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You are the game director for a spiritual successor to your favorite online game
Aeander
Member LegendaryPosts: 8,060
You are the head of a development studio that wants to create a proper successor to an online game you loved. What aspects of the original would you keep? What would you modernize to appeal to a new audience? What flaws of the original game would you fix? What new ideas would you realistically bring to make a bigger, better product, without undermining the spirit of the original? What artistic direction or change of setting might you take? If applicable, would the new game be based on a licensed IP (not the original source IP that you're making a spiritual successor to, which you do not have the rights to)?
For example, if I were to make a spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1...
What I'd prioritize keeping:
What flaws I would fix:
What I'd add to the formula
How I'd change the setting/themes
For example, if I were to make a spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1...
What I'd prioritize keeping:
Deep skill system utilizing small bar of 8-10 skills with hundreds of skills to choose from.
Dual classing.
Horizontal progression through cosmetics and hunting for skills/passives.
Tab target combat.
Enemies using the same skills available to players (though this needs to be balanced independently).
Build respecs being free, convenient, and instant outside of missions.
Fully instanced game design. There's simply challenge types and restrictions that aren't possible in an open world.
Dual classing.
Horizontal progression through cosmetics and hunting for skills/passives.
Tab target combat.
Enemies using the same skills available to players (though this needs to be balanced independently).
Build respecs being free, convenient, and instant outside of missions.
Fully instanced game design. There's simply challenge types and restrictions that aren't possible in an open world.
What flaws I would fix:
Poor story presentation. Deprioritize cutscenes during missions, prioritizing voiced dialogue during gameplay. When mid-mission cutscenes or visual story segments are required, render characters invulnerable and focus camera as needed.
Lack of interesting gear modifiers. This one needs to be handled in a "plug and play" method that is consistent with the philosophy of free and easy respects. I'd stick to runes that you can freely add and remove, without damaging the weapon or armor. Perhaps even allow you to insert an infinite number of runes in a weapon or armor, while only activating a limited number at once.
Lack of interesting gear modifiers. This one needs to be handled in a "plug and play" method that is consistent with the philosophy of free and easy respects. I'd stick to runes that you can freely add and remove, without damaging the weapon or armor. Perhaps even allow you to insert an infinite number of runes in a weapon or armor, while only activating a limited number at once.
What I'd add to the formula
Open patrol zones like those in Marvel Heroes or Destiny.
Passive class trait trees, which are also captured off bosses just like active skills. Would have a more expansive trait tree for your primary class.
Non-human playable races, but they would all use a human frame to share armor skins. Meaning humans, elves/drow, and sidhe would make for ideal candidates.
Passive class trait trees, which are also captured off bosses just like active skills. Would have a more expansive trait tree for your primary class.
Non-human playable races, but they would all use a human frame to share armor skins. Meaning humans, elves/drow, and sidhe would make for ideal candidates.
How I'd change the setting/themes
I'd move from dark age fantasy to a beautiful Italian Renaissance fantasy, emphasizing the art, culture, humanism, and burgeoning innovation of the period.
Post edited by Aeander on
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I would then release early an unoptimized, bug infested, "Legacy" version with promises to add more content later, after which I would call for an employee meeting in the parking lot and fire the employees.
But I guess this has all been done many times before.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Maybe a crossover to MOBA. large scale 50 vs 50 fights.
But I don't know how that stop people from afking in game though.
What do you think about gear affecting PvP performance? While at RvR.
I actually quit warhammer online when I maxed out my renown ranks. Because there is nothing to chase after.
I think almost all mmorpg have some sort of character progression to keep people playing. When people run out of things to chase, they are likely to quit.
Fair enough, but PvP should be about skill, about getting better. About outplaying your enemy, not outgearing him. PvP is the best when you feel like you accomplished something, against all odds. While RvR might feel like that, once you realize that you haven't done anything special, that it was your gear doing the heavy lifting...I don't know, for me it goes against everything PvP stands for.
But if they put standarized gear(like GW2), I wouldn't care either. I think most people playing RPG games like some sort of progression. Which really could be anything from gold, unlocks, or cosmetic.
The game i long dreamed for is already here but only 50% realized and that is Atlas.
