This whole thread is ridiculous and the issue isn't the staff, its the spoiled self entitled brats on this site that still act like brats 20 years later who in a narcissistic way assume and have always assumed that the masses, old and new, should follow their way of thinking of what makes a good MMO based on some nostalgic game from 20 years ago that had it's own issues, but yet they can't seem to let go of that game.
It's also ludicrous to assume that you have to be just as old with as much experience as the person whining to write an interesting article. I find many of the more recent articles on this site quite interesting. I may not agree, but I still see that there is some effort in what is being put together. Personally, I was more bothered by writers like Bill who glorified games like Wild Star and it's 'artistic' graphics ignoring most of it's short comings or embellishing the game's strengths which ultimately proved incorrect (which I stated as soon as he started writing those articles).
Regardless, the toxic vocal minority community which still lingers on this site is the problem, not the writers, it's always been this way, and I'm glad the site has attempted to evolve despite all the whiny and rude comments. People should be thanking the writers for their effort whether you agree or don't agree. I appreciate the articles and happy I have connected brain cells to absorb the information given and decide what makes sense for me. The articles are just a piece of the puzzle in researching what games I'm interested in and what games I'm not.
Agreed
The sentiment has been touched on more than once but always treated like the strictest heresy.
The games exist whether it be Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot.
They left those games even when they were in their bustling days.
Attempts to shove similar games down gamers throats failed. (Vanguard)
You have to understand though their line of thought lives in Cloud Cuckooland so what they really want will never be truly articulated.
The best I can surmise is some kind of competitive, min-max grinder, raid/group or die, with extra helpings of never ending skill trees, and arithmetic to calculate.
A game where they're at the top and everybody else is forced into their playstyle and nobody can catch up to their scale ever or else it's not "competitive".
The key is it has to be forced unto the unworthy masses and have-nots with haves in luxury.
I honestly think they'd be happier with a dressing room, chalkboard, and/or a nice spreadsheet program.
This whole thread is ridiculous and the issue isn't the staff, its the spoiled self entitled brats on this site that still act like brats 20 years later who in a narcissistic way assume and have always assumed that the masses, old and new, should follow their way of thinking of what makes a good MMO based on some nostalgic game from 20 years ago that had it's own issues, but yet they can't seem to let go of that game.
It's also ludicrous to assume that you have to be just as old with as much experience as the person whining to write an interesting article. I find many of the more recent articles on this site quite interesting. I may not agree, but I still see that there is some effort in what is being put together. Personally, I was more bothered by writers like Bill who glorified games like Wild Star and it's 'artistic' graphics ignoring most of it's short comings or embellishing the game's strengths which ultimately proved incorrect (which I stated as soon as he started writing those articles).
Regardless, the toxic vocal minority community which still lingers on this site is the problem, not the writers, it's always been this way, and I'm glad the site has attempted to evolve despite all the whiny and rude comments. People should be thanking the writers for their effort whether you agree or don't agree. I appreciate the articles and happy I have connected brain cells to absorb the information given and decide what makes sense for me. The articles are just a piece of the puzzle in researching what games I'm interested in and what games I'm not.
Agreed
The sentiment has been touched on more than once but always treated like the strictest heresy.
The games exist whether it be Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot.
They left those games even when they were in their bustling days.
Attempts to shove similar games down gamers throats failed. (Vanguard)
You have to understand though their line of thought lives in Cloud Cuckooland so what they really want will never be truly articulated.
The best I can surmise is some kind of competitive, min-max grinder, raid/group or die, with extra helpings of never ending skill trees, and arithmetic to calculate.
A game where they're at the top and everybody else is forced into their playstyle and nobody can catch up to their scale ever or else it's not "competitive".
The key is it has to be forced unto the unworthy masses and have-nots with haves in luxury.
I honestly think they'd be happier with a dressing room, chalkboard, and/or a nice spreadsheet program.
Dayum.
Nice to know that wanting something one enjoys playing, more like an old MMORPG makes us "spoiled self entitled brats."
Good thing random opinions on the internet mean nothing to me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
GameByNightHardware and Technology EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, MemberRarePosts: 811
You can't think about credentials when comes to writers because they do not write based on their true experiences on gaming over time.They write because they are often asked to write on a specific game to get PAID.
A real writer would simply write on a game because he /she enjoys writing about games.A REAL person would also write as if they were talking to a friend and not care one bit about the "professionalism CODE" to follow.Also a true person would not care one bit about "the business side" of getting paid nor often have to ask permission to post their writing on a game.The reason for the latter is because often these writers are invited by the studio to come and see the game beforehand and is under NDA. So you often get manipulated or writings that are first inspected by the developer.The BUSINESS side of things is ALWAYS going to be a deterrent when comes to good articles and reading. Point being that if you almost NEVER see the TRUE side of the writers articles then how can you judge or critique their views/opinions?The only things we could comment on is their ethics and morals of operating as a PAID writer.
Their USED to be a standard that ALL editorials and advertising follow a code of non deception.Now a days that code has been long forgotten with MOST businesses purposely trying to deceive people for profits.
Most people on this site aren't paid. We moved to a volunteer status for nearly everyone like five years ago because this industry is contracting. They make that pretty clear when they mention their day jobs in their articles.
MMORPG has always had, and will always have, a firewall between editorial and advertising. Working on the tech side like I mostly do, the minute a company wants to talk advertising or even a giveaway, I hand that off to our owner. You will find examples again and again of writers on this site criticizing the games literally being used as the background advertisement.
Back to the topic, though. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I started playing MMOs in the days of MUDs, then WoW and beyond. For me, I just wound up getting a little jaded at the idea that something was going to re-kindle those feelings I had the first time playing a graphical MMO.
Those were magical. I remember walking through Elywynn Forest in vanilla WoW (I graduated and didn't have a PC capable of most non-text games until 2004) and roleplaying as Tasslehoff Burrfoot from Dragonlance. Or, going into Orgrimmar and looking at the raiders in their sets, knowing that only 1% of players would ever see that content, and aspiring for it. I was in love with the virtual world concept. I still am. I remember guesting on podcasts years ago talking about the "slippery slope" of action combat and MTX.
