"Loss is a Turning Point" in EVE Online Says CCP CEO

System

"Loss is a Turning Point" in EVE Online Says CCP CEO

According to CCP CEO Hilmar Pétursson, devastating loss is a "turning point" for players in EVE Online.

Read the full story here

toxicmango

Classic abuser warped logic. "By making you hurt, I'm really helping you. You should be thanking me."

When paying customers are made to hurt by those they pay money to, they stop being paying customers.

cheyane

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

Aeander

cheyane said:

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

Right. Nothing makes me want to put down a game faster than having to replay lost progress. That applies to everything. MMOs, single player games, everything.

Siris23

Combine a devastating loss with how easy it is for a new player to over commit themselves financially and you see why a lot of players just quit.

xpsync

cheyane said:

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

Exactly what i thought too, it's a turning point alright, uninstall.

Eve is amazing, but of the 3 or 4 runs i took at it, always turned into mining rocks, distinctly remember saying this time no mining, i'm going to do all that cool stuff.... time goes on... f me!!! all i'm doing is mining! again! lol

Just too much of a traditional mmorpg lover.

KnightFalz

cheyane said:

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

That's largely the point being made.

Eve Online is such that players will at some point have their resolve tested by adversity. Some will be pushed away by that. Those that remain are the ones truly committed to the play and experience the game provides.

There is also an allusion of how shared adversity enhances the sense of fellowship and community in a game as well.

I haven't played Eve, but from what I've heard of it I can see both being true, or at least understand how they could be seen as true.

xpsync

Aeander said:

cheyane said:

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

Right. Nothing makes me want to put down a game faster than having to replay lost progress. That applies to everything. MMOs, single player games, everything.

It's why games like Fallout sp and the like turn into just hitting F5 every 2 seconds and is why F76 to me is so much freaking better.

Pala

People should learn that loss is part of gameplay. Not just in Eve, if there is no loss there is also no point. I dont play Eve but in all games these days you have to go at the hardest possible setting to get some challenge because snowflakes get turned away as soon as they die.

I played Eve years ago, and was sold on the premise that this a dangerous environment with some safe spaces. It wasnt dangerous at all, tried low sec and null sec and got bored as there was really no danger. Think I lost a couple of cheap ships in the process and thought wow, these blood thirsty savages are actually mostly just mining and hanging around. 

Erillion

Pala said:

People should learn that loss is part of gameplay. Not just in Eve, if there is no loss there is also no point. I dont play Eve but in all games these days you have to go at the hardest possible setting to get some challenge because snowflakes get turned away as soon as they die.

I played Eve years ago, and was sold on the premise that this a dangerous environment with some safe spaces. It wasnt dangerous at all, tried low sec and null sec and got bored as there was really no danger. Think I lost a couple of cheap ships in the process and thought wow, these blood thirsty savages are actually mostly just mining and hanging around. 

You might want to check out wormhole space. No local chat to see enemies. Changing routes. Somehwhat tougher NPCs.

You might like it.

Have fun

Kyleran

Aeander said:

cheyane said:

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

Right. Nothing makes me want to put down a game faster than having to replay lost progress. That applies to everything. MMOs, single player games, everything.

Here's your trophy. 

Aeander

Kyleran said:

Aeander said:

cheyane said:

Perhaps my way of thinking is different but for me that would be the point where I leave. I could be soft but the effort I put into a game being wiped out isn't going to make me want to under any circumstances to continue.

Right. Nothing makes me want to put down a game faster than having to replay lost progress. That applies to everything. MMOs, single player games, everything.

Here's your trophy. 

No thanks. I don't want your trophy. I'm not here for trophies or achievements. I don't care how my gaming experience is perceived by anyone other than myself. I'm here to experience my games at my leisure, on my terms, for the money that I put down on them. Just like everyone else.

Tryhards aren't the only gamers whose dollar bills matter, much as they like to pretend otherwise.

ChildoftheShadows

All of you complaining would never play the game to begin with. It has nothing to do with you. Why comment?

Aeander

ChildoftheShadows said:

All of you complaining would never play the game to begin with. It has nothing to do with you. Why comment?

Are you new here?

Commenting on threads for games that you have no interest in is the past time of these forums. We're all guilty of it, and I think we just like hearing ourselves talk... err, type.

Sovrath

Pala said:

People should learn that loss is part of gameplay. Not just in Eve, if there is no loss there is also no point. I dont play Eve but in all games these days you have to go at the hardest possible setting to get some challenge because snowflakes get turned away as soon as they die.