Give me terraforming,change the stats and implementation ideas,add more content/assets and NO gear or level unlocks.You simply explore the world to find and learn magic/knowledge and find crafting recipes.Bosses would only be there to cause an annoyance,to keep you on your toes while traveling.Bosses would be treated like any other crerature in the world only a tougher foe.it would not be a case of farm bosses for the best mats and loot as crafting would take on a totally different form in my design.
My game would be ever growing,my team adding new harvests,new creatures etc etc.So the ongoing fee would be enough to keep a team improving the game with no expansion sales.
Would i somehow implement pvp,perhaps but i would never allow it to deter from the PVE game,it would take a back seat.My goal would be to get players to work together and not against each other.
Bottom line for me is that Atlas is the golden template,get a serious developer to take that template idea and make it AAA and that is the only game i need.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No levels to gain, food, gear and comfort are your levels!
get rid of the "skills 0-100" they are useless anyhow.
much shallower progression where the top player is only about 3-5 times as strong as an entry player.
each randomly generated world holds 200 players and room for 100 visitors ( 300 total) but is connected to other worlds like a honeycomb so you can move to 6 adjacent worlds ( as long as the portal is open/ aka world isnt full).
Different worlds have some differing rulesets enabled, like pvp or no pvp: full loot, one itemloot, no loot, different death penalties, resource distribution is different on each world. Some worlds your base can be destroyed and others it cant. If you leave a world for too long you lose certain protections on your bases if they have any. Differing challenge on each world, differing day and night cycles. Extra resources based on extra challege parameters. You can have waterworlds and desertworlds and iceworlds and everything in-between.
More biomes ( at least 20!) and not all worlds have all the biomes. Some worlds might only have one biome or all 20. Each biome has a particular material and enemies attached to it. Unlike valheim all materials are generally equal and all are useful in certain applications.
Rather than everything crafted instead there is pure crafted stuff and corrupted stuff which is partially crafted and partially found but when used in corrupted form gives penalties in addition to the bonuses. When you remake them and remove the corruption the bonuses diminish somewhat and the penalties dissapear.
multiple layers of procedurally generated fun that generates radially from the center with increasing challenge and complexity.
If you fall off the world you fall into a random new world. Good luck getting back.
I'm also thinking of additional changes I'd make, and one I keep coming back to is more skill shots. Not on a massive scale, but to give more mechanical players something to do beyond tab target combat; the only real show-off builds in GW1 are interrupters, afterall.
What I'd Keep:
What Flaws I Would Fix:
What I Would Add:
What I Would Change About The Theme:
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
hmm i guess the funny thing is i wouldn't change very much. the game seems to me to be fairly close to perpetual fun for me. but there are flaws:
What I'd prioritize keeping:
I would keep, realm lore, which is really good. It has a sort of Mediterranean lore feel to it, which is subtly different from lotr style lore. It hearkens back to early days of Charlemagne and Roland. It even has its own sustaining community European storytellers growing the lore.
The same combat and skill setup, which refinements as below.
Overall look and feel, with refinements as below.
What flaws I would fix:
Allow new players to be powered up to max level and join RvR within a day or so of playing. They are actually already working on this with their Squid Island updates.
I think the game engine itself is a bit clunky. The interface and buttons i guess are a bit sharp and unforgiving. But... im not really inclined to change too much. The smoothest combat ive found is in WoW. But nowadays i find WoW a bit spongy.
I would update the text size so it is larger on HD+ resolutions. But the games gfx and art is remarkably crisp and attractive for its age.
I would stop the clipping and make animations meld to sloping ground.
The game engine may not perform so well at 300v300v300+. Maybe revise/update it to handle that. it does 100v100v100 fairly well.
What I'd add to the formula
More abilities. The game draws its abilities as a subset of those found in games like NWN or mmos like DAOC. There are maybe 50 abilities for each class. I would bring in more abilities. NWN had maybe 100+ abilities for each class. PvP would have to be rebalanced.
More character classes. NWN had maybe 30+ classes. I would bring in Druid, the 6 or so Cleric variations, Bard, Paladin, Blackguard, Ranger, Assassin, Shadowdancer and so on. And cross classes too.
How I'd change the setting/themes
I wouldn't change much. I think the map would need to be larger. But my preference is to have multiple servers rather than growing the map. I prefer the ability of free travel between servers (each server with say 1,000+ players each would become its own instance..?)
