Here's Why Magic: Legends Stopped Referring To Itself As An MMO, According To Developer | MMORPG.com

System

Here's Why Magic: Legends Stopped Referring To Itself As An MMO, According To Developer | MMORPG.com

During our play session of Magic: Legends last week, I had the chance to talk about the ARPG with Principal Lead Designer Adam Hetenyi. During our session, I asked something that as been on my mind for quite a while regarding Legends: Why doesn't Cryptic refer to it as an MMO anymore?

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KaliGold

Back in early 2017, those of us who were deeply involved in Neverwinter first learned they were shifting resources away from Neverwinter and into another game. Sometime later we learned in was a new "AAA MMO" they were working on, or so they said.

We were really excited as we were looking for a replacement for Neverwinter which had become very stale. Of course, once the trailer and subsequent information came out, we knew it was no longer and MMO but an ARPG. When you have a game where the camera is mostly angled towards the ground, you are not an MMO in my mind.

You can imagine our disappointment at that that time. Nothing wrong with ARPG, but it can never be as immersive or appealing as a true MMO.

This game's market will be the MTG card players who would like to see their cards more fully visualized and the bored POE players.

There is alot on the line for Cryptic and Perfect World on this. Hopefully its a success and they can "circle back" to Neverwinter and remake that game proper.

Deathleecher

Neverwinter is just a lobby game, would not call it a true mmorpg.

and now we get this crap.

Wont support it

Po_gg

That was an interesting read...

I mean, I've been saying since the beginning it's a Diablo with M:tG skin, but felt always like an uphill battle.

Not even two months ago, Actually, last year, right here on this site, was an interview with Ricossa about how Legends really is an MMO and it's the genre and labels which are shifting, etc.

(https://www.mmorpg.com/interviews/magic-legends-exclusive-interview-with-executive-producer-stephen-ricossa-2000108997 

“The studio’s been in the MMO business for nineteen years, right? We were part of those kinds of paradigms." ...

That progression is a major part of what makes Magic: Legends an MMO, as the team is trying to “modernize” the MMO space. ...

Ricossa mentions that the industry itself is moving more towards the persistent online play, and, as he says, “from an MMO perspective, we’re moving towards established, exciting moment-to-moment gameplay to pair with our persistent progression systems.”)

So, they couldn't "modernize" the MMO space at the end, therefore just call it an ARPG now? Good

System said:

Cryptic is known for their MMO chops, developing both Star Trek Online and Neverwinter.

... and CO, why do you always leave Champions out? It's maybe their most honest game

AugustusG

Marvel Heroes whas a MMOARPG, if it's close I will love to play this game too. Even if it has only 6 players map. most of area in MH had no more than that, Doom, X-School... Plus my old magic the gathering colection is taking dust.

ultimateduck

Let's be honest. Whether they lied or shifted gears on what the focus the game is, whether it's an MMO mislabeled or an ARPG mislabeled or a letdown in terms of the game you expected, if it's a good game you will play it.

All this posturing about how you won't play it or support it because [insert personal problem justification here] is silly.

Kyleran

ultimateduck said:

Let's be honest. Whether they lied or shifted gears on what the focus the game is, whether it's an MMO mislabeled or an ARPG mislabeled or a letdown in terms of the game you expected, if it's a good game you will play it.

All this posturing about how you won't play it or support it because [insert personal problem justification here] is silly.

There's probably a lot of good games I've never played nor ever will because they do not meet my criteria for devoting my valuable and somewhat limited free time to.

Not an MMO drops it down quite a bit for me, but YMMV.

Nilden

It's three player co-op. Common frickin sense...

Dharkarai49

The whole card system with random abilities puts me off, i'll probably try out the BETA but i don't see myself liking it, everything else looks promising though.

Gobstopper3D

The fact that Perfect World is involved with it means I won't be touching it regardless of what it's classified as.

Theocritus

I enjoy fantasy worlds and I enjoy card games, but this kind of thing just never appealed to me.

Iselin

I bet you didn't know that Path of Exile is an MMO even though GGG is adamant that it is not:

"Path of Exile is a free-to-play persistent online action MMO from Grinding Gear Games..."

https://www.mmorpg.com/path-of-exile

Wizardry

An ARPG+MMO makes sense,lmao in what world?
ARPG are and ALWAYS have been SPAM fests,kill stuff so fast,why in the world would you need other players?
IMO ARPG"S have NOTHING to do with mmo's,they are simple mindless games that put more depth into the build than the game design or game play.

