Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
Some people like seeing other players running about and talking to them in chat and also feel the world is occupied but they don't want the hassle of grouping with people and having to deal with them I guess. You cannot chat with people in a single player game. There is no one to talk to or share the game space with. Grouping isn't the only way to share a game.
It can be very taxing and stressful to deal with people who are not interested in the group but just merely run ahead pulling stuff and doing their own thing with nary a word in between. It can be very horrid actually.
Games are designed in ways where such individuals will often be in your group. It is hard to be able to find people to group with that share your concept of grouping and it is becoming more apparent that people don't want to interact much. Chatting is fine but grouping becomes a chore.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
I think his answer might align with mine. The idea that the world is alive with people as opposed to npc's and that one's character can keep having adventures, keep "doing stuff" keep progressing.
Some games are more fun to solo than others. I found Vanguard a huge ton of fun to solo.
But the exploration was there.
It's true, the single player games offer better experiences but they end after "so many hours."
At least that's my guess for his statement. For me I actually enjoy grouping but have no tolerance for assholes so I seldom group unless I know the people involved or someone asks me to help.
and then I enjoy myself.
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The more I see of new games, the more I think that games are being deliberately misrepresented to the public as "massively multiplayer". It looks more like a developer is trying to apply a label to a product in order to drive sales. Players may think that massively multiplayer somehow involves grouping and/or cooperative game play, where it appears that developers are trying to associate the MMO term with "many players existing concurrently".
The MMO moniker is no more a representation of how the game operates than the RPG part. It has become a near-meaningless marketing term.
I’ve said it for years now... MMO=/=MMORPG. Mmorpg’s derived from pen and paper games. The RPG is what signifies what type of game it is. An MMO could be anything.
The MMO moniker is no more a representation of how the game operates than the RPG part. It has become a near-meaningless marketing term.
I've been saying this for years. "MMO" does not mean what older people think it means anymore. Most people can't get past the semantics though so 100-page threads ensue.
Personally, Id like a good mix of group and solo content in any MMO. Sometimes I want to play in that world but just alone, other times I want to group up. It depends on the day and isn't that complicated. People like to make all this MMO stuff complicated but it's really not.
Group content or not, who cares have fun doing it or do something else?
It does mean the same thing that it always meant. It's just harder to find the times when they act and feel and we play up to their massively multiplayer potential.
I haven't played ESO for a year but the last time I was in Cyrodiil on a weekend and one of the three sides was trying to control all the inner keeps to crown someone emperor or making a concerted effort to open the gates to the Elder Scrolls temples to swipe another side's scrolls and 300 players in the one seamless Cyrodiil zone were focused on accomplishing that or stopping the other side from doing it, that was some real MMO game play happening there.
Those kinds of things happen mostly in the RvR games these days but it wasn't always that way. That used to happen in PvE game play as well and was pretty common in the early MMOs like AC, UO and EQ. It still happens occasionally in games like GW2 and it certainly used to happen in Rift when there were zone invasions - probably still does for anyone still playing - but it's rare these days.
Soloing, duoing or small 4-6 man group game play was something we did to level grind and pass the time until the next large scale massively multiplayer thing but they weren't the only thing as is the case nowadays in the vast majority of MMOs
That small scale stuff has become so institutionalized that there's a whole generation of new MMO players who think that's what MMOs were always all about. They weren't and they still don't have to be all about that,
Most people in this thread are basically comparing solo vs. a party of 4-6 as if those were the only two options. That ignores the historical massively multiplayer game play where hundreds on a server were all engaged in the same event at the same time. And no, I don't mean fluffy Halloween events where everyone essentially solos or parties up in tiny groups and go about their individual and solitary pursuits maybe seeing others as they speed by to complete whatever task they're on but that's about the extent of the interactivity.
I do agree with your "who cares, have fun" part but your lack of knowledge about what they're all about when they do behave like mmorpgs I can't agree with.
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Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
It is actually the heart of the discussion. If you understand the WHY behind someone's desire for a playstyle you can actually have that discussion as opposed to simply speaking at each other.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The more I see of new games, the more I think that games are being deliberately misrepresented to the public as "massively multiplayer". It looks more like a developer is trying to apply a label to a product in order to drive sales. Players may think that massively multiplayer somehow involves grouping and/or cooperative game play, where it appears that developers are trying to associate the MMO term with "many players existing concurrently".
The MMO moniker is no more a representation of how the game operates than the RPG part. It has become a near-meaningless marketing term.
