When i saw it was going to be a third person game i immediately was skeptical figuring just another ARPG incoming.
Third person doesn't usually mean ARPG. When they're talking about those they usually call it isometric,
When they say third person they typically mean the standard over the shoulder MMO perspective.
If you look at the Studio's other games, which are ARPG's, it stands to reason this will also be an ARPG.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think they would have better luck trying to make a 3rd Person, Magic the Gathering MMORPG.
I mean, it will need to use the current ruleset of 5e, and truth be told, Neverwinter supposedly used that Ruleset and that game felt as copy-paste generic an MMO as one could get. Just an overall horrible game really, even had gender locked classes, which was deplorable for a D&D setting.
I mean, I wish them luck, but I really think it's going to be a bland shadow of what DDO put on the table, and just yet another painful lackluster game in a long line of video games that tried to capture D&D.
I thought D&D was the bland shadow to begin with.
You can't be the bland shadow when you were the Original.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
When i saw it was going to be a third person game i immediately was skeptical figuring just another ARPG incoming.
Third person doesn't usually mean ARPG. When they're talking about those they usually call it isometric,
When they say third person they typically mean the standard over the shoulder MMO perspective.
If you look at the Studio's other games, which are ARPG's, it stands to reason this will also be an ARPG.
No, it does not stand to "reason". In fact it stands to "conjecture based assumption", by you, that it will be an ARPG, but only that studio knows at this point. What facts are you basing this on?
Axonometric projection does not mean "ARPG" either. Baldur's Gate, Divinity:OS, Pillars of Eternity, and many other games, that aren't considered "ARPGs" are some form of projection (isometric, dimetric, trimetric, etc) or a 3D emulation of those. This weird compulsion gamers have with shoving games in crude genre titles and boxes drives me crazy. Third person just means behind the character or "over the shoulder" like Iselin said. Most MMOs are third person.
It could be an action RPG with "isometric projection", or it could not. It could be a lot of things. Instead of assuming why not wait and see what they have to show before asserting what is likely to happen with zero facts at all.
Not only that but ARPGs, which are all looter, fast action, hordes of mobs RPGs is about the least suitable gaming style for a D&D game.
Everyone making D&D licensed games is making party-based cRPGs such as Solasta, Baldurs Gate 3, etc.
I could see that type of game or an MMO but an ARPG true to the current D&D ruleset is a stretch.
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I think they would have better luck trying to make a 3rd Person, Magic the Gathering MMORPG.
I mean, it will need to use the current ruleset of 5e, and truth be told, Neverwinter supposedly used that Ruleset and that game felt as copy-paste generic an MMO as one could get. Just an overall horrible game really, even had gender locked classes, which was deplorable for a D&D setting.
I mean, I wish them luck, but I really think it's going to be a bland shadow of what DDO put on the table, and just yet another painful lackluster game in a long line of video games that tried to capture D&D.
I thought D&D was the bland shadow to begin with.
You can't be the bland shadow when you were the Original.
I beg to differ: D&D was always a haphazard design. A mishmash. A generation of game designers was born from trying to reconcile playing situations with the D&D framework.
But that's a different argument. ;-)
We'll eventually see what these designers do with the ideas. Vegas odds are against them, though.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
When i saw it was going to be a third person game i immediately was skeptical figuring just another ARPG incoming.
Third person doesn't usually mean ARPG. When they're talking about those they usually call it isometric,
When they say third person they typically mean the standard over the shoulder MMO perspective.
If you look at the Studio's other games, which are ARPG's, it stands to reason this will also be an ARPG.
No, it does not stand to "reason". In fact it stands to "conjecture based assumption", by you, that it will be an ARPG, but only that studio knows at this point. What facts are you basing this on?
It's a predicted outcome based on that studio's history and what games thy make.
It's very reasonable to wager that they will stick with what they are good at, or what has been successful for them in the past.
I mean, Sure, we could all just toss a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors as a means of wish fulfillment for what we would like to happen, nothing stopping you from doing that if that's what you want to do.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think they would have better luck trying to make a 3rd Person, Magic the Gathering MMORPG.
I mean, it will need to use the current ruleset of 5e, and truth be told, Neverwinter supposedly used that Ruleset and that game felt as copy-paste generic an MMO as one could get. Just an overall horrible game really, even had gender locked classes, which was deplorable for a D&D setting.
I mean, I wish them luck, but I really think it's going to be a bland shadow of what DDO put on the table, and just yet another painful lackluster game in a long line of video games that tried to capture D&D.
