New monitor 1080 vs. 4k?

Aethaeryn

I have been looking at articles recently to try to figure this out but I always value actual experience (also theory) in these situations.

I am wanting a larger monitor for a few reasons:  (24" up to 27")

- I am having some pretty bad eye strain (also going to adjust lighting).  I am considering an "eye care" monitor from ASUS (could just be gimmicks)
- I would like more screen real estate to run Foundry for VTT games (although it might just make things larger depending on how it scales)
- I am getting older. . I feel like I am constantly leaning into my 24" 1080 screen (it is about 3-4 feet away

I am considering 4k on the understanding that it produces exactly 4x the pixels and I am hoping I can get a crisp 1080 image
-I might upgrade my video card in the future to an RTX 30 something or other when they are more available (in the next year maybe)
For non gaming applications:
-I am thinking with FoundryVTT and work apps I might run at 4k and can scale the UI and have more space without things being too pixelated.

I would consider 1440 but I think I will likely skip past that.  I can do a 1080 monitor fairly cheap and get 4k later if I go that route.

My current hardware:
-AMD Ryzen 5 3600
-GTX 1060 6GB

has anyone gamed at 1080 on a 4K
I assume I can run documents, less graphics-intensive applications, etc at 4K without a problem when I am working?

I was considering this 1080 monitor: link
If I was going 4K I might go with something like this : https://www.amazon.ca/Gaming-VG289Q-Monitor-FreeSync-DisplayPort/dp/B0845NXCXF/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=asus+eye+care+monitor+27+4k&qid=1611846543&s=pc&sr=1-8

Aethaeryn

https://www.amazon.ca/VL279HE-Adaptive-Sync-FreeSyncTM-Frameless-Mountable/dp/B085HLDX1Z/ref=pd_di_sccai_1?pd_rd_w=9VU0E&pf_rd_p=e92f388e-b766-4f7f-aac1-ee1d0056e8fb&pf_rd_r=NJ2ZYVQVDZR56DZ083ZY&pd_rd_r=905d0800-6eb2-46bc-bf30-f541d39e109a&pd_rd_wg=4bynH&pd_rd_i=B085HLDX1Z&psc=1

for 1st link

Ridelynn

1440p is where gaming is at. 

4K has issues still - Windows scaling is getting better but is far from perfect. Old games can’t handle it and the UI is tiny, or you end up playing it in a lower resolution anyway. And many (most?  all?) video cards struggle to deliver good frame rates at 4K. And if you try to just game at 1080, yeah, it works, but it’s noticeably worse being a non-native resolution.

4k is great for text and static images (web browsing, content creation, etc), but it’s still too soon for great gaming.

My 2cp - coming from running 4K monitors for the last couple of years.

Mendel

I've always found that it is best for my eyes when the video image is running at the same level as my monitor's native resolution.  So, a 1440 monitor and resolution, or a 1080 monitor and resolution.  Especially true with digital monitors; there's only so many physical elements in a screen.

I'd also recommend annual visits to a good eye doctor.  I'd also NOT recommend my eye doctor.

Quizzical

I'd advise against buying a 4K monitor unless you're going to run it at 4K.  Monitors generally prefer to run at their native resolutions, and sometimes weird things will go wrong if you try to do otherwise.

Your post is a little bit like someone who comes in asking for video card advice and wants help choosing between a $200 card and a $700 card.  (Well, other than that those video cards are both out of stock right now.)  If that's your range, then have you considered something in between?  In monitor terms, if you're considering both 1920x1080 and 3840x2160, then you really should also consider 2560x1440.

If you're having eye strain issues, then I'd definitely get a good quality IPS monitor.  Asus Eye Care seems to mean:
1)  the monitor won't flicker (which is true of any reasonably good monitor), and
2)  they have an option to make the colors display wrong by turning down the blue light (which you probably won't use).

There are apparently people who think that reducing the blue light you see shortly before you go to bed will help you sleep.  I don't know if there's any real basis for that or if it's just garbage.

If the problem is that you're leaning toward the monitor to make it closer, have you considered moving the monitor to be closer to where you sit?

Vrika

Quizzical said:

There are apparently people who think that reducing the blue light you see shortly before you go to bed will help you sleep.  I don't know if there's any real basis for that or if it's just garbage.

