What is your innovative new mechanic you would like to see in MMO's?

Devon

I suspect many have ideas they never see implemented, but would love to offer and perhaps hope to see someday in their games.

The expectation or idea doesnt have to remake the wheel, but it could change the quality of interaction and meaning to the player. I always felt the basis of group mechanics, Raids, Team built only instances, fell short of making them meaningful beyond the standard of the traits to the classes. If you could have specializations outside of the main skills that didnt tax your core abilities but had meaning to a group that would greatly enhance meaningful interaction with others. IE, you make traps in dungeons affect a party. You make traps that different classes have to identify randomly, but as well, affect all members if they are not disarmed. Or you make puzzles of the same quality, if that skill set is along in a group, suddenly you have a path change, or a gear drop in loot. The point is extending things with flavors to all, without it being the fail out of grouping, or grouping activities.

Im rather outspoken about Raids and so fourth, mostly due to the difficulty of having something to get something, but every dungeon or raid is a set of standards that simply equates to cash or needed gear for the next needed gear, and criticism from player to player is based on this reality. If you removed the floor of only One type of build is viable, and just rinse repeat, you the game developer are taking the easy way out, and keeping the same problems for the player base.

One of the points is "template" gear and or builds. If you had things that stratify difficulty of individually gained said items with those alongside the potential build of a Raid =x item for X build, suddenly its just a difference in what others do to take advantage of who is with them. You can layer that multiple times, across all classes, and no one feels redundant or out of place. Individuality and not cookie cutter templates of which there are few in measurable strength, brings enjoyment to all.

Anyway.. I have far too many ideas for development than I could list here as I am sure all of you have too. I would love to hear some of them.

If nothing else.. perhaps someday someone WILL bring your idea to gameplay.

Thanks in advance if you participate.

LynxJSA

Something I'd like to see in MMOs with open world player owned structures is the arrival of NPCs when you build a town.

The safer/better your town is, the more NPCs come to your shop/tavern/mall/town/etc. Those NPCs contribute to the returns (ex: gold, resources, rep) the venue generates for the owners. Players *can* rob and kill NPCS, but that would result is less NPCs coming the the town over time as the NPC pop avoid the crime-riddled town. As crime against NPCs goes down (they don't care if "you people" kill each other) the NPC population starts to rise.  

Devon

LynxJSA said:

Something I'd like to see in MMOs with open world player owned structures is the arrival of NPCs when you build a town.

The safer/better your town is, the more NPCs come to your shop/tavern/mall/town/etc. Those NPCs contribute to the returns (ex: gold, resources, rep) the venue generates for the owners. Players *can* rob and kill NPCS, but that would result is less NPCs coming the the town over time as the NPC pop avoid the crime-riddled town. As crime against NPCs goes down (they don't care if "you people" kill each other) the NPC population starts to rise.  

Very good. You could include policing said NPC murders or sniping to stop crime syndicates cropping up as well. But if you just left that alone, It would be interesting to see the NPC reaction without players rebalancing the PKing. It would require you to stay abreast of current situations when you went to buy or sell, or at least give a meaningful reason other than an individuals arbitrary "tax collection" hikes. It would also heighten PK distinction in who to hit and when for the best returns.. without killing the golden goose.

Wizardry

I think everyone wants to see more done with npc's.It does add a lot of problems adding all that scripted AI but it is most certainly still doable.We don't need nonsense like Ray tracing,we don't need any of those gimmicks that try and sell us stuff we just need better games.

An idea I cannot believe has never been done in any mmorpg and should be in every mmorpg is an ECO system.Atlas sort of has one but can be done further.So basically every creature SHOULD be living just as we do,so they would have a diet either eating plant life or other creatures.

How many mmorpg have biomes...none?How many mmorpg's have pets+breeding..none?

So you can see and the list actually goes much deeper,mmorpg's have been designed like crap.This is all I want is a much better mmorpg.
So give me Atlas+FFXI+Minecraft+tweaks/additions.

Within Atlas I have  what I really want,the ability to run my own server and change the game settings.This for me is huge because imo most game devs don't have a clue how to setup a game and/or they set up the game in a way to support a cash shop or grind to keep you paying.

Scot

In many ways today it is more about what they leave out than what they put in. Leaving out F2P, loot boxes, new classes which you need to have, P2W and soon would be rather innovative.