Perhaps it would be best if we had more in the way of detail to go on before we assume the worst. The track record for D&D MMOs is one good and one bad so far. It could go either way.
When i saw it was going to be a third person game i immediately was skeptical figuring just another ARPG incoming.
Third person doesn't usually mean ARPG. When they're talking about those they usually call it isometric,
When they say third person they typically mean the standard over the shoulder MMO perspective.
If you look at the Studio's other games, which are ARPG's, it stands to reason this will also be an ARPG.
No, it does not stand to "reason". In fact it stands to "conjecture based assumption", by you, that it will be an ARPG, but only that studio knows at this point. What facts are you basing this on?
It's a predicted outcome based on that studio's history and what games thy make.
It's very reasonable to wager that they will stick with what they are good at, or what has been successful for them in the past.
I mean, Sure, we could all just toss a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors as a means of wish fulfillment for what we would like to happen, nothing stopping you from doing that if that's what you want to do.
It's quite possible, and if so it wouldn't step overly much on the other D&D MMOs currently running. There is a good chance you're right.
I think they would have better luck trying to make a 3rd Person, Magic the Gathering MMORPG.
I mean, it will need to use the current ruleset of 5e, and truth be told, Neverwinter supposedly used that Ruleset and that game felt as copy-paste generic an MMO as one could get. Just an overall horrible game really, even had gender locked classes, which was deplorable for a D&D setting.
I mean, I wish them luck, but I really think it's going to be a bland shadow of what DDO put on the table, and just yet another painful lackluster game in a long line of video games that tried to capture D&D.
Perhaps it would be best if we had more in the way of detail to go on before we assume the worst. The track record for D&D MMOs is one good and one bad so far. It could go either way.
Right now, it's two flubbed ventures.
While DDO could have been a champ, it was riddled with legal problems between Mattel and Atari for it's first few years. Which is really sad, because the legal issues had nothing to do with Turbine, or DDO, directly, but they still got dragged into the crossfire and suffered for it.
Then you have that heinous failure of an MMO called Neverwinter, which was a dumpster fire that amounted to little more than a re-skinned generic MMO akin to TERA as opposed to having anything to do directly with D&D at all.
I'll be honest, if they can hit one out of the park, and make a good MMO based on the D&D ruleset, that feels like a game of Dungeons and Dragons, I would, no joke, fanboi squee at that shit.
But sadly, I'm a realist, and I don't think that's gonna happen.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Far too early to get excited, but an open world RPG is always a good starting point.
I'm not a particular fan of D&D admittedly. Never played any version of the tabletop game, so im missing experience of what it's truely all about.
But, I've read a lot of Dragonlance books, they're OK but extremely generic high fantasy. I've read a lot of the Forgotten Realms books, they're higher quality and Salvatore was great when it came to writing action scenes but still nothing overly special.
On the games front, all I can really say is that I feel the games based on the D&D ruleset feel pretty crap and limited. But, having not played the tabletop games, I can't say whether the issue is with the D&D rules, or the implementation of them in a computer game.
So, happy to just wait the next 5 years to see what this game actually turns out to be, assuming it ever reaches release.
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I think they would have better luck trying to make a 3rd Person, Magic the Gathering MMORPG.
I mean, it will need to use the current ruleset of 5e, and truth be told, Neverwinter supposedly used that Ruleset and that game felt as copy-paste generic an MMO as one could get. Just an overall horrible game really, even had gender locked classes, which was deplorable for a D&D setting.
I mean, I wish them luck, but I really think it's going to be a bland shadow of what DDO put on the table, and just yet another painful lackluster game in a long line of video games that tried to capture D&D.
I think they made a good choice. 5E is in the hotness zone right now. Strike while the iron is hot.
Far too early to get excited, but an open world RPG is always a good starting point.
I'm not a particular fan of D&D admittedly. Never played any version of the tabletop game, so im missing experience of what it's truely all about.
But, I've read a lot of Dragonlance books, they're OK but extremely generic high fantasy. I've read a lot of the Forgotten Realms books, they're higher quality and Salvatore was great when it came to writing action scenes but still nothing overly special.
On the games front, all I can really say is that I feel the games based on the D&D ruleset feel pretty crap and limited. But, having not played the tabletop games, I can't say whether the issue is with the D&D rules, or the implementation of them in a computer game.
So, happy to just wait the next 5 years to see what this game actually turns out to be, assuming it ever reaches release.