I’ve said it for years now... MMO=/=MMORPG. Mmorpg’s derived from pen and paper games. The RPG is what signifies what type of game it is. An MMO could be anything.
Partly correct. It still should be massively multiplayer and online But yes, an MMO can have nothing to do with an RPG.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes, 100% soloable and 100% groupable, but have the group stuff give slightly better rewards.
I've played many games where they actually punished players for grouping and gave less XP....They would say well you can kill faster in a group so we will lower your XP...To me, that is the wrong message...It should be for every member in your group you get XX% more XP. That way players are encouraged to group. Also give better rewards for incentives for players to group.
MMOS should always be made with grouping in mind. It is by default what the genre is, a multiplayer rpg online. Now with that said they should have solo activities to occupy peoples time while looking for groups and for those with a short windows of playtime periodically.
On top of that I firmly believe the game should be designed with GUILDS in mind. Not Soloplayer, not the general server community as a whole, Not Lowman statics. (Cough FFXIV Cough). Again can have some stuff for them but should be the entire focus.
I am fine with being able to solo to max level as well, as long as it is at a drastically reduced rate to those grouping. Talking about a 2-3xs slower rate.
The problem with making things too soloable and making soloing almost the same progression as grouping you remove the ability to group. People always will do what is in the path of least resistance. If the vast majority only solo those who want to group have no choice but to solo due to ridiculous wait times. Same goes for other aspects of the game... such as If guilds are just for vanity purposes most people will not join guilds outside their inner circle of 5-8ppl, which is not a guild. That is how everything in life works. Alot of games have the stick (The option to do something), but leave out the carrot (The reason/drive to do it).
Soloing designed Content should be Gathering, Crafting, Solo Leveling Activities (Slower but doable), Farming Items from Mobs, solo based questing, Some solo instances, Solo based PVP Activities, Most Economic based activities (Trade, AH, Sales, ect), Player housing
Grouping designed Content: Primary Leveling (fastest progression), Group based quest, All Endgame Level Bosses, All endgame Level Instances, All higher level open world dungeons, Group Based PvP, guild housing/bases
At endgame I say the game should be at least 75% Group / 25% solo, with at least 75% of the group content being guild focused.
There are thousands of offline rpgs and coop-games which are for the solo minded people... in my mind they should play them and not demand every game be designed for them. If someone's lifestyle changes and they drop from say 20-30hrs a week ingame to a max of 5-10... the game should not be changed to fit thier new play style, that person should just have to admit they can no longer play mmos as their life priorities have changed. And they should switch to games that fit the new lifestyle.
The shift to solo player, lower and lower man groups, anti-guild game design, and so on is doing alot of damage to what made the mmo genre something special to begin with.
Without grouping, without guilds you do not have a good mmo, you have a subpar online coop game.
Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
It is actually the heart of the discussion. If you understand the WHY behind someone's desire for a playstyle you can actually have that discussion as opposed to simply speaking at each other.
No you don't understand you have been here since May of 2007 and I'm surprised that in all that time you have never come across this question on these boards. I myself have answered this question about ten times. No kidding, always when a discussion comes about soloing in an MMORPG, someone would inevitably ask ''why are you soloing in an MMORPG, why don't you go play a single player game instead?"
That is why I said the reason is not important because obviously even in the days of Everquest people soloed with druids and necromancers for instance. So it is a valid play style that should not require an explanation and considering your length of stay and number of posts I'm surprised you asked is all.
People react to soloing like you're doing something wrong and should explain it. Why would that play style that has existed since the days of Everquest (not sure about UO) draw criticism and questions.
The absolute worst is when the poster who asked the question about whether a particular MMORPG can be soloed is told in no uncertain terms that 'you're playing the game wrong'.
Well first of all mmo means Massively Multiplayer Online not co-up and from your text you get co-up not mmo. So basically mmo mean that there are a lot of people that you have the potential to group up with or even work against but you do not always play with them. How ever most content in mmo are solo able but not all as you have said or written in this case.
Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
It is actually the heart of the discussion. If you understand the WHY behind someone's desire for a playstyle you can actually have that discussion as opposed to simply speaking at each other.
No you don't understand you have been here since May of 2007 and I'm surprised that in all that time you have never come across this question on these boards. I myself have answered this question about ten times. No kidding, always when a discussion comes about soloing in an MMORPG, someone would inevitably ask ''why are you soloing in an MMORPG, why don't you go play a single player game instead?"
