I’ve raided for hundreds of hours and did so for many more after my entire guild had all the loot they could want and more dkp than they could spend on their offspecs’ offspec.
It is about seeing your entire group of guildies get together and make an effort. In these groups and settings stories are created, about ‘that one time when...’ No pre made content can replace that. And then, after countless of months you have your raid moving and acting like one organism, one entity, dancing through dungeons and encounters. And its a sight to behold, a joy to play.
If you raid for gear you are doing it wrong and if you raid with people who are doing it for the gear you are raiding with the wrong people, because it won’t last.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
This caught my attention.
"That one Time"
Yes.. but.. that "One" time among a legion of what would be surprisingly forgettable runs?
LOL, raid team moving like an organism.. what game was this you played?
But they weren´'t forgettable runs, they were time spent with my mates. And there were lots of "one" time moments, some even recurring due to certain phrases used our character traits displayed
As for the organism part, if you ask what game that happened in you don't get it. The game doesn't matter, the team does, the knowing eachother does, the push and pull, the support of that one ego, the holding back on others, the picking up the pace, the slowing down. That is what I raided for, the communicating without words, the understanding of roles, people and their character on and offscreen. It really is like learning to dance.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have clearly stated the game does not matter, what you value is the people you are with, as such the "dance" as you call it, could be found in any multiplayer game, doing any group content.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I’ve raided for hundreds of hours and did so for many more after my entire guild had all the loot they could want and more dkp than they could spend on their offspecs’ offspec.
It is about seeing your entire group of guildies get together and make an effort. In these groups and settings stories are created, about ‘that one time when...’ No pre made content can replace that. And then, after countless of months you have your raid moving and acting like one organism, one entity, dancing through dungeons and encounters. And its a sight to behold, a joy to play.
If you raid for gear you are doing it wrong and if you raid with people who are doing it for the gear you are raiding with the wrong people, because it won’t last.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
This caught my attention.
"That one Time"
Yes.. but.. that "One" time among a legion of what would be surprisingly forgettable runs?
LOL, raid team moving like an organism.. what game was this you played?
But they weren´'t forgettable runs, they were time spent with my mates. And there were lots of "one" time moments, some even recurring due to certain phrases used our character traits displayed
As for the organism part, if you ask what game that happened in you don't get it. The game doesn't matter, the team does, the knowing eachother does, the push and pull, the support of that one ego, the holding back on others, the picking up the pace, the slowing down. That is what I raided for, the communicating without words, the understanding of roles, people and their character on and offscreen. It really is like learning to dance.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have clearly stated the game does not matter, what you value is the people you are with, as such the "dance" as you call it, could be found in any multiplayer game, doing any group content.
Hmmm, group content in an MMORPG for large groups, PVE, challenging, you are right, lets not call that raids and pretend there are dozens of other activities with all these traits not remotely similar to that. Lets also not call other people, doing it for other reasons then you belief, right, lets just keep putting their words through your own filter. And voila, you are right, I am not doing it for fun and its not about raiding at all, how could I have been wrong all this time? Happy now?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
What find hilarious about this topic, is that the OP talked about Raids and Strike Missions, with the vision of pugs and random people being available to join us and enjoy the content together, where everyone could gather and have fun playing together for the love of the content itself.
And the people talking about how raids are fun, are advocating and extolling the joys being in a exclusive closed group of tight knit players, the very thing that the OP wanted to work against, to allow more open grouping.
Which says a lot of why Raids and that whole idea of that kind of content fails hard in some games.
What? I don't have a raid exclusive and closed group.
I raid on duty finder with randoms.
Oh Sure.. I'm going to believe that you run with total randoms after said:
And alliance raids are so cool. I just can't get enough. People chat a lot during them, sometimes we even create little games within the raid, like doing the fight in a certain way. My friend that is main'ing a healer have this bet with me (my main is a tank role) in which he tries to kill me. He has this pull skill so he keeps trying to drag me into the most nightmarish situation possible, like eating 8 crossed aoe's with vulnerability stacks... He tries, no success so far (kisses my gunblade).
I mean, I agree with the other dude. You have to find better people to raid because oh man your description of raiding is nightmare inducing.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have clearly stated the game does not matter, what you value is the people you are with, as such the "dance" as you call it, could be found in any multiplayer game, doing any group content.
Hmmm, group content in an MMORPG for large groups, PVE, challenging, you are right, lets not call that raids and pretend there are dozens of other activities with all these traits not remotely similar to that. Lets also not call other people, doing it for other reasons then you belief, right, lets just keep putting their words through your own filter. And voila, you are right, I am not doing it for fun and its not about raiding at all, how could I have been wrong all this time? Happy now?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have already said the game is not relevant. You have extolled on the joys of your closed exclusive group of people, and nothing more than that.
