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GPUs vanish as cryptocurrency prices soar again

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    remsleep said:
    Ungood said:
    Not sure why people have an issue with this, while I have no idea how the mining works or even what this is all about, the idea of currency going fully digital for all industrialized nations is not that far off, we are legit, almost there already, I wager in a year or two, physical money will be some dinosaur that only gets used in old style laundromats, and porn stores, akin to Running Man, with the idea of New Money and Old Money. 

    But, with that put aside, realistically at this point, the only reason why we don't already have a single world currency is the egotism of individual governments, but there really is no reason why we shouldn't.

    I am however, betting that will end soon enough when the Won takes over as the Universal Currency of the Realms (AKA: World Reserve Currency) and we will all simply either adopt the Won (Which for a lot of gamers will be very easy, as many of us are already used to looking at game fiscal reports written in the Won, so it is something we are comfortable with) or perhaps some other single style of currency under a different name, so that for the few paranoid holdouts, it does not feel like China is taking over the world.

    Who knows.. we might even convert to metric, and not get stuck in the past using a 6 divisible system, and learn how to use the easier system of divisible of 10.

    There's a huge difference between "currency going digital" and blockchain based (or whatever other algorithm like IOTA etc) cryptocurrency.

    Currency has already largely gone digital - credit cards, online banking - almost all of global wealth is just numbers in bank's databases.

    Cryptocurrency like Bitcoin and Etherium uses blockchain -  which is really a type of decentralized database where all transactions are viewable to everyone. The data is stored in special "blocks" and is linked via encryption to form a chain - hence hte name "blockchain". Each block has the hash value of the previous block - thus the data within the block cannot be changed after the fact - so the integrity of the entire chain is maintained.

    People that mine cryptocurrency are basically paid to verify blockchain transactions - as in auditing Bitcoin transactions for example - that's what those GPUs are used for to calculate - by doing this they are ensuring there's no double-spending of bitcoin, and for their work they are paid in bitcoin.

    That's how mining works - sorry for the tangent, but bottom line - "currency going digital" and cryptocurrency are two entirely different things.

    I deadass have no idea how this works to be honest, and even after you described it, I can't say I got a handle on it either, nor do I want to invest a lot of brain power figuring it out.

    I hope they get an ROI for their funds spent, but, I think they are just looking for that pot of gold like all other get rich quick schemers and suckers do.

    I also filly agree with you that Crypto Currency  will never be a major currency, and while we are in fact moving towards going fully digital, as I have not had cash in my pocket for the last 6 months, with everything being on a card, or online, but, lets be honest, the people in power that want to control the wealth would never let this Crypto Stuff be a major contender.

    The hard reality is, Wealth is used to stimulate production and progress, to keep people laboring away for their money, not to have people with bedframes of motherboards on them.

    GdemamiMendel
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,414
    In my opinion, most cryptos won't make a good currency. The goal of a currency should be price stability. In order to accomplish this, inflation is necessary to match production growth. Most cryptos work backwards from this. It's initially easy to to get a coin, but gets ever more difficult until reaching a cap. An ideal crypto-currency would be tether.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Ungood said:

    I hope they get an ROI for their funds spent, but, I think they are just looking for that pot of gold like all other get rich quick schemers and suckers do.

    No, no, no.  You're only supposed to get a return on your investment if you invest the money in something that is actually useful.  If you spend $10 million to use zip ties to attach boxes of toothpicks to pine trees off in the forest, you're not supposed to get a return on your investment for that.  It should just be $10 million gone and that's the end of it.
    GdemamiUngood
  • Abscissa15Abscissa15 Member UncommonPosts: 70
    Indeed we are in a state of affairs that I've never before witnessed. 10 years ago I started a design for a desk with a PC built into it. It was a novel approach at the time and many have since successfully marketed the concept. Through painstaking savings and respecification of hardware as better components became available, I have reached a final design and line item punch list. Funding is at the target. Subsequently this hardware drought occurs. As you are aware, the latest RTX 3090 is on Amazon for $3K (Thx @Cleffy - J/K) and a R9 5950x is $1.5K, all at or near 100% markup. I'm struggling not to fall into what Kano designates desperate, and he's right. Today I will not support scalping. Yes, I'm moaning. Go humans.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    So scared my computer is going to give me trouble and I have to get a new card and stuff with these prices soaring. 