These days, I just have less time to play MMOs for as long every day as I used to. In 2004, I just graduated from high school. Today, I have a full-time job, my fourth baby on the way, and a house to take care of. I pined for those first feelings for so long but now I recognize that no game will ever recreate that for me because it was part and parcel to where I was at in life, as well as my own inexperience with the larger genre.
The other thing is that, well, pre-Vanilla WoW is literally a lifetime ago for some readers of this site. I would bet any amount of money that post-Vanilla WoW players so drastically outnumber those of use who started earlier that what we would prefer aren't first, second, or even third considerations for developers compared to the majority view. It sucks, but this is a money business and the majority rules. On the plus side, niche games are becoming more and more popular which can side-step this to an extent. I'm talking big budget games.
Anyways, now I'm rambling. I guess the larger point really comes down to two things. First, the people who write for this site really do love MMORPGs but, like many MMO players, are waiting for their next big game to hook them. We're hiding out in our favorites until then and, yes, do enjoy other genres. We're gamers. Second, I like this conversation, but please don't let conspiracy theories actually gain weight in your mind. They're nonsense and if you look at the people posting those things, you'll find similar stuff comes up again and again without any proof.
I kinda don't care about the authors on this site at the moment.
I will admit that I took a break from the website in early 2018 for about a year and was shocked when I came back. Bill and Suzie had left and so the number of articles seemed to have dropped off dramatically, along with the quality of the articles. But, it was the forums that surprised me most. In the course of a year, the activity in the forums seemed to have at least halved, if not more, and its full of spam bots.
But, I'm not surprised. The MMO market is in a bad way, particularly in the west. What was the last AAA MMO release from a western dev? Wildstar? ESO? Its been 5+ years of a really shit market with hardly anything releasing at all. Is it any surprise that both the authors and community of this site got discouraged and left? If the market ever picks up again I'm sure the community and the quality of the writers here will improve again. Simply having something to be excited about is likely to pick things up around here.
This is a great point.
But I think the problem is, people look at MMO's like they look at Single Player games, and they are not the same.
When a player finds an MMO they like, they can end up playing that game for many years, even decades (As games like EQ have proved) and in some cases, that MMO, is their one and only game.
This even more so with current casuals, who are less prone to game hop or look around at the latest and greatest, due to lack of overall time to game at all and less incentive to be "first day" in the MMO world.
So it's not uncommon for a whole demographic of gamers to have their one standby MMO, where they have built a community with, that social network, where they will have people to play with, in-game friends they can call upon for help, and have that sense of progression and belonging, and I think this is something MMO developers learned over the years.
The other thing is, players are not going to get pulled away from their stand-by by these other games, no matter how shiny they may seem, and I think WoW, really taught the gaming world that lesson when everyone talked about a "WoW Killer" and none of them did squat.
That is because players first have to get fed up with their current MMO before they will look for a new one, so there is really very little need to re-brand, or pump out new MMO's every year, because the market simply does not work like that.
This is one of those things, that if you want to talk about MMO's unlike other games, talking about the new shiny, is not where the good stuff is at, that works great for MaddenNFL 20678.5, but when it comes to MMO's the news is in the expansions, the updates, the things that keep players playing, not the things that keep players moving about.
This is one of the things that I think killed games like GW2, they really had no idea that their game was going to be alive this long, I wager they were already thinking of GW3, and like GW1, expected the game to last between 3-ish years, and then pump out a new one.
But, games like EQ, they were boasting their best numbers 6 years after launch, same with WoW, they launched in 2004, but it was not till 2009, that they peaked.
But when we look at many other MMO's, have this strong launch, and then die off like a single player game, they get the box sales, and then.......... just look to make a new rendition of the game to make more on a new box sale.
And I think, after all these years, investors are realizing that is now how to make the big money, they want EQ, and WoW, where they are still churning out massive profits 4 years later, but they are not going to get that from a company that treats an MMO like it's a single player game, so they can't treat that market like it is a single player market.
So, the Decline in MMO's being put out, might be a sign that the people building MMO's today are in fact looking at long term goals, they are thinking about where they want the game to be in 5 years, or 10 years down the line, (Which of course brings us to Brad's Vision, the idea that the maker of the game, had a vision of where the game is, and will some day be from the very start, as opposed to just making and game, and then winging the rest of the development as they go along) as opposed to thinking how to get the most money the fastest and then make something new for everyone to drool over.
Just my feels on the matter.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
When a player finds an MMO they like, they can end up playing that game for many years, even decades (As games like EQ have proved) and in some cases, that MMO, is their one and only game.
This even more so with current casuals, who are less prone to game hop or look around at the latest and greatest, due to lack of overall time to game at all and less incentive to be "first day" in the MMO world.
Just my feels on the matter.
I don't think this is true at all.
I think casual players WILL game hop. They aren't in it for the long haul, they want to play here and there and will try a variety of games "just cause."
Your thinking about it as if "casuals" = old time mmorpg players who just don't have the time anymore.
And yeah, they are there. But I bet dollars to donuts that the majority of "casuals" game hop, play mmorpg's as single player games, possibly find themselves in games where they can get more for less time and just surf the variety out there.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When a player finds an MMO they like, they can end up playing that game for many years, even decades (As games like EQ have proved) and in some cases, that MMO, is their one and only game.
This even more so with current casuals, who are less prone to game hop or look around at the latest and greatest, due to lack of overall time to game at all and less incentive to be "first day" in the MMO world.
Just my feels on the matter.
I don't think this is true at all.
I think casual players WILL game hop. They aren't in it for the long haul, they want to play here and there and will try a variety of games "just cause."
Your thinking about it as if "casuals" = old time mmorpg players who just don't have the time anymore.
And yeah, they are there. But I bet dollars to donuts that the majority of "casuals" game hop, play mmorpg's as single player games, possibly find themselves in games where they can get more for less time and just surf the variety out there.