This reminds me of those reaction stories, like people reading Lord of the Rings, or playing WoW after already being very involved in the gaming community, and there is this sense of "This seems so bland, it's like everything else"
I personally never played WoW, but, one of my static, opted to finally give WoW a try, for the first time ever, about a year ago. And when I asked them about it, they said that It feels like everything else on the market, nothing special about it.
The same happens for D&D, It's the forerunner, so a lot of what we deal with in games today is based on the foundation that was set by D&D near to 50 years ago.
Now, if you have not played DDO or Neverwinter, I encourage you to give them both at least a try out and a look see. (Thankfully they are both F2P, so there is no outlay)
While I don't think Neverwinter is really anything relating to D&D ruleset, it does have a decent enough setting, I mean good grief, my dwarven warrior could not even use axes, he had to use swords with an Axe cosmetic over them. But, even with my fanboi rage, I will admit, It still is a fun setting to look at.
DDO, has a lot more that D&D feel, the rules are pretty close to how 3.x set things up, and the feel of running a campaign or doing modules, as opposed to playing an MMO, is spot on, right down to campy dungeon narration by people who sound more like geeks then people who have good narration voices.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
While it sounds good on paper and in theory, I never know until the game actually releases if I will be interested or not. Just taking a fantasy setting alone does not make it a fun game.
While it sounds good on paper and in theory, I never know until the game actually releases if I will be interested or not. Just taking a fantasy setting alone does not make it a fun game.
Agree and taking a DnD ruleset doesn't mean a damn thing either.Only the developer and the leads can make a game good...great or terrible ,no amount of tech or rule sets can do that for the devs. Typically what i have seen over the years is that when a developer wants to make mention of another popular IP or base it's game off of they are planning on selling us a CRAP game. Like WHY would you even need to mention DnD or Wow or EQ or TESO or ANY game?A new product should be able to sell itself on it's OWN merit without using some other popular brand to sell it.So imo it is a marketing strategy,no different than someone telling me Raph koster is making a game.IDC WHO is making a game,show me a great game and i am in,simple as that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
While it sounds good on paper and in theory, I never know until the game actually releases if I will be interested or not. Just taking a fantasy setting alone does not make it a fun game.
Agree and taking a DnD ruleset doesn't mean a damn thing either.Only the developer and the leads can make a game good...great or terrible ,no amount of tech or rule sets can do that for the devs. Typically what i have seen over the years is that when a developer wants to make mention of another popular IP or base it's game off of they are planning on selling us a CRAP game. Like WHY would you even need to mention DnD or Wow or EQ or TESO or ANY game?A new product should be able to sell itself on it's OWN merit without using some other popular brand to sell it.So imo it is a marketing strategy,no different than someone telling me Raph koster is making a game.IDC WHO is making a game,show me a great game and i am in,simple as that.
Ok. Good points.
But.
If a Company wants to use the D&D ruleset, they need to mention that they are using that system, and need to get the rights to do so.
After all, originally, D&D was nothing but a rule set for gamers to use to make campaigns and adventures with, hence why it was called "Tactical Rules Studio"
Also, if they plan to use a specific setting, they need to make sure that this is known, E: Raven loft, Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, Spell Jammers, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Etc, and they are required to put the advert on their product, that they are doing this, and have IP rights to back it up.
However, you are 100% correct, that just using that IP does not make a good game.
The only point of contention that I have, is if you are not going to use the D&D rule set, why the hell even bother using D&D to start with, I mean if you are not there to do fan service to the IP, why bother.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Unpopular opinion: DDO is fairly rubbish in both game play and monetization; hideous character models, and a boring core setting (Eberron). Neverwinter is a much better game while being saddled with even worse monetization.
Bring on any new D&D game. I've loved D&D since 1978 and so far 5th Ed seems to be the best since 1st and 2nd.
Eh, I mean, you would not be the first person to say that they liked Neverwinter over DDO, no doubt, you won't be the last.
I mean, I am sure Neverwinter was a great game to people that enjoy those cookie cutter Asian/Eastern Grinders that make their fame from dynamic combat and flashy graphics, for me, It felt like I was playing a cheap knock off TERA Clone, with far, far worse graphics and boring combat.
For me I have never been into that level of myopic simplistic gameplay of an MMO, even EQ1 gave more dynamic build options at launch than Neverwinter provided.
But, what do I know, given the popularity of such style of games, I have to embrace that there will be many that must like that kind of gameplay.