That is why I said the reason is not important because obviously even in the days of Everquest people soloed with druids and necromancers for instance. So it is a valid play style that should not require an explanation and considering your length of stay and number of posts I'm surprised you asked is all.
People react to soloing like you're doing something wrong and should explain it. Why would that play style that has existed since the days of Everquest (not sure about UO) draw criticism and questions.
The absolute worst is when the poster who asked the question about whether a particular MMORPG can be soloed is told in no uncertain terms that 'you're playing the game wrong'.
You are projecting what you want to argue. Pretty much you are objecting by saying I am discussing it wrong which is fairly ironic
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Long story short,i see the problems in these game designs because i walk around in games always thinking how to improve them and why they feel frustrating.
The biggest problem i see in game designs is they cater to RMT activity that also breaks game economies.This is directly tied to grouping and could be fixed via soloing "ideas".
So my workaround would be that loot drops ONLY drop to a solo player,you cannot be in a group.This removes those groups sitting on an item to sell it in shout chat.This removes the ability of rmt to invite people into their group so the player can go afk to ovoid a heavy grind.
Grouping can still be a major factor in a game via "camps"for xp and/or guild ideas that create guild parties to gain perks for the guild.
This would leave us with only one issue and that is gold botters ruining game economies.This is more about the developer and their laziness to police their own game.Developers don't give two shits about their game unless it costs them money or lot's of people complain.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
Some people like seeing other players running about and talking to them in chat and also feel the world is occupied but they don't want the hassle of grouping with people and having to deal with them I guess. You cannot chat with people in a single player game. There is no one to talk to or share the game space with. Grouping isn't the only way to share a game.
It can be very taxing and stressful to deal with people who are not interested in the group but just merely run ahead pulling stuff and doing their own thing with nary a word in between. It can be very horrid actually.
Games are designed in ways where such individuals will often be in your group. It is hard to be able to find people to group with that share your concept of grouping and it is becoming more apparent that people don't want to interact much. Chatting is fine but grouping becomes a chore.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
MMORPGs based on Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior/Everquest/World of Warcraft all feature out of control vertical progression and are totally gear-dependent. The ultimate goal in all these of games boils down to the personal quest for wealth and power. In order to gain more wealth and power. Rinse and Repeat, Ad Infinitum. Players have very little incentive to help others or even speak to others unless those others are somehow aiding them in their endless quest for wealth and power. Guilds exist mainly to make the quest for gaining wealth and power faster and easier. Especially Raiding Guilds. However, in the end, there's not much the player can do with his or her vast sums of wealth and god-like power except for to seek even more wealth and power. By doing the same things the player did to gain that wealth and power in the first place.
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
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I think GW2 had a really good setting for their Open World Content, where you could solo most of it, but there were World Bosses and large scale events that while you didn't need to group for, they needed larger gatherings of players to complete.
I thought that was brilliant design to build a social feeling to a game, where players could simply gather together and work together towards a single goal without needing to form into official groups, and all that jazz, and everyone would get a reward for being a part of the event.
Totally Brilliant Design, to allow a Solo feel in a interactive cooperative world.
As far as Dungeons go, I think DDO owned that one better than anything ever to exist before then and since them. The idea that Dungeons had their own difficulty settings, and could be done Solo, or Small Group or Full Group, just made dungeon running flat out perfect in that game.
Ideally an MMO should have the Open World feel of GW2, and the Dungeons of DDO.
I would play the hell out of that game.. and I wager spend far more money than my wife would be happy about.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think GW2 had a really good setting for their Open World Content, where you could solo most of it, but there were World Bosses and large scale events that while you didn't need to group for, they needed larger gatherings of players to complete.
I thought that was brilliant design to build a social feeling to a game, where players could simply gather together and work together towards a single goal without needing to form into official groups, and all that jazz, and everyone would get a reward for being a part of the event.
Totally Brilliant Design, to allow a Solo feel in a interactive cooperative world.
As far as Dungeons go, I think DDO owned that one better than anything ever to exist before then and since them. The idea that Dungeons had their own difficulty settings, and could be done Solo, or Small Group or Full Group, just made dungeon running flat out perfect in that game.
Ideally an MMO should have the Open World feel of GW2, and the Dungeons of DDO.
I would play the hell out of that game.. and I wager spend far more money than my wife would be happy about.
Except a “setting” completely breaks immersion. DDO is a great game I just don’t think it qualifies as an mmorpg. Not to me at all.
I think GW2 had a really good setting for their Open World Content, where you could solo most of it, but there were World Bosses and large scale events that while you didn't need to group for, they needed larger gatherings of players to complete.
