As much as it may
work, the Keeper profession may not be for me.
As much as I try, lore in not my style. I'm not patient enough to follow
lore deeply in any mmorpg…… GREAT for everyone that does.
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
One thing to note, only Keepers with appropriate skill level can identify certain dispositions. So keepers will play important role in group environment and not just a puzzle solver as a mini game.
One thing to note, only Keepers with appropriate skill level can identify certain dispositions. So keepers will play important role in group environment and not just a puzzle solver as a mini game.
Can you link to where that is confirmed? From what we have seen in streams dispositions are simply a title over a mobs head that everyone can see.
Also, that would go against the whole "being a keeper is optional" theory that VR has been repeating for so long (though I have disregarded that as false info from the beginning.)
Certain races have bonuses against dispositions, that is known.
One thing to note, only Keepers with appropriate skill level can identify certain dispositions. So keepers will play important role in group environment and not just a puzzle solver as a mini game.
Can you link to where that is confirmed? From what we have seen in streams dispositions are simply a title over a mobs head that everyone can see.
Also, that would go against the whole "being a keeper is optional" theory that VR has been repeating for so long (though I have disregarded that as false info from the beginning.)
Certain races have bonuses against dispositions, that is known.
I think you're confusing "optional" with "useless". They're not the same thing. The keeper profession can still be useful in situations, while still being considered optional.
Unless you think it will be a requirement to know a mobs disposition in order to defeat it?
Content thats overly complicated with odd steps always end up on the internet. Its up to people to decide if thats how they want to play content. If its not fun, I just hope the Alpha and Beta testers let them know. Same if it is fun. Im not gonna judge till I play it.
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
I don't want a Perception system that is an end in itself. Like @Wizardry suggested, perception is something learned over time.
Attempting to abstract this into "the character knows this", when the player doesn't may be a colossal waste of developer's time and effort. If this Perception system is indeed hidden in the mob's name, as I suspect, then the player will know this information long before the character will. If it turns into an elaborate puzzle system, the various spoiler sites will spoil that probably before Beta concludes.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
One thing to note, only Keepers with appropriate skill level can identify certain dispositions. So keepers will play important role in group environment and not just a puzzle solver as a mini game.
Can you link to where that is confirmed? From what we have seen in streams dispositions are simply a title over a mobs head that everyone can see.
Also, that would go against the whole "being a keeper is optional" theory that VR has been repeating for so long (though I have disregarded that as false info from the beginning.)
Certain races have bonuses against dispositions, that is known.
I think you're confusing "optional" with "useless". They're not the same thing. The keeper profession can still be useful in situations, while still being considered optional.
Unless you think it will be a requirement to know a mobs disposition in order to defeat it?
You dont seem to understand why VR is claiming that being a keeper/participating in the perception system is optional.
It is because the perception system is supposed to be a system based on providing extra lore/ story lines to the player. That is where the usefulness is as defined by VR. They have stated that it wont give a player an advantage/disadvantage if they opt in or opt out of the keeper system.
Again, ^ that has been questioned by myself and others many times. I dont believe it will end up actually providing the player no advantage other than extra lore/story as has been stated.
All we have been shown to this point is the first part of that quote that you didn't include (that I mentioned earlier) about prefixes to the npc names.
The entire quote reads:"These Dispositions will typically be portrayed by an adjective at the beginning of the NPC’s name, though there will be Dispositions only identifiable through the Perception system and rare, vision-altering Artifacts. "
My first thought is to be skeptical of what we are told by VR until we see it. They have told us a lot of things over the years that are not accurate. It is a learned response based on experience.
My second thought is one that I have repeated often but this is just another example to back it. VR needs to stop describing the perception system as optional. It isn't.
The only negative to becoming a keeper is having pop up dialogue windows on your screen when you don't want them (though I'm assuming we will be able to turn off the pop ups or be able to limit them to a text window in the ui). Your keepers tome should be something every character starts with.
You shouldn't have to opt in to becoming a keeper. Anyone who opts out will be gimping themselves (usually unintentionally because they don't know any better).
The whole perception system being optional seems like an excuse so that if it ends up being viewed poorly VR can go back and say it was always optional...when it never really was.
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
I don't want a Perception system that is an end in itself. Like @Wizardry suggested, perception is something learned over time.
Attempting to abstract this into "the character knows this", when the player doesn't may be a colossal waste of developer's time and effort. If this Perception system is indeed hidden in the mob's name, as I suspect, then the player will know this information long before the character will. If it turns into an elaborate puzzle system, the various spoiler sites will spoil that probably before Beta concludes.