Call it what you want, but without that clique of people to run with, you would never do the content for the sake of the content.. and we both know this.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have clearly stated the game does not matter, what you value is the people you are with, as such the "dance" as you call it, could be found in any multiplayer game, doing any group content.
Hmmm, group content in an MMORPG for large groups, PVE, challenging, you are right, lets not call that raids and pretend there are dozens of other activities with all these traits not remotely similar to that. Lets also not call other people, doing it for other reasons then you belief, right, lets just keep putting their words through your own filter. And voila, you are right, I am not doing it for fun and its not about raiding at all, how could I have been wrong all this time? Happy now?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have already said the game is not relevant. You have extolled on the joys of your closed exclusive group of people, and nothing more than that.
Call it what you want, but without that clique of people to run with, you would never do the content for the sake of the content.. and we both know this.
“We” know very little. What I do know is that you keep arguing and undermining others’ their experiences and opinions. And I wonder why? Do you want to be right that badly, Do you just want to share your truths with disregard as to how others see things? Because that is totally fine, it still doesn’t make you right.
You try to reason away the fact that you simply don’t understand the experience I wrote about. That is fine too, it doesn’t make me wrong though. I like the group experience that dancing (raiding) provides, not the group experience that eating out, sport clubs, camping etc. etc. provide. Where I dance (what MMORPG I do it in) is secondary. And I do it because I like to dance, not because I want to win the competition (the loot). How difficult is this to understand?
But I think we should stop here, you clearly have no interest in others’ insights and opinions so mine are wasted on you here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Post edited by lahnmir on
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have clearly stated the game does not matter, what you value is the people you are with, as such the "dance" as you call it, could be found in any multiplayer game, doing any group content.
Hmmm, group content in an MMORPG for large groups, PVE, challenging, you are right, lets not call that raids and pretend there are dozens of other activities with all these traits not remotely similar to that. Lets also not call other people, doing it for other reasons then you belief, right, lets just keep putting their words through your own filter. And voila, you are right, I am not doing it for fun and its not about raiding at all, how could I have been wrong all this time? Happy now?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have already said the game is not relevant. You have extolled on the joys of your closed exclusive group of people, and nothing more than that.
Call it what you want, but without that clique of people to run with, you would never do the content for the sake of the content.. and we both know this.
“We” know very little. What I do know is that you keep arguing and undermining others’ their experiences and opinions. And I wonder why? Do you want to be right that badly, Do you just want to share your truths with disregard as to how others see things? Because that is totally fine, it still doesn’t make you right.
You try to reason away that fact that you simply don’t understand the experience I wrote about. That is fine too, it doesn’t make me wrong though.
But I think we should stop here, you clearly have no interest in others’ insights and opinions so mine are wasted on you here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Look.. you said what you said. That was on you, you walked in and tried this whole brow beating nonsense about how I needed to find better people to run with, how your awesome group of friends make the game fun, and now trying to say you didn't say what you said, that is you just floundering about, flopping around, and all things said and done, not a flattering look on you.
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have clearly stated the game does not matter, what you value is the people you are with, as such the "dance" as you call it, could be found in any multiplayer game, doing any group content.
Hmmm, group content in an MMORPG for large groups, PVE, challenging, you are right, lets not call that raids and pretend there are dozens of other activities with all these traits not remotely similar to that. Lets also not call other people, doing it for other reasons then you belief, right, lets just keep putting their words through your own filter. And voila, you are right, I am not doing it for fun and its not about raiding at all, how could I have been wrong all this time? Happy now?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You have already said the game is not relevant. You have extolled on the joys of your closed exclusive group of people, and nothing more than that.
Call it what you want, but without that clique of people to run with, you would never do the content for the sake of the content.. and we both know this.
“We” know very little. What I do know is that you keep arguing and undermining others’ their experiences and opinions. And I wonder why? Do you want to be right that badly, Do you just want to share your truths with disregard as to how others see things? Because that is totally fine, it still doesn’t make you right.
You try to reason away that fact that you simply don’t understand the experience I wrote about. That is fine too, it doesn’t make me wrong though.
But I think we should stop here, you clearly have no interest in others’ insights and opinions so mine are wasted on you here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Look.. you said what you said. That was on you, you walked in and tried this whole brow beating nonsense about how I needed to find better people to run with, how your awesome group of friends make the game fun, and now trying to say you didn't say what you said, that is you just floundering about, flopping around, and all things said and done, not a flattering look on you.