To each their own.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Unpopular opinion: DDO is fairly rubbish in both game play and monetization; hideous character models, and a boring core setting (Eberron). Neverwinter is a much better game while being saddled with even worse monetization.
Bring on any new D&D game. I've loved D&D since 1978 and so far 5th Ed seems to be the best since 1st and 2nd.
Eh, I mean, you would not be the first person to say that they liked Neverwinter over DDO, no doubt, you won't be the last.
I mean, I am sure Neverwinter was a great game to people that enjoy those cookie cutter Asian/Eastern Grinders that make their fame from dynamic combat and flashy graphics, for me, It felt like I was playing a cheap knock off TERA Clone, with far, far worse graphics and boring combat.
For me I have never been into that level of myopic simplistic gameplay of an MMO, even EQ1 gave more dynamic build options at launch than Neverwinter provided.
But, what do I know, given the popularity of such style of games, I have to embrace that there will be many that must like that kind of gameplay.
To each their own.
I thought both DDO and Neverwinter were great games in their own way. DDO used a better ruleset and implemented it in a way that I thought was true to form, giving an authentic D&D experience in a computer game. Amazing character customization, great level design, interesting incorpotaion of D&D "soft" skills like listen/taunting/jump etc, traps, narrated dungeons, real mage spells, and more. Even the combat system is amazing for a game of that era.
Neverwinter has better production value and the world/music/atmosphere really drag me into the D&D universe. However, the gameplay and character customisation and development feel nothing like "D&D" to me. That said, it has arguably the best action combat system of any mmo I have played and a lot of the game felt to me like a kind of third person Diablo, plus it originally had the dungeon building system which was pretty cool.
TDLR: DDO and Neverwinter are both really fun in their own way.
Unpopular opinion: DDO is fairly rubbish in both game play and monetization; hideous character models, and a boring core setting (Eberron). Neverwinter is a much better game while being saddled with even worse monetization.
Bring on any new D&D game. I've loved D&D since 1978 and so far 5th Ed seems to be the best since 1st and 2nd.
Eh, I mean, you would not be the first person to say that they liked Neverwinter over DDO, no doubt, you won't be the last.
I mean, I am sure Neverwinter was a great game to people that enjoy those cookie cutter Asian/Eastern Grinders that make their fame from dynamic combat and flashy graphics, for me, It felt like I was playing a cheap knock off TERA Clone, with far, far worse graphics and boring combat.
For me I have never been into that level of myopic simplistic gameplay of an MMO, even EQ1 gave more dynamic build options at launch than Neverwinter provided.
But, what do I know, given the popularity of such style of games, I have to embrace that there will be many that must like that kind of gameplay.
To each their own.
Wow, racist insults are all you've got? I must have struck a nerve.
Neverwinter was made by Cryptic an American company so the Asian insults are inaccurate and wrong.
Spare me, there was nothing racist or insulting in my post, that is how they make MMO's in Eastern/Asian nations, that is the style of game they like, Ergo, Aion, TERA, Linage, and many others. You can even see the influence in a lot of Western Development teams, like GW2, which is made by Arena Net, which is located in the Sates, is still highly influenced by Asian/Eastern designs, and it's rather obvious.
No different then say, things like, Power Rangers and Voltron, next will you make a fuss that if someone tells you Anime is an Asian/Eastern Comic style, that's racist?
DDO doesn't get much more simplistic or P2W with its "Reincarnation" mechanic. Players literally buy their way to the top.
If by P2W, you mean Play 2 Win, then you would be correct. Since the nature of Reincarnation is to keep playing the game with one character that can grow stronger with each life, the idea is to keep playing. I hear ESO and even FFXIV have adopted similar systems to this, if a bit less grindy.
Torval said: The D&D ruleset they employ is totally bastardized and mutilated to just to drive revenue and cash shop sales. A deep and diverse D&D game based on a modified 3rd Edition ruleset would be Neverwinter Nights, not DDO. DDO is literally one of the worst D&D game I've played, or at least the one I've liked the least due to those factors. A lot of people do like it and like you said, to each their own so there is no need to take my opinion so personally and insult other gamers or people groups over it.
I'm not saying Neverwinter is a great experience with the way PWE monetizes it, but the actual game play is a lot more interesting and engaging to me than DDO. Interesting factoid you may not know, but some former Turbine developers worked on Neverwinter.
So yeah, I'm happy to see a new attempt at a D&D game using 5th edition. The IP deserves a little better.
Very explosive post, LOL, touched a nerve have I?
