red Name: You may bribe the Prison Guards to release you early.
Purple Name: Before being decapitated you may bribe the Prison Guards and hope they will find a replacement for you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The PvP & PvE in DAOC was mediocre at best on both accounts, anyone thinking it was a holy grail of a great fusion of PvP & PVE, simply put never played a decent PvP or PvE game, but then again, that could be the exact problem, because if DAOC was in fact the best that ever was, that should be the sign that we really ought to stop trying to make these hybrid-games, as the best that ever was, really wasn't that good.
The question was .. What game combined the 2 elements (best)..
It was not what game had best one or other or which was best ever at one or other,
So , now tell us the game that infused the 2 elements together better than DAOC ....
it seems that this community feels that DAOC did the best job of that ..
I did address your question with the line that "If DAOC was in fact the best that ever was, that should be a sign we really ought to stop trying"
and IMHO this community also seems to suffer from Rose Colored Glasses Blindness.
Personally, I think some MMO developers have started to realize the major pitfalls of MMO PvP like gear/level grinds and OP-AF-FOTM Build problems, and went about trying to fix them in more viable ways, like for example, GW2 moved away from roles for their class design and tried to fix the level and gear imbalances in their WvW/sPvP, which were all steps in the right direction, making for a better overall PvP experience in an MMO, that could be enjoyed in small group style play, and even solo-roamer, as well as the traditional large scale combat. Couple that with GW2's PvE is leagues better than DOAC ever had, so I would have to say GW2 was a better overall MMO that provided both PvP & PvE available to play.
Agreed. I can say that GW2 did it better than DAoC by a factor of 10 and I dont even like GW2. DaoC's PvE was mind numblingly boring. You can have all the right systems in place to make it work but if you can not bring them all together it is a lost cause. DAoC was a series of good ideas poorly executed in my personal opinion.
Play a pvp game or a pve game. No one will ever get it right. They are two separate types of games. The games that have had the most success with it have treated them as such.
I mean it is like there are people who like cars and people who like trucks. For people who want both you have the El Camino. We all saw how that turned out. Games that try and combine the two are the El Caminos of mmorpg genre
Not great at either being a car or a truck yet still drivable.
It has proven so hard to be good at just one or the other so stop trying to do both. No one has ever pulled it off in a fun and meaningful way to me personally.
I found your statement that PVE in DAOC is mind numbingly boring puzzling.
I have to wonder what realm(s) and class(es) you played to give you such an opinion as it's so different from my experience, especially when compared to other games of the same period.
I don't think one can make a fair comparison of combat mechanics with games of a different era, GW2 vs WAR would be better choice.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Age of Wushu is probably the best example of an mmorpg that really tried to pull it off and came the closest.
Most people just think something is the best based on what they have played and not what is actually available. If they played it and like it then it was the best, regardless of there being many others that do the same things and some even better. It really just comes down to personal taste.
To be fair, I can't really gauge how well a game did something, if I never played it.
For give me, this should be a quick helpful read tho.
Crime and Punishment
Capturing Criminals
Players may choose to spend Tael at the Constabulary to issue a Bounty on their enemy. Once captured, the length of imprisonment varies depending on the amount of Tael spent.
1. Players must spend a minimum of 10 Liang Tael to issue a Bounty.
2. Players free of Novice Protection may spend 5 Liang Tael to become a Constable.
3. Constables can accept Bounties and receive rewards by capturing criminals.
4. Criminals will be sent to prison after they are killed.
Constable Playing Method
Each server has a maximum of 1000 constables. Constables can attack Criminals freely. Once the Criminal is captured, the Constable will receive a reward from the person who issued the Bounty. Constables lose their status if they kill too many people, they may not apply to be a constable again until they have returned to Normal Status.
Infamy and Prison Time
Each time a player kills others, they gain Infamy. When Infamy increases the color of a player’s name changes. When the player’s name turns red they will become a wanted Criminal for all Constables. Players must lower their Infamy to under 2000 to remove themselves from Bounties.
Character Infamy and Justifiable Defense
When a normal player kills a red named player (Wanted Criminal), their Infamy only increases a little. However, if players defend themselves from an attacking player, Infamy will not increase.