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
You can drop the melodramatic act. You came into the thread and started correcting people because you “knew” the real reasons why they were raiding. I came into this thread sharing my opinion and experiences. You weren’t having any of it.
Your other conclusions are faulty and misguided, perhaps fueled by frustration. It was not my intention to wind you up so lets leave it at this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
There are definitely people that raid for the difficulty. Try games other than GW2 and you might see this.
I'm certain there are players who like the challenge but I'm certain those same players would cry foul if their challenging content didn't reap corresponding rewards or worse, if others could claim the same rewards for less effort.
To me, when people say they like challenge, what they really mean is achievement. And to me, achievement means rewarding better loot. Is there any raiding environment that doesn't offer progressively better loot for harder content? I can't think of any.
Well if you're just going to state your own assumptions as fact then there's no argument to be had! You are "certain" and let that be known!
Look.. you said what you said. That was on you, you walked in and tried this whole brow beating nonsense about how I needed to find better people to run with, how your awesome group of friends make the game fun, and now trying to say you didn't say what you said, that is you just floundering about, flopping around, and all things said and done, not a flattering look on you.
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
You can drop the melodramatic act. You came into the thread and started correcting people because you “knew” the real reasons why they were raiding. I came into this thread sharing my opinion and experiences. You weren’t having any of it.
Your other conclusions are faulty and misguided, perhaps fueled by frustration. It was not my intention to wind you up so lets leave it at this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Oh spare me.
You said nothing to counter any of my claims, all you have done is extolled the virtues and how awesome your idillacy utopian exclusive group that moves like a single organism is, and told me I needed to find better people.
That does not address the content.. FYI.
Everyone with any common sense knows, when it comes to being in a group of people you enjoy being with, you could be playing poker in the backyard, and still have an awesome time, so you have done nothing, nothing at all to address the content itself, and even said clearly, the game does not matter.. and on that, you are 100% correct. The game does not matter, and neither does the content. Playing football, poker, or a thrilling game of Candyland, it would make no difference to the fun factor.
Here is the deal.
Without their Loot, raids would be dead.. everyone knows this.
Outside your utopian network, pugging raids is a hot mess of ugly.. and again.. everyone knows this.
Yah..let's leave it at that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Look.. you said what you said. That was on you, you walked in and tried this whole brow beating nonsense about how I needed to find better people to run with, how your awesome group of friends make the game fun, and now trying to say you didn't say what you said, that is you just floundering about, flopping around, and all things said and done, not a flattering look on you.
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
You can drop the melodramatic act. You came into the thread and started correcting people because you “knew” the real reasons why they were raiding. I came into this thread sharing my opinion and experiences. You weren’t having any of it.
Your other conclusions are faulty and misguided, perhaps fueled by frustration. It was not my intention to wind you up so lets leave it at this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Oh spare me.
You said nothing to counter any of my claims, all you have done is extolled the virtues and how awesome your idillacy utopian exclusive group that moves like a single organism is, and told me I needed to find better people.
That does not address the content.. FYI.
Everyone with any common sense knows, when it comes to being in a group of people you enjoy being with, you could be playing poker in the backyard, and still have an awesome time, so you have done nothing, nothing at all to address the content itself, and even said clearly, the game does not matter.. and on that, you are 100% correct. The game does not matter, and neither does the content. Playing football, poker, or a thrilling game of Candyland, it would make no difference to the fun factor.
Here is the deal.
Without their Loot, raids would be dead.. everyone knows this.
Outside your utopian network, pugging raids is a hot mess of ugly.. and again.. everyone knows this.
Yah..let's leave it at that.
You are not everyone, your opinion is not everyone and what you “know” isn’t everyone.
You don’t want to learn, you don’t want input, you want to be right. So, congratulations, you are right. /end
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Look.. you said what you said. That was on you, you walked in and tried this whole brow beating nonsense about how I needed to find better people to run with, how your awesome group of friends make the game fun, and now trying to say you didn't say what you said, that is you just floundering about, flopping around, and all things said and done, not a flattering look on you.
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
You can drop the melodramatic act. You came into the thread and started correcting people because you “knew” the real reasons why they were raiding. I came into this thread sharing my opinion and experiences. You weren’t having any of it.
Your other conclusions are faulty and misguided, perhaps fueled by frustration. It was not my intention to wind you up so lets leave it at this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Oh spare me.
You said nothing to counter any of my claims, all you have done is extolled the virtues and how awesome your idillacy utopian exclusive group that moves like a single organism is, and told me I needed to find better people.
That does not address the content.. FYI.