You advance Perception just by playing the game. Same with mobs hp, first time you fight a mob you will have no idea how much hit points it has. Why should you in a game about exploration. Kill enough Goblins and your Perception goes enough when you mouse over a Goblin, you will know how much HP it has. Its not something where you have to go out and grind Perception. It just happens by playing the game.
Also areas will be based on level. So they would not add something that requires Perception to a level that would not be reachable by most players. But maybe your 5th time in that dungeon you been trying to get that sword in, you will notice something on that 5th visit that make your play experience a little different.
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
I don't want a Perception system that is an end in itself. Like @Wizardry suggested, perception is something learned over time.
Attempting to abstract this into "the character knows this", when the player doesn't may be a colossal waste of developer's time and effort. If this Perception system is indeed hidden in the mob's name, as I suspect, then the player will know this information long before the character will. If it turns into an elaborate puzzle system, the various spoiler sites will spoil that probably before Beta concludes.
You advance Perception just by playing the game. Same with mobs hp, first time you fight a mob you will have no idea how much hit points it has. Why should you in a game about exploration. Kill enough Goblins and your Perception goes enough when you mouse over a Goblin, you will know how much HP it has. Its not something where you have to go out and grind Perception. It just happens by playing the game.
Also areas will be based on level. So they would not add something that requires Perception to a level that would not be reachable by most players. But maybe your 5th time in that dungeon you been trying to get that sword in, you will notice something on that 5th visit that make your play experience a little different.
I hope their ability to implement matches your ability to read meaning and intent into words on a website. Noticing something the 5th or (50th) time through is something that will be fodder for spoiler sites.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Puzzles beyond a few minor ones in an MMORPG are definitely a disconnect or lack of research on the devs part. That seems to further a trend by smaller developers of new MMORPG titles who are trying to relate to the past without using time as a lens. Trying to create a game that is how it felt to you back then as opposed to how it really was.
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
I don't want a Perception system that is an end in itself. Like @Wizardry suggested, perception is something learned over time.
Attempting to abstract this into "the character knows this", when the player doesn't may be a colossal waste of developer's time and effort. If this Perception system is indeed hidden in the mob's name, as I suspect, then the player will know this information long before the character will. If it turns into an elaborate puzzle system, the various spoiler sites will spoil that probably before Beta concludes.
You advance Perception just by playing the game. Same with mobs hp, first time you fight a mob you will have no idea how much hit points it has. Why should you in a game about exploration. Kill enough Goblins and your Perception goes enough when you mouse over a Goblin, you will know how much HP it has. Its not something where you have to go out and grind Perception. It just happens by playing the game.
Also areas will be based on level. So they would not add something that requires Perception to a level that would not be reachable by most players. But maybe your 5th time in that dungeon you been trying to get that sword in, you will notice something on that 5th visit that make your play experience a little different.
I hope their ability to implement matches your ability to read meaning and intent into words on a website. Noticing something the 5th or (50th) time through is something that will be fodder for spoiler sites.
Or if you farm for 36hr straight, maybe your 1st time =-)
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
I don't want a Perception system that is an end in itself. Like @Wizardry suggested, perception is something learned over time.
Attempting to abstract this into "the character knows this", when the player doesn't may be a colossal waste of developer's time and effort. If this Perception system is indeed hidden in the mob's name, as I suspect, then the player will know this information long before the character will. If it turns into an elaborate puzzle system, the various spoiler sites will spoil that probably before Beta concludes.
You advance Perception just by playing the game. Same with mobs hp, first time you fight a mob you will have no idea how much hit points it has. Why should you in a game about exploration. Kill enough Goblins and your Perception goes enough when you mouse over a Goblin, you will know how much HP it has. Its not something where you have to go out and grind Perception. It just happens by playing the game.
Also areas will be based on level. So they would not add something that requires Perception to a level that would not be reachable by most players. But maybe your 5th time in that dungeon you been trying to get that sword in, you will notice something on that 5th visit that make your play experience a little different.
Several things scare me about this system:
- It seem like un needed back round boring stuff for the player that 90% wouldn't care about.
- Huge time sync for developers time for a boring feature.
- Huge recipe for disaster in bugs, rewards not showing up and player exp.
I have my own Perception..... Joppa is a strange guy, most wouldn't understand his thought process and his puzzle solving..... I can prove it too. The Perception system is a strange invention within it self.
It took me a long time to understand what is going on but i believe Joppa's puzzles have to do with the "Perception" system.
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it. He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
I don't want a Perception system that is an end in itself. Like @Wizardry suggested, perception is something learned over time.
Attempting to abstract this into "the character knows this", when the player doesn't may be a colossal waste of developer's time and effort. If this Perception system is indeed hidden in the mob's name, as I suspect, then the player will know this information long before the character will. If it turns into an elaborate puzzle system, the various spoiler sites will spoil that probably before Beta concludes.