I'd gladly take you up on that bet.
As Casuals are not about Min-Maxing effort vs reward, that is purely a hardcore thing.
In fact I would bet those same dollars to doughnuts on the fact that casuals once they find a game they enjoy, will just contently meander around that game, without even looking at other games, till one of two things happen.
1) Their In-game friends talk them into trying a different game. (Which they will try and play to be with their friends)
2) The Developers do something that pisses them off. (Which get them to look at other games to play)
Otherwise, they have neither the time nor the inclination to leave a game that is providing them entertainment and social activity.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
You can't think about credentials when comes to writers because they do not write based on their true experiences on gaming over time.They write because they are often asked to write on a specific game to get PAID.
A real writer would simply write on a game because he /she enjoys writing about games.A REAL person would also write as if they were talking to a friend and not care one bit about the "professionalism CODE" to follow.Also a true person would not care one bit about "the business side" of getting paid nor often have to ask permission to post their writing on a game.The reason for the latter is because often these writers are invited by the studio to come and see the game beforehand and is under NDA. So you often get manipulated or writings that are first inspected by the developer.The BUSINESS side of things is ALWAYS going to be a deterrent when comes to good articles and reading. Point being that if you almost NEVER see the TRUE side of the writers articles then how can you judge or critique their views/opinions?The only things we could comment on is their ethics and morals of operating as a PAID writer.
Their USED to be a standard that ALL editorials and advertising follow a code of non deception.Now a days that code has been long forgotten with MOST businesses purposely trying to deceive people for profits.
Most people on this site aren't paid. We moved to a volunteer status for nearly everyone like five years ago because this industry is contracting. They make that pretty clear when they mention their day jobs in their articles.
MMORPG has always had, and will always have, a firewall between editorial and advertising. Working on the tech side like I mostly do, the minute a company wants to talk advertising or even a giveaway, I hand that off to our owner. You will find examples again and again of writers on this site criticizing the games literally being used as the background advertisement.
Back to the topic, though. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I started playing MMOs in the days of MUDs, then WoW and beyond. For me, I just wound up getting a little jaded at the idea that something was going to re-kindle those feelings I had the first time playing a graphical MMO.
Those were magical. I remember walking through Elywynn Forest in vanilla WoW (I graduated and didn't have a PC capable of most non-text games until 2004) and roleplaying as Tasslehoff Burrfoot from Dragonlance. Or, going into Orgrimmar and looking at the raiders in their sets, knowing that only 1% of players would ever see that content, and aspiring for it. I was in love with the virtual world concept. I still am. I remember guesting on podcasts years ago talking about the "slippery slope" of action combat and MTX.
These days, I just have less time to play MMOs for as long every day as I used to. In 2004, I just graduated from high school. Today, I have a full-time job, my fourth baby on the way, and a house to take care of. I pined for those first feelings for so long but now I recognize that no game will ever recreate that for me because it was part and parcel to where I was at in life, as well as my own inexperience with the larger genre.
The other thing is that, well, pre-Vanilla WoW is literally a lifetime ago for some readers of this site. I would bet any amount of money that post-Vanilla WoW players so drastically outnumber those of use who started earlier that what we would prefer aren't first, second, or even third considerations for developers compared to the majority view. It sucks, but this is a money business and the majority rules. On the plus side, niche games are becoming more and more popular which can side-step this to an extent. I'm talking big budget games.
Anyways, now I'm rambling. I guess the larger point really comes down to two things. First, the people who write for this site really do love MMORPGs but, like many MMO players, are waiting for their next big game to hook them. We're hiding out in our favorites until then and, yes, do enjoy other genres. We're gamers. Second, I like this conversation, but please don't let conspiracy theories actually gain weight in your mind. They're nonsense and if you look at the people posting those things, you'll find similar stuff comes up again and again without any proof.
Your points are well taken, but I would have to say perhaps the site's decline has more to do with a loss of focus on its namesake genre.
Let's face it, MOP appears to have done a far better job staying relevant, I believe they even have paid staff, go figure.
I know their staff plays games outside of the genre, but as part of their job, they follow, actually play, and report on many of the most popular MMORPGs.
They regularly revisit MMOs, streaming content while they play and have designated correspondents for games such as EVE, WOW and others.
Point being, despite the supposed dearth of new MMORPGs they manage to fill their site with mostly stories about MMORPGs, it's just weird I tell you.
Sure, they drift off at times, but not nearly as much as this site does.
See the thing is, if you are going to "work" for a site about MMORPGs, you are sort of obligated to actually play a few, even if you don't really want to.
As for not having the time those are personal issues so perhaps you aren't in the right profession?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Maybe this site is just following today's trends. If you go back to the original MMORPG's, like DAOC for example, the number of classes, skills, etc, is incredibly more complex than today's MMO's.
In DAOC, there are three factions, each with many different classes. And each class has multiple ways to play. Just the Cabalist on one faction has three different skill lines, and they all play differently.
Now look at today's MMORPG, like ESO. There are three factions, each with the same classes, and there are only four classes. And each build can only have a few class skills. Instead of strategic planning of what skills to use and when, we now have twitch combat with dodge-rolling and real-time blocking. Today's MMO's are much more like arcade games than MMO's were originally.
And this site seems to mirror that. I hesitate to use the phrase "dumbed down" for this site, but today's MMORPG games are certainly dumbed down compared to the past ones.
I don't think retention / game-hopping has anything to do with being hardcore or casual, but rather how well a specific game caters to that playstyle. A hardcore gamer who plays a game that is too easy will quit and game-hop, but that same hardcore might stay in the same game for years if it keeps pumping out engaging content for him/her.
I do take your point @Ungood about the stories being in covering existing games and what they're doing, covering expansions and player events and the like. That is a definite difference from the mainstream gaming media. However, as a player I've struggled to maintain interest in an MMO for such a long time so I can't really blame authors if they too lose interest. Especially given that MMOs change so much over time, I can't blame anyone if they stop enjoying a game after a big patch or expansion and thus lose interest in writing articles anymore. Especially if it is unpaid or low paid.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I don't think retention / game-hopping has anything to do with being hardcore or casual, but rather how well a specific game caters to that playstyle. A hardcore gamer who plays a game that is too easy will quit and game-hop, but that same hardcore might stay in the same game for years if it keeps pumping out engaging content for him/her.