Everyone with any common sense knows, when it comes to being in a group of people you enjoy being with, you could be playing poker in the backyard, and still have an awesome time, so you have done nothing, nothing at all to address the content itself, and even said clearly, the game does not matter.. and on that, you are 100% correct. The game does not matter, and neither does the content. Playing football, poker, or a thrilling game of Candyland, it would make no difference to the fun factor.
Here is the deal.
Without their Loot, raids would be dead.. everyone knows this.
Outside your utopian network, pugging raids is a hot mess of ugly.. and again.. everyone knows this.
Yah..let's leave it at that.
You are not everyone, your opinion is not everyone and what you “know” isn’t everyone.
You don’t want to learn, you don’t want input, you want to be right. So, congratulations, you are right. /end
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Go read the other posts.. you know.. the ones that are not mine.. You will see I am very much NOT alone.
But obviously according to you, all those other people are wrong too.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Look.. you said what you said. That was on you, you walked in and tried this whole brow beating nonsense about how I needed to find better people to run with, how your awesome group of friends make the game fun, and now trying to say you didn't say what you said, that is you just floundering about, flopping around, and all things said and done, not a flattering look on you.
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
You can drop the melodramatic act. You came into the thread and started correcting people because you “knew” the real reasons why they were raiding. I came into this thread sharing my opinion and experiences. You weren’t having any of it.
Your other conclusions are faulty and misguided, perhaps fueled by frustration. It was not my intention to wind you up so lets leave it at this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Oh spare me.
You said nothing to counter any of my claims, all you have done is extolled the virtues and how awesome your idillacy utopian exclusive group that moves like a single organism is, and told me I needed to find better people.
That does not address the content.. FYI.
Everyone with any common sense knows, when it comes to being in a group of people you enjoy being with, you could be playing poker in the backyard, and still have an awesome time, so you have done nothing, nothing at all to address the content itself, and even said clearly, the game does not matter.. and on that, you are 100% correct. The game does not matter, and neither does the content. Playing football, poker, or a thrilling game of Candyland, it would make no difference to the fun factor.
Here is the deal.
Without their Loot, raids would be dead.. everyone knows this.
Outside your utopian network, pugging raids is a hot mess of ugly.. and again.. everyone knows this.
Yah..let's leave it at that.
You are not everyone, your opinion is not everyone and what you “know” isn’t everyone.
You don’t want to learn, you don’t want input, you want to be right. So, congratulations, you are right. /end
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Go read the other posts.. you know.. the ones that are not mine.. You will see I am very much NOT alone.
But obviously according to you, all those other people are wrong too.
Why do you deal in these absolutes? I never said you were alone, but you are also, quite obviously, not everyone. No one is wrong here, but you can not simply tell others why they do what they do and why they like what they like. You have no say in that, none. Yet you take my (and others) their experiences and opinions and tell us how we really feel and what motivates us instead of simply taking it for what it is, OURS, not yours.
The irony in your last part is that you are actually telling other people they are wrong, not me. I am simply saying I don’t agree with your blanket statement and explained why. You don’t have to like, agree with or understand that explanation either, that has no effect on it whatsoever.
I might disagree wholeheartedly with some of what posters write here, but I will always, always respect their experiences and motivations. Yes, yours too.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
When I was younger, I used to Box, as in the sport of Boxing or puligest as the case may be, not to be confused to putting gifts into a box called Boxing.
I was part of a Sportsman's Club, it was a group for young men like myself that wanted to learn how to Box, we would train every day. Often we would run miles in the morning, then of course go to class as most of us where still in Highschool, myself included. After school was done, we would gather at the gym, jump rope, do other exercises like pushups, situps, hit the bag, etc, etc, the normal routine that went into physical conditioning.
later in the afternoon some of us would get in the ring and spar, after all, this was the gym, not the competitive sport arena.
Now, I had my little clique in that group, great bunch of peeps all things said and done, and we would spar like we were heavyweight champions, pushing each other, and walking out of that ring with bloody noses, bruised bodies, just wracked with pain some days, and the next day, we would go at it again, because we enjoyed the fights, the work outs, and more importantly, enjoyed each other lifting each other up, and pushing each other to be better, one punch in the face at a time.
So what was my point to this.. well.. I think most people would agree that getting punched in the face was not fun.. in fact, I am sure most people agree that getting beating about the body for 2 minutes straight to be a very uncomfortable, perhaps even agonizing experience.. much less for 2 min intervals 5 times in a row, daily.
Yet with the right group of people, I found it not only fun, but also looked forward to doing it.. every.. single.. day.
I believe most people view raids the same way.