You advance Perception just by playing the game. Same with mobs hp, first time you fight a mob you will have no idea how much hit points it has. Why should you in a game about exploration. Kill enough Goblins and your Perception goes enough when you mouse over a Goblin, you will know how much HP it has. Its not something where you have to go out and grind Perception. It just happens by playing the game.
Also areas will be based on level. So they would not add something that requires Perception to a level that would not be reachable by most players. But maybe your 5th time in that dungeon you been trying to get that sword in, you will notice something on that 5th visit that make your play experience a little different.
Several things scare me about this system:
- It seem like un needed back round boring stuff for the player that 90% wouldn't care about.
- Huge time sync for developers time for a boring feature.
- Huge recipe for disaster in bugs, rewards not showing up and player exp.
I have my own Perception..... Joppa is a strange guy, most wouldn't understand his thought process and his puzzle solving..... I can prove it too. The Perception system is a strange invention within it self.
That's a huge leap before experiencing it in game. I also don't think its something that will break the game for someone who does not want to take part. Like all MMOs, its rare for every player to take part in all areas of the game. For lore diggers, I think this will be much enjoyed.
Comments
I'll start by saying the way he is doing it is dumb but whatever,some people think it is the coolest idea since sliced cheese.
Perception is something we learn over time,the more we see and interact with the more we become more perceptive.The way he is doing the system is by trying to create sort of like definitive puzzles to solve.
On one hand it appears to be flat out zzzzzzzzzzzz boring,yet again some people would love it.
He goes into some serious detail explaining why he loves the system and it is tough to argue with any of it.However he is misrepresenting what perception should be and how it should work.What Joppa is doing besides creating a bunch of puzzles is utilizing Perception as a CONTENT idea.This would be similar to if we created SMELL content,or taste content.Nobody walks arounf the world looking for things to taste just to raise their taste ability.Nobody walks around purposely seeking out things to listen to so we can better identify what sounds relate to what objects or beings.
We improve our sense of sight,hearing,feel etc etc,we develop them NATURALLY over time,we never try to improve them via some content system.
IDk if i made sense describing why i don't like or not ,i could simplify it by just saying it is NOT a realistic idea the way he is representing perception.Yet as i stated many people the same way people love raiding or any other non realistic idea,they love "doing stuff".I am not and never will be on that fence,i want a mmorpg to play like a ROLE playing character,i want the world to support that character like a real world would.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
From what we have seen in streams dispositions are simply a title over a mobs head that everyone can see.
Also, that would go against the whole "being a keeper is optional" theory that VR has been repeating for so long (though I have disregarded that as false info from the beginning.)
Certain races have bonuses against dispositions, that is known.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It is because the perception system is supposed to be a system based on providing extra lore/ story lines to the player. That is where the usefulness is as defined by VR. They have stated that it wont give a player an advantage/disadvantage if they opt in or opt out of the keeper system.
Again, ^ that has been questioned by myself and others many times. I dont believe it will end up actually providing the player no advantage other than extra lore/story as has been stated.
"though there will be Dispositions only identifiable through the Perception system and rare, vision-altering Artifacts."
All we have been shown to this point is the first part of that quote that you didn't include (that I mentioned earlier) about prefixes to the npc names.
The entire quote reads:"These Dispositions will typically be portrayed by an adjective at the beginning of the NPC’s name, though there will be Dispositions only identifiable through the Perception system and rare, vision-altering Artifacts. "
My first thought is to be skeptical of what we are told by VR until we see it. They have told us a lot of things over the years that are not accurate. It is a learned response based on experience.
My second thought is one that I have repeated often but this is just another example to back it. VR needs to stop describing the perception system as optional. It isn't.
The only negative to becoming a keeper is having pop up dialogue windows on your screen when you don't want them (though I'm assuming we will be able to turn off the pop ups or be able to limit them to a text window in the ui). Your keepers tome should be something every character starts with.
You shouldn't have to opt in to becoming a keeper. Anyone who opts out will be gimping themselves (usually unintentionally because they don't know any better).
The whole perception system being optional seems like an excuse so that if it ends up being viewed poorly VR can go back and say it was always optional...when it never really was.
Also areas will be based on level. So they would not add something that requires Perception to a level that would not be reachable by most players. But maybe your 5th time in that dungeon you been trying to get that sword in, you will notice something on that 5th visit that make your play experience a little different.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
- It seem like un needed back round boring stuff for the player that 90% wouldn't care about.
- Huge time sync for developers time for a boring feature.
- Huge recipe for disaster in bugs, rewards not showing up and player exp.
I have my own Perception..... Joppa is a strange guy, most wouldn't understand his thought process and his puzzle solving..... I can prove it too. The Perception system is a strange invention within it self.