I do take your point @Ungood about the stories being in covering existing games and what they're doing, covering expansions and player events and the like. That is a definite difference from the mainstream gaming media. However, as a player I've struggled to maintain interest in an MMO for such a long time so I can't really blame authors if they too lose interest. Especially given that MMOs change so much over time, I can't blame anyone if they stop enjoying a game after a big patch or expansion and thus lose interest in writing articles anymore. Especially if it is unpaid or low paid.
While any and every gamer will test games out, often when they are looking for a new game to play, and this can involve playing a dozen or more games in a month, just to see if they can find something they like, this is more a case of looking for a new game then just their normal way of playing.
I don't think Casuals are really game-hoppers in the sense of having several MMO's they rotate through, like a Hardcore player might have a few MMO's they cycle through just doing the hardcore raids and other kinds of "end game" content that is all too often time gated, so when things are on timer in one game they move on to the next. Seen this happen many time in raid guilds, and if one game gets stale, they just remove it from their rotation, find a new game and add that to their rotation.
So it's easy to see why a hardcore would bounce MMO's.
This is also how some players that really loved that one game, end up without their raid guild anymore and suddenly discover that raiding sucks in their game. heard that one like a broken record in GW2.. the same players that were singing the praises of Raids and how great they were, suddenly, they are saying "Aww my raid guild moved on, and I just can't raid anymore in this game" then you discover they left the game shortly thereafter.
It's so painful it's a cliche'
Casuals on the other hand, have neither the time nor the inclination to bounce between games.
Until the Developers do something stupid, and give them the inclination to look at other games to play.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Credentials for reviewers would only be useful for perspective into the reviewer's perspective; understanding what sort of MMO environment they favor and what sort of history with the genre that they're writing from. They definitely should never be used to exclude or include someone from reviewing. Reviews, fundamentally, are pure opinions and entirely subjective.
For instance, I grew up with text-based MUSH and MUDs, played EQ briefly at its launch, dabbled in the MMO genre through games like Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call and the days when subscriptions were standard. I didn't really hit my first love in MMOs until City of Heroes, and played that throughout its life until NCsoft shut it down. From there I meandered through a brief stint in WoW and then roamed the free-to-play market. These days, I mostly stick to free-to-play MMOs; RIFT when I want a little more of that old-school WoW-ish gameplay, maybe Spiral Knights when I want something cuter, used to play Warframe pretty heavily until rising required system specs forced me off it for good (at least until I can get a new PC), I intermittently play PSO2 on the Japanese servers until either Dudu or EQ schedules frustrate me off of it, and sometimes I go back to games like Closers, Dungeon Fighter Online, or SoulWorker when I want an anime action-RPG.
From that, you can probably tell I like action RPGs over old-school semi-turn-based stuff like WoW. I like my games either stylish, or bright and colorful, and I don't need gratuitous fanservice or T&A to keep me interested (though similarly, I'm not averse to it if it's there, provided it's tasteful). That said, character customization and cosmetic choice are a big part of my satisfaction. I've got a long history with the genre and watched it evolve, but I tend to roam the fringes of it, so I'm maybe not the best person to ask for mainstream household-name games like WoW. Definitely don't ask me about subscription games, as I haven't held an MMO subscription for more than a month at a time since CoH's closure.
As you can see, knowing my history with MMOs helps inform you understand how I form my opinions, and may help you decide how you should judge the validity of my opinions. That said, I don't think I should be excluded from reviewing any game I've played. It's up to those evaluating my reviews to determine whether or not they trust my opinions, based on what they know of me and their own opinions on the matter. That's the responsibility that comes with seeking out a review for guidance, after all.
TL;DR - Reviewer credentials are useful for information, not for inclusion or exclusion regarding the reviewing process.
The only credential that should ever get someone excluded from reviewing is a penchant for dishonesty and selling out. I respect the opinion of a reviewer who, when asked to review something that's crap, will openly call it crap (constructively) even if they're being paid. Anybody can blow sunshine up an anus for money, and it makes their opinion worthless. It takes a certain degree of brazenness to remain honest even when being paid, and that honesty's worth its weight in gold.
GameByNightHardware and Technology EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, MemberRarePosts: 811
You can't think about credentials when comes to writers because they do not write based on their true experiences on gaming over time.They write because they are often asked to write on a specific game to get PAID.
A real writer would simply write on a game because he /she enjoys writing about games.A REAL person would also write as if they were talking to a friend and not care one bit about the "professionalism CODE" to follow.Also a true person would not care one bit about "the business side" of getting paid nor often have to ask permission to post their writing on a game.The reason for the latter is because often these writers are invited by the studio to come and see the game beforehand and is under NDA. So you often get manipulated or writings that are first inspected by the developer.The BUSINESS side of things is ALWAYS going to be a deterrent when comes to good articles and reading. Point being that if you almost NEVER see the TRUE side of the writers articles then how can you judge or critique their views/opinions?The only things we could comment on is their ethics and morals of operating as a PAID writer.
Their USED to be a standard that ALL editorials and advertising follow a code of non deception.Now a days that code has been long forgotten with MOST businesses purposely trying to deceive people for profits.
Most people on this site aren't paid. We moved to a volunteer status for nearly everyone like five years ago because this industry is contracting. They make that pretty clear when they mention their day jobs in their articles.
MMORPG has always had, and will always have, a firewall between editorial and advertising. Working on the tech side like I mostly do, the minute a company wants to talk advertising or even a giveaway, I hand that off to our owner. You will find examples again and again of writers on this site criticizing the games literally being used as the background advertisement.
Back to the topic, though. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I started playing MMOs in the days of MUDs, then WoW and beyond. For me, I just wound up getting a little jaded at the idea that something was going to re-kindle those feelings I had the first time playing a graphical MMO.
