It really isn't and if you know it. You're only suggesting it is because it serves your purpose of discrediting this game like you try to do with most korean games..
That's your thing and your right but I know that you know with your "insider info" that PC gaming has struggled to find that monetization sweet spot to rival mobile. Hardcore P2W mobile like Marvel Strike Force made 100 million in one month yet you're saying an xp boost as the same thing. If Summoners War can make 1 BILLION in one year from selling items that straight up increase your POWER then why can't a PC game sell a slight xp boost for those without enough time to progress as fast as they'd like? Are XP scrolls in ESO P2W?
"Arguing what constitues P2W" for PC MMO's is one of the most important conversations we SHOULD be having right now and until it's figured out completely.
Just so you all the "whiners about all MMORPG" know, Lost Ark is revamping the gearing system. And also how funny it is for people to complain about every single game that is released. Majority of NA base just want f2p, free everything lol. Who's gonna keep the company going to create more content for you all if you are all entitled to free stuff?
If I were the devs, NA would be the last market to go into, as proven by so many games who did not want to go to NA or went to NA last
I am quite fortunate that I don't play these games to grind at the end although I am aware that is how they are meant to be played. I just enjoy the levelling of new builds so if the game has a nice levelling system I will enjoy it a lot.
It really isn't and if you know it. You're only suggesting it is because it serves your purpose of discrediting this game like you try to do with most korean games..
That's your thing and your right but I know that you know with your "insider info" that PC gaming has struggled to find that monetization sweet spot to rival mobile. Hardcore P2W mobile like Marvel Strike Force made 100 million in one month yet you're saying an xp boost as the same thing. If Summoners War can make 1 BILLION in one year from selling items that straight up increase your POWER then why can't a PC game sell a slight xp boost for those without enough time to progress as fast as they'd like? Are XP scrolls in ESO P2W?
"Arguing what constitues P2W" for PC MMO's is one of the most important conversations we SHOULD be having right now and until it's figured out completely.
I skimmed this thread. Are you saying Lost Ark has no P2W elements? Because it certainly does. Or at least did at launch. You could buy extra dungeon runs compared to those that didn't pay. which means on average that you'll find your upgrades faster.
It really isn't and if you know it. You're only suggesting it is because it serves your purpose of discrediting this game like you try to do with most korean games..
That's your thing and your right but I know that you know with your "insider info" that PC gaming has struggled to find that monetization sweet spot to rival mobile. Hardcore P2W mobile like Marvel Strike Force made 100 million in one month yet you're saying an xp boost as the same thing. If Summoners War can make 1 BILLION in one year from selling items that straight up increase your POWER then why can't a PC game sell a slight xp boost for those without enough time to progress as fast as they'd like? Are XP scrolls in ESO P2W?
"Arguing what constitues P2W" for PC MMO's is one of the most important conversations we SHOULD be having right now and until it's figured out completely.
I skimmed this thread. Are you saying Lost Ark has no P2W elements? Because it certainly does. Or at least did at launch. You could buy extra dungeon runs compared to those that didn't pay. which means on average that you'll find your upgrades faster.
Exactly.
But some people argue that advancing faster is not p2w.... this is the same argument BDO apologists use, if you can gear up faster than a non paying player.. its a clear P2W game
Lost ark is has clear P2W elements in the cash shop that allow a player to gain an advantage over a non paying player
People for some reason keep coming up with these double-speak terms like oh its "pay to advance", oh rng loot boxes are "surprise mechanics"... please stop this crap
Does Lost Ark have PvP? Does it matter if you get better gear faster if there is no PvP? Just asking because I am not competitive. Not trolling but a genuine query.
I think that in the future very few games are going to allow progress to better items without paying. Just the way games are being developed these days. Even the ones that say there is no P2W has some in some form or another.
There is too much money to be had catering to people who want to get on top for them to pass by without profiting. Reflection of the times we live in
It really isn't and if you know it. You're only suggesting it is because it serves your purpose of discrediting this game like you try to do with most korean games..