I thought that was brilliant design to build a social feeling to a game, where players could simply gather together and work together towards a single goal without needing to form into official groups, and all that jazz, and everyone would get a reward for being a part of the event.
Totally Brilliant Design, to allow a Solo feel in a interactive cooperative world.
As far as Dungeons go, I think DDO owned that one better than anything ever to exist before then and since them. The idea that Dungeons had their own difficulty settings, and could be done Solo, or Small Group or Full Group, just made dungeon running flat out perfect in that game.
Ideally an MMO should have the Open World feel of GW2, and the Dungeons of DDO.
I would play the hell out of that game.. and I wager spend far more money than my wife would be happy about.
Except a “setting” completely breaks immersion. DDO is a great game I just don’t think it qualifies as an mmorpg. Not to me at all.
To each their own.. we shall disagree.
I thought DDO was a great example of an MMO based on the D&D rules/world setup.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think GW2 had a really good setting for their Open World Content, where you could solo most of it, but there were World Bosses and large scale events that while you didn't need to group for, they needed larger gatherings of players to complete.
I thought that was brilliant design to build a social feeling to a game, where players could simply gather together and work together towards a single goal without needing to form into official groups, and all that jazz, and everyone would get a reward for being a part of the event.
Totally Brilliant Design, to allow a Solo feel in a interactive cooperative world.
As far as Dungeons go, I think DDO owned that one better than anything ever to exist before then and since them. The idea that Dungeons had their own difficulty settings, and could be done Solo, or Small Group or Full Group, just made dungeon running flat out perfect in that game.
Ideally an MMO should have the Open World feel of GW2, and the Dungeons of DDO.
I would play the hell out of that game.. and I wager spend far more money than my wife would be happy about.
Except a “setting” completely breaks immersion. DDO is a great game I just don’t think it qualifies as an mmorpg. Not to me at all.
To each their own.. we shall disagree.
I thought DDO was a great example of an MMO based on the D&D rules/world setup.
Yes definitely. I've played a lot of MMOs and never group with anyone in the past 5 years.
Can I ask what draws you to MMOs vs single player RPGs? If I never grouped with anyone in 5 years I know that I would really be focused on some of the great single players RPGs that have come out since then. I have a few Kickstarted ones that should be coming out soon and am eagerly waiting for those... Just wondering what you like about MMOs as a single player.
Some people like seeing other players running about and talking to them in chat and also feel the world is occupied but they don't want the hassle of grouping with people and having to deal with them I guess. You cannot chat with people in a single player game. There is no one to talk to or share the game space with. Grouping isn't the only way to share a game.
It can be very taxing and stressful to deal with people who are not interested in the group but just merely run ahead pulling stuff and doing their own thing with nary a word in between. It can be very horrid actually.
Games are designed in ways where such individuals will often be in your group. It is hard to be able to find people to group with that share your concept of grouping and it is becoming more apparent that people don't want to interact much. Chatting is fine but grouping becomes a chore.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
MMORPGs based on Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior/Everquest/World of Warcraft all feature out of control vertical progression and are totally gear-dependent. The ultimate goal in all these of games boils down to the personal quest for wealth and power. In order to gain more wealth and power. Rinse and Repeat, Ad Infinitum. Players have very little incentive to help others or even speak to others unless those others are somehow aiding them in their endless quest for wealth and power. Guilds exist mainly to make the quest for gaining wealth and power faster and easier. Especially Raiding Guilds. However, in the end, there's not much the player can do with his or her vast sums of wealth and god-like power except for to seek even more wealth and power. By doing the same things the player did to gain that wealth and power in the first place.
You do know that the primary goal of this paradigm is to show off to the have nots who can't stand content like raiding and pvp? Flaunting those riches and gear with neat graphics allows them the illusion that they are better than the average gamer.
I prefer content that is challenging enough to warrant a group where most people get in one but can be soloed of you learn it and do it right.
Single player games have proven that solo content could be challenging if the developers bothered to make it so. I'm fairly certain they make group content more challenging in order to justify the better rewards, the greater amount of developer attention and the faster progression that groups enjoy. Let's face it, the majority of "solo" content is usually relegated to crafting, gathering, faction grinding and menial tasks. The majority of the story and incentives and progression are tied up into grouping and raiding. SWTOR was the first real exception to this paradigm.
It's all an illusion. The levels, mobs, and gear all become stronger/more powerful from one zone/area/dungeon to the next in order to give us an illusion of progression.