Infamy Scales:
Infamy ranges from 1 to 10000, character name colors change according to where the player is on the scale: Orange, Red, and Purple.
Infamy and Constables
When a player’s Infamy reaches 2000 a Bounty will be issued by the Government, and that player may be attacked by Constables (NPCs and Players) at any time.
Criminal Hunting NPCs
Patrol NPCs: The various Guards and Patrolling Disciples found in a city, town or school.
Assassin NPCs: Hidden within cities, towns, and schools these NPCs will not attack unless there is a Red Named Criminal around.
Hunter NPCs: These hidden NPCs will attack anyone whose Infamy is above 5000.
Red Name Criminal Punishment
Any Red Named player that has been killed by an NPC or other players will be put into Prison or on Death Row. Infamy between 2000-7999 will be imprisoned, +8000 will be put on Death Row.
Punishments
Prison: Located in the five major cities (Jinling, Yanjing, Suzhou, Luoyang, and Chengdu). You must stay in prison until your Infamy reaches zero.
Death Row: You will be put on Death Row in Yanjing and decapitated the next day. Once you are decapitated your Basic Attributes will be greatly affected.
Avoid Being Punished
Orange Name: You may make donations to a “Mysterious Old Man” in each city to lower your Infamy.
Red Name: You may bribe the Prison Guards to release you early.
Purple Name: Before being decapitated you may bribe the Prison Guards and hope they will find a replacement for you.
I have not played this game, but I really like what you posted. I prefer regulating pvp over what I believe is the lazier approach of disallowing pvp or limiting it to specific zones. AoW devs seem to have done a thorough job designing their regulation.
Based on your experience, how effective was this mechanism? Was pking or ganking a problem, was it completely eliminated, was it rare? Where would you put it on this range.
The amazing thing about this system is culture formed with in the community. Player new what was “right and what was wrong.”
For example killing some random while farming ore was questionable. Was the gain of a few ore worth the hours they may be spent in jail? Now replace random with enemy guild or alliance that you’d be at war with in a day or two. These things must be weighed.
Another example, sure you could kill a lowbie, but that lowbie gave you nothing but infamy and posed no threat to you or your alliance. That lowbie could even be an ally in a month or two. It made no sense to the point it might as well be a sin. It was unacceptable. If this was seen there was a very good chance that the attacker would be killed. Even more so if that lowbie put a bounty on the attacker. Bounty announcements went across the world on sever system messages.
To your question of eliminating pvp, not hardly I pvp’d all day. There are plenty of other in game systems that gave reasons to kill along with broken customs. One of my favorite activities was robbing other guild supply carts.
Age of Wushu is probably the best example of an mmorpg that really tried to pull it off and came the closest.
Most people just think something is the best based on what they have played and not what is actually available. If they played it and like it then it was the best, regardless of there being many others that do the same things and some even better. It really just comes down to personal taste.
To be fair, I can't really gauge how well a game did something, if I never played it.
For give me, this should be a quick helpful read tho.
Crime and Punishment
Capturing Criminals
Players may choose to spend Tael at the Constabulary to issue a Bounty on their enemy. Once captured, the length of imprisonment varies depending on the amount of Tael spent.
1. Players must spend a minimum of 10 Liang Tael to issue a Bounty.
2. Players free of Novice Protection may spend 5 Liang Tael to become a Constable.
3. Constables can accept Bounties and receive rewards by capturing criminals.
4. Criminals will be sent to prison after they are killed.
Constable Playing Method
Each server has a maximum of 1000 constables. Constables can attack Criminals freely. Once the Criminal is captured, the Constable will receive a reward from the person who issued the Bounty. Constables lose their status if they kill too many people, they may not apply to be a constable again until they have returned to Normal Status.
Infamy and Prison Time
Each time a player kills others, they gain Infamy. When Infamy increases the color of a player’s name changes. When the player’s name turns red they will become a wanted Criminal for all Constables. Players must lower their Infamy to under 2000 to remove themselves from Bounties.
Character Infamy and Justifiable Defense
When a normal player kills a red named player (Wanted Criminal), their Infamy only increases a little. However, if players defend themselves from an attacking player, Infamy will not increase.