Reducing blue light can also help some people with eye strain.

I suffer from eye strain, and turning blue light down on my monitor helps. Also when working I try to use office programs that allow me to have yellowish background instead of white, because the white background starts to hurt my eyes much more than yellow background does.

Eye strain and what causes it varies from person to person, so even if reducing blue light helps me, that doesn't mean it'd help everyone with eye strain.

Mendel

Vrika said:

Quizzical said:

There are apparently people who think that reducing the blue light you see shortly before you go to bed will help you sleep.  I don't know if there's any real basis for that or if it's just garbage.

Reducing blue light can also help some people with eye strain.

I suffer from eye strain, and turning blue light down on my monitor helps. Also when working I try to use office programs that allow me to have yellowish background instead of white, because the white background starts to hurt my eyes much more than yellow background does.

Eye strain and what causes it varies from person to person, so even if reducing blue light helps me, that doesn't mean it'd help everyone with eye strain.

Looking at black text on white pages hurts me.  I do much, much better with either an inverted color scheme (white on black).  My all-time favorite was yellow text on a dark green background.

But like you say, eye strain varies from person to person.

Cleffy

It depends on what your GPU is. If your GPU doesn't support 4k60, it's not worth getting. You can scale down a 4k image to 1080p 4:1, and I have done this on other monitors. Depending on the monitor, it may also be capable of 1080p 120hz or 2160p 60hz. I would make sure it's capable of doing that if you go the 4k route if the monitor is not capable of 2160p 120hz. Higher refresh rates help with fast motion graphics and reduces motion sickness.

If you are getting 4k to read, then definitely go 4k. There is a difference between 4k and 1440p in how they display text at 27/28".

I've only experienced scaling issues when using more than 1 monitor at different resolutions and HDR capability on a direct 4:1 downscale.

Sylvinstar

Personally I'd go 1440P.  Best thing to do is find a store and look at them both and make a decision.

Aethaeryn

Cleffy said:

It depends on what your GPU is. If your GPU doesn't support 4k60, it's not worth getting. You can scale down a 4k image to 1080p 4:1, and I have done this on other monitors. Depending on the monitor, it may also be capable of 1080p 120hz or 2160p 60hz. I would make sure it's capable of doing that if you go the 4k route if the monitor is not capable of 2160p 120hz. Higher refresh rates help with fast motion graphics and reduces motion sickness.

If you are getting 4k to read, then definitely go 4k. There is a difference between 4k and 1440p in how they display text at 27/28".

I've only experienced scaling issues when using more than 1 monitor at different resolutions and HDR capability on a direct 4:1 downscale.

This might be the key. . I am used to using two monitors and the ones I currently have are 1080.    Thank you for the insight.

Aethaeryn

Sylvinstar said:

Personally I'd go 1440P.  Best thing to do is find a store and look at them both and make a decision.

I guess I will have to look at pricing.  I assumed because there were not a standard resolution for Television etc. that they would be more expensive. . thanks!  I will re-look at that.

Aethaeryn

Vrika said:

Quizzical said:

There are apparently people who think that reducing the blue light you see shortly before you go to bed will help you sleep.  I don't know if there's any real basis for that or if it's just garbage.

Reducing blue light can also help some people with eye strain.

I suffer from eye strain, and turning blue light down on my monitor helps. Also when working I try to use office programs that allow me to have yellowish background instead of white, because the white background starts to hurt my eyes much more than yellow background does.

Eye strain and what causes it varies from person to person, so even if reducing blue light helps me, that doesn't mean it'd help everyone with eye strain.

Yeah, I read recently that the blue light thing doesn't affect sleep at all.  It was one of those things that made sense based on other science but there wasn't an actual correlation when studied.  It could still mean less eye strain.  I have found by increasing the room lighting (more natural if possible) and turning down the brightness on my monitor has helped a lot.

Aethaeryn

Quizzical said:

I'd advise against buying a 4K monitor unless you're going to run it at 4K.  Monitors generally prefer to run at their native resolutions, and sometimes weird things will go wrong if you try to do otherwise.