Now, no dis, I thought TERA was a fun game for what I played, they were having an identity crisis when I started playing, if they wanted to be a sub game or go F2P at the time, and I didn't want to deal with that. But none the less, very dynamic combat, and the BAM's were impressive, truly amazing artistic quality, but also very Cookie Cutter, where classes were gender locked and gear was all class locked, which is highly indictive of that development style of MMO, made in Asian/Eastern countries. BDO being another fine example of such a system, and BDO is also a great game in it's own right.
With that said, I could not tell any real intrinsic difference between TERA and Neverwinter as far as playing the game went, it felt like they were carbon copies of each other, and since TERA came out years before, it legit felt like NeverWinter was a cheap reskin of TERA.
As far as playing the game went, there was absolutely nothing about Neverwinter that made me feel like I was playing a D&D game, nothing at all.
If they had set it in some other setting, like Norrath, Middle Earth, or generic fantasy world 01, or even Star Trek or Warhammer style art, it would have not made any difference, at all to the game.
As for the former Turbine employees that worked on Neverwinter, hopefully they were not given any position where they could screw things up, after all, they would be the clowns that made DDO an unoptimized pile of crap and somehow managed to make doors and mushrooms the same code.
As far as DDO, being the worst you played, well, if you are going to legit tell me that weapon/gear locked classes like what they have in Neverwinter, and TERA, and BDO, and a slew of other games, is makes a good D&D game, well, I can see how DDO didn't work for you.
Is what it is.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Would be nice to see a Dragonlance mmo, but I don't think the audience for that would be too big. My guess is either FR (good) or, and I hope not, Planescape.
Now how they design combat, that's the big question.
I liked combat in Neverwinter, but the ruleset wasn't D&D, couldn't tell the difference between any other MMO.
I dare them to use an AD&D 2nd edition ruleset for the game (or even 2,5), but I doubt it.
Comments
remember the good old days huh?
The only thing "AAA" means these days is Big Budget Mediocrity with more attention paid to Marketing than Development.
If you look at the Studio's other games, which are ARPG's, it stands to reason this will also be an ARPG.
You can't be the bland shadow when you were the Original.
Everyone making D&D licensed games is making party-based cRPGs such as Solasta, Baldurs Gate 3, etc.
I could see that type of game or an MMO but an ARPG true to the current D&D ruleset is a stretch.
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Didn't really see any ARPGs there.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But that's a different argument. ;-)
We'll eventually see what these designers do with the ideas. Vegas odds are against them, though.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
It's very reasonable to wager that they will stick with what they are good at, or what has been successful for them in the past.
I mean, Sure, we could all just toss a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors as a means of wish fulfillment for what we would like to happen, nothing stopping you from doing that if that's what you want to do.
Perhaps it would be best if we had more in the way of detail to go on before we assume the worst. The track record for D&D MMOs is one good and one bad so far. It could go either way.
It's quite possible, and if so it wouldn't step overly much on the other D&D MMOs currently running. There is a good chance you're right.
While DDO could have been a champ, it was riddled with legal problems between Mattel and Atari for it's first few years. Which is really sad, because the legal issues had nothing to do with Turbine, or DDO, directly, but they still got dragged into the crossfire and suffered for it.
Then you have that heinous failure of an MMO called Neverwinter, which was a dumpster fire that amounted to little more than a re-skinned generic MMO akin to TERA as opposed to having anything to do directly with D&D at all.
I'll be honest, if they can hit one out of the park, and make a good MMO based on the D&D ruleset, that feels like a game of Dungeons and Dragons, I would, no joke, fanboi squee at that shit.
But sadly, I'm a realist, and I don't think that's gonna happen.
I self identify as a monkey.
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I personally never played WoW, but, one of my static, opted to finally give WoW a try, for the first time ever, about a year ago. And when I asked them about it, they said that It feels like everything else on the market, nothing special about it.
The same happens for D&D, It's the forerunner, so a lot of what we deal with in games today is based on the foundation that was set by D&D near to 50 years ago.
Now, if you have not played DDO or Neverwinter, I encourage you to give them both at least a try out and a look see. (Thankfully they are both F2P, so there is no outlay)
While I don't think Neverwinter is really anything relating to D&D ruleset, it does have a decent enough setting, I mean good grief, my dwarven warrior could not even use axes, he had to use swords with an Axe cosmetic over them. But, even with my fanboi rage, I will admit, It still is a fun setting to look at.