  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member RarePosts: 768
    kitarad said:
    So scared my computer is going to give me trouble and I have to get a new card and stuff with these prices soaring. 
    mining with GPU is no longer viable, the return on investment is simply not there. Bitmain is pretty much the one that has a monopoly on mining equipment. the difference is quite big compare to GPU mining and bitmain keeps cranking out those machines and the difficulty is rising quite exponentially. you can get an RTX3080 to mine the result is still less than the same price bitmain mining eq.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,052
    edited January 2021
    Quizzical said:
    Crypto and the chip shortage worked out in my favor!  Couldn't get a PS5, so I just dumped it into Bitcoin and now I have enough for all the Playstation iterations that will ever be released for the foreseeable future.

    Probably not a great investment for retirement, though.  Crazy that ETH doubled in a week, though.
    Congrats on winning a jackpot at the slot machines like that, but you might want to collect your winnings and get the money back out.  Wait too long and it likely won't be enough to pick up a used PS2 or PS3 anymore.

    For those who aren't aware, Bitcoin prices have roughly quadrupled since last October.
    I cashed at the end of the year on both BTC and ETH, got five times what I put in. A bit too early as I could have gone for six times but I was convinced it was going to drop in the first week of the new year. 

    It does seem the current run is coming to an end soon. After that it will definitely rise more with predictions going as high as a 100.000 at the end of the year. We’ll see, when it drops below a certain point I’ll reinvest. Only what is left of the profits though, got a new tv, two ipads for the kids, a new laptop for the misses and classic wooden kabinet for said tv and all my consoles. Perhaps Crypto is all hype, but so far I am riding the wave  B)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Slapshot1188Gdemami
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981
    remsleep said:
    Its horrible. My GPU died few months ago. And I dont know what to do.
    Last generation of Nvidia GPUs have their price growing instead of falling ( as it should because new generation came out ) and new generation is not available anywhere.
    So at the moment I am playing on Nvidia 660 GTC, and will probably be forced too for many months to come...

    This is what I am afraid of - there's no stock at all of 2000 or 3000 series hell I can't even find 1160s.

    The whole GPU market is 100% fucked

    I just checked, all 1060 ( i kind of considering nabbing one of those ) dissapeared from local dealers. :O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Indeed we are in a state of affairs that I've never before witnessed. 10 years ago I started a design for a desk with a PC built into it. It was a novel approach at the time and many have since successfully marketed the concept. Through painstaking savings and respecification of hardware as better components became available, I have reached a final design and line item punch list. Funding is at the target. Subsequently this hardware drought occurs. As you are aware, the latest RTX 3090 is on Amazon for $3K (Thx @Cleffy - J/K) and a R9 5950x is $1.5K, all at or near 100% markup. I'm struggling not to fall into what Kano designates desperate, and he's right. Today I will not support scalping. Yes, I'm moaning. Go humans.
    What's happening to CPUs and GPUs right now is totally different from each other.  Both have happened before, but not at the same time.

    On the CPU side, Zen 3 offers a major jump in performance over all previous CPUs.  It's plausible that we'll never again see that large of a jump in x86 CPUs.  Many previous new generations of CPUs brought far smaller advancements over the previous than Zen 3.  Even those that were major advancements in recent years have been one new Intel CPU improving quite a bit over a previous Intel CPU.  Intel had no reason to rush the new generation to market, as people who wanted a high end CPU and didn't want to wait would buy an older Intel CPU for the same price, anyway.  AMD did have reason to rush Zen 3 to market, as people who didn't want to wait might have bought Intel instead.  The last time we saw a jump like this where the new high end CPU was from a different vendor than the old was Conroe back in 2006.  I don't remember what launch supplies looked like, but that was a long time ago.