I played Eve years ago, and was sold on the premise that this a dangerous environment with some safe spaces. It wasnt dangerous at all, tried low sec and null sec and got bored as there was really no danger. Think I lost a couple of cheap ships in the process and thought wow, these blood thirsty savages are actually mostly just mining and hanging around. 

You have to remember, there's "loss" and there's LOSS.

Not everyone is enamored of extreme loss that makes them work extra hard just to get back to where they were.

Each game (no matter what type of game it is) handles loss differently. And each person is different to how they warm up to that loss.

I play Darkest Dungeon and have had a group wipe in the first fight and it's no big deal. That's sort of the fun.

But I remember reading on this forum of a player who just couldn't take it.

So yeah, I have no problems with loss in Darkest Dungeon but I might not be the type to deal with losing several large ships in EVE.

Yet, for others, that's part of the fun.

And some games have loss "lite." You don't really lose anything other than "you didn't win."

Erillion

In EVE there is LOSS, as Sovrath put it.

If i make a mistake, if I am stupid, i can potentially lose everything i gained in 14 years of playing EVE. 

No corpse runs. No armor degradation.  Things will be gone completely.  I may get back some insurance on basic ship hulls ... but the prize of basic ship hulls has long since stopped to be an issue for me. Its the modules, the cargo, the special items, the collectors items ... to lose those is LOSS.

Not everyone can deal with that.

Rage quits are common in EVE Online.

Funny enough ... you can also never be really defeated in EVE. Unless your morale is broken. In EVE you can always come back. IF you want.

Have fun

Wizardry

ChildoftheShadows said:

All of you complaining would never play the game to begin with. It has nothing to do with you. Why comment?

I ask the same thing,WHY is this shallow comment brought up, are Eve players now thinking....hmmm lose a ship what a novel idea,that must be painful?
it is like telling a baseball player ,you know if that 100mph pitch hits you it will hurt.

So whom exactly is this directed at,your not telling Eve players anything they don't already know and if we don't care because the game is imo crap,then who is this pointless comment directed at ?
Are Eve players high five each other,YEAH BABY,lose that ship FEEL THE PAIN !!!.

Amathe

I think it's great that a game with this much risk exists for players who like that. I am not such a player. 

Aeander

Wizardry said:

ChildoftheShadows said:

All of you complaining would never play the game to begin with. It has nothing to do with you. Why comment?

I ask the same thing,WHY is this shallow comment brought up, are Eve players now thinking....hmmm lose a ship what a novel idea,that must be painful?
it is like telling a baseball player ,you know if that 100mph pitch hits you it will hurt.

So whom exactly is this directed at,your not telling Eve players anything they don't already know and if we don't care because the game is imo crap,then who is this pointless comment directed at ?
Are Eve players high five each other,YEAH BABY,lose that ship FEEL THE PAIN !!!.

Mate, you are the literal king of commenting where you don't belong. Usually with something so off-base as to be non-sequitor.

Your grace bears a crown and scepter engraved with the words "cheap and lazy," and you stand ready to stamp your every proclamation with a 2/10. 

itchmon

The person who compares an unforgiving video game to actual abuse is far far off base. You can unsubscribe or uninstall a game and the game can't do a damn thing about it. The same can't be said for an abusive relationship.

For eve, it's the risk of loss that hooks many of us, the commiseration with others that organizes our community and the community that keeps us through times of loss and those times when we win.

Kyleran

Erillion said:

<snip>

Not everyone can deal with that.

Rage quits are common in EVE Online.

Funny enough ... you can also never be really defeated in EVE. Unless your morale is broken. In EVE you can always come back. IF you want.

Awesome post @Erillon, especially this last part.

Most here are missing the CEOs point though, yes there is loss and LOSS, but regardless those who stay with EVE generally do so through social support interaction.

I was three months into EVE, had skilled up enough to fly a badly fit Raven (which I could not afford to replace) and joined my first null sec corp.

Back then it was not so easy to transport ships / modules so my corp mates spent several hours escorting me 47 hops to their home system. 

Not realizing how totally noob I actually was, once we got there most left for the evening and no one remembered to share the POS bookmark or password.

So one member stayed behind to show me the ropes of belt ratting when suddenly 5 reds showed up in local.

"Warp to the POS" my corp mate shouts...and a cold chill went down my spine...wut?

Well, the enemy of course warp scrambled and killed my prized ship / pod leaving me back where I started in high sec broke and certain my new corp had played me for a sucker.

But no, they were quite upset with themselves for overlooking this key piece of my training, apologizing profusely for the mistake.  

One member gave me his well fitted Raven, no strings attached....and his one act of kindness lead me to play for 10 more years, which I paid forward multiple times helping others recover from their losses later on.