Infamy Scales:
Infamy ranges from 1 to 10000, character name colors change according to where the player is on the scale: Orange, Red, and Purple.
Infamy and Constables
When a player’s Infamy reaches 2000 a Bounty will be issued by the Government, and that player may be attacked by Constables (NPCs and Players) at any time.
Criminal Hunting NPCs
Patrol NPCs: The various Guards and Patrolling Disciples found in a city, town or school.
Assassin NPCs: Hidden within cities, towns, and schools these NPCs will not attack unless there is a Red Named Criminal around.
Hunter NPCs: These hidden NPCs will attack anyone whose Infamy is above 5000.
Red Name Criminal Punishment
Any Red Named player that has been killed by an NPC or other players will be put into Prison or on Death Row. Infamy between 2000-7999 will be imprisoned, +8000 will be put on Death Row.
Punishments
Prison: Located in the five major cities (Jinling, Yanjing, Suzhou, Luoyang, and Chengdu). You must stay in prison until your Infamy reaches zero.
Death Row: You will be put on Death Row in Yanjing and decapitated the next day. Once you are decapitated your Basic Attributes will be greatly affected.
Avoid Being Punished
Orange Name: You may make donations to a “Mysterious Old Man” in each city to lower your Infamy.
Red Name: You may bribe the Prison Guards to release you early.
Purple Name: Before being decapitated you may bribe the Prison Guards and hope they will find a replacement for you.
You said it previously, but I've forgotten what it was which made you walk away from this game after touting its many benefits for several years.
P2W issues or something else?
After 2.5 years of extreme play, there were several things that were things introduced that I felt negated months/years of planning by simply paying money.
The amazing thing about this system is culture formed with in the community. Player new what was “right and what was wrong.”
For example killing some random while farming ore was questionable. Was the gain of a few ore worth the hours they may be spent in jail? Now replace random with enemy guild or alliance that you’d be at war with in a day or two. These things must be weighed.
Another example, sure you could kill a lowbie, but that lowbie gave you nothing but infamy and posed no threat to you or your alliance. That lowbie could even be an ally in a month or two. It made no sense to the point it might as well be a sin. It was unacceptable. If this was seen there was a very good chance that the attacker would be killed. Even more so if that lowbie put a bounty on the attacker. Bounty announcements went across the world on sever system messages.
To your question of eliminating pvp, not hardly I pvp’d all day. There are plenty of other in game systems that gave reasons to kill along with broken customs. One of my favorite activities was robbing other guild supply carts.
This system still exists with ArcheAge. If you like it that much, you can still play a pretty good game that utilizes it. The infamy path actually leads to something in AA, becoming a Pirate, and being a pirate can actually be profitable but does result in and trial and potential jail time of caught... some Pirates are good at talking their way out of longer sentences during the trial.
At the end of the day, the PvP in these games is basically useless. It doesn't better your character of faction in any way. It's hollow; done just for sport and not for a purpose.
DAoC RvR had a purpose. It bettered your character and your realm, but not so much so that it created an unbalanced effect. It was also separate from the PvE world, but not in such a way that you lost immersion. You didn't cross an imaginary like and were suddenly in a PvP zone.
Age of Wushu is probably the best example of an mmorpg that really tried to pull it off and came the closest.
Most people just think something is the best based on what they have played and not what is actually available. If they played it and like it then it was the best, regardless of there being many others that do the same things and some even better. It really just comes down to personal taste.
To be fair, I can't really gauge how well a game did something, if I never played it.
For give me, this should be a quick helpful read tho.
Crime and Punishment
Capturing Criminals
Players may choose to spend Tael at the Constabulary to issue a Bounty on their enemy. Once captured, the length of imprisonment varies depending on the amount of Tael spent.
1. Players must spend a minimum of 10 Liang Tael to issue a Bounty.
2. Players free of Novice Protection may spend 5 Liang Tael to become a Constable.
3. Constables can accept Bounties and receive rewards by capturing criminals.
4. Criminals will be sent to prison after they are killed.
Constable Playing Method
Each server has a maximum of 1000 constables. Constables can attack Criminals freely. Once the Criminal is captured, the Constable will receive a reward from the person who issued the Bounty. Constables lose their status if they kill too many people, they may not apply to be a constable again until they have returned to Normal Status.
