Funcom's new Dune title is definitely a survival game

Kyleran

So, I think this really isn't news, but apparently some folks including the editors at MassivelyOP were holding out hope the new Dune game might be a "MMO."

So not sure why in this article they seem to believe Survival games can't be MMOs, they are not mutually exclusive design concepts.

Well, except as often is done, they are misusing the term MMO when they really mean MMORPG which once highlights the importance of the distinction between the two terms.

For anyone hoping for a new MMORPG the latest investor journal apparently mentions it could be a few years out before one even got started.

https://massivelyop.com/2020/01/27/the-survivalist-so-funcoms-dune-will-be-a-survival-game-not-an-mmo/

lahnmir

Doesn’t Funcom have the rights for multiple Dune games? I thought 3 even, of which one would be an actual MMO.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Kyleran

lahnmir said:

Doesn’t Funcom have the rights for multiple Dune games? I thought 3 even, of which one would be an actual MMO.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Yeah, but looks like if it might be quite awhile until they get to creating a "MMORPG", since they plan on building on the concepts from the current survival title perhaps one goal is to make it a MMO, with larger worlds with more players, which is really the only qualifier for the latter term.

Yes, you are trying to stand on my hill, which you know I'm willing to die for.

kitarad

I suppose the Conan Exiles game format is what they are confident will make money.

Po_gg

Yep, apparently they took it up slowly, if I may quote myself from a week ago, from the Tencent thread:

"As much as a Herbert fan I am (not as much as Tolkien ), I really don't want to see what they will do with Dune... open world survival, game as shit service... no, thanks.

Exiles was an enough insult to AoC, but Dune won't even have an MMORPG version to compare. "

It was right in the investor's report, sadly. That's how Funcom (fun)communicates lately, the death of TSW/born of SWL appeared first in a financial report as well, so you need to read those if you really want to know what they're up to.

Aeander

Gross.

kitarad

Every single company is disappointing us with their veer away from MMORPGs. Soon we will be starved for something new, well to be honest aren't we already there. Sad.

Utinni

Funcom confirmed this last year. 

"We continue the investments into our games pipeline and particularly into our internally developed games Conan Exiles, the DUNE open world survival game and the Mutant Chronicles online shooter."

Massively a bit behind the times.

achesoma

I'm out of the loop.  Had no clue a Dune game of any kind was in development.  It's an amazing setting for a MMORPG, especially a more traditional MMORPG.  If it ever happens, will most likely be watered down, "action" combat nonsense with focus on a cash shop.   That seems to be the direction of AAA MMOs these days.  If Tencent buys out Funcom, it will be hot garbage. 

lahnmir

Kyleran said:

lahnmir said:

Doesn’t Funcom have the rights for multiple Dune games? I thought 3 even, of which one would be an actual MMO.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Yeah, but looks like if it might be quite awhile until they get to creating a "MMORPG", since they plan on building on the concepts from the current survival title perhaps one goal is to make it a MMO, with larger worlds with more players, which is really the only qualifier for the latter term.

Yes, you are trying to stand on my hill, which you know I'm willing to die for.

Oi! I reckon the average survival game has just as many RPG systems in place as an MMORPG does. Growing a survival game in scale and systems would definitely make it an MMORPG, not just an MMO 

Now get off my mole hill!

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Palebane

Funcom can go to hell

Marid

Arrakis...desert planet...Dune. Survival? Easy enough I suppose. I shall ride my troglahorse deep into the Great Desert until I find a Great Worm at rest. I will approach the beast, quiet as a mouse, and pull the chunks of Spice from around its potty-hole. Treasure in hand, I shall steal myself back to my cave-lair on the Outer Rim, where I will crush those sacred nuggets into the precious dust. I will eat the Spice! I will add it to my chili...I will have it on my salads, and I will sprinkle it on my French Toast. I will drink it! I will steep it in a pot and drink deeply its bitter tea...on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays...and on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and Saturdays and Sundays, too! I shall take the juice of it and stain the letters S P I C E  G I R L into my forehead...and the stain will become a warning: This bitch is batsh!t crazy! I will set my mind in motion! I will eat it, drink it, snort it, smoke it, and rub it in my hair! I will rub it into my eyes until they turn blue...or beat-red, or whatever. I will sprinkle it on the floor and make "Spice Angels" in it! I will smear it on my naked body and dance under the moon..."My Precious"!