Post edited by Ungood on
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I also only raid just for the fun of it. Im also raid leading since 3 years now, pugs only. I prefere ppl who haven't ritualized all the mechanics of the boss and prefere to progress with the new pug for the evening. Im never toxic to them. (I raidlead in the top 1-5% of wow population. Don't fixate on the numbers, let's say I'm pretty successful with pugs)
I have found many ppl during this journey, but I'm still open to new players. So half of my grp are usually friends from this journey and the other half where found with the dungeon tool for the evening. And together we gonna have somes dances for the night .
I also join other grps and they are usually toxic, which results in unfun experience. Therefore the conception on grps may differ.
But imho, if u dislike pugs mentally, just open your own grp and see how you tackle the problem of having X ppl trying to defeat a boss.
I don't care about the loot, it's to generic for me and it won't help me to raidlead a grp. But I also think many ppl who raid with me are just there for the loot. I don't share their vision, but as long as they wont flame my other mates, I'm fine with it.
When I was younger, I used to Box, as in the sport of Boxing or puligest as the case may be, not to be confused to putting gifts into a box called Boxing.
I was part of a Sportsman's Club, it was a group for young men like myself that wanted to learn how to Box, we would train every day. Often we would run miles in the morning, then of course go to class as most of us where still in Highschool, myself included. After school was done, we would gather at the gym, jump rope, do other exercises like pushups, situps, hit the bag, etc, etc, the normal routine that went into physical conditioning.
later in the afternoon some of us would get in the ring and spar, after all, this was the gym, not the competitive sport arena.
Now, I had my little clique in that group, great bunch of peeps all things said and done, and we would spar like we were heavyweight champions, pushing each other, and walking out of that ring with bloody noses, bruised bodies, just wracked with pain some days, and the next day, we would go at it again, because we enjoyed the fights, the work outs, and more importantly, enjoyed each other lifting each other up, and pushing each other to be better, one punch in the face at a time.
So what was my point to this.. well.. I think most people would agree that getting punched in the face was not fun.. in fact, I am sure most people agree that getting beating about the body for 2 minutes straight to be a very uncomfortable, perhaps even agonizing experience.. much less for 2 min intervals 5 times in a row, daily.
Yet with the right group of people, I found it not only fun, but also looked forward to doing it.. every.. single.. day.
I believe most people view raids the same way.
WTF
WTF
WTF
Raiding is worse than repeatedly getting in punched in the face. Way worse. Like by an exponentially greater degree of magnitude.
(...to be continued due to unforeseen technical issues...)
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I also only raid just for the fun of it. Im also raid leading since 3 years now, pugs only. I prefere ppl who haven't ritualized all the mechanics of the boss and prefere to progress with the new pug for the evening. Im never toxic to them. (I raidlead in the top 1-5% of wow population. Don't fixate on the numbers, let's say I'm pretty successful with pugs)
I have found many ppl during this journey, but I'm still open to new players. So half of my grp are usually friends from this journey and the other half where found with the dungeon tool for the evening. And together we gonna have somes dances for the night .
I also join other grps and they are usually toxic, which results in unfun experience. Therefore the conception on grps may differ.
But imho, if u dislike pugs mentally, just open your own grp and see how you tackle the problem of having X ppl trying to defeat a boss.
I don't care about the loot, it's to generic for me and it won't help me to raidlead a grp. But I also think many ppl who raid with me are just there for the loot. I don't share their vision, but as long as they wont flame my other mates, I'm fine with it.
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I’ve raided for hundreds of hours and did so for many more after my entire guild had all the loot they could want and more dkp than they could spend on their offspecs’ offspec.
It is about seeing your entire group of guildies get together and make an effort. In these groups and settings stories are created, about ‘that one time when...’ No pre made content can replace that. And then, after countless of months you have your raid moving and acting like one organism, one entity, dancing through dungeons and encounters. And its a sight to behold, a joy to play.
If you raid for gear you are doing it wrong and if you raid with people who are doing it for the gear you are raiding with the wrong people, because it won’t last.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
This caught my attention.
"That one Time"
Yes.. but.. that "One" time among a legion of what would be surprisingly forgettable runs?
LOL, raid team moving like an organism.. what game was this you played?
But they weren´'t forgettable runs, they were time spent with my mates. And there were lots of "one" time moments, some even recurring due to certain phrases used our character traits displayed
As for the organism part, if you ask what game that happened in you don't get it. The game doesn't matter, the team does, the knowing eachother does, the push and pull, the support of that one ego, the holding back on others, the picking up the pace, the slowing down. That is what I raided for, the communicating without words, the understanding of roles, people and their character on and offscreen. It really is like learning to dance.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You people actually call your "close knit group of friends" "statics"? And others "randoms"?
I’ve raided for hundreds of hours and did so for many more after my entire guild had all the loot they could want and more dkp than they could spend on their offspecs’ offspec.