    On the GPU side, it's a problem of the Ethereum miners buying everything.  This also happened from about mid-2017 through mid-2018.  Back then, they had a strong preference for AMD GPUs over Nvidia because Nvidia's GDDR5X memory controller didn't handle the random lookups to global memory well, so you could still get the GTX 1080 and 1080 Ti for much of the year that things were crazy.  At the peak of it, the Ethereum miners bought out those cards, too.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    kitarad said:
    So scared my computer is going to give me trouble and I have to get a new card and stuff with these prices soaring. 
    mining with GPU is no longer viable, the return on investment is simply not there. Bitmain is pretty much the one that has a monopoly on mining equipment. the difference is quite big compare to GPU mining and bitmain keeps cranking out those machines and the difficulty is rising quite exponentially. you can get an RTX3080 to mine the result is still less than the same price bitmain mining eq.
    For Bitcoin, that's true.  For Ethereum, not so much.  The problem is that Ethereum mining is specifically designed to be ASIC-resistant by making it memory-hard.

    For Bitcoin, the heavy part of the mining algorithm is a hash function that's doing shifts and rotates and addition.  You can make an ASIC to do those really well and various companies have, with Bitmain the most successful among them.

    For Ethereum, the heavy part of the mining algorithm is random table lookups to an array several gigabytes in size.  You really can't make an ASIC to massively speed that up.  The ideal ASIC for it would basically have a GPU's memory and memory controllers plus a little bit of other compute stuff.  You could make that a lot lower power than a full GPU and a lot cheaper per die than a full GPU, but you're not going to make it massively faster than a GPU.  Try to build such an ASIC and by the time it reaches market, most likely either Ethereum prices will have cratered or Ethereum will have switched to proof of stake so it can't still be mined, so your investment of tens of millions of dollars to design the ASIC will only get you a chip that you can't sell.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    edited January 2021
    Rhoklaw said:
    My only concern with cryptocurrency is how it simply appeared out of thin air and what is entailed with acquiring it. Maybe it's just me and I've watched several videos on it but I find cryptocurrency to be the biggest Ponzi scheme in human history. Also, any currency related to technology is susceptible to hacking. I know there are extreme levels of security involved, but one thing I'm sure we've all learned about technology connected to the internet is that nothing is 100% safe and never will be.

    I know some Asian Hedge fund just purchased like a billion in BitCoin or whatever, but I don't think world banks will ever accept BitCoin. That doesn't mean it isn't utilized by some commercial companies. I personally don't trust it as a true currency, especially with how unstable it is. 
    In its current incarnation, yeah, Bitcoin pretty much is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time.  It's already more than an order of magnitude larger than Bernie Madoff's.  Ponzi's original scheme from which the name derives only involved $15 million, though if you adjust it as a percentage of GDP, it would be equivalent to several billion dollars in today's money.

    It's secure in some ways and not in others.  If you do online banking and forget your password, you expect that you can recover the money.  If you have Bitcoin and forget your password, it's gone and unrecoverable.  If someone steals your credit card and makes fraudulent charges and you report them in a timely manner, you expect that the charges will be reversed and you won't be held liable for them.  If someone steals your Bitcoin, it's gone and unrecoverable.  So in those senses, it is insecure.  And those really need to be fixed before any cryptocurrency can be viable for use as a general currency.
    Gdemami[Deleted User]
  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    I doubt cryptocurrencies in their current form will ever take over conventional banking because to do so you'd need a majority of users to trust in it. The majority don't even understand it let alone trust it.

    People just see a new get rich quick scheme and jump in. That's not the basis for a new financial system to replace what we have now.

    Plus so many governments and financial institutions would be giving up power i'm not sure that will ever happen.
    TwistedSister77[Deleted User]
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    edited January 2021
    remsleep said:
    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol
    I don't get this joke.. did I miss something?

    Ah yah.. I did miss something, apparently, something pretty big all things said and done, apparently Amazon, Apple, and Google are using their clout to silence people.

    Eh.. funny this gets brought up on a game forum, reminds me of a ways back when China did the same thing when that whole Free Hong Kong thing arose.

    There was a huge presence about it on the Internet and very strong among games to show solidarity with Hong Kong or whatever, can't say I looked too deeply into it, and I don't think anyone else here did either TBH.

    However, I do remember that China flat out made it clear they would shut down any service including Phone games and MMO's that showed any support for those radical extremist, did not censor and ban any of their accounts that showed support or sympathy for them as well.