True the mob AI may become more complex and challenging as we rise in level, but dealing with that and overcoming it depends on the skill level of the individual player or group. So, you could say that the only real progression in these games is the rise in our own skill (hopefully) at playing the game. Learning and eventually mastering all the features, systems, and mechanics.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I think GW2 had a really good setting for their Open World Content, where you could solo most of it, but there were World Bosses and large scale events that while you didn't need to group for, they needed larger gatherings of players to complete.
I thought that was brilliant design to build a social feeling to a game, where players could simply gather together and work together towards a single goal without needing to form into official groups, and all that jazz, and everyone would get a reward for being a part of the event.
Totally Brilliant Design, to allow a Solo feel in a interactive cooperative world.
As far as Dungeons go, I think DDO owned that one better than anything ever to exist before then and since them. The idea that Dungeons had their own difficulty settings, and could be done Solo, or Small Group or Full Group, just made dungeon running flat out perfect in that game.
Ideally an MMO should have the Open World feel of GW2, and the Dungeons of DDO.
I would play the hell out of that game.. and I wager spend far more money than my wife would be happy about.
Except a “setting” completely breaks immersion. DDO is a great game I just don’t think it qualifies as an mmorpg. Not to me at all.
To each their own.. we shall disagree.
I thought DDO was a great example of an MMO based on the D&D rules/world setup.
It is a great example of mmod&d
This sounds like you are just making up shit to be disagreeable.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Some people like seeing other players running about and talking to them in chat and also feel the world is occupied but they don't want the hassle of grouping with people and having to deal with them I guess. You cannot chat with people in a single player game. There is no one to talk to or share the game space with. Grouping isn't the only way to share a game.
It can be very taxing and stressful to deal with people who are not interested in the group but just merely run ahead pulling stuff and doing their own thing with nary a word in between. It can be very horrid actually.
Games are designed in ways where such individuals will often be in your group. It is hard to be able to find people to group with that share your concept of grouping and it is becoming more apparent that people don't want to interact much. Chatting is fine but grouping becomes a chore.
I don't see why the reason a person plays an MMORPG becomes a point of discussion. Many people have different ideas of why they want to play one. There is no' right' or 'only' way.
Some games are more fun to solo than others. I found Vanguard a huge ton of fun to solo.
But the exploration was there.
It's true, the single player games offer better experiences but they end after "so many hours."
At least that's my guess for his statement. For me I actually enjoy grouping but have no tolerance for assholes so I seldom group unless I know the people involved or someone asks me to help.
and then I enjoy myself.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I haven't played ESO for a year but the last time I was in Cyrodiil on a weekend and one of the three sides was trying to control all the inner keeps to crown someone emperor or making a concerted effort to open the gates to the Elder Scrolls temples to swipe another side's scrolls and 300 players in the one seamless Cyrodiil zone were focused on accomplishing that or stopping the other side from doing it, that was some real MMO game play happening there.
Those kinds of things happen mostly in the RvR games these days but it wasn't always that way. That used to happen in PvE game play as well and was pretty common in the early MMOs like AC, UO and EQ. It still happens occasionally in games like GW2 and it certainly used to happen in Rift when there were zone invasions - probably still does for anyone still playing - but it's rare these days.
Soloing, duoing or small 4-6 man group game play was something we did to level grind and pass the time until the next large scale massively multiplayer thing but they weren't the only thing as is the case nowadays in the vast majority of MMOs
That small scale stuff has become so institutionalized that there's a whole generation of new MMO players who think that's what MMOs were always all about. They weren't and they still don't have to be all about that,
Most people in this thread are basically comparing solo vs. a party of 4-6 as if those were the only two options. That ignores the historical massively multiplayer game play where hundreds on a server were all engaged in the same event at the same time. And no, I don't mean fluffy Halloween events where everyone essentially solos or parties up in tiny groups and go about their individual and solitary pursuits maybe seeing others as they speed by to complete whatever task they're on but that's about the extent of the interactivity.
I do agree with your "who cares, have fun" part but your lack of knowledge about what they're all about when they do behave like mmorpgs I can't agree with.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
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But yes, an MMO can have nothing to do with an RPG.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I've played many games where they actually punished players for grouping and gave less XP....They would say well you can kill faster in a group so we will lower your XP...To me, that is the wrong message...It should be for every member in your group you get XX% more XP. That way players are encouraged to group. Also give better rewards for incentives for players to group.