But one thing that could to create new forms of PvE and PvP combat would be to adopt DOS physical and magical armours, with the ability to alter terrain surfaces and make them wet, icy etc. That would open up whole new ways of tactical thinking in MMOS.

Devon

Wizardry said:

I think everyone wants to see more done with npc's.It does add a lot of problems adding all that scripted AI but it is most certainly still doable.We don't need nonsense like Ray tracing,we don't need any of those gimmicks that try and sell us stuff we just need better games.

An idea I cannot believe has never been done in any mmorpg and should be in every mmorpg is an ECO system.Atlas sort of has one but can be done further.So basically every creature SHOULD be living just as we do,so they would have a diet either eating plant life or other creatures.

How many mmorpg have biomes...none?How many mmorpg's have pets+breeding..none?

So you can see and the list actually goes much deeper,mmorpg's have been designed like crap.This is all I want is a much better mmorpg.
So give me Atlas+FFXI+Minecraft+tweaks/additions.

Within Atlas I have  what I really want,the ability to run my own server and change the game settings.This for me is huge because imo most game devs don't have a clue how to setup a game and/or they set up the game in a way to support a cash shop or grind to keep you paying.

I agree. I recall breeding in some game being attempted but it didnt get the full support to develop. Tamers really wanted it in Ultima Online. Seems a natural extension of the Pokemon?( the little pet you raised..keychain? never did it myself obviously, but hugely successful as I recall) craze, getting long trees of pet chains to get qualities you want for your character. You could take quick paths with direct well known pet qualities at harder to obtain or skill ability to gain, or.. long chain paths with a decent percentile in quality above the short path. From turtle to Tarasque hide qualities on a pet sort of thing, perhaps more lightning or fire resistance or whatever individualized along the path of breeding.

I recall something of the sort as well in Ultima with plant breeding, but it widely ended up just plant deco items, with a couple unique useful items. Again, could have gone a lot further. It would be interesting to see biomes progression much like land&lore attuning that Ashes has shown. More farming or mining or whatever from a culture and then the tapping out.. or.. after learning that, how to influence things into a projected growth scale. Even bringing canals inland.. or.. landbridging islands and increasing certain elemental changes.

Good stuff for thought.

Devon

Scot said:

In many ways today it is more about what they leave out than what they put in. Leaving out F2P, loot boxes, new classes which you need to have, P2W and soon would be rather innovative.

But one thing that could to create new forms of PvE and PvP combat would be to adopt DOS physical and magical armours, with the ability to alter terrain surfaces and make them wet, icy etc. That would open up whole new ways of tactical thinking in MMOS.

Yes, that would be nice on both sides. Especially thinking about sliding or tumbling physics, hill tops, with wind slows, and ice slips, and falling boulders or tree trunks with spikes and wheels on them burning and rolling towards you on the only given path...

I think I would call that Mayhem Mechanics. You could give it over to subclass abilities, like Alchemy or Siege Building. Cloudkill would become barrels of whatever lofted into an area... or the usual big burning tar pots...  I liked that stuff in GW2 WvW, skilling up Trebuchet shot types.  But in rethinking your terrain all the time in smaller group situations.. you could get a lot of farming done that way couldnt you.. Round em.. lead em to the big whatever, lower your gear damage and increase productivity.  Maybe feed a flock of carrion birds to train later too.

*Or Perhaps entice a dragon to come down and dine?

Devon

I guess the thing most want is something along the lines of AI behavior depths within the game world.

I suppose you could give them a sort of Maslows Hierarchy of needs to wants. Basic animal intelligences, up to higher tiered cultural drivers to reaction or activities. Perhaps a bit more fear involved as well.. your goblin number 12 and you see `1-9 get slaughtered, you retreat or.. try to turn into a mad suicidal bomber..

It would be fun to see those sorts of things. I just as well like "Get it off me!" moments with sticky grenades.. runs right over the nearest mob.. boom.  Things like that stick with you, we definitely need to see more AI improvements.

Like that earlier example of a dragon that comes down for an easy meal. Perhaps it would be more amenable to being tamed. Perhaps it will get a full belly, and have no interest in chasing the caravan that smells full of gold and gems.... Perhaps it will get lazy, and make more babies.. or Get angry when it gets hungry that there arent easy meals to be had for its babies..