That's your thing and your right but I know that you know with your "insider info" that PC gaming has struggled to find that monetization sweet spot to rival mobile. Hardcore P2W mobile like Marvel Strike Force made 100 million in one month yet you're saying an xp boost as the same thing. If Summoners War can make 1 BILLION in one year from selling items that straight up increase your POWER then why can't a PC game sell a slight xp boost for those without enough time to progress as fast as they'd like? Are XP scrolls in ESO P2W?
"Arguing what constitues P2W" for PC MMO's is one of the most important conversations we SHOULD be having right now and until it's figured out completely.
I skimmed this thread. Are you saying Lost Ark has no P2W elements? Because it certainly does. Or at least did at launch. You could buy extra dungeon runs compared to those that didn't pay. which means on average that you'll find your upgrades faster.
Exactly.
But some people argue that advancing faster is not p2w.... this is the same argument BDO apologists use, if you can gear up faster than a non paying player.. its a clear P2W game
Lost ark is has clear P2W elements in the cash shop that allow a player to gain an advantage over a non paying player
People for some reason keep coming up with these double-speak terms like oh its "pay to advance", oh rng loot boxes are "surprise mechanics"... please stop this crap
Does Lost Ark have PvP? Does it matter if you get better gear faster if there is no PvP? Just asking because I am not competitive. Not trolling but a genuine query.
I think that in the future very few games are going to allow progress to better items without paying. Just the way games are being developed these days. Even the ones that say there is no P2W has some in some form or another.
There is too much money to be had catering to people who want to get on top for them to pass by without profiting. Reflection of the times we live in
yeah it has PVP and yes PVE only games have P2W as well. Nobody would play POE, outside of China, if you could buy better chances at gear and such. If WOW let you pay to run a time locked raid a second time each week for cash, that would be P2W.
Regardless of how you want to label it. Paying for a better chance at loot in a loot hunting game is not a cool thing to most in the West.
In WoW you can buy gold for real money and hire tanks for runs , that's a thing these days in WoW. So you''re indirectly paying real money to run dungeons.
In WoW you can buy gold for real money and hire tanks for runs , that's a thing these days in WoW. So you''re indirectly paying to run dungeons.
you can't roll for gear twice from a raid boss(of the same difficulty) in the same week. And that's not something sold directly from Blizzard. It's sold by players.
But hey if you are fine with whales advancing/progressing faster in games you play, go for it. Just don't ask why another korean game that fails to adjust to the market dies quickly.
In WoW you can buy gold for real money and hire tanks for runs , that's a thing these days in WoW. So you''re indirectly paying to run dungeons.
you can't roll for gear twice from a raid boss(of the same difficulty) in the same week. And that's not something sold directly from Blizzard. It's sold by players.
But hey if you are fine with whales advancing/progressing faster in games you play, go for it. Just don't ask why another korean game that fails to adjust to the market dies quickly.
I'm not okay with it. I am not going to stop playing any game because of it though.
It really isn't and if you know it. You're only suggesting it is because it serves your purpose of discrediting this game like you try to do with most korean games..
That's your thing and your right but I know that you know with your "insider info" that PC gaming has struggled to find that monetization sweet spot to rival mobile. Hardcore P2W mobile like Marvel Strike Force made 100 million in one month yet you're saying an xp boost as the same thing. If Summoners War can make 1 BILLION in one year from selling items that straight up increase your POWER then why can't a PC game sell a slight xp boost for those without enough time to progress as fast as they'd like? Are XP scrolls in ESO P2W?
"Arguing what constitues P2W" for PC MMO's is one of the most important conversations we SHOULD be having right now and until it's figured out completely.
He said that Lost Ark is definitely "pay to advance" - his own words
come on man
if arguing that pay to advance is not pay to win... that's the side you are going to take?
I am simply not willing to go there - when someone says that pay to advance is not pay to win - I say it's useless to argue with that person because they've already crossed the point where you can still reason with them.
YOU said pay to advance is P2W
"Also pay 2 advance is pay to win to most players."
which I can say in many cases is NOT IMO. If the guy who works two RL jobs pops xp scrolls to level up faster in ESO it IS NOT P2W. IF him doing that has little to no impact on the overall outcome of the game world. If a guy in BDO is spamming his Mastercard to boost one piece of gear if that act has little to no impact on the greater game it is NOT P2W IMO. P2W for ME is if one person and/or a small group of people can spend an X amount of money to gain an impactful advantage in the overall game world in any way over others then I consider that p2w. There also must be rewards involved not just chest thumping glory for me to consider it p2w.