    I remember a few of the phone games I played going offline over that, and accounts being banned all over the place, even some accounts of American origin were getting shut down over that, or so I heard.

    Truth is, thanks to the swift and effective censorship of the China Government, it all faded to black very quickly and went away as fast as it started, and I, which I wager like many others, in short order simply stopped caring because it didn't affect me directly, and went back to playing my games, of course minus the few that were rightfully and legally shutdown for their treasons actions, which TBH, I can't say I really miss, I mean, truth is, thanks to how well China handled the situation, I could not tell if the games got shut down or simply went of business like many countless other games have done.

    Anyway.. Game On.
    Post edited by Ungood on
    GdemamiArglebargleIselin
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Ungood said:
    remsleep said:
    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol
    I don't get this joke.. did I miss something?

    It's related to current events, and borderline political.  The site has been cracking down on Politics, even in an obvious joking situation.  I merely didn't add some emoji, and bam, zoom, post deleted.  Mild warning and no response to query on alternate, more acceptable wording.

    I really don't know if it's safe to use my "Maybe when this is all over, we can get together with a Sam Adams and some Whigs" joke.  I've been saving that one for awhile.



    UngoodSlapshot1188

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,414
    remsleep said:

    The idea that people are thinking about who the president of US will be and what implications that will have on their GPU purchase, come on now... is this Parler or mmorpg.com?

    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol


    It won't affect their GPU purchase, but it will affect where they put their money. I was explaining the reason why crypto had high demand before the 2017 Tax Law. Once the law was passed, the price on crypto dropped by 1/10th.
    With the expectation of a change to tax laws, people are going to change where their money is directed.
    Ungood
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Ungood said:
    remsleep said:
    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol
    I don't get this joke.. did I miss something?
    Basically, Parler is like Twitter, except without moderation that heavily favors left-wing political views.  On Twitter, you can post blatant lies, rabid conspiracy theories, defend rioting, and so forth, so long as it's in favor of left-wing politics.  Try to do that in favor of right-wing politics and Twitter will crack down hard, at least if they notice.  Parler will allow both sides to say stupid stuff like that, not just the left, though they do draw the line at encouraging actual violence.

    After Twitter aggressively censored political news that was probably true but would make Biden look bad in the runup to the election, a lot of people on the right were looking for an alternative, and many moved to Parler.  So while Parler will freely allow people on either the left or the right to say stupid stuff, most of the people who use it are politically on the right, because left-wingers prefer Twitter.

    So naturally, that has led left-wing activists to try to get Parler banned, as if it's somehow fundamentally worse than Twitter.  They've convinced Google and Apple to kick Parler out of their app stores, and Amazon to stop hosting Parler's servers, which takes the site offline for a while until they can find alternate hosting.  The reasons that the big tech companies gave for the bans are reasonable enough in isolation, but if applied consistently, would certainly require banning Twitter, and probably all of the big social media sites.
    UngoodMendelGdemamiTwistedSister77Slapshot1188finefluffIselin
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    remsleep said:
    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol
    I don't get this joke.. did I miss something?
    Basically, Parler is like Twitter, except without moderation that heavily favors left-wing political views.  On Twitter, you can post blatant lies, rabid conspiracy theories, defend rioting, and so forth, so long as it's in favor of left-wing politics.  Try to do that in favor of right-wing politics and Twitter will crack down hard, at least if they notice.  Parler will allow both sides to say stupid stuff like that, not just the left, though they do draw the line at encouraging actual violence.

    After Twitter aggressively censored political news that was probably true but would make Biden look bad in the runup to the election, a lot of people on the right were looking for an alternative, and many moved to Parler.  So while Parler will freely allow people on either the left or the right to say stupid stuff, most of the people who use it are politically on the right, because left-wingers prefer Twitter.

    So naturally, that has led left-wing activists to try to get Parler banned, as if it's somehow fundamentally worse than Twitter.  They've convinced Google and Apple to kick Parler out of their app stores, and Amazon to stop hosting Parler's servers, which takes the site offline for a while until they can find alternate hosting.  The reasons that the big tech companies gave for the bans are reasonable enough in isolation, but if applied consistently, would certainly require banning Twitter, and probably all of the big social media sites.