*shrug* Individual tailoring of good development teams can shine in such decisions or branches of behavior in their games mechanics.

I may be a dreamer, but Im not the only one.

Devon

remsleep said:

Id love to be able to build my own rng cash shop where devs have to pay me.

Flip the script on them, see how they like it. 

Innovative enough?

I think I saw quite a lot of that in Second Life. LOL.

Ungood

Devon said:

I suspect many have ideas they never see implemented, but would love to offer and perhaps hope to see someday in their games.

The expectation or idea doesnt have to remake the wheel, but it could change the quality of interaction and meaning to the player. I always felt the basis of group mechanics, Raids, Team built only instances, fell short of making them meaningful beyond the standard of the traits to the classes. If you could have specializations outside of the main skills that didnt tax your core abilities but had meaning to a group that would greatly enhance meaningful interaction with others. IE, you make traps in dungeons affect a party. You make traps that different classes have to identify randomly, but as well, affect all members if they are not disarmed. Or you make puzzles of the same quality, if that skill set is along in a group, suddenly you have a path change, or a gear drop in loot. The point is extending things with flavors to all, without it being the fail out of grouping, or grouping activities.

Im rather outspoken about Raids and so fourth, mostly due to the difficulty of having something to get something, but every dungeon or raid is a set of standards that simply equates to cash or needed gear for the next needed gear, and criticism from player to player is based on this reality. If you removed the floor of only One type of build is viable, and just rinse repeat, you the game developer are taking the easy way out, and keeping the same problems for the player base.

One of the points is "template" gear and or builds. If you had things that stratify difficulty of individually gained said items with those alongside the potential build of a Raid =x item for X build, suddenly its just a difference in what others do to take advantage of who is with them. You can layer that multiple times, across all classes, and no one feels redundant or out of place. Individuality and not cookie cutter templates of which there are few in measurable strength, brings enjoyment to all.

Anyway.. I have far too many ideas for development than I could list here as I am sure all of you have too. I would love to hear some of them.

If nothing else.. perhaps someday someone WILL bring your idea to gameplay.

Thanks in advance if you participate.

You should try Dungeons and Dragons Online.

cheyane

The pet was the Tamagotchi, was this the one you meant?




I was quite bad at keeping it alive.

What I want to see as someone already mentioned is better AI. Really good AI.

Devon

Ok in response to the "I should play D&D Online", I gotta say... I played D&D during the eighties, DM'd a few years in college, and honestly.. what they did for the online game just makes me sad.  In all honesty, I disliked Everquest overall for an individual player, but sincerely they did a better job of D&D, than the actual named game did.

So no but thanks. And I even went to re review what they are doing now, and that is no open game like D&D ever was. So few classes, so few developments for the story or meaningful input or place in the character, I would rather replay Ultima Online without storyline than play what they call Neverwinter or D&D, which by what I can see... are clones of each other.

 I ran into the same disappointment with the Conan Theme game. *shrug*

I mean they didnt take Full Potential from the namesake and put that into the game, and they should have. They took a name, and slapped it onto the usual. Failing to even do it as well as Everquest... which is saying something. 

And I cant overstate how much I despised EQ, for the same nonsense as all games like them...  MASSIVE GAME AND DEPTH... itty bitty storage space, insane priced rides because its easier to kill a dragon with 80 people than get a horse to listen to you..., and the usual "limiters" to keep "meaningful" progress and distance between the newbs and 12 expansion Max level Guild gods... *facepalm*

I have no interest in such. Sorry.

Ungood

Devon said:

Ok in response to the "I should play D&D Online", I gotta say... I played D&D during the eighties, DM'd a few years in college, and honestly.. what they did for the online game just makes me sad.  In all honesty, I disliked Everquest overall for an individual player, but sincerely they did a better job of D&D, than the actual named game did.

So no but thanks. And I even went to re review what they are doing now, and that is no open game like D&D ever was. So few classes, so few developments for the story or meaningful input or place in the character, I would rather replay Ultima Online without storyline than play what they call Neverwinter or D&D, which by what I can see... are clones of each other.