That's my opinion though so lets talk about it further cause calling
everything "p2w" isn't doing anyone any favors it's actually screwing
us. If mobile games can sell $100 p2w packs without having to disguise it in any way but a PC gamer won't even touch a game because it has a cash shop then the PC game industry is dead already and everyone here better get used to playing games on their phones..
What also happened to the P2W law that used to be thrown around commonly on this site that was...
"If it doesn't have PVP it's not P2W" < this used to be etched in stone on the tablet carried by Moses around here but a few years down the line and it's all but forgotten.
I skimmed this thread. Are you saying Lost Ark has no P2W elements? Because it certainly does. Or at least did at launch. You could buy extra dungeon runs compared to those that didn't pay. which means on average that you'll find your upgrades faster.
If we want to label every game that has any kind of "advancement" for money then almost every MMO cept WoW is P2W. ESO has 10% exp boost for sub so that must be p2w. EQ2 monthly sub gives you store credit you can use to buy boost items so that must be p2w too...
Which is why I think slapping the p2w label on every game equally is the same in current times as calling someone a word that ends in "ist". It's broad and overlooks the details which IMO is what really matters and should be discussed further.
I'm not saying Lost Ark is anything at this point until I play the game after launch. If the guy who whaled for 10kUSD has a distinct advantage over others and/or tops leaderboards then I'll be right here with you screaming P2W! til the end of time.
I think things like this are complicated by a game being F2P. People argue that a F2P can only sell cosmetics period. That anything that imbalances the power structure cannot be purchased even if the only parameter is time.
I don't agree with this when it is pay to advance. Anyone playing a F2P and not spending a cent in this game they are playing should have no right to complain about another player accessing content more frequently by paying.
Some players play a game for 18 hours advancing daily at astonishing rates that a normal player cannot manage because they have real life commitments. If the player with the real life commitments wants to pay for an extra dungeon run in a F2P game I'm fine with that.
I skimmed this thread. Are you saying Lost Ark has no P2W elements? Because it certainly does. Or at least did at launch. You could buy extra dungeon runs compared to those that didn't pay. which means on average that you'll find your upgrades faster.
If we want to label every game that has any kind of "advancement" for money then almost every MMO cept WoW is P2W. ESO has 10% exp boost for sub so that must be p2w. EQ2 monthly sub gives you store credit you can use to buy boost items so that must be p2w too...
Which is why I think slapping the p2w label on every game equally is the same in current times as calling someone a word that ends in "ist". It's broad and overlooks the details which IMO is what really matters and should be discussed further.
I'm not saying Lost Ark is anything at this point until I play the game after launch. If the guy who whaled for 10kUSD has a distinct advantage over others and/or tops leaderboards then I'll be right here with you screaming P2W! til the end of time.
Lost ark will be irrelevant game once Amazon Games going to release it.... its been out for almost 3 years now and nothing yet for EU/US, great job amazon.
Lost ark will be irrelevant game once Amazon Games going to release it.... its been out for almost 3 years now and nothing yet for EU/US, great job amazon.
It's literally the number one game in Korean gaming cafes right now. Far from irrelevant, it made a comeback.
Comments
So hopefully it comes soon.
I skimmed this thread. Are you saying Lost Ark has no P2W elements? Because it certainly does. Or at least did at launch. You could buy extra dungeon runs compared to those that didn't pay. which means on average that you'll find your upgrades faster.
I think that in the future very few games are going to allow progress to better items without paying. Just the way games are being developed these days. Even the ones that say there is no P2W has some in some form or another.
There is too much money to be had catering to people who want to get on top for them to pass by without profiting. Reflection of the times we live in
I don't agree with this when it is pay to advance. Anyone playing a F2P and not spending a cent in this game they are playing should have no right to complain about another player accessing content more frequently by paying.
Some players play a game for 18 hours advancing daily at astonishing rates that a normal player cannot manage because they have real life commitments. If the player with the real life commitments wants to pay for an extra dungeon run in a F2P game I'm fine with that.
EXP isn't the end goal - gear is ...