Those were magical. I remember walking through Elywynn Forest in vanilla WoW (I graduated and didn't have a PC capable of most non-text games until 2004) and roleplaying as Tasslehoff Burrfoot from Dragonlance. Or, going into Orgrimmar and looking at the raiders in their sets, knowing that only 1% of players would ever see that content, and aspiring for it. I was in love with the virtual world concept. I still am. I remember guesting on podcasts years ago talking about the "slippery slope" of action combat and MTX.
These days, I just have less time to play MMOs for as long every day as I used to. In 2004, I just graduated from high school. Today, I have a full-time job, my fourth baby on the way, and a house to take care of. I pined for those first feelings for so long but now I recognize that no game will ever recreate that for me because it was part and parcel to where I was at in life, as well as my own inexperience with the larger genre.
The other thing is that, well, pre-Vanilla WoW is literally a lifetime ago for some readers of this site. I would bet any amount of money that post-Vanilla WoW players so drastically outnumber those of use who started earlier that what we would prefer aren't first, second, or even third considerations for developers compared to the majority view. It sucks, but this is a money business and the majority rules. On the plus side, niche games are becoming more and more popular which can side-step this to an extent. I'm talking big budget games.
Anyways, now I'm rambling. I guess the larger point really comes down to two things. First, the people who write for this site really do love MMORPGs but, like many MMO players, are waiting for their next big game to hook them. We're hiding out in our favorites until then and, yes, do enjoy other genres. We're gamers. Second, I like this conversation, but please don't let conspiracy theories actually gain weight in your mind. They're nonsense and if you look at the people posting those things, you'll find similar stuff comes up again and again without any proof.
Your points are well taken, but I would have to say perhaps the site's decline has more to do with a loss of focus on its namesake genre.
Let's face it, MOP appears to have done a far better job staying relevant, I believe they even have paid staff, go figure.
I know their staff plays games outside of the genre, but as part of their job, they follow, actually play, and report on many of the most popular MMORPGs.
They regularly revisit MMOs, streaming content while they play and have designated correspondents for games such as EVE, WOW and others.
Point being, despite the supposed dearth of new MMORPGs they manage to fill their site with mostly stories about MMORPGs, it's just weird I tell you.
Sure, they drift off at times, but not nearly as much as this site does.
See the thing is, if you are going to "work" for a site about MMORPGs, you are sort of obligated to actually play a few, even if you don't really want to.
As for not having the time those are personal issues so perhaps you aren't in the right profession?
I'm not going to comment on how MOP functions, but I've also read their site for years and have nothing but respect for the writers there. Many of us between both sites started out writing about MMOs together, reading and commenting on each other's blogs, and playing in the same guilds. Nothing but love from me.
As for your other points, ALL of us regularly play MMOs. I don't know one single person who writes for this site that doesn't have a main MMO they're playing and each of us keep up with the genre. Personally, I can't wait for Pantheon. My point regarding how my life has changed was only to say that my perspectives and expectations have changed and that I'm no longer playing three hours every single day. I'm more casual by necessity and no longer look for "the answer" in video game form, but I still love this genre and play it regularly. In fact, since getting my gaming laptop, I'm leveling a Demon Hunter in WoW again and just rolled a new character in ESO :-)
Maybe this site is just following today's trends. If you go back to the original MMORPG's, like DAOC for example, the number of classes, skills, etc, is incredibly more complex than today's MMO's.
In DAOC, there are three factions, each with many different classes. And each class has multiple ways to play. Just the Cabalist on one faction has three different skill lines, and they all play differently.
Now look at today's MMORPG, like ESO. There are three factions, each with the same classes, and there are only four classes. And each build can only have a few class skills. Instead of strategic planning of what skills to use and when, we now have twitch combat with dodge-rolling and real-time blocking. Today's MMO's are much more like arcade games than MMO's were originally.
And this site seems to mirror that. I hesitate to use the phrase "dumbed down" for this site, but today's MMORPG games are certainly dumbed down compared to the past ones.
Thank you. I've been saying this for years. MMORPGs hit a high note with games like DAoC. The worlds were rich. The classes were diverse. The communities were booming. People were invested in their class, their guilds and their realm. The VN boards would receive hundreds of posts a night talking about the action we had fighting each other, class builds and gear templates.
There's none of that now. There's no need for it nor is anyone interested in doing it because there's no passion for anything. Games are over simplified to allow the casual gamer to keep up with the power gamer and to not over complicate and confuse the half witted.
How is a writer suppose to give a colorful opinion on something so uninspired? It's like writing an article on the color grey.
And FFS... 4 kids? Dude... the world is already overpopulated.
The majority of the UO/EQ generation either grew up, committed seppuk- died a warrior's death, or OD'd. This in addition to the rise of and competition from smartphones and social media causing the whole MMORPG genre to be in serious decline. It's just the natural course of things (unfortunately).
That said, on the subject of WoW, I feel like I'm the only one in the world (of warcraft) who didn't find vanilla that great (is this the power of nostalgia?). I remember it was filled with problems such as FROST SHOCK and my arcanite reaper facerolling. That's not even a fraction of the problems back then. I personally remember the Burning Crusade expansion being a lot better of a high point for the game and in memory a lot of people felt the same way at the time although it feels as if they never existed now. It reminds me a lot of the people who hated windows vista at first praising SP1 XP not remembering XP was also terrible at first (although I really do prefer XP for other reasons). Am I the only one?
The majority of the UO/EQ generation either grew up, committed seppuk- died a warrior's death, or OD'd. This in addition to the rise of and competition from smartphones and social media causing the whole MMORPG genre to be in serious decline. It's just the natural course of things (unfortunately).