Infamy and Prison Time
Each time a player kills others, they gain Infamy. When Infamy increases the color of a player’s name changes. When the player’s name turns red they will become a wanted Criminal for all Constables. Players must lower their Infamy to under 2000 to remove themselves from Bounties.
Character Infamy and Justifiable Defense
When a normal player kills a red named player (Wanted Criminal), their Infamy only increases a little. However, if players defend themselves from an attacking player, Infamy will not increase.
Infamy Scales:
Infamy ranges from 1 to 10000, character name colors change according to where the player is on the scale: Orange, Red, and Purple.
Infamy and Constables
When a player’s Infamy reaches 2000 a Bounty will be issued by the Government, and that player may be attacked by Constables (NPCs and Players) at any time.
Criminal Hunting NPCs
Patrol NPCs: The various Guards and Patrolling Disciples found in a city, town or school.
Assassin NPCs: Hidden within cities, towns, and schools these NPCs will not attack unless there is a Red Named Criminal around.
Hunter NPCs: These hidden NPCs will attack anyone whose Infamy is above 5000.
Red Name Criminal Punishment
Any Red Named player that has been killed by an NPC or other players will be put into Prison or on Death Row. Infamy between 2000-7999 will be imprisoned, +8000 will be put on Death Row.
Punishments
Prison: Located in the five major cities (Jinling, Yanjing, Suzhou, Luoyang, and Chengdu). You must stay in prison until your Infamy reaches zero.
Death Row: You will be put on Death Row in Yanjing and decapitated the next day. Once you are decapitated your Basic Attributes will be greatly affected.
Avoid Being Punished
Orange Name: You may make donations to a “Mysterious Old Man” in each city to lower your Infamy.
Red Name: You may bribe the Prison Guards to release you early.
Purple Name: Before being decapitated you may bribe the Prison Guards and hope they will find a replacement for you.
You said it previously, but I've forgotten what it was which made you walk away from this game after touting its many benefits for several years.
P2W issues or something else?
yes age of wushu was good but after sometimes, it became a huge p2w, the best skills was being sold on cash shop, the top tier was still in the game, but the random event for then was pretty hard and you need lucky, also you could use RL money to buy silver, with was the money for things in the game, you could get these by selling to other players or some others events, but, they nerfed a lot of these events because of bots, and they need to get more money
the game per see had a lot of things going like mentioned here, but after some long time things start to get his toll, and after my last guild closed, I find it was a good moment to quit too
Of the mmo's I have played, I also feel that DAoC was the best in this regard. It really had the best of all worlds. If you wanted ffa pvp, you also had that in the form of the Mordred server. PvP is inherently parasitic, and ffa pvp is simply too parasitic. I don't think its a surprise that Mordred died.
I've seen a lot of posts deriding DAoC's pve; fair enough. Personally, it was my favorite in any mmo, and perhaps that was because of its group focus and the ambience I felt the world had. BlueTurtle mentioned a east-west schism, and I think that is probably right. Maybe if you feel a personal connection to the lore, it enhances your experience.
Runner-up would be Lineage 2 maybe.
Can't wait till broadsword releases the new classic server. Just hope they listen to the old-guard, and don't implement all this modern bullcrap.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I played DAoC mainly as a PvE player and I think I participated in RvR very rarely. I didn't enjoy the PvE because it was honestly very bland and even when I enjoyed some of the myriad of classes and I made hoards of alts and tried almost every class the actual PvE never was exciting enough for me.
With the exception of that dungeon that depended on the result of the RvR for control all the PvE from what I recall was separated from the PvP. So I don't understand why DAoC is an example of combining it when in essence almost all of the game separated it. When you reached max level then you mainly did the RvR and when you were levelling you did PvE. Aside from that one dungeon where was this big mixing of the two. There were also some Bgs for lower level PvP too.