Erillion

In EVE one mans irreplaceable loss is another mans spare change.

Let others help you. Let others laugh at you. Laugh with them. Try again. Harder.

Have fun

Sovrath

Kyleran said:

One member gave me his well fitted Raven, no strings attached....and his one act of kindness lead me to play for 10 more years, which I paid forward multiple times helping others recover from their losses later on.

That's what some people who decry open world ffa pvp games seem to miss. 

Guild/Clan "whatever" is important and do help out, and in general one can figure out a way to be viable again.

Doesn't mean  they have to like it or play these games, but when someone compares these games to Themepark mmorpg's where you are raiding for your purples or "whatever" and then compare a game like EVE to that type of game, then it's just completely inaccurate.

Ozmodan

The old Eve adage always applies, only fly what you can afford to lose.  Everyone wants these fancy ships loaded with expensive equipment.  Unless you can throw lots of money at the game, not a good idea, especially in dangerous areas.

klash2def

EVE is Psychological more than anything. It really messes with your mental when you are doing well, making tons of ISK, buying top ships, best fittings, implants etc.. you're living the good life and out of nowhere BAM!!

You've lost everything. A run you've done 100 times, time 101, somebody popped you out of warp its 5v1 and now you've lost everything trying to move your stuff around. DAMN.

I see why a lot of people quit the game after taking a heavy loss.. I've had this experience over the last 10 years with EVE. Personally the game checks all the boxes for me, its why I keep returning, but I have to take breaks when playing it because it can get a little too real when you consider all the different personalities and corps... idk man just the way the game is set up.. you will lose when you don't want to lose. Things get taken away from you. People you trust will backstab you. EVE has a lot of layers.

It can really mess with your mental if you forget its a game and don't take breaks. Its easy to do that ya know, blur the reality lines. Everything feels real, that's why I think people rage quit. Also I think the fact that the skills system is based on real world time, it does something to the player's reality. Its a game but its all happening in real time. Everything is dynamic. This is sort of unique to EVE Online in the MMO space. All of this is also very attractive for a lot of people

I take year long breaks from EVE. I didn't play at all Last year, I'm back in the saddle this year..no hard hauling, some ratting, not making myself a big target.. so far no major loss but I know its going to happen. I'm much more casual now than I used to be and that helps, way less pressure. Not working for a corp, just in business for myself.. its a slow process but I'm enjoying being casual in EVE. I'm actually having fun with EVE for the first time in a decade. WHEN I die.. and lose it all.. oh well, I'll hang it up until next year. There are other games out there to play lol. I guess I'm kind of playing a self imposed perma-death mode?

My advice, to stay around for longer than 1 month, don't fly shit you are afraid to lose, understand loss is GOING to happen, and know that you don't HAVE to join a big corp asap. The help corp is your friend. Learn how the game mechanics work but also sit back and watch how the players are. Learn the culture of EVE.

Also read contracts... a lot of people get ganked doing those... make sure you pay attention to where people are sending you..You can play solo in the high secs and just enjoy the story.. which btw there is one.. don't rush to get involved with corp business and politics.

Above all else.. take breaks and reset. Its only a game no matter how real it feels.

People act like playing EVE casual is taboo. Maybe it is. I don't care though, You don't have to be hardcore into the world of EVE if you don't want.

Just play it at a comfortable level for you and you'll be okay. It's just a game.

TacticalZombeh

So I started playing EVE on or near release. It was on and off due to military commitments but I was able to keep the training progressing. Did some mining and ratting, moved into some middle Sec territory for better profits and challenge. Joined a small corp, did a few things with them but mostly I was self-supporting. Upgraded, got a hauler and eventually had enough money to get a nice shiny new corvette. Had small factory production going to support my ammo and whatever needs and was having fun.

Then I deployed. Was out of the game for a couple of years. When I came back, my nice little homestead was now situated in ZeroSec and my Corp didn't exist. Interesting. Space had changed a lot. Went on a jaunt to a high sec station and got blown up by gate campers.

Neat. Podded my way back home, got my ship back through insurance, but my funds were depleted. Tried again, shot down, podded etc. Well I knew I wouldn't get anywhere with my other ships since everything was locked down so I quit for another couple of years.

Decided to create a new account and give it another go. Things had change enough about the game that I figured it'd give me a fresh start and let me relearn.

Got going, did some mining, some ratting. While out mining in my little ship I was introduced to suicide gankers and EVE protection rackets. In HiSec.

That was all she wrote.

EVE Online is a Psychopaths' Playground.

Have fun.