 I ran into the same disappointment with the Conan Theme game. *shrug*

I mean they didnt take Full Potential from the namesake and put that into the game, and they should have. They took a name, and slapped it onto the usual. Failing to even do it as well as Everquest... which is saying something. 

And I cant overstate how much I despised EQ, for the same nonsense as all games like them...  MASSIVE GAME AND DEPTH... itty bitty storage space, insane priced rides because its easier to kill a dragon with 80 people than get a horse to listen to you..., and the usual "limiters" to keep "meaningful" progress and distance between the newbs and 12 expansion Max level Guild gods... *facepalm*

I have no interest in such. Sorry.

Ok, first off.

Neverwinter, and DDO, have absolutely nothing in common. The are very, vastly different games. If that was what you were building off, you have been sorely misinformed.

Secondly, D&D was never an "Open World" thing. But you know, Now maybe you had a different experience going on, but, every Pen and Paper D&D session I was in, was in fact an very instance situation. Now, to be fair, maybe you somehow had a bunch of strangers jump into your living room, kill the mobs, steal the loot, eat all your pizza and cheetos, chug the Mountain Dew, and then run off out the door to do it to the next groups campaign, and thus lived that Open World setting in your D&D campaigns, but I am going to bet that never happened, and that all your gaming group meetings were in fact, limited to the group, and only the group, to play them.

So, why anyone would think that AD&D was an Open World game, is beyond me, it was quite literally the real world equal to an Instance based dungeon crawl.

Third: Content.

Now, DDO sells content, like adventure packs and such, which Oh, right, is exactly what AD&D did by selling adventure modules, adventures, miniatures, special dice, and all the other pretties that come with table top gaming.

Again, I could be wrong, perhaps you magically got everything handed to you when you bought your first Players Handbook, to never ever again buy a single module, compendium, book, supplement, miniature, or dice, ever again.

Because, well, that again was not my experience, and over the years I had collected a full wall of shelves full of various books, modules, maps, compendiums, guides, dice, miniatures, and various other supplements, as well as a monthly publican (Called: Dungeon), and Several box sets, as well as other campaign stuff that was relatable.

So, as far as my history with the game AD&D, went, I see, DDO, made by Turbine/SSG as spot on with what the Original game by TSR provided, just in an digital sense. 

Neverwinter, made by Perfect World, on the other hand, was and is soggy dog shit. 

Sovrath

Devon said:

I would rather replay Ultima Online without storyline than play what they call Neverwinter or D&D, which by what I can see... are clones of each other.

Are you sure you check out the correct game?

neverwinter is one mmorpg, Dungeons and Dragons Online is the other and they are by no means clones of each other by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not saying they are good or bad, but they are not remotely related in any way other than "dungeons and dragons."

Groqstrong

An idea I've always tossed around in my head would be if two mmorpg players consent they can meld into 1 more powerful character for a short time period to combat an objective.  I forget the names of the unit but it would similar to the SC2 Protoss units melding together. 

LynxJSA

Wizardry said:

How many mmorpg's have pets+breeding..none?

- Mortal Online
- Warframe 
- Black Desert Online
- Project Gorgon
- SamuTale 
- The Repopulation
- Ultima Online Chicken Lizard Breeding

Devon

Ungood said:

Devon said:

Ok in response to the "I should play D&D Online", I gotta say... I played D&D during the eighties, DM'd a few years in college, and honestly.. what they did for the online game just makes me sad.  In all honesty, I disliked Everquest overall for an individual player, but sincerely they did a better job of D&D, than the actual named game did.

So no but thanks. And I even went to re review what they are doing now, and that is no open game like D&D ever was. So few classes, so few developments for the story or meaningful input or place in the character, I would rather replay Ultima Online without storyline than play what they call Neverwinter or D&D, which by what I can see... are clones of each other.

 I ran into the same disappointment with the Conan Theme game. *shrug*

I mean they didnt take Full Potential from the namesake and put that into the game, and they should have. They took a name, and slapped it onto the usual. Failing to even do it as well as Everquest... which is saying something. 

And I cant overstate how much I despised EQ, for the same nonsense as all games like them...  MASSIVE GAME AND DEPTH... itty bitty storage space, insane priced rides because its easier to kill a dragon with 80 people than get a horse to listen to you..., and the usual "limiters" to keep "meaningful" progress and distance between the newbs and 12 expansion Max level Guild gods... *facepalm*

I have no interest in such. Sorry.