To be a legit MMO ,your game needs to cater to player interaction,working together or pvp if you must go down that shallow road.
Now this doesn't mean someone can't make a BETTER Arpg that doesn't have to copy cat Diablo,then sure you could have a MMOP but guess what,they ALL copy Diablo.

StoneRoses

Torchlight Frontier did the same thing! Oh wait PW...

Sovrath

Rhoklaw said:

Well, I know a lot of people might hate or disagree with me, but labeling never shifts.

I'm very certain history proves you wrong.

BruceYee

At different times in gaming history certain games came around at just the right time.

I kind of get the feeling this could be one of those times if they don't kill it with the cash shop.

Seeing/meeting people in some type of multiplayer environment is really one of the most important things for me in every game I play and it doesn't matter if that number is 6 or 1000.

Not being on Steam at the start though will prevent me from playing it though cause I'm can no longer stand having 15 different launchers it drives me nuts.

KnightFalz

KaliGold said:

When you have a game where the camera is mostly angled towards the ground, you are not an MMO in my mind.

Ultima Online is a MMORPG with a perspective much like you describe, so a game can't be dismissed as one simply due to that manner of presentation.

KnightFalz

Rhoklaw said:

Sovrath said:

Rhoklaw said:

Well, I know a lot of people might hate or disagree with me, but labeling never shifts.

I'm very certain history proves you wrong.

I'm very certain history proves that people would like to think they can make an apple an orange, but anyone with any logic and reasoning will still tell them to F off with that nonsense.

History proves that living languages aren't static. Some existing words change but retain their meaning, while others remain but their meaning expand or simply change over time. The faster a society changes the faster language adapts.

Labeling, like anything else in a living language, is subject to change.

KnightFalz

Po_gg said:

... and CO, why do you always leave Champions out? It's maybe their most honest game



I suppose that they feel games associated with Star Trek and D&D would have better name recognition than one with Champions, or perhaps bring in more revenue.

CO is usually only spoken of when the article is specifically about it.

What do you find dishonest of the other ones?

Aurorikin

That's fine, Ima still play this. I liked the alpha or whatever I played awhile back.

I just hope Corepunk stays an MMORPG

Po_gg

KnightFalz said:

CO is usually only spoken of when the article is specifically about it.

What do you find dishonest of the other ones?

I know, back in the days I used to send the CO event infos to Suzie, so those could get at least mentioned in the news section

About honesty, well... was a bad pick of word on my part there, but couldn't find a better one in the hurry. What I tried to say is something like most loyal, faithful, sticking to the roots and values.

Neverwinter was changed majorly at least twice, plus a bunch of moderate ones like the rework from Professions to Workshop, the two (bigger) companion reworks, removing SCA, removing Foundry, etc.

But the two big ones were the VIP addition (tilting the entire playfield) and Mod16 (enter forced scaling, and the gutting of classes, "streamline" the character building).

STO also had similar magnitude changes, the watering down of character building and traiting, the removal of Memory Alpha, put the top ships in lootboxes, scaling ships, mastery, recently the ship upgrade token, etc.

CO is the oldest game in their stable (not counting CoH, but that's not in their hands for a long time now), and still it's the one which is the closest to its original idea and spirit.

It too had changes, some annoying ones too, but not on the level of the other two, where the entire game (Neverwinter) or the endgame (STO) is now largely different from what it was originally.

(which could even be a good thing, changes aren't bad by default.

I admit it's just my personal taste but for me they both changed for the worse. Especially Neverwinter, since I loathe forced scaling.)

ultimateduck

Everyone seems so fixed in their opinion that they are acting like it's fact. As mentioned, UO is a MMO even though it played like a ARPG. Darkfall is a FPS playstyle and an MMO. Arcfall is an MMO much like UO. Some games, like Age of Conan, played like an MMO but were so heavily instanced they were anything but massively multiplayer.

Maybe stop pretending like you know it all or that your word is law.

Kyleran said:

ultimateduck said:

Let's be honest. Whether they lied or shifted gears on what the focus the game is, whether it's an MMO mislabeled or an ARPG mislabeled or a letdown in terms of the game you expected, if it's a good game you will play it.

All this posturing about how you won't play it or support it because [insert personal problem justification here] is silly.

There's probably a lot of good games I've never played nor ever will because they do not meet my criteria for devoting my valuable and somewhat limited free time to.

Not an MMO drops it down quite a bit for me, but YMMV.

Good is relative. If a game doesn't meet your criteria for being "good" then it isn't good for you and the point is moot.