That said, on the subject of WoW, I feel like I'm the only one in the world (of warcraft) who didn't find vanilla that great (is this the power of nostalgia?). I remember it was filled with problems such as FROST SHOCK and my arcanite reaper facerolling. That's not even a fraction of the problems back then. I personally remember the Burning Crusade expansion being a lot better of a high point for the game and in memory a lot of people felt the same way at the time although it feels as if they never existed now. It reminds me a lot of the people who hated windows vista at first praising SP1 XP not remembering XP was also terrible at first (although I really do prefer XP for other reasons). Am I the only one?
No, TBC was the absolute high point for me as well. Many people cite Vanilla or WotLK as the best but I can’t agree at all.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
As for your other points, ALL of us regularly play MMOs.
Is anyone on staff currently playing a mmorpg?
Generally, the recurring columnists are consistently playing the games that they write about. For example, Robin and I write about Guild Wars 2, as we are both active in the Guild Wars 2 community. Robin also writes a World of Warcraft column. I've been playing City of Heroes: Homecoming, and recently reinstalled Elder Scrolls Online. There are also several MOG's that straddle the line that I've been playing regularly, such as The Division 2. I'm excited to hop into Phantasy Star Online 2 for the western release, and Pantheon is the upcoming MMO I'm most excited about.
Like our illustrious Hardware Editor, life changes as we get older. I get to play all of these games, but rarely to the degree I used to. Still, all of the writers are here because we have a passion for MMORPGs, they are part of us.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As for your other points, ALL of us regularly play MMOs.
Is anyone on staff currently playing a mmorpg?
Generally, the recurring columnists are consistently playing the games that they write about. For example, Robin and I write about Guild Wars 2, as we are both active in the Guild Wars 2 community. Robin also writes a World of Warcraft column. I've been playing City of Heroes: Homecoming, and recently reinstalled Elder Scrolls Online. There are also several MOG's that straddle the line that I've been playing regularly, such as The Division 2. I'm excited to hop into Phantasy Star Online 2 for the western release, and Pantheon is the upcoming MMO I'm most excited about.
Like our illustrious Hardware Editor, life changes as we get older. I get to play all of these games, but rarely to the degree I used to. Still, all of the writers are here because we have a passion for MMORPGs, they are part of us.
Fair enough, but again, you should have about 4 or 5 MMORPGs in your rotation if you are more than a casual contributor to the site because, well, it's your job, right? (Or would like it to ever be a paid one)
Imagine if I wrote for a wine testing site and I told you I regularly drink one brand of wine, along with an occasional drink which straddles the line like hard ciders.
Wouldnt make me very credible now would it? Same thing here, if you aren't cycling thru about 6 to 9 MMO type games every quarter, you're just a hobbyist, which is fine if that's the goal, but I think there's a possibility to be more.
Hmm, come to think of it, I probably write more about MMORPGs than most of the staff here... and I haven't played one in over 3 years... go figure.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The majority of the UO/EQ generation either grew up, committed seppuk- died a warrior's death, or OD'd. This in addition to the rise of and competition from smartphones and social media causing the whole MMORPG genre to be in serious decline. It's just the natural course of things (unfortunately).
That said, on the subject of WoW, I feel like I'm the only one in the world (of warcraft) who didn't find vanilla that great (is this the power of nostalgia?). I remember it was filled with problems such as FROST SHOCK and my arcanite reaper facerolling. That's not even a fraction of the problems back then. I personally remember the Burning Crusade expansion being a lot better of a high point for the game and in memory a lot of people felt the same way at the time although it feels as if they never existed now. It reminds me a lot of the people who hated windows vista at first praising SP1 XP not remembering XP was also terrible at first (although I really do prefer XP for other reasons). Am I the only one?
No, TBC was the absolute high point for me as well. Many people cite Vanilla or WotLK as the best but I can’t agree at all.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
My issue with WoW was the introduction of BG killing world PvP. Sure, world PvP. wasn't very fleshed out, but it was spontaneous and chaotic and organic. I don't really like when parts of an MMORPG feel like mini games within a game, and that's what BG was to me.
Originally posted by Scagweed22 is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
@OP ; It's called getting old. I mean it's like when people now say retro or oldschool or OG etc and then proceed to play WOW , I myself can't help but chuckle.
We are in the multi generational phase of gaming where different generations are now commenting and quite often butting heads and this is true for the writers of these articles too.
I mean no disrespect but some of us here are in the "we have more time phase as we no longer need to work and not necessarily retired" while some are just entering the "responsible adult phase were you leave childish things behind" because you have a full time job, wife and family to take care of and that means you're lucky if you get 2 hours a week of time to play video games much less the time consuming mmorpgs.
Last but truly not least, as these are who companies target really, we have the "new to it all" people who back in the day we called the wet behind the ears youngster to whom all is new and original and full of WOW factor that lots of us have left far behind.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Its all changed- But the change happened on the web as a whole and it continues to change as it becomes more like interactive television.
The computer, the web and computer games (especially CRPG's and MMORPG's) were the domain of nerds back in the day- Most of us came from a tabletop environment and were part of geek culture before it became mainstream and 'cool'.
As the masses started invading , we pretty much were forgotten and everything shifted towards the new and larger mass market that was coming into our domain and replacing us...Everything was effectively 'dumbed down' to the lowest common denominator .
[...]
The problem is that established gamers (old-timers) have little leverage. As a market segment, our potential is tapped out. Unless we suddenly dropped gaming as a hobby altogether, the industry knows that we'll be there. Heck, look at all the people frustrated with this site years after the "death" of traditional MMOs and yet we still come here. Point being, we can be ignored quite a bit and still show up.
Now consider that many of us already have plenty of games we play. Some are old, some are new, many are flawed, but we have budgeted time and money for this hobby and are not nearly as excitable as we once were. I'm not saying you can't sell us on something new, but that whatever it is has to compete with whatever other game we have. Honestly, it'll also have to compete with all the baggage we bring from past games and the unfulfilled hopes and dreams we once had for the genre.
Meanwhile, you have plenty of people everyday who are on the periphery of gaming, and who could be convinced to hop onboard the next gaming craze. An untapped or little tapped market segment that lacks our experience and all the expectations, opinions, and convictions that come with that. Is it a wonder that so many games try to cater to them instead of us?