I played DAoC mainly as a PvE player and I think I participated in RvR very rarely. I didn't enjoy the PvE because it was honestly very bland and even when I enjoyed some of the myriad of classes and I made hoards of alts and tried almost every class the actual PvE never was exciting enough for me.
With the exception of that dungeon that depended on the result of the RvR for control all the PvE from what I recall was separated from the PvP. So I don't understand why DAoC is an example of combining it when in essence almost all of the game separated it. When you reached max level then you mainly did the RvR and when you were levelling you did PvE. Aside from that one dungeon where was this big mixing of the two. There were also some Bgs for lower level PvP too.
Because the game offered both PvE and PvP in a way that one didn't impede on the other, but it still had an effect.
You weren't forced to PvP, but PvP did have a small effect on PvE. An example would be the dungeon you mentioned, Darkness Falls. If PvE wasn't your thing, you could also level entirely in the battlegrounds because they were perpetual, not instanced. But you needed PvErs to supply gear that you couldn't get without doing a lot of PvE.
They were tied together while remaining completely separate. This is the only way I've seen PvP work and DAoC is the only game that seems to have gotten it right... even if by accident.
I played DAoC mainly as a PvE player and I think I participated in RvR very rarely. I didn't enjoy the PvE because it was honestly very bland and even when I enjoyed some of the myriad of classes and I made hoards of alts and tried almost every class the actual PvE never was exciting enough for me.
With the exception of that dungeon that depended on the result of the RvR for control all the PvE from what I recall was separated from the PvP. So I don't understand why DAoC is an example of combining it when in essence almost all of the game separated it. When you reached max level then you mainly did the RvR and when you were levelling you did PvE. Aside from that one dungeon where was this big mixing of the two. There were also some Bgs for lower level PvP too.
Agreed. I think people say DAoC because it is the one game that combined both that they actually liked, suited their taste and/or actually played. Nothing wrong with that either it just does not make it a fact like some think it is. I would say Wushu and PotBS or even Silkroad did it as well or better. There were actually a small handful of games that tried really hard. On that note let's be real, no game combined the two very well at all. They are two separate styles of games with completely different ways to allow for class development or skill development. One will allows negatively interfere with the other. Without question. Every single game that has tried has done that. Every one.
I understand the attraction to wanting a game for PvE and PvP, I get that, from the dawn of games, even at the RPG table playing D&D, PvP was a part of that game, players could in fact attack each other.
This was often kept in line by the whole idea that no one wanted to play with a jerk, for example in a D&D game, you start attacking other players and griefing them, they fight back, most likely kill your character, and in a D&D game, well, death was as permanent as your fellow group mates made it, so if they had to kill you, they are not going to raise you, in fact, there is a good chance they took your best gear/items, burned the body, and moved on... on top of that.. suddenly you do not get invited back to the next game, because.. well dude.. you died, Maybe next campaign.
In that spirit, early MUD/MMO's In the early AOL times, like Gemstone/DragonRealms.. it was also pretty hardcore, like, get this.
Risk of Perma-Death (You basically had to protect yourself from this by getting favors to prevent Perma-death, if you didn't have one, you had to have a cleric raise you and give up one of their favors)
Open World (With perhaps a very few safe spots, like the clerics guild inner sanctum, etc)
Free For All (Anyone could attack anyone, regardless of skill, gear, level, etc)
Full Loot (Upon departing all your gear and items fell to the ground for anyone to take), the only way to prevent this was to get raised, so all your gear stayed on your body, you still dropped the weapons in your hands.
But a lot of the griefing was controlled by the community, if you started to be a PKer, your name got around, and killing noobs and the like, since we are talking a community of around 5,000 people total, and a lot of them really didn't stand for people being jerks in their game, so they would kill you, and make sure you stayed dead.
I think that dream of player controlled communities still flashes starry eyed in some developers and players alike.
But it simply does not work the larger the community becomes.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
ArcheAge has the same type is infamy system, only AA gives them a third faction (Pirates). Age of Wushu is the typical over the top Asian style game. Animations that induce seizures and huge numbers flying all over the place. Not my thing.
I see a lot of "this game did this better" and "this game did that better". I'm sure a lot of games did a lot of things better, but none of them did a combination of everything as well as DAoC did and none of they came close to putting PvE and PvP together in the same game so well.