    Let's just hope the banning stops at the various social media outlets.  If major utilities, like power companies and/or ISPs get on this banning train, I don't know what would happen.  I expect it might be rather disgusting.



    GdemamiQuizzical

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:

    I hope they get an ROI for their funds spent, but, I think they are just looking for that pot of gold like all other get rich quick schemers and suckers do.

    No, no, no.  You're only supposed to get a return on your investment if you invest the money in something that is actually useful. 
    Ok.. fair point.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    remsleep said:
    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol
    I don't get this joke.. did I miss something?
    Basically, Parler is like Twitter, except without moderation that heavily favors left-wing political views.  On Twitter, you can post blatant lies, rabid conspiracy theories, defend rioting, and so forth, so long as it's in favor of left-wing politics.  Try to do that in favor of right-wing politics and Twitter will crack down hard, at least if they notice.  Parler will allow both sides to say stupid stuff like that, not just the left, though they do draw the line at encouraging actual violence.

    After Twitter aggressively censored political news that was probably true but would make Biden look bad in the runup to the election, a lot of people on the right were looking for an alternative, and many moved to Parler.  So while Parler will freely allow people on either the left or the right to say stupid stuff, most of the people who use it are politically on the right, because left-wingers prefer Twitter.

    So naturally, that has led left-wing activists to try to get Parler banned, as if it's somehow fundamentally worse than Twitter.  They've convinced Google and Apple to kick Parler out of their app stores, and Amazon to stop hosting Parler's servers, which takes the site offline for a while until they can find alternate hosting.  The reasons that the big tech companies gave for the bans are reasonable enough in isolation, but if applied consistently, would certainly require banning Twitter, and probably all of the big social media sites.
    I think simply removing the Section 230 protections from FB, Twitter, Google, Amazon, and the like, will fix the problems. How they have maintained that protection past their "Fact checkers" I have no idea, because Section 230, depends on them NOT controlling the content, so they should have lost all Section 230 protections they second they sought to control their content at all, it's rather obvious why they haven't, mainly because.. well.. this is a great place for this discussion.. because you know.. Money Talks.

    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Ungood said:
    I think simply removing the Section 230 protections from FB, Twitter, Google, Amazon, and the like, will fix the problems. How they have maintained that protection past their "Fact checkers" I have no idea, because Section 230, depends on them NOT controlling the content, so they should have lost all Section 230 protections they second they sought to control their content at all, it's rather obvious why they haven't, mainly because.. well.. this is a great place for this discussion.. because you know.. Money Talks.
    Section 230 is a whole other can of worms, and commonly misunderstood.  Even the name is shorthand for section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.  The point of the act was right there in the name.  The idea was that back in 1996, politicians had the idea that there was porn on the Internet and they needed to protect children from it.  From the state of things today, you can probably guess how successful they weren't in that quest.  Most of the Communications Decency Act was declared unconstitutional the next year.

    Section 230 basically said that if people said something libelous, the site that merely hosted it wasn't responsible for it and couldn't be sued for libel.  The person who said it could still be sued for libel, but random, anonymous people aren't likely to have enough money to be worth suing.  Furthermore, it said that even if the site makes a good faith effort at filtering out objectionable content, by which they mostly meant pornographic, that wouldn't make the site liable for anything that they missed.

    What Section 230 seems to have had in mind is services akin to AOL.  It certainly applies to ISPs.  But it surely wasn't intended to apply to modern social media sites that didn't even exist when it was written.

    The problem is that there has to be some sort of libel protections or else forums like this one would be impossible.  One random user says something libelous and the site gets sued for more than the site is worth and shuts down.  Moderated forums and comment sections would mostly disappear from the Internet.  If forums and comment sections are treated like publishers, then at a bare minimum, they'd have to manually review and approve every single comment before it can be posted.  Hiring moderators to do that is expensive, and would lead to much more heavy-handed moderation from sites not wanting to touch anything remotely risky.