It is about seeing your entire group of guildies get together and make an effort. In these groups and settings stories are created, about ‘that one time when...’ No pre made content can replace that. And then, after countless of months you have your raid moving and acting like one organism, one entity, dancing through dungeons and encounters. And its a sight to behold, a joy to play.
If you raid for gear you are doing it wrong and if you raid with people who are doing it for the gear you are raiding with the wrong people, because it won’t last.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
This caught my attention.
"That one Time"
Yes.. but.. that "One" time among a legion of what would be surprisingly forgettable runs?
LOL, raid team moving like an organism.. what game was this you played?
But they weren´'t forgettable runs, they were time spent with my mates. And there were lots of "one" time moments, some even recurring due to certain phrases used our character traits displayed
As for the organism part, if you ask what game that happened in you don't get it. The game doesn't matter, the team does, the knowing eachother does, the push and pull, the support of that one ego, the holding back on others, the picking up the pace, the slowing down. That is what I raided for, the communicating without words, the understanding of roles, people and their character on and offscreen. It really is like learning to dance.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
See.. all you have described is the joy of playing with tight knit group of friends.
Here is the reality, If the game does not matter then the raid does not matter, ergo, you were not raiding for the Fun of doing that raid. You had a tight static that you stayed with over several games through several years that you enjoyed playing with, they would have made any game mode fun, You could have been playing an arena game like dead by daylight, or an MOBA like LOL, or BR like Fortnight, and the end result would be the same for you, you would have enjoyed playing with your tight knit teamwork of players made any game or game mode fun.
I stand by what I said. No one Raids for the Fun of it, you do raids for the loot.
You just had a nice static to run with, Congrats. I am happy for you, but that says nothing about the raids themselves.
No, the raid is the actual dance, the static/group/guild is the one performing it. And whatever game it is is the type of dance being performed. You can not have one without the other. Don’t turn what I write into something else so your view still applies, I simply don’t agree with your assessment and my previous post/posts is the reason why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You people actually call your "close knit group of friends" "statics"? And others "randoms"?
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
When I was younger, I used to Box, as in the sport of Boxing or puligest as the case may be, not to be confused to putting gifts into a box called Boxing.
I was part of a Sportsman's Club, it was a group for young men like myself that wanted to learn how to Box, we would train every day. Often we would run miles in the morning, then of course go to class as most of us where still in Highschool, myself included. After school was done, we would gather at the gym, jump rope, do other exercises like pushups, situps, hit the bag, etc, etc, the normal routine that went into physical conditioning.
later in the afternoon some of us would get in the ring and spar, after all, this was the gym, not the competitive sport arena.
Now, I had my little clique in that group, great bunch of peeps all things said and done, and we would spar like we were heavyweight champions, pushing each other, and walking out of that ring with bloody noses, bruised bodies, just wracked with pain some days, and the next day, we would go at it again, because we enjoyed the fights, the work outs, and more importantly, enjoyed each other lifting each other up, and pushing each other to be better, one punch in the face at a time.
So what was my point to this.. well.. I think most people would agree that getting punched in the face was not fun.. in fact, I am sure most people agree that getting beating about the body for 2 minutes straight to be a very uncomfortable, perhaps even agonizing experience.. much less for 2 min intervals 5 times in a row, daily.
Yet with the right group of people, I found it not only fun, but also looked forward to doing it.. every.. single.. day.
I believe most people view raids the same way.
That's great and all. But, you know, if you can talk about it then you aren't in the right club.
When I was younger, I used to Box, as in the sport of Boxing or puligest as the case may be, not to be confused to putting gifts into a box called Boxing.
I was part of a Sportsman's Club, it was a group for young men like myself that wanted to learn how to Box, we would train every day. Often we would run miles in the morning, then of course go to class as most of us where still in Highschool, myself included. After school was done, we would gather at the gym, jump rope, do other exercises like pushups, situps, hit the bag, etc, etc, the normal routine that went into physical conditioning.
later in the afternoon some of us would get in the ring and spar, after all, this was the gym, not the competitive sport arena.
Now, I had my little clique in that group, great bunch of peeps all things said and done, and we would spar like we were heavyweight champions, pushing each other, and walking out of that ring with bloody noses, bruised bodies, just wracked with pain some days, and the next day, we would go at it again, because we enjoyed the fights, the work outs, and more importantly, enjoyed each other lifting each other up, and pushing each other to be better, one punch in the face at a time.
So what was my point to this.. well.. I think most people would agree that getting punched in the face was not fun.. in fact, I am sure most people agree that getting beating about the body for 2 minutes straight to be a very uncomfortable, perhaps even agonizing experience.. much less for 2 min intervals 5 times in a row, daily.