Yes. I will do these things...and more! I will do them until my natural bodily functions begin producing the orange spice-gas; this will drive those weird looking space-tumor guys nuts...and in their righteous frenzy they shall cry out and declare to the Universe: "She is the Queen of us!!"

In this way I shall survive...until FUNCOM nerfs the Spice Melange.

Vermillion_Raventhal

I think survival games will likely take the place of a lot of MMORPG.  You can have public servers with general rules or private ones with all types of rules.  It's less content to make and much less whiny player base.

Iselin

Utinni said:

Funcom confirmed this last year. 

"We continue the investments into our games pipeline and particularly into our internally developed games Conan Exiles, the DUNE open world survival game and the Mutant Chronicles online shooter."

Massively a bit behind the times.

Massively is just as bad as this place was (is?) trying to shoehorn everything into the MMO category by the power of wishing.

Utinni

Honestly DUNE universe makes the most sense as a survival game anyway. MMORPG would be lame as hell.

Kyleran

Utinni said:

Honestly DUNE universe makes the most sense as a survival game anyway. MMORPG would be lame as hell.

Theme park style MMORPG wouldn't work, well except for the totally awesome giant sandworm rides of course.

A game designed more like EVE could be totally awesome....

Spiider

32 people per server... probably... not an mmo... mo... multiplayer online. Thats how it should be called. Anything under 500 per server is just an MO.

Po_gg

Utinni said:

Honestly DUNE universe makes the most sense as a survival game anyway. MMORPG would be lame as hell.

I'm on the opposite opinion, and not only because I'm into the MMORPG fanclub and dislike all these newer game modes which try to water down the genre...

There were occasional threads in the past few years about IPs missing the MMORPG market yet, and/or which IPs would be good for a game, and Dune was always mentioned, for a good reason. It's a massive IP and in good hands it could be the base of a great MMORPG.

A mere survival? Not so much. Especially not in the form of a reskinned Exiles, which will be most likely the case... since the sandy environment is already there, and Funcom is lazy  

But that pops up the design question, what is the time, and what to survive? Arrakis has a couple cities (well settled, traders, nobles, not much survival options there) and the sand, where only the fremens dare to go. So, probably players are fremens.

Back to square one, an Exiles-like survival just doesn't work with fremens... nothing to gather besides spice and water, nothing to build (have to live in sietches and only go out with clear goals), nothing to craft (besides a handful of items, since you live the nomadic life) and nothing to pvp with (besides that one water stealing tribe, and occasional duels, all fremens are in a brotherhood).

So, unless they pick a time around or after the terraforming, which they won't, since all the nice sand they already have in Exiles it would be a pretty boring survival, with almost no gathering, no building, minimal crafting, and almost no combat besides the pvp. Hell, even the start would be problematic, they can't just drop out the players with the usual "go, survive", without proper equipment (and knowledge) you die within a day.

The fremen life is about survival, but mostly revolving around the water and its cycle.

Po_gg

Kyleran said:

Theme park style MMORPG wouldn't work, well except for the totally awesome giant sandworm rides of course.

A game designed more like EVE could be totally awesome....

I ain't an EVE fan, too much pvp for my taste (and the playerbase is... questionable ) but I agree, even an EVE-like setup would be better than a reskinned Exiles.

Lots of politics, arm-wrestling among the houses, conspiracies, etc. while the players belong to different houses or the Guild, or fremen or even the BG... a much better game overall. (maybe not the BG, that'd be too OP)

Scorchien

There are 7 projects at different phases being worked on .. thats all i will say

XAleX360

Scorchien said:

There are 7 projects at different phases being worked on .. thats all i will say

You some kind of Funcom insider?

Utinni

Po_gg said:

Utinni said:

Honestly DUNE universe makes the most sense as a survival game anyway. MMORPG would be lame as hell.

I'm on the opposite opinion, and not only because I'm into the MMORPG fanclub and dislike all these newer game modes which try to water down the genre...

There were occasional threads in the past few years about IPs missing the MMORPG market yet, and/or which IPs would be good for a game, and Dune was always mentioned, for a good reason. It's a massive IP and in good hands it could be the base of a great MMORPG.

A mere survival? Not so much. Especially not in the form of a reskinned Exiles, which will be most likely the case... since the sandy environment is already there, and Funcom is lazy  

But that pops up the design question, what is the time, and what to survive? Arrakis has a couple cities (well settled, traders, nobles, not much survival options there) and the sand, where only the fremens dare to go. So, probably players are fremens.