    But even if there has to be some sort of libel protections to allow forums like this one to exist, an orphaned section of a law that was mostly ruled unconstitutional being customarily interpreted as protecting things that didn't exist when it was written is an awfully thin reed to hang those protections on.  What we really need is a new law with clearer rules that more directly apply to the sort of sites that exist today and can provide the libel protections via black letter law rather than customary interpretations that some future overly zealous prosecutor might decide to jettison.
    ArglebargleUngoodMendel
  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    edited January 2021
    1st amendment has limitations, as the supreme court ruled many times... most famous people will recognize is shouting "fire" in a packed movie theater on purpose.  This does not rise to that standard.  People reasonable know in 2021 the internet is full of crap... stranger danger.  

    So now you basically go to the argument that people are too dumb, and need full censorship for their own good.  Who makes those decisions?  Frankly, it's pretty darn pompous and elitist to decide that.

    Censorship of the internet and platforms (aka free assembly) is very disturbing.  Especially if deemed by CEOs of virtual monopolies with their agendas.

    Shutting down platforms with different rules... scary.
    Slapshot1188Mendel
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    edited January 2021
    1st amendment has limitations, as the supreme court ruled many times... most famous people will recognize is shouting "fire" in a packed movie theater on purpose.  This does not rise to that standard.  People reasonable know in 2021 the internet is full of crap... stranger danger.  

    So now you basically go to the argument that people are too dumb, and need full censorship for their own good.  Who makes those decisions?  Frankly, it's pretty darn pompous and elitist to decide that.

    Censorship of the internet by and platforms (aka free assembly) is very disturbing.  Especially if deemed by CEOs of virtual monopolies with their agendas.

    Shutting down platforms with different rules... scary.
    What is interesting is that the common refrain has always been that this is a private company and that people are free to use a competitor.  But now, the big tech companies are actually colluding to make that impossible.

    The FACT that Google, Apple and Amazon all attacked Twitters only viable competitor at the same time should SCARE THE SHIT out of everyone.  Don’t think about it as “your side” or “their side”.  Think about it as the big tech companies all colluding to take out the only minor competitor to one of their own.

    Its scary.  More scary that most are unable to see the larger picture and the ramifications for the future.

    TwistedSister77[Deleted User]Mendel

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    The final success state for capitalism is monopoly.   To avoid that look, we have oligarchies that just view things the same way.  Hence GPU issues now, where there are only two viable choices.  

    Section 230 allows internet companies to work, and getting rid of it would indeed cause tremendous disruption.  The equivalent of making old school papers responsible for the content of every letter to the editor

    Consider the ramifications for a site like MMORPG.  
    Gdemami

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    edited January 2021
    The FACT that Google, Apple and Amazon all attacked Twitters only viable competitor at the same time should SCARE THE SHIT out of everyone.  Don’t think about it as “your side” or “their side”.  Think about it as the big tech companies all colluding to take out the only minor competitor to one of their own.

    Well said.  I was telling someone today that despite the fact that some of the stuff on Parler is enraging, I support anyone's right to speech that doesn't involve a direct threat of physical, quantifiable victimization.  I just feel that if I feel good about somebody losing something over their opinions, there's going to be a day when someone does the same to me for one of mine and I'll have no right to speak on the matter.

    When Google can herp derp about hosting ISIS recruitment videos and the like for years, they don't get to grandstand now.  It's the same with Twitter who allowed for the same sort of destruction to be organized on their platform earlier this year.

    Honestly, I'd rather have the extremists of all types out in the open where they have to present their ideas in a more open marketplace of thought...and it's easier to know what people are up to because, fuck you, I'm nosey.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Mendel said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    remsleep said:
    Oh wait... its Sunday isn't it ... bye bye Parler, lol
    I don't get this joke.. did I miss something?
    Basically, Parler is like Twitter, except without moderation that heavily favors left-wing political views.  On Twitter, you can post blatant lies, rabid conspiracy theories, defend rioting, and so forth, so long as it's in favor of left-wing politics.  Try to do that in favor of right-wing politics and Twitter will crack down hard, at least if they notice.  Parler will allow both sides to say stupid stuff like that, not just the left, though they do draw the line at encouraging actual violence.