Or, in gaming terms, the suits did some min/maxing and realized we are not BiS. The corporate guilds have moved on to the new, easier raids and currently have them on farm.
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AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Nice to know that wanting something one enjoys playing, more like an old MMORPG makes us "spoiled self entitled brats."
Good thing random opinions on the internet mean nothing to me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
MMORPG has always had, and will always have, a firewall between editorial and advertising. Working on the tech side like I mostly do, the minute a company wants to talk advertising or even a giveaway, I hand that off to our owner. You will find examples again and again of writers on this site criticizing the games literally being used as the background advertisement.
Back to the topic, though. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I started playing MMOs in the days of MUDs, then WoW and beyond. For me, I just wound up getting a little jaded at the idea that something was going to re-kindle those feelings I had the first time playing a graphical MMO.
Those were magical. I remember walking through Elywynn Forest in vanilla WoW (I graduated and didn't have a PC capable of most non-text games until 2004) and roleplaying as Tasslehoff Burrfoot from Dragonlance. Or, going into Orgrimmar and looking at the raiders in their sets, knowing that only 1% of players would ever see that content, and aspiring for it. I was in love with the virtual world concept. I still am. I remember guesting on podcasts years ago talking about the "slippery slope" of action combat and MTX.
These days, I just have less time to play MMOs for as long every day as I used to. In 2004, I just graduated from high school. Today, I have a full-time job, my fourth baby on the way, and a house to take care of. I pined for those first feelings for so long but now I recognize that no game will ever recreate that for me because it was part and parcel to where I was at in life, as well as my own inexperience with the larger genre.
The other thing is that, well, pre-Vanilla WoW is literally a lifetime ago for some readers of this site. I would bet any amount of money that post-Vanilla WoW players so drastically outnumber those of use who started earlier that what we would prefer aren't first, second, or even third considerations for developers compared to the majority view. It sucks, but this is a money business and the majority rules. On the plus side, niche games are becoming more and more popular which can side-step this to an extent. I'm talking big budget games.
Anyways, now I'm rambling. I guess the larger point really comes down to two things. First, the people who write for this site really do love MMORPGs but, like many MMO players, are waiting for their next big game to hook them. We're hiding out in our favorites until then and, yes, do enjoy other genres. We're gamers. Second, I like this conversation, but please don't let conspiracy theories actually gain weight in your mind. They're nonsense and if you look at the people posting those things, you'll find similar stuff comes up again and again without any proof.
But I think the problem is, people look at MMO's like they look at Single Player games, and they are not the same.
When a player finds an MMO they like, they can end up playing that game for many years, even decades (As games like EQ have proved) and in some cases, that MMO, is their one and only game.
This even more so with current casuals, who are less prone to game hop or look around at the latest and greatest, due to lack of overall time to game at all and less incentive to be "first day" in the MMO world.
So it's not uncommon for a whole demographic of gamers to have their one standby MMO, where they have built a community with, that social network, where they will have people to play with, in-game friends they can call upon for help, and have that sense of progression and belonging, and I think this is something MMO developers learned over the years.
The other thing is, players are not going to get pulled away from their stand-by by these other games, no matter how shiny they may seem, and I think WoW, really taught the gaming world that lesson when everyone talked about a "WoW Killer" and none of them did squat.
That is because players first have to get fed up with their current MMO before they will look for a new one, so there is really very little need to re-brand, or pump out new MMO's every year, because the market simply does not work like that.
This is one of those things, that if you want to talk about MMO's unlike other games, talking about the new shiny, is not where the good stuff is at, that works great for MaddenNFL 20678.5, but when it comes to MMO's the news is in the expansions, the updates, the things that keep players playing, not the things that keep players moving about.
This is one of the things that I think killed games like GW2, they really had no idea that their game was going to be alive this long, I wager they were already thinking of GW3, and like GW1, expected the game to last between 3-ish years, and then pump out a new one.
But, games like EQ, they were boasting their best numbers 6 years after launch, same with WoW, they launched in 2004, but it was not till 2009, that they peaked.
But when we look at many other MMO's, have this strong launch, and then die off like a single player game, they get the box sales, and then.......... just look to make a new rendition of the game to make more on a new box sale.
And I think, after all these years, investors are realizing that is now how to make the big money, they want EQ, and WoW, where they are still churning out massive profits 4 years later, but they are not going to get that from a company that treats an MMO like it's a single player game, so they can't treat that market like it is a single player market.
So, the Decline in MMO's being put out, might be a sign that the people building MMO's today are in fact looking at long term goals, they are thinking about where they want the game to be in 5 years, or 10 years down the line, (Which of course brings us to Brad's Vision, the idea that the maker of the game, had a vision of where the game is, and will some day be from the very start, as opposed to just making and game, and then winging the rest of the development as they go along) as opposed to thinking how to get the most money the fastest and then make something new for everyone to drool over.
Just my feels on the matter.
I think casual players WILL game hop. They aren't in it for the long haul, they want to play here and there and will try a variety of games "just cause."
Your thinking about it as if "casuals" = old time mmorpg players who just don't have the time anymore.
And yeah, they are there. But I bet dollars to donuts that the majority of "casuals" game hop, play mmorpg's as single player games, possibly find themselves in games where they can get more for less time and just surf the variety out there.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
As Casuals are not about Min-Maxing effort vs reward, that is purely a hardcore thing.
In fact I would bet those same dollars to doughnuts on the fact that casuals once they find a game they enjoy, will just contently meander around that game, without even looking at other games, till one of two things happen.
1) Their In-game friends talk them into trying a different game. (Which they will try and play to be with their friends)
2) The Developers do something that pisses them off. (Which get them to look at other games to play)
Otherwise, they have neither the time nor the inclination to leave a game that is providing them entertainment and social activity.
Let's face it, MOP appears to have done a far better job staying relevant, I believe they even have paid staff, go figure.
I know their staff plays games outside of the genre, but as part of their job, they follow, actually play, and report on many of the most popular MMORPGs.