Yet with the right group of people, I found it not only fun, but also looked forward to doing it.. every.. single.. day.
I believe most people view raids the same way.
That's great and all. But, you know, if you can talk about it then you aren't in the right club.
Seriously though, Ungood, I admire boxing. I had a HS teacher who was fleet champion during WW2. He also lost a lung in that war. But if there was one word that described him best, it was "impeccable." Everything about that man was "impeccable." Every word he said. Every action he did. His hair, combed with diligence. His shoes shined to perfection. His tall straight walk. His demeanor. His patience. His knowledge. Suits were made for him, seemingly even inspired by him.
No one ever, ever, said his name without "Mr." on the front end.
I think many people raid for the sense of accomplishment. The greater the difficulty the greater the sense of accomplishment which makes it more fun. Some mmo's give loot, others exclusive skills/abilities, others levels/xp, other get skins/special decorate items for completing difficult tasks. All these allow people to distinguish themselves. The easier it is to get an item, the less rewarding it feels, which makes the game boring. There can be a profound sense of pride accomplishing something very few can.
Someone mentioned competitive sports. In a sense I think its similar to the Olympics. Sure you can say people are competing for medals "loot". But what do those medals represent. Status, fame, pride, sense of accomplishment and some cases later rewards. However if they dumb the sport down and everyone gets a gold medal that participates. Then soon it wouldn't provide any of those things. Sure at first the gold medals would still have status, but it wouldn't take long until people realize it doesn't mean anything and would lose its status, fame, pride, accomplishment...
Yes sure you are going to find some people who want to short cut the system to get instant status, without doing the work. But if the item has no status then its not worth doing at all. So that is the conundrum giving easy loot represents. The easier it is to accomplish, the less status it has.
This is why difficulty is a key component. Loot is just a means to give a sense of status for a given difficulty.
I think many people raid for the sense of accomplishment. The greater the difficulty the greater the sense of accomplishment which makes it more fun. Some mmo's give loot, others exclusive skills/abilities, others levels/xp, other get skins/special decorate items for completing difficult tasks. All these allow people to distinguish themselves. The easier it is to get an item, the less rewarding it feels, which makes the game boring. There can be a profound sense of pride accomplishing something very few can.
Someone mentioned competitive sports. In a sense I think its similar to the Olympics. Sure you can say people are competing for medals "loot". But what do those medals represent. Status, fame, pride, sense of accomplishment and some cases later rewards. However if they dumb the sport down and everyone gets a gold medal that participates. Then soon it wouldn't provide any of those things. Sure at first the gold medals would still have status, but it wouldn't take long until people realize it doesn't mean anything and would lose its status, fame, pride, accomplishment...
Yes sure you are going to find some people who want to short cut the system to get instant status, without doing the work. But if the item has no status then its not worth doing at all. So that is the conundrum giving easy loot represents. The easier it is to accomplish, the less status it has.
This is why difficulty is a key component. Loot is just a means to give a sense of status for a given difficulty.
Another problem with it is that most games have a set pattern for each Raid. Once you know it, and everyone does the right thing at the right time, it's guaranteed. That makes it feel like "paint by numbers" game play, and that's much less rewarding. Someone in this thread pointed out this issue of lack of randomness. So I guess I'm repeating that. But it is a big flaw. Same as most MOB content.
Comments
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Call it what you want, but without that clique of people to run with, you would never do the content for the sake of the content.. and we both know this.
You try to reason away the fact that you simply don’t understand the experience I wrote about. That is fine too, it doesn’t make me wrong though. I like the group experience that dancing (raiding) provides, not the group experience that eating out, sport clubs, camping etc. etc. provide. Where I dance (what MMORPG I do it in) is secondary. And I do it because I like to dance, not because I want to win the competition (the loot). How difficult is this to understand?
But I think we should stop here, you clearly have no interest in others’ insights and opinions so mine are wasted on you here.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Typically I thought you of all the people on this forum, would be better than that, and own up to what you said.
YOU.. Not me.. not anyone else.. YOU extolled the vales of your awesome group of tight knit friends that are just great to play with across any game, so much so that the game itself is irrelevant.
Now, in case you missed this, would you like to know what tells me and anyone else about Raid content directly.
I'll clue you in.. it tells me.. and everyone else, that Raids suck big fat balls if I don't have that perfect fit team of people that are a joy to play with.
if you can't grasp that.. the problem is clearly on your end.
But you said what you said.. and THAT is what you said.