Ok, first off.

Neverwinter, and DDO, have absolutely nothing in common. The are very, vastly different games. If that was what you were building off, you have been sorely misinformed.

Secondly, D&D was never an "Open World" thing. But you know, Now maybe you had a different experience going on, but, every Pen and Paper D&D session I was in, was in fact an very instance situation. Now, to be fair, maybe you somehow had a bunch of strangers jump into your living room, kill the mobs, steal the loot, eat all your pizza and cheetos, chug the Mountain Dew, and then run off out the door to do it to the next groups campaign, and thus lived that Open World setting in your D&D campaigns, but I am going to bet that never happened, and that all your gaming group meetings were in fact, limited to the group, and only the group, to play them.

So, why anyone would think that AD&D was an Open World game, is beyond me, it was quite literally the real world equal to an Instance based dungeon crawl.

Third: Content.

Now, DDO sells content, like adventure packs and such, which Oh, right, is exactly what AD&D did by selling adventure modules, adventures, miniatures, special dice, and all the other pretties that come with table top gaming.

Again, I could be wrong, perhaps you magically got everything handed to you when you bought your first Players Handbook, to never ever again buy a single module, compendium, book, supplement, miniature, or dice, ever again.

Because, well, that again was not my experience, and over the years I had collected a full wall of shelves full of various books, modules, maps, compendiums, guides, dice, miniatures, and various other supplements, as well as a monthly publican (Called: Dungeon), and Several box sets, as well as other campaign stuff that was relatable.

So, as far as my history with the game AD&D, went, I see, DDO, made by Turbine/SSG as spot on with what the Original game by TSR provided, just in an digital sense. 

Neverwinter, made by Perfect World, on the other hand, was and is soggy dog shit. 

LOL.

Ok. You dragged me into it. Heaven forbid I give a little detail about myself, OFF the intended track of information, but hijacking happens. As opinions will vary, ahem, and egos will bloat, I will volley.

If you want to get definition tense, I will concede that they are not the same, I will even further concede that they have their tiny differences in playstyle. But if you dont see the issues of how close they are the same? I cant help. You have a nice collection, does that help? I have it all in digital, scanned or otherwise (only so much room in a home, and I cant stand to see my precious love dusting that much anymore). I didnt play them all either. I started with the first box set from a box that fit in your palm with rough brown cardboard, back in the seventies as a kid. I also wrote more than I can list, and published quite a few as well of those pre "Mt. Dew, hell even pre "Classic or New Coke", periods in the world. I went to far too many conventions, back when we shared them with comic-cons and guys doing the trekkie bits a few months before Ren Fair came around.

That you dont feel D&D is or was an Open World... I think its a level of attention to detail. A great game doesnt come from simply what you are shown(Instanced). It comes from why and how it will be affected by your players. They are the choices that bring about real stories. I wrote books based on them, even based off game audio recordings. And no, you dont have the abilities to engage or involve yourself fully or manage the wildest figment of the playstyle palette of D&D imagination to most MMO games.

So Im glad you clarified my statements to your own satisfaction, it helps us understand each other. But jabs and pokes are for kids. And imagination and dreams are not meant to be welcome mats for someone to clean their boots on. I get it, you been out there too, Im kin, I grokk.

I happen to love Turbines great work, Asherons Call, and we knew and loved each other on the writing field as well. That is more D&D to me too. You can pull out the same feelings you have over that generalization too if you like, I get it. IT doesnt make one better or lesser, seriously, I love that you love D&D that much and that even to those two games you have passion! That is awesome. Totally enjoy that. I enjoyed parts of some of the worst and best and many of the mediocre games off and online all the same. But for me, differences come in variety, ability, conception and moving direction based on player interaction and how deep you can give them those interactions and combinations of things to do to make truly unique approaches. The future will get back to depths of greater mechanics to allow and encourage what I envision, Im certain of it. I may not be here to see it, but.. I can be grouchy and hope. Right?

Cmon, what differences did you want recently that you want someone building for others to find and possibly put in, be specific. That was the point of this thread. A lot of hopes and dreams and possible from impossible at present means.