Your post is a little bit like someone who comes in asking for video card advice and wants help choosing between a $200 card and a $700 card.  (Well, other than that those video cards are both out of stock right now.)  If that's your range, then have you considered something in between?  In monitor terms, if you're considering both 1920x1080 and 3840x2160, then you really should also consider 2560x1440.

If you're having eye strain issues, then I'd definitely get a good quality IPS monitor.  Asus Eye Care seems to mean:
1)  the monitor won't flicker (which is true of any reasonably good monitor), and
2)  they have an option to make the colors display wrong by turning down the blue light (which you probably won't use).

There are apparently people who think that reducing the blue light you see shortly before you go to bed will help you sleep.  I don't know if there's any real basis for that or if it's just garbage.

If the problem is that you're leaning toward the monitor to make it closer, have you considered moving the monitor to be closer to where you sit?

I have considered moving it closer   I was surprised that it took me a few minutes to even consider  that    I have also considered mounting it on my wall further away to have more desk space.

I think I will look at 1440.  I think the reason I was skipping it is that 1080 is cheap and I didn't want to go 4K later (in  a year maybe and have a 1440 monitor kicking around.

I am going to check it out though.  I am glad you mentioned IPS.  I was looking at one monitor that now turns out to not have been IPS.  that would have been bad.

Aethaeryn

Ridelynn said:

1440p is where gaming is at. 

4K has issues still - Windows scaling is getting better but is far from perfect. Old games can’t handle it and the UI is tiny, or you end up playing it in a lower resolution anyway. And many (most?  all?) video cards struggle to deliver good frame rates at 4K. And if you try to just game at 1080, yeah, it works, but it’s noticeably worse being a non-native resolution.

4k is great for text and static images (web browsing, content creation, etc), but it’s still too soon for great gaming.

My 2cp - coming from running 4K monitors for the last couple of years.

Maybe I should consider both.  I do run two monitors typically.  I could get the 4K for work and swap to the 1080 for gaming since I have two already.  Thanks!

Aethaeryn

Mendel said:

I've always found that it is best for my eyes when the video image is running at the same level as my monitor's native resolution.  So, a 1440 monitor and resolution, or a 1080 monitor and resolution.  Especially true with digital monitors; there's only so many physical elements in a screen.

I'd also recommend annual visits to a good eye doctor.  I'd also NOT recommend my eye doctor.

Yes, this I should do   I will reconsider the 1440.

Quizzical

If a monitor is IPS, it will say so and probably in a prominent place, as that's a selling point.  If you can't find where it says what type of panel a monitor uses, then it's probably TN, and not what you want.

2560x1440 is a common resolution for monitors.  Yeah, it will tend to be more expensive than 1920x1080, but I'd still expect it to be cheaper than 4K.

What to do about eye strain depends on why you think you're having eye strain problems.  If everything is too small and hard for you to see, that's very different from if it is a strain to look at a monitor at all even when it's just pictures.

Quizzical

Mendel said:

Looking at black text on white pages hurts me.  I do much, much better with either an inverted color scheme (white on black).

So that's why you hang around on this site.

Aethaeryn

Quizzical said:

If a monitor is IPS, it will say so and probably in a prominent place, as that's a selling point.  If you can't find where it says what type of panel a monitor uses, then it's probably TN, and not what you want.

2560x1440 is a common resolution for monitors.  Yeah, it will tend to be more expensive than 1920x1080, but I'd still expect it to be cheaper than 4K.

What to do about eye strain depends on why you think you're having eye strain problems.  If everything is too small and hard for you to see, that's very different from if it is a strain to look at a monitor at all even when it's just pictures.

Thanks, yeah I can't even look at a Google Meet now without tearing up.  I think the problem is that what I do for entertainment is typically in the same room on the same screen    Thanks again.

Quizzical

One thing that I'll say about 4K monitors is that if you get more pixels, you need more inches, too.  You can justify getting a 4K monitor that is 32".  I'd advise against getting a 4K monitor that is only 24".  Some programs will scale well and some just won't, and too many pixels with too few inches will make some things tiny.  The problem with just getting a larger 4K monitor is that size and resolution both add to the cost, so getting a good one may be outside your budget.

