Amazon cans Crucible

Forgrimm

So Amazon just announced that Crucible won't be coming back. The Crucible team is getting moved to New World and other "upcoming projects". That makes their games division 0 for 2, with Breakaway and Crucible getting axed before launch. Maybe the 3rd time will be a charm with New World?

Amathe

I can imagine a world where Amazon gives up and leaves the game industry.

DeadSpock

Amathe said:

I can imagine a world where Amazon gives up and leaves the game industry.

Give them time the way it's going Bezos will monopolize all and everything including games. The dude got bad comment from Time magazine and next day he bought it and owns it now. My personal believe is he might even be the reason of Covid-19 since that started Amazon went up by a lot.

Neanderthal

I haven't been paying close attention to all this.  Was Crucible a MMO?  Was it the one Smedley was working on?

The really depressing thing is that even with Amazon money to burn they can't come up with a decent MMO.  I have no interest at all in playing New World at the moment.  Maybe something will change my mind but I doubt it.

aslan132

Yea, the biggest problem, was that they tried to make 3 different games in 3 different genres at the same time, without having a firm grasp on how to make a game in the first place. New World is actually not terrible. Some liked it more before all the PVE stuff was added, some like it more now. But regardless, it is actually a halfway decent game, and looks to only get better from here. Add in now the team that was working on Crucible, and I foresee some PVP making its way back to the forefront. Amazon isn't out of the game yet, they just needed to be more focused.

Theocritus

DeadSpock said:

Amathe said:

I can imagine a world where Amazon gives up and leaves the game industry.

Give them time the way it's going Bezos will monopolize all and everything including games. The dude got bad comment from Time magazine and next day he bought it and owns it now. My personal believe is he might even be the reason of Covid-19 since that started Amazon went up by a lot.

This is what happens when we the consumer empower people. No one is forcing people to buy Amazon products, yet they do despite reading how Bezos makes over 30 billion a year now.

Albatroes

Remember, articles are your friend: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-10/amazon-ends-development-of-crucible-its-first-major-video-game

But yeah, this was honestly inevitable, especially with them "announcing that they are working on a new IP" or whatever, when they cancelled 1 (now 2) and New World has been changed like 2-3 times completely since Alpha. Even now its still pretty rough with a huge lack of direction. I feel bad for people defending New World even in its current state. I want the studio to succeed, sure, but they don't have the creative or even want to provide something creative, just something that will boost Twitch.

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if New World just turned into a Lord of the Rings game or Harry Potter game by next year with all the flip flopping they've been doing.

cameltosis

Not a huge surprise given the bad first launch, it's very hard to come back from that even if you have a ton of money.

Amazon are also trying to go from nothing to a large, AAA studio in one big leap. That's incredibly difficult and ambitious so it's no surprise that they've had a lot of problems.

What confuses me most is their choice of games. A 4v4 "brawler" that sounded like a cross between rocket league and mobas? Can't imagine there is much of a market for that, or much experience to draw upon. A team/hero shooter? That's one of the most competitive genres out there, very hard to break into that and make a mark. A PvP sandbox mmo survival/rpg? History ain't exactly on their side on that one.

I don't really have any doubts in the technical abilities of Amazon Studios, they've hired enough good implementation people to build their games. But design? Nothing I've seen from Amazon makes me think they've got a good design team and if they don't sort that shit out, they'll keep failing.

Aeander

This game flopped so hard, so fast it made Lawbreakers look like an Overwatch killer.

bcbully

What’s impressive is they are not afraid to cut their losses, quickly.

BruceYee

When I think about how much $$$ they've spent on all their games so far... it makes me wonder if they would've been better off just hiring student graduates at the start, giving them all the tools needed(a few experienced senior developers) to work on ideas they had and see if anything comes of it. Probably would've been hundreds of millions cheaper than the shitshow of the past 4 years.

Amaranthar

cameltosis said:

Not a huge surprise given the bad first launch, it's very hard to come back from that even if you have a ton of money.

Amazon are also trying to go from nothing to a large, AAA studio in one big leap. That's incredibly difficult and ambitious so it's no surprise that they've had a lot of problems.

What confuses me most is their choice of games. A 4v4 "brawler" that sounded like a cross between rocket league and mobas? Can't imagine there is much of a market for that, or much experience to draw upon. A team/hero shooter? That's one of the most competitive genres out there, very hard to break into that and make a mark. A PvP sandbox mmo survival/rpg? History ain't exactly on their side on that one.

I don't really have any doubts in the technical abilities of Amazon Studios, they've hired enough good implementation people to build their games. But design? Nothing I've seen from Amazon makes me think they've got a good design team and if they don't sort that shit out, they'll keep failing.

How are they going to hire designers with a winning plan when the guys doing the hiring don't have a clue? 

BruceYee

Amaranthar said:

How are they going to hire designers with a winning plan when they guys doing the hiring don't have a clue? 

And only hire those who pose no threat to their job security..

So people with even less of "a clue".

Time to bring in the Bobs..

ChildoftheShadows

Even if they never complete a game I hope they continue to improve Lumberyard.

Amaranthar

BruceYee said:

Amaranthar said:

How are they going to hire designers with a winning plan when they guys doing the hiring don't have a clue? 

And only hire those who pose no threat to their job security..

So people with even less of "a clue".

Time to bring in the Bobs..