I still think the ducking back and fourth of mobs in Halo with obvious taunting and their little ones running  away with sticky grenades on them yelling "Get it off me" is a lost direction of game interaction that should be pursued with ai. I also think bottles of lamp oil are one of the best items in a game, along with rope, if used properly.

Back to my coffee. Cheers.

Scot

cheyane said:

The pet was the Tamagotchi, was this the one you meant?




I was quite bad at keeping it alive.

What I want to see as someone already mentioned is better AI. Really good AI.

Cheynane was a bad mum, it is all coming out now.

bcbully

I’d like to see a chat algorithm that when someone on a PvE server or in a safe zone say some real slick, or aggressive shit, they automatically turn red.

That would be dope

LynxJSA

bcbully said:

I’d like to see a chat algorithm that when someone on a PvE server or in a safe zone say some real slick, or aggressive shit, they automatically turn red.

That would be dope

"[censored] duel me, u [censored] [censored]" 
*PVP flag enables*
"Wait... nononoNO!NO!NO!" 

Ungood

Devon said:

Ungood said:

Devon said:

Ok in response to the "I should play D&D Online", I gotta say... I played D&D during the eighties, DM'd a few years in college, and honestly.. what they did for the online game just makes me sad.  In all honesty, I disliked Everquest overall for an individual player, but sincerely they did a better job of D&D, than the actual named game did.

So no but thanks. And I even went to re review what they are doing now, and that is no open game like D&D ever was. So few classes, so few developments for the story or meaningful input or place in the character, I would rather replay Ultima Online without storyline than play what they call Neverwinter or D&D, which by what I can see... are clones of each other.

 I ran into the same disappointment with the Conan Theme game. *shrug*

I mean they didnt take Full Potential from the namesake and put that into the game, and they should have. They took a name, and slapped it onto the usual. Failing to even do it as well as Everquest... which is saying something. 

And I cant overstate how much I despised EQ, for the same nonsense as all games like them...  MASSIVE GAME AND DEPTH... itty bitty storage space, insane priced rides because its easier to kill a dragon with 80 people than get a horse to listen to you..., and the usual "limiters" to keep "meaningful" progress and distance between the newbs and 12 expansion Max level Guild gods... *facepalm*

I have no interest in such. Sorry.

Ok, first off.

Neverwinter, and DDO, have absolutely nothing in common. The are very, vastly different games. If that was what you were building off, you have been sorely misinformed.

Secondly, D&D was never an "Open World" thing. But you know, Now maybe you had a different experience going on, but, every Pen and Paper D&D session I was in, was in fact an very instance situation. Now, to be fair, maybe you somehow had a bunch of strangers jump into your living room, kill the mobs, steal the loot, eat all your pizza and cheetos, chug the Mountain Dew, and then run off out the door to do it to the next groups campaign, and thus lived that Open World setting in your D&D campaigns, but I am going to bet that never happened, and that all your gaming group meetings were in fact, limited to the group, and only the group, to play them.

So, why anyone would think that AD&D was an Open World game, is beyond me, it was quite literally the real world equal to an Instance based dungeon crawl.

Third: Content.

Now, DDO sells content, like adventure packs and such, which Oh, right, is exactly what AD&D did by selling adventure modules, adventures, miniatures, special dice, and all the other pretties that come with table top gaming.

Again, I could be wrong, perhaps you magically got everything handed to you when you bought your first Players Handbook, to never ever again buy a single module, compendium, book, supplement, miniature, or dice, ever again.

Because, well, that again was not my experience, and over the years I had collected a full wall of shelves full of various books, modules, maps, compendiums, guides, dice, miniatures, and various other supplements, as well as a monthly publican (Called: Dungeon), and Several box sets, as well as other campaign stuff that was relatable.

So, as far as my history with the game AD&D, went, I see, DDO, made by Turbine/SSG as spot on with what the Original game by TSR provided, just in an digital sense. 

Neverwinter, made by Perfect World, on the other hand, was and is soggy dog shit. 

LOL.

Ok. You dragged me into it. Heaven forbid I give a little detail about myself, OFF the intended track of information, but hijacking happens. As opinions will vary, ahem, and egos will bloat, I will volley.

If you want to get definition tense, I will concede that they are not the same, I will even further concede that they have their tiny differences in playstyle. But if you dont see the issues of how close they are the same?