Groqstrong

If you are planning to buy a 30xx card in the future i would buy a 4k monitor 30 series cards can handle 60fps @4k np. Keep in mind though upgrading to a 30 series card is probably going to require additional upgrades from your PC.

Quizzical

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Groqstrong said:

If you are planning to buy a 30xx card in the future i would buy a 4k monitor 30 series cards can handle 60fps @4k np. Keep in mind though upgrading to a 30 series card is probably going to require additional upgrades from your PC.

I'm running my 2070 Super with a 750W (top quality of course, not Chinese crap which advertises 1000W put will explode over 500W) power supply, and I don't think the 30 series are using much more power - at worse he's have to upgrade his PSU, but not anything else.

Whether the 3000 series uses more power depends on which card you get.  The RTX 3090 and 3080 are the two most power-hungry consumer single-GPU cards at stock settings ever made.  Power usage won't get so out of hand further down the stack, but lower end cards don't have as high of performance, either.

The GeForce RTX 3000 series didn't improve its performance per watt by much over the 2000 series.  Rather, it allowed higher performance by blowing out the power budget, kind of like what Intel did with its successive refreshes of Sky Lake CPUs.

Nvidia had been slightly ahead of AMD in performance per watt last generation, but AMD got a big jump there in the new generation and Nvidia didn't, leaving AMD substantially ahead on performance per watt.  But you can't really solve that by just buying a Radeon RX 6000 series card instead, as those cards barely exist because AMD has chosen to prioritize more lucrative Zen 3 CPUs over Navi 2X GPUs with its limited supply of wafers from TSMC.  AMD is getting quite a lot of wafers from TSMC, but there's really a lot of demand for Zen 3.

Really, though, if you're going to spend $700 on a video card, then $150 for a power supply to feed it isn't that outlandish.

Quizzical

Actually, I should add that you're not getting a new video card for a while.  The Ethereum miners are buying up anything with over 4 GB of memory, and that could continue for quite some time.

Iselin

Last year I went from a 24" 1080p to a 32" 1440p Freesync monitor and I couldn't be happier.

The pixel pitch of those two sizes and resolutions are the same so the transition was very easy for things like text readability (I have mild cataracts that need taking care of soon) but the resolution increase in games is noticeable not to mention totally eliminating screen tear thanks to nVidia's Gsync over Freesync.

It's also a great size for more immersive movie and TV streaming.

Asm0deus

Aethaeryn said:

...snip..

Yeah, I read recently that the blue light thing doesn't affect sleep at all.  It was one of those things that made sense based on other science but there wasn't an actual correlation when studied.  It could still mean less eye strain.  I have found by increasing the room lighting (more natural if possible) and turning down the brightness on my monitor has helped a lot.

Guessing you read that manchester UK stude done on mice or so.  Thing is you have to take those animal studies with a grain of salt as an animal may not react like a human etc.

The idea is that your circadian rhythms which are regulated by or depenadant your body producing melatonin which blue light does affect.  melatonin is a hormone the body secretes at nighttime when it dark out side so being subjected to light at night delays this and thus affects sleep.

 Studies have suggested that blue light is an especially powerful melatonin suppressant. Melanopsin, the pigment that helps eye cells assess light brightness, is particularly sensitive to shorter, cooler wavelengths like blue light, which some research says means blue light may affect the body more dramatically than other hues.

https://time.com/5752454/blue-light-sleep/

https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-light

Cuddleheart

I have a lower spec gaming laptop hooked up to my 4k TV and games run fine at 1080p.  I'll use it to get a game of You Don't Know Jack.  Someone mentioned scaling at 4k and that is a real problem.  I used to run 4k on my desktop setup and was spending time creating manifest files to make the UI readable on older apps.  Even the Epic game store still has scaling problems on my TV at 4k.

Cuddleheart

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Cuddleheart said:

I have a lower spec gaming laptop hooked up to my 4k TV and games run fine at 1080p.  I'll use it to get a game of You Don't Know Jack.  Someone mentioned scaling at 4k and that is a real problem.  I used to run 4k on my desktop setup and was spending time creating manifest files to make the UI readable on older apps.  Even the Epic game store still has scaling problems on my TV at 4k.

I'm using the Epic Game Store regularly with zero problems...

I can never get the left menu to show up.  Good for you?