They regularly revisit MMOs, streaming content while they play and have designated correspondents for games such as EVE, WOW and others.
Point being, despite the supposed dearth of new MMORPGs they manage to fill their site with mostly stories about MMORPGs, it's just weird I tell you.
Sure, they drift off at times, but not nearly as much as this site does.
See the thing is, if you are going to "work" for a site about MMORPGs, you are sort of obligated to actually play a few, even if you don't really want to.
As for not having the time those are personal issues so perhaps you aren't in the right profession?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
and I used to be that guy with picture and in depth shit
While any and every gamer will test games out, often when they are looking for a new game to play, and this can involve playing a dozen or more games in a month, just to see if they can find something they like, this is more a case of looking for a new game then just their normal way of playing.
I don't think Casuals are really game-hoppers in the sense of having several MMO's they rotate through, like a Hardcore player might have a few MMO's they cycle through just doing the hardcore raids and other kinds of "end game" content that is all too often time gated, so when things are on timer in one game they move on to the next. Seen this happen many time in raid guilds, and if one game gets stale, they just remove it from their rotation, find a new game and add that to their rotation.
So it's easy to see why a hardcore would bounce MMO's.
This is also how some players that really loved that one game, end up without their raid guild anymore and suddenly discover that raiding sucks in their game. heard that one like a broken record in GW2.. the same players that were singing the praises of Raids and how great they were, suddenly, they are saying "Aww my raid guild moved on, and I just can't raid anymore in this game" then you discover they left the game shortly thereafter.
It's so painful it's a cliche'
Casuals on the other hand, have neither the time nor the inclination to bounce between games.
Until the Developers do something stupid, and give them the inclination to look at other games to play.
For instance, I grew up with text-based MUSH and MUDs, played EQ briefly at its launch, dabbled in the MMO genre through games like Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call and the days when subscriptions were standard. I didn't really hit my first love in MMOs until City of Heroes, and played that throughout its life until NCsoft shut it down. From there I meandered through a brief stint in WoW and then roamed the free-to-play market. These days, I mostly stick to free-to-play MMOs; RIFT when I want a little more of that old-school WoW-ish gameplay, maybe Spiral Knights when I want something cuter, used to play Warframe pretty heavily until rising required system specs forced me off it for good (at least until I can get a new PC), I intermittently play PSO2 on the Japanese servers until either Dudu or EQ schedules frustrate me off of it, and sometimes I go back to games like Closers, Dungeon Fighter Online, or SoulWorker when I want an anime action-RPG.
From that, you can probably tell I like action RPGs over old-school semi-turn-based stuff like WoW. I like my games either stylish, or bright and colorful, and I don't need gratuitous fanservice or T&A to keep me interested (though similarly, I'm not averse to it if it's there, provided it's tasteful). That said, character customization and cosmetic choice are a big part of my satisfaction. I've got a long history with the genre and watched it evolve, but I tend to roam the fringes of it, so I'm maybe not the best person to ask for mainstream household-name games like WoW. Definitely don't ask me about subscription games, as I haven't held an MMO subscription for more than a month at a time since CoH's closure.
As you can see, knowing my history with MMOs helps inform you understand how I form my opinions, and may help you decide how you should judge the validity of my opinions. That said, I don't think I should be excluded from reviewing any game I've played. It's up to those evaluating my reviews to determine whether or not they trust my opinions, based on what they know of me and their own opinions on the matter. That's the responsibility that comes with seeking out a review for guidance, after all.
TL;DR - Reviewer credentials are useful for information, not for inclusion or exclusion regarding the reviewing process.
The only credential that should ever get someone excluded from reviewing is a penchant for dishonesty and selling out. I respect the opinion of a reviewer who, when asked to review something that's crap, will openly call it crap (constructively) even if they're being paid. Anybody can blow sunshine up an anus for money, and it makes their opinion worthless. It takes a certain degree of brazenness to remain honest even when being paid, and that honesty's worth its weight in gold.
As for your other points, ALL of us regularly play MMOs. I don't know one single person who writes for this site that doesn't have a main MMO they're playing and each of us keep up with the genre. Personally, I can't wait for Pantheon. My point regarding how my life has changed was only to say that my perspectives and expectations have changed and that I'm no longer playing three hours every single day. I'm more casual by necessity and no longer look for "the answer" in video game form, but I still love this genre and play it regularly. In fact, since getting my gaming laptop, I'm leveling a Demon Hunter in WoW again and just rolled a new character in ESO :-)
How is a writer suppose to give a colorful opinion on something so uninspired? It's like writing an article on the color grey.
And FFS... 4 kids? Dude... the world is already overpopulated.
That said, on the subject of WoW, I feel like I'm the only one in the world (of warcraft) who didn't find vanilla that great (is this the power of nostalgia?). I remember it was filled with problems such as FROST SHOCK and my arcanite reaper facerolling. That's not even a fraction of the problems back then. I personally remember the Burning Crusade expansion being a lot better of a high point for the game and in memory a lot of people felt the same way at the time although it feels as if they never existed now. It reminds me a lot of the people who hated windows vista at first praising SP1 XP not remembering XP was also terrible at first (although I really do prefer XP for other reasons). Am I the only one?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
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/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I'm pretty deep into Runescape right now! Just haven't committed to writing a column about it yet because I figured it would be laughed off.
Like our illustrious Hardware Editor, life changes as we get older. I get to play all of these games, but rarely to the degree I used to. Still, all of the writers are here because we have a passion for MMORPGs, they are part of us.
Go ahead and write about it, might open a few peoples eyes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Imagine if I wrote for a wine testing site and I told you I regularly drink one brand of wine, along with an occasional drink which straddles the line like hard ciders.
Wouldnt make me very credible now would it? Same thing here, if you aren't cycling thru about 6 to 9 MMO type games every quarter, you're just a hobbyist, which is fine if that's the goal, but I think there's a possibility to be more.
Hmm, come to think of it, I probably write more about MMORPGs than most of the staff here... and I haven't played one in over 3 years... go figure.
Cheers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.