I played both DDO (Turbine/SSG) and Neverwinter (Perfect World), and they are not even remotely close to being the same as far as gameplay goes, in fact the only thing they have in common is you use WASD to move, and that is about it.

I mean just from a basic design standpoint, Neverwinter was based on 5e, and DDO was based on 3.x. So right from the foundation they were not meant to be similar games.

Then you have all the ridiculous grinder MMO elements in Neverwinter that do not exist in DDO. Like Gear Locked Classes, how can you even say they are similar when they don't even have how they handle gear remotely in common.

Just to grasp that, because you obviously have not played these games, and I would wager you played Neverwinter, not DDO.

So, you might recall in Neverwinter if you played a Dwarven Fighter, you used a Sword and Shield, and had Heavy Armor. You no doubt remember that you could only use a sword, you could not use an Axe for example (Very TERA like game style if you ask me). If you wanted an Axe as a dwarf, the best you could so was apply a skin that looked like an axe, but it was still classified as a sword. 

That sounds stupid to me. Because see in DDO, if my Fighter wanted to use an Axe, or a Sword, or a Dagger, or a Club, or a Great Sword, they could. In fact they could use every weapon in the game, which was not even remotely similar to Neverwinter.

And that was just one of the easily noticeable differences that anyone who actually played both games for more than 10 min would know.

Now, If you didn't know massive game differences like being able to change your weapons vs being weapon locked based on class that existed right from the start, between the two, then you never actually played them both. Simple as that.

If you want to speak from ignorance that is upon you, I can't help you there.

Devon said:
 You have a nice collection, does that help? I have it all in digital, scanned or otherwise (only so much room in a home, and I cant stand to see my precious love dusting that much anymore). I didnt play them all either. I started with the first box set from a box that fit in your palm with rough brown cardboard, back in the seventies as a kid. I also wrote more than I can list, and published quite a few as well of those pre "Mt. Dew, hell even pre "Classic or New Coke", periods in the world. I went to far too many conventions, back when we shared them with comic-cons and guys doing the trekkie bits a few months before Ren Fair came around.

Lost everything to a flood roughly 20ish years ago.

Ungood

LynxJSA said:

Wizardry said:

How many mmorpg's have pets+breeding..none?

- Mortal Online
- Warframe 
- Black Desert Online
- Project Gorgon
- SamuTale 
- The Repopulation
- Ultima Online Chicken Lizard Breeding

Yah, Catching, Raising, Training, and Breeding horses in BDO was a whole game onto itself. 

Mendel

Any number of MMORPGs have had gods and deities, but none have ever given us a simple religious system to compete with combat and crafting.  There haven't been shrines or temples to a specific god nor guidelines for how the population expects the individuals (read: players) to worship that god.  You wouldn't expect a Rallos Zek worshiper (to use EQ1) to behave the same as a disciple of Mithaniel Marr.  There should also be some recognition of standing within the 'religion' proper -- disciple, followers, priests, bishops, etc.; ranks within organizations.  There is a progression there.

The 'choice' of a god is frequently window dressing in character creation, all I'm asking for is to make this 'choice' meaningful in the rest of the game.

My aspiration was always to be known as Mendel, Choir-boy of Karana.  (Okay, maybe temporary 3rd alternate Choir-boy).

Ungood

Mendel said:

Any number of MMORPGs have had gods and deities, but none have ever given us a simple religious system to compete with combat and crafting.  There haven't been shrines or temples to a specific god nor guidelines for how the population expects the individuals (read: players) to worship that god.  You wouldn't expect a Rallos Zek worshiper (to use EQ1) to behave the same as a disciple of Mithaniel Marr.  There should also be some recognition of standing within the 'religion' proper -- disciple, followers, priests, bishops, etc.; ranks within organizations.  There is a progression there.

The 'choice' of a god is frequently window dressing in character creation, all I'm asking for is to make this 'choice' meaningful in the rest of the game.

My aspiration was always to be known as Mendel, Choir-boy of Karana.  (Okay, maybe temporary 3rd alternate Choir-boy).

Get this.

In DDO, IF you play a divine (Cleric, FvS, Paladin) The deity grants you unique abilities and even favored weapons that your class can use, even if they otherwise could not.