    After Twitter aggressively censored political news that was probably true but would make Biden look bad in the runup to the election, a lot of people on the right were looking for an alternative, and many moved to Parler.  So while Parler will freely allow people on either the left or the right to say stupid stuff, most of the people who use it are politically on the right, because left-wingers prefer Twitter.

    So naturally, that has led left-wing activists to try to get Parler banned, as if it's somehow fundamentally worse than Twitter.  They've convinced Google and Apple to kick Parler out of their app stores, and Amazon to stop hosting Parler's servers, which takes the site offline for a while until they can find alternate hosting.  The reasons that the big tech companies gave for the bans are reasonable enough in isolation, but if applied consistently, would certainly require banning Twitter, and probably all of the big social media sites.

    Let's just hope the banning stops at the various social media outlets.  If major utilities, like power companies and/or ISPs get on this banning train, I don't know what would happen.  I expect it might be rather disgusting.
    The problem is that this is just the latest step in a very long string of things separating the political left and right, and not really something new.

    In order to function properly, society really needs for people with wildly different political views to get along with each other.  We need for people all across the political spectrum to view others all across the political spectrum as people that we can get along with.

    It is well known and understood that the key to preventing, eliminating, or at least mitigating undesirable prejudices is having frequent, positive interactions with the group that you might otherwise be prejudiced against.  That applies just as well whether the issue it hand is race, religion, or the one that seems to be most troublesome today:  political views.

    In every election, political consultants will tell you that not only is the candidate on your side amazingly wonderful, but the candidate on the other side is unusually awful.  That's the most effective way to get you to vote how they want, so that's not going away.  But if half of the people you meet on a daily basis and half of your friends are on the other side of the political spectrum, you're not going to conclude that everyone on the other side is evil.  Or even if it's only 1/3 or 1/4, that will have the same effect.

    But if the only thing you ever hear about people on the other side of the political spectrum is propaganda about how awful they are, and you never meet any of them yourself, you might believe that everyone who disagrees with you is evil.  You might believe wild conspiracy theories that are easily disproven because you never bother to see the other side.  You might even believe that the other side needs to be destroyed for the good of society.  When both sides believe that they need to destroy the other, very bad things happen, such as civil wars.

    That's why it's so valuable for society to have major institutions that are beloved all across the political spectrum.  Whether it's attending the same churches, rooting for the same sports teams, eating at the same restaurants, or watching the same movies, positive interactions with people who disagree with you politically are good for you, good for them, and good for society.

    But they're also targets for political zealots who see such shared spaces as the only way to get their political message to people on the other side.  So they try to co-opt formerly neutral institutions and get them to push a particular political message.  That convinces no one that they're right, and only drives people away.  It's not just that it eliminates positive interactions with the other side, but it creates negative ones that will help to convince the other side that the side with the zealots who just co-opted the institution is at least obnoxious and maybe also evil.  That sort of garbage is tearing society apart.

    But it's also the reason why computer games might well save the world, or at least save society from some future catastrophe.  If the two political sides can't watch the same movies or cheer for the same sports teams (the NBA putting political slogans on jerseys last year was hugely damaging here) or whatever because so many big institutions have become politicized, we can at least play the same computer games.

    Computer games are harder to politicize than most other forms of media for several reasons:
    1)  Games commonly take place in fantasy worlds where the political issues that divide us in real-life don't exist.  That makes it far more natural for games to be apolitical than for, say, movies set in modern-day Earth.
    2)  It takes a lot of time for an institution to become respected across the political spectrum and then get politicized after that.  Most game studios haven't existed long enough for that to happen, as it's a very volatile industry.
    3)  Games are a fairly global market.  For most Americans, it is fairly rare to watch movies or television shows or listen to music made by non-American companies.  But there are many games made abroad that sell well in the United States.  Games made by foreign developers are much harder to politicize for an American audience, partially because it's stupid to do when a large fraction of your audience isn't American, and partially because foreign developers are likely to neither know nor care much about American politics.

    So yes, playing computer games might well save the world.  And I say that only half in jest.  At least if you can find a video card to run the games.  (See, this post really is on-topic.)
    cmacqGdemamiMendel
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