What's really sad is that there are certainly people who are capable of moving MMORPGs into innovative designs, but their ideas don't fit into the current design, so they don't see the light of day. 
Furthermore, their ideas aren't recognized by the stuck-on-rote leadership. 
How do you find leadership to unstick something under those conditions? 

Amaranthar

tzervo said:

Amaranthar said:

What's really sad is that there are certainly people who are capable of moving MMORPGs into innovative designs, but their ideas don't fit into the current design, so they don't see the light of day. 
Furthermore, their ideas aren't recognized by the stuck-on-rote leadership. 
How do you find leadership to unstick something under those conditions? 

Those innovative ideas were given ample chances, both through kickstarted projects (of which few were successful, i.e. E:D, Albion, P:G) or smaller studios (of which again few were successful but remained niche, i.e. Foxhole, One Hour One Life). So:

1) Either players do not really want innovation that much and are estranged when they see something too different from what they are familiar with.

2) Or innovation is not as easy to distill into a coherent design and a successful product as people here like to make it seem.

3) Or both.

You cannot expect leadership to ignore this when they make business decisions.

Well, if you're right then MMORPG will remain stuck where they are. 

Wizardry

Innovation is tough because most ideas have already been fleshed out.
However the DEPTH of the system designs is not even close to where it needs to be.

Somehow we went from player to player combos,team work in to somersaults ...sigh.

We can build stuff in survival games but mmorpg's don't want to go there...sigh

Survival games lack content ...sigh

NPC Ai is often just awful from Tom Clancy to Destiny to Wow pretty much every game,VERY lazy scripting.

When is the last time you seen an ECO system in a game world>>>>never?

When is the last time you had world interaction>>>never?I mean way way back in Half Life I could pick up stuff and throw it ,maybe a box or a paint can or a saw blade etc etc.

When is the last time you found a secret cave that opened up or had hidden secrets to open the cave instead of just an opening or an instance?

Crafting:Have we improved crafting since the days of EQ2?Pretty sad really.

MOST games i am turned off in the first two minutes.I see a lame ass character customization screen or i do literally nothing and I see CONGRATULATIONS you are level 2 !!!.

Somewhere out there has to be a studio that has a clue,has money,has a team.

Wizardry

Amazon makes money by ripping businesses off by doing nothing more than being a store front.
So some business absorbs ALL the risk,time investment and Amazon just takes 30% lmao.

So Amazon is good at business,they are NOT good at product design ,game design or really anything other than making money off OTHER people's work.

kitarad

I suppose this is an excellent example of too many cooks spoiling the broth.

Amaranthar

tzervo said:

Amaranthar said:

Well, if you're right then MMORPG will remain stuck where they are. 

I don't think so. For example BDO showed that an MMORPG can be largely successful post-WOW without following the themepark recipe strictly. I believe there is potential for innovation (big or in smaller increments). I just do not believe it is as easy/simple or as desirable as people here present it to be.

It's not easy, but not impossible either.
It does take leadership that has something extra going on upstairs, an understanding of fitting the puzzles together. 
But I'm sure there are people like that in this industry who have been unable to showcase their skills in this current environment of "cloned general design." 

The innovation I'm talking about is centered around weaving the social structure together without forcing it, but making it desirable to players. 
That requires lower power gaps, and the excitement of that needs to be replaced with other things. Cool things. Very cool things. 

ChildoftheShadows

Wizardry said:

Amazon makes money by ripping businesses off by doing nothing more than being a store front.
So some business absorbs ALL the risk,time investment and Amazon just takes 30% lmao.

So Amazon is good at business,they are NOT good at product design ,game design or really anything other than making money off OTHER people's work.

Amazon makes money through AWS, not the store.

Babuinix

DeadSpock said:

Give them time the way it's going Bezos will monopolize all and everything including games. The dude got bad comment from Time magazine and next day he bought it and owns it now. My personal believe is he might even be the reason of Covid-19 since that started Amazon went up by a lot.

Benioff bought Time Magazine, Bezzos bought Washington Post, and no it wasn't because because of a bad comment lol

As for Crucible it's a pity it didn't work but it's a common ocurrence in the industry no matter how much money is available, projects get shafted all the time when they fail to find their "mojo". 

Amazon cut their losses and wisely reinforced NewWorld dev force as it's their strongest bet because while they already found their "mojo", they now need a way to keep it when the honeymoon is over.

TwistedSister77

I will make a seperate post on this, but having worked on a big strategic and profit center line for Bezos and his leadership...

He friggin hates underperforming parts of his org.  He also hates bad PR.  

Nobody at Amazon Studios should be feeling safe right now.  

mgilbrtsn

Theocritus said:

DeadSpock said:

Amathe said:

I can imagine a world where Amazon gives up and leaves the game industry.

Give them time the way it's going Bezos will monopolize all and everything including games. The dude got bad comment from Time magazine and next day he bought it and owns it now. My personal believe is he might even be the reason of Covid-19 since that started Amazon went up by a lot.

This is what happens when we the consumer empower people. No one is forcing people to buy Amazon products, yet they do despite reading how Bezos makes over 30 billion a year now.

I don't care how much Bezos makes.  It doesn't affect my income.  That's discussion is for another day.  What I want to say is that I LOVE Amazon!!  I'm gonna ask that I get my own amazon drone assigned to me... I order enough from them, that I should have that little perk