For example, a WarForged Cleric,  that follows the Lord of Blade, gets Great Sword as their Holy weapon, so they are proficient with Great Swords, even if their class does not normally grant such proficiency. 

If say that same Cleric opted to follow the Silver Flame, their Holy Weapon is now Longbow, so they gain proficiency long bow. 

Now, this in no way means they have to use that weapon, just that they gained proficiency with that weapon and can use it better than other clerics that didn't follow the same deity.

For example, there is nothing stopping the above mentioned Warforged Cleric from following the Silver Flame and opting to use the traditional heavy mace as their primary weapon,  if they so wish.

Each Deity also grants additional abilities, like for example, if you Followed Lady Vol, who's chosen weapon is the Dagger, when you get high enough level she provides a special ability called Blood is Life Transformation, which makes any dagger you are wielding vampiric (Meaning they heal you when you hit mobs) for a short period of time, as well other boons while in that form.

So, some games have touched upon this. Not saying this is the best game out there, but, it has some truly amazing features that a lot of modern MMO's have not even begin to touch.

Devon

Honestly this is getting a bit off the wall. If a weapon style difference is important to a mechanic in a game, I think you are missing what I was aiming for. Not "differences", more, NEW or Expanded upon and full developed concepts in gaming design. Not Flavors of the same.

Mendel

Ungood said:

Mendel said:

Any number of MMORPGs have had gods and deities, but none have ever given us a simple religious system to compete with combat and crafting.  There haven't been shrines or temples to a specific god nor guidelines for how the population expects the individuals (read: players) to worship that god.  You wouldn't expect a Rallos Zek worshiper (to use EQ1) to behave the same as a disciple of Mithaniel Marr.  There should also be some recognition of standing within the 'religion' proper -- disciple, followers, priests, bishops, etc.; ranks within organizations.  There is a progression there.

The 'choice' of a god is frequently window dressing in character creation, all I'm asking for is to make this 'choice' meaningful in the rest of the game.

My aspiration was always to be known as Mendel, Choir-boy of Karana.  (Okay, maybe temporary 3rd alternate Choir-boy).

Get this.

In DDO, IF you play a divine (Cleric, FvS, Paladin) The deity grants you unique abilities and even favored weapons that your class can use, even if they otherwise could not.

For example, a WarForged Cleric,  that follows the Lord of Blade, gets Great Sword as their Holy weapon, so they are proficient with Great Swords, even if their class does not normally grant such proficiency. 

If say that same Cleric opted to follow the Silver Flame, their Holy Weapon is now Longbow, so they gain proficiency long bow. 

Now, this in no way means they have to use that weapon, just that they gained proficiency with that weapon and can use it better than other clerics that didn't follow the same deity.

For example, there is nothing stopping the above mentioned Warforged Cleric from following the Silver Flame and opting to use the traditional heavy mace as their primary weapon,  if they so wish.

Each Deity also grants additional abilities, like for example, if you Followed Lady Vol, who's chosen weapon is the Dagger, when you get high enough level she provides a special ability called Blood is Life Transformation, which makes any dagger you are wielding vampiric (Meaning they heal you when you hit mobs) for a short period of time, as well other boons while in that form.

So, some games have touched upon this. Not saying this is the best game out there, but, it has some truly amazing features that a lot of modern MMO's have not even begin to touch.

Not close to the same at all to what I'm thinking.

In DDO, a priest class chooses a deity and that deity provides a set of spells/skills.  In many regards, these special skills are no different from a ranger being able to shoot bows and track, or a rogue being able sneak about and backstab.  They are just lore that builds into the character creation, it doesn't affect the goals and aims of the character in-game.

I'm thinking more about an in-game organization essentially ran by the deity.  The character can move into more prestigious positions within the religion, and the in-game actions and behaviors of the character affect this standing.  The deity can dictate what earns favor with them, and the highest ranks (of NPCs/PCs) could set some tasks and obligations for the followers.  These religions could easily have been a sociopolitical group vying with fighters, craftsmen and magicians for dominance in the world.  The key is that this organization has a finite leadership structure, and has specific duties and privileges for each follower from the lowest follower to the highest high priest.  (If the development team was especially blessed with time, money and some stray ideas, they could create different organizations for each deity -- a god of healing wouldn't necessarily operate the same as a god of war).