DDO, has a lot more that D&D feel, the rules are pretty close to how 3.x set things up, and the feel of running a campaign or doing modules, as opposed to playing an MMO, is spot on, right down to campy dungeon narration by people who sound more like geeks then people who have good narration voices.
Typically what i have seen over the years is that when a developer wants to make mention of another popular IP or base it's game off of they are planning on selling us a CRAP game.
Like WHY would you even need to mention DnD or Wow or EQ or TESO or ANY game?A new product should be able to sell itself on it's OWN merit without using some other popular brand to sell it.So imo it is a marketing strategy,no different than someone telling me Raph koster is making a game.IDC WHO is making a game,show me a great game and i am in,simple as that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But.
If a Company wants to use the D&D ruleset, they need to mention that they are using that system, and need to get the rights to do so.
After all, originally, D&D was nothing but a rule set for gamers to use to make campaigns and adventures with, hence why it was called "Tactical Rules Studio"
Also, if they plan to use a specific setting, they need to make sure that this is known, E: Raven loft, Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, Spell Jammers, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Etc, and they are required to put the advert on their product, that they are doing this, and have IP rights to back it up.
However, you are 100% correct, that just using that IP does not make a good game.
The only point of contention that I have, is if you are not going to use the D&D rule set, why the hell even bother using D&D to start with, I mean if you are not there to do fan service to the IP, why bother.
I mean, I am sure Neverwinter was a great game to people that enjoy those cookie cutter Asian/Eastern Grinders that make their fame from dynamic combat and flashy graphics, for me, It felt like I was playing a cheap knock off TERA Clone, with far, far worse graphics and boring combat.
For me I have never been into that level of myopic simplistic gameplay of an MMO, even EQ1 gave more dynamic build options at launch than Neverwinter provided.
But, what do I know, given the popularity of such style of games, I have to embrace that there will be many that must like that kind of gameplay.
To each their own.
Neverwinter has better production value and the world/music/atmosphere really drag me into the D&D universe. However, the gameplay and character customisation and development feel nothing like "D&D" to me. That said, it has arguably the best action combat system of any mmo I have played and a lot of the game felt to me like a kind of third person Diablo, plus it originally had the dungeon building system which was pretty cool.
TDLR: DDO and Neverwinter are both really fun in their own way.
No different then say, things like, Power Rangers and Voltron, next will you make a fuss that if someone tells you Anime is an Asian/Eastern Comic style, that's racist?
Come off it.
If by P2W, you mean Play 2 Win, then you would be correct. Since the nature of Reincarnation is to keep playing the game with one character that can grow stronger with each life, the idea is to keep playing. I hear ESO and even FFXIV have adopted similar systems to this, if a bit less grindy.
Very explosive post, LOL, touched a nerve have I?
Now, no dis, I thought TERA was a fun game for what I played, they were having an identity crisis when I started playing, if they wanted to be a sub game or go F2P at the time, and I didn't want to deal with that. But none the less, very dynamic combat, and the BAM's were impressive, truly amazing artistic quality, but also very Cookie Cutter, where classes were gender locked and gear was all class locked, which is highly indictive of that development style of MMO, made in Asian/Eastern countries. BDO being another fine example of such a system, and BDO is also a great game in it's own right.
With that said, I could not tell any real intrinsic difference between TERA and Neverwinter as far as playing the game went, it felt like they were carbon copies of each other, and since TERA came out years before, it legit felt like NeverWinter was a cheap reskin of TERA.
As far as playing the game went, there was absolutely nothing about Neverwinter that made me feel like I was playing a D&D game, nothing at all.
If they had set it in some other setting, like Norrath, Middle Earth, or generic fantasy world 01, or even Star Trek or Warhammer style art, it would have not made any difference, at all to the game.
As for the former Turbine employees that worked on Neverwinter, hopefully they were not given any position where they could screw things up, after all, they would be the clowns that made DDO an unoptimized pile of crap and somehow managed to make doors and mushrooms the same code.
As far as DDO, being the worst you played, well, if you are going to legit tell me that weapon/gear locked classes like what they have in Neverwinter, and TERA, and BDO, and a slew of other games, is makes a good D&D game, well, I can see how DDO didn't work for you.
Is what it is.
Now how they design combat, that's the big question.
I liked combat in Neverwinter, but the ruleset wasn't D&D, couldn't tell the difference between any other MMO.
I dare them to use an AD&D 2nd edition ruleset for the game (or even 2,5), but I doubt it.