Back to square one, an Exiles-like survival just doesn't work with fremens... nothing to gather besides spice and water, nothing to build (have to live in sietches and only go out with clear goals), nothing to craft (besides a handful of items, since you live the nomadic life) and nothing to pvp with (besides that one water stealing tribe, and occasional duels, all fremens are in a brotherhood).

So, unless they pick a time around or after the terraforming, which they won't, since all the nice sand they already have in Exiles it would be a pretty boring survival, with almost no gathering, no building, minimal crafting, and almost no combat besides the pvp. Hell, even the start would be problematic, they can't just drop out the players with the usual "go, survive", without proper equipment (and knowledge) you die within a day.

The fremen life is about survival, but mostly revolving around the water and its cycle.

I get the desire to want an MMORPG one. I love MMORPGs. I love dune. I just see dune as mostly a struggle for resources and power, which is what most survival games are. I don't really see being able to make many unique classes around the dune universe. It's not great literature for that.

I don't like survival games either, but it makes the most sense.

H0urg1ass

I finally read Dune.

I'd been told for years and years that it was one of the greatest sci-fi novels ever written and so, being a sci-fi moderate fan, I attempted to dig my teeth into it.

But, much like the Fremen, I just ended up with a mouth full of sand.

Most sci-fi writers make a horrible mistake when writing sci-fi.  They focus so much on their space ships and gadgets and how this works and how that works in their world that they forget to tell a story.  So you end up with a ton of world building that you soon forget because gadgets and lore can only take you so far.

Frank Herbert doesn't make this mistake at all.  But he does make another mistake.  He doesn't describe a goddamn thing.  Ever.  Tell me what a Ornithopter looks like.  Tell me what a spice harvester looks like.  Tell me what their space ships looks like.  Tell me what anything in the entire book looks like.

That's the problem with Dune.  That's why some people call it the hardest book to translate to screen.  Because literally anyone's interpretation is "correct".  From David Lynch, to Jodorowsky to the sci-fi channel to Villeneuve.  Any of them can put anything they want on the screen and you can't go back to the source material and say "Yep, that's what he described".

So, am I looking forward to any games in this Universe?  Maybe, but not a survival game.  I've pretty much had it with endless punching trees and bashing barrels for resources to build these crazy bases, just to have the server reset every two weeks.

But then again, what resources are you going to be harvesting?  If I read the book correctly, then the planet is 90% desert with a few rocky outcroppings that don't support a ton of life.

It's not really a playable setting.  It's a dead planet in the ass end of nowhere that humanity wouldn't stop to take a shit on if there wasn't spice.

Honestly, the only two types of games I could see enjoying in this setting would be a 4x empire building game or a game that tells a relatively linear story with decision points along the way like "The Last of Us"

IsilithTehroth

Kyleran said:

So, I think this really isn't news, but apparently some folks including the editors at MassivelyOP were holding out hope the new Dune game might be a "MMO."

So not sure why in this article they seem to believe Survival games can't be MMOs, they are not mutually exclusive design concepts.

Well, except as often is done, they are misusing the term MMO when they really mean MMORPG which once highlights the importance of the distinction between the two terms.

For anyone hoping for a new MMORPG the latest investor journal apparently mentions it could be a few years out before one even got started.

https://massivelyop.com/2020/01/27/the-survivalist-so-funcoms-dune-will-be-a-survival-game-not-an-mmo/

I fully wholeheartily disagree. A survival cannot be a mmorpg. Survival is a genre by itself because it follows a loop. Mmorpgs are much more intricate taking years of mechanics and systems development. While yes mmo can have some survival aspects and survival some rpg ones they are two different genres. Atlas such survival game that claims to be a mmorpg but it never was even close. Then we have New world as well which claims to be one but it takes longer than 6 months of development.

Tiller

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I think survival games will likely take the place of a lot of MMORPG.  You can have public servers with general rules or private ones with all types of rules.  It's less content to make and much less whiny player base.

Yep, soulless and braindead games just like the generation of folks who enjoy playing them.

Kyleran

XAleX360 said:

Scorchien said:

There are 7 projects at different phases being worked on .. thats all i will say

You some kind of Funcom insider?

He owns them.