Your other conclusions are faulty and misguided, perhaps fueled by frustration. It was not my intention to wind you up so lets leave it at this.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Well if you're just going to state your own assumptions as fact then there's no argument to be had! You are "certain" and let that be known!
You said nothing to counter any of my claims, all you have done is extolled the virtues and how awesome your idillacy utopian exclusive group that moves like a single organism is, and told me I needed to find better people.
That does not address the content.. FYI.
Everyone with any common sense knows, when it comes to being in a group of people you enjoy being with, you could be playing poker in the backyard, and still have an awesome time, so you have done nothing, nothing at all to address the content itself, and even said clearly, the game does not matter.. and on that, you are 100% correct. The game does not matter, and neither does the content. Playing football, poker, or a thrilling game of Candyland, it would make no difference to the fun factor.
Here is the deal.
Without their Loot, raids would be dead.. everyone knows this.
Outside your utopian network, pugging raids is a hot mess of ugly.. and again.. everyone knows this.
Yah..let's leave it at that.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
But obviously according to you, all those other people are wrong too.
The irony in your last part is that you are actually telling other people they are wrong, not me. I am simply saying I don’t agree with your blanket statement and explained why. You don’t have to like, agree with or understand that explanation either, that has no effect on it whatsoever.
I might disagree wholeheartedly with some of what posters write here, but I will always, always respect their experiences and motivations. Yes, yours too.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I was part of a Sportsman's Club, it was a group for young men like myself that wanted to learn how to Box, we would train every day. Often we would run miles in the morning, then of course go to class as most of us where still in Highschool, myself included. After school was done, we would gather at the gym, jump rope, do other exercises like pushups, situps, hit the bag, etc, etc, the normal routine that went into physical conditioning.
later in the afternoon some of us would get in the ring and spar, after all, this was the gym, not the competitive sport arena.
Now, I had my little clique in that group, great bunch of peeps all things said and done, and we would spar like we were heavyweight champions, pushing each other, and walking out of that ring with bloody noses, bruised bodies, just wracked with pain some days, and the next day, we would go at it again, because we enjoyed the fights, the work outs, and more importantly, enjoyed each other lifting each other up, and pushing each other to be better, one punch in the face at a time.
So what was my point to this.. well.. I think most people would agree that getting punched in the face was not fun.. in fact, I am sure most people agree that getting beating about the body for 2 minutes straight to be a very uncomfortable, perhaps even agonizing experience.. much less for 2 min intervals 5 times in a row, daily.
Yet with the right group of people, I found it not only fun, but also looked forward to doing it.. every.. single.. day.
I believe most people view raids the same way.
It's not THAT hard to just speak for yourself, really. I'm referring to the post title, btw.
I also only raid just for the fun of it. Im also raid leading since 3 years now, pugs only. I prefere ppl who haven't ritualized all the mechanics of the boss and prefere to progress with the new pug for the evening. Im never toxic to them. (I raidlead in the top 1-5% of wow population. Don't fixate on the numbers, let's say I'm pretty successful with pugs)
I have found many ppl during this journey, but I'm still open to new players. So half of my grp are usually friends from this journey and the other half where found with the dungeon tool for the evening. And together we gonna have somes dances for the night
I also join other grps and they are usually toxic, which results in unfun experience. Therefore the conception on grps may differ.
But imho, if u dislike pugs mentally, just open your own grp and see how you tackle the problem of having X ppl trying to defeat a boss.
I don't care about the loot, it's to generic for me and it won't help me to raidlead a grp. But I also think many ppl who raid with me are just there for the loot. I don't share their vision, but as long as they wont flame my other mates, I'm fine with it.
Perhaps he simply wants to play a game rather than work one.
And others "randoms"?
OMG, it's 6565.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQfxi8V5FA
Once upon a time....
Stop trying to get me banned.
That's great and all.
But, you know, if you can talk about it then you aren't in the right club.
Once upon a time....
I had a HS teacher who was fleet champion during WW2. He also lost a lung in that war.
But if there was one word that described him best, it was "impeccable."
Everything about that man was "impeccable."
Every word he said.
Every action he did.
His hair, combed with diligence.
His shoes shined to perfection.
His tall straight walk.
His demeanor.
His patience.
His knowledge.
Suits were made for him, seemingly even inspired by him.
No one ever, ever, said his name without "Mr." on the front end.
That's what boxing can do for a man, Mr. Ungood.
Once upon a time....
This is why difficulty is a key component. Loot is just a means to give a sense of status for a given difficulty.
That makes it feel like "paint by numbers" game play, and that's much less rewarding.
Someone in this thread pointed out this issue of lack of randomness. So I guess I'm repeating that. But it is a big flaw. Same as most MOB content.
Once upon a time....