Of all the games mentioned, if any of them re-released with the exact same mechanics but updated graphics and engine, DAoC would be the most successful. The only thing that killed DAoC is it's dated.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
But for me, SWG, WoW, and GW2.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Lighten up. It was a joke.
Regardless, though this forum consists of so many so called PVP experts who have been playing for a couple of decades just that, most of my friends who do like PVP loved the balance between PVE and PVP in both WOW and ESO. I can't speak to the PVP in WOW because way back in 2004ish timeframe, I always avoided it, but it was fun to feel that danger in certain areas where if you enter them, you automatically got flagged for PVP. As far as ESO, I've tried it a couple of times. My former guild loved it. It's woven into the story and there are PVE things to do in that huge zone. They seem to have done the best they could consider they were being pulled in 10000 directions from everyone.
There Is Always Hope!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
P2W issues or something else?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I have to wonder what realm(s) and class(es) you played to give you such an opinion as it's so different from my experience, especially when compared to other games of the same period.
I don't think one can make a fair comparison of combat mechanics with games of a different era, GW2 vs WAR would be better choice.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
To your question of eliminating pvp, not hardly I pvp’d all day. There are plenty of other in game systems that gave reasons to kill along with broken customs. One of my favorite activities was robbing other guild supply carts.
I'll just say that PvP makes PvE more exciting.
At the end of the day, the PvP in these games is basically useless. It doesn't better your character of faction in any way. It's hollow; done just for sport and not for a purpose.
DAoC RvR had a purpose. It bettered your character and your realm, but not so much so that it created an unbalanced effect. It was also separate from the PvE world, but not in such a way that you lost immersion. You didn't cross an imaginary like and were suddenly in a PvP zone.
With the exception of that dungeon that depended on the result of the RvR for control all the PvE from what I recall was separated from the PvP. So I don't understand why DAoC is an example of combining it when in essence almost all of the game separated it. When you reached max level then you mainly did the RvR and when you were levelling you did PvE. Aside from that one dungeon where was this big mixing of the two. There were also some Bgs for lower level PvP too.
Because the game offered both PvE and PvP in a way that one didn't impede on the other, but it still had an effect.
You weren't forced to PvP, but PvP did have a small effect on PvE. An example would be the dungeon you mentioned, Darkness Falls. If PvE wasn't your thing, you could also level entirely in the battlegrounds because they were perpetual, not instanced. But you needed PvErs to supply gear that you couldn't get without doing a lot of PvE.
They were tied together while remaining completely separate. This is the only way I've seen PvP work and DAoC is the only game that seems to have gotten it right... even if by accident.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
This was often kept in line by the whole idea that no one wanted to play with a jerk, for example in a D&D game, you start attacking other players and griefing them, they fight back, most likely kill your character, and in a D&D game, well, death was as permanent as your fellow group mates made it, so if they had to kill you, they are not going to raise you, in fact, there is a good chance they took your best gear/items, burned the body, and moved on... on top of that.. suddenly you do not get invited back to the next game, because.. well dude.. you died, Maybe next campaign.
In that spirit, early MUD/MMO's In the early AOL times, like Gemstone/DragonRealms.. it was also pretty hardcore, like, get this.
- Risk of Perma-Death (You basically had to protect yourself from this by getting favors to prevent Perma-death, if you didn't have one, you had to have a cleric raise you and give up one of their favors)
- Open World (With perhaps a very few safe spots, like the clerics guild inner sanctum, etc)
- Free For All (Anyone could attack anyone, regardless of skill, gear, level, etc)
- Full Loot (Upon departing all your gear and items fell to the ground for anyone to take), the only way to prevent this was to get raised, so all your gear stayed on your body, you still dropped the weapons in your hands.
But a lot of the griefing was controlled by the community, if you started to be a PKer, your name got around, and killing noobs and the like, since we are talking a community of around 5,000 people total, and a lot of them really didn't stand for people being jerks in their game, so they would kill you, and make sure you stayed dead.I think that dream of player controlled communities still flashes starry eyed in some developers and players alike.
But it simply does not work the larger the community becomes.