On top of that I firmly believe the game should be designed with GUILDS in mind. Not Soloplayer, not the general server community as a whole, Not Lowman statics. (Cough FFXIV Cough). Again can have some stuff for them but should be the entire focus.
I am fine with being able to solo to max level as well, as long as it is at a drastically reduced rate to those grouping. Talking about a 2-3xs slower rate.
The problem with making things too soloable and making soloing almost the same progression as grouping you remove the ability to group. People always will do what is in the path of least resistance. If the vast majority only solo those who want to group have no choice but to solo due to ridiculous wait times. Same goes for other aspects of the game... such as If guilds are just for vanity purposes most people will not join guilds outside their inner circle of 5-8ppl, which is not a guild. That is how everything in life works. Alot of games have the stick (The option to do something), but leave out the carrot (The reason/drive to do it).
Soloing designed Content should be Gathering, Crafting, Solo Leveling Activities (Slower but doable), Farming Items from Mobs, solo based questing, Some solo instances, Solo based PVP Activities, Most Economic based activities (Trade, AH, Sales, ect), Player housing
Grouping designed Content: Primary Leveling (fastest progression), Group based quest, All Endgame Level Bosses, All endgame Level Instances, All higher level open world dungeons, Group Based PvP, guild housing/bases
At endgame I say the game should be at least 75% Group / 25% solo, with at least 75% of the group content being guild focused.
There are thousands of offline rpgs and coop-games which are for the solo minded people... in my mind they should play them and not demand every game be designed for them. If someone's lifestyle changes and they drop from say 20-30hrs a week ingame to a max of 5-10... the game should not be changed to fit thier new play style, that person should just have to admit they can no longer play mmos as their life priorities have changed. And they should switch to games that fit the new lifestyle.
The shift to solo player, lower and lower man groups, anti-guild game design, and so on is doing alot of damage to what made the mmo genre something special to begin with.
Without grouping, without guilds you do not have a good mmo, you have a subpar online coop game.
That is why I said the reason is not important because obviously even in the days of Everquest people soloed with druids and necromancers for instance. So it is a valid play style that should not require an explanation and considering your length of stay and number of posts I'm surprised you asked is all.
People react to soloing like you're doing something wrong and should explain it. Why would that play style that has existed since the days of Everquest (not sure about UO) draw criticism and questions.
The absolute worst is when the poster who asked the question about whether a particular MMORPG can be soloed is told in no uncertain terms that 'you're playing the game wrong'.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kidding
Or am I....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The biggest problem i see in game designs is they cater to RMT activity that also breaks game economies.This is directly tied to grouping and could be fixed via soloing "ideas".
So my workaround would be that loot drops ONLY drop to a solo player,you cannot be in a group.This removes those groups sitting on an item to sell it in shout chat.This removes the ability of rmt to invite people into their group so the player can go afk to ovoid a heavy grind.
Grouping can still be a major factor in a game via "camps"for xp and/or guild ideas that create guild parties to gain perks for the guild.
This would leave us with only one issue and that is gold botters ruining game economies.This is more about the developer and their laziness to police their own game.Developers don't give two shits about their game unless it costs them money or lot's of people complain.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MMORPGs based on Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior/Everquest/World of Warcraft all feature out of control vertical progression and are totally gear-dependent. The ultimate goal in all these of games boils down to the personal quest for wealth and power. In order to gain more wealth and power. Rinse and Repeat, Ad Infinitum. Players have very little incentive to help others or even speak to others unless those others are somehow aiding them in their endless quest for wealth and power. Guilds exist mainly to make the quest for gaining wealth and power faster and easier. Especially Raiding Guilds. However, in the end, there's not much the player can do with his or her vast sums of wealth and god-like power except for to seek even more wealth and power. By doing the same things the player did to gain that wealth and power in the first place.
I thought that was brilliant design to build a social feeling to a game, where players could simply gather together and work together towards a single goal without needing to form into official groups, and all that jazz, and everyone would get a reward for being a part of the event.
Totally Brilliant Design, to allow a Solo feel in a interactive cooperative world.
As far as Dungeons go, I think DDO owned that one better than anything ever to exist before then and since them. The idea that Dungeons had their own difficulty settings, and could be done Solo, or Small Group or Full Group, just made dungeon running flat out perfect in that game.
Ideally an MMO should have the Open World feel of GW2, and the Dungeons of DDO.
I would play the hell out of that game.. and I wager spend far more money than my wife would be happy about.
I thought DDO was a great example of an MMO based on the D&D rules/world setup.