I tend to prefer actually rolling back changes to earlier days. The game had a much stronger pvp balance in its earlier days. And its fort battles/capture formats were a bit more sophisticated. Earlier pvp though, had very powerful mage abilities, and wars could end up more jerky due to freeze spell fx (that's why they changed it). The fort cap simplification also was to help newer players jump in.
I am in favour of more stringent balancing of realm numbers. But this is very difficult to do (how do you account for afkers and grinders?). I think their Squid Island update can help deal with this. They already have instanced arenas, so players who prefer balanced teams can pick those. Personally I want to change those instanced arenas to random teams rather than pre-chosen teams.
Otherwise than the above,the game is quite fun for me.
Id make it so only i have an easy win button. That way i can win and not stagnate as a trash diamond player that im doing now.
J/k
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I suppose for game's like LOTRO and Wahammer Online the IP was largely the point of the thing, so I'll allow it. Though it lacks the flair of say... using the Warhammer IP for a Starcraft successor or using The Boys as an IP for a spiritual successor to InFamous.
I am interested in your comment saying RoR does not have true RvR. I wonder if Champions of Regnum is the only mmorpg (besides maybe DAOC?) with true RvR. In Regnum, there is only one map, the great majority of everyone is fighting for one thing. Everything a single player does, affects their realm's chances to win the ultimate goal: earning the Dragon Wish.
anyway. sorry for going off tangent on discussion.
DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) would be the base game.
Going to be honest, do not know anything about 5E, so, that would be an unknown if I would adopt that ruleset, ideally I believe for the IP to be obtained, it would need to be 5E or some homebrew variant of 5E. So.. since I am not sure how that system works, I will try to keep that out of the discussion.
What I would Keep:
Instance Dungeons:
The Core idea of the game being about the Dungeon Crawl with a few close friends.
Complex and engaging dungeons, that felt like an old school Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Crawl, with traps, mobs, hidden doors, puzzles, locks, keys, etc,.
All the thing that make you want to go at these quests with a balanced party to handle all the various challenges you will face, and all the things that made the game great, right down to the campy DM narration.
Monsters:
I would gather every monster from the DDO Books, and make them. Give them all the D&D Game abilities they are supposed to have in a common sense way.
IE: Fire Mephitis are Immune Fire but take extra damage from Ice. Iron Golems get Healed by Fire. You need Ghost Touch weapons to hit Ghosts. Rust Monsters Eat Metal. Oozes break apart and multiply when hit by blades. etc.
All the cool aspects and features of the Monsters would be put into the game, this is a KEEP by the way, in case anyone is asking, DDO already does this.
Races:
I love the Races and the fact that they each have their own boons and drawbacks. So this feature would be a Keep.
Classes:
Again, love how D&D set this up.. so a Keep. Also their whole Milti-class system, would be kept as well.
Armor and Weapons:
DDO has no restrictions on what someone can equip.
IE: anyone can pick up a greatsword and attack with it, even if they are not proficient with the weapon, Anyone can put on a chain shirt, even if they are not proficient with it.
So this feature of zero restrictions on what you can and cannot use, would be applied.
Equally so, DDO also puts in restrictions in other ways. IE: If you have monk levels and are not using Ki Weapons, you cannot use Monk Ki Abilities. You cannot evade in anything heavier than light armor, or with a shield larder than a small shield. Some shields & armors, and the like can also make spell casting harder for some classes. Etc, Etc.
So that system would be adopted into the game.
Selling Adventure Packs:
Modules are a Staple of the D&D game system. So, this system would be kept, where the game was sold in Modules, and other bits like that.
Of course with an optional Sub system, that gave access to all content.
Resource Management:
DDO is a Dungeon Running Resources Management game, as such that system would be kept, players would not have endless supplies, they have what they brought into the dungeon, and the goal would be to beat the quest with what they had. Just like the Table Top game.
Addition of Open World
All "Explorer Zones" would become Open World Zones, akin to GW2 style, and of course this would add all the junk that comes with that, like mounts, and what have you.
These would also not be Resource Management zones, players would heal naturally and recover abilities and spell points and what have you.
Underwater Combat:
Akin to GW2 Underwater Combat, Would be put into the game.
Loot:
Going to be honest, the endless stream of loot-gen is kinda of annoying, so this would be replaced with a solid viable crafting system, that could be started and used at level 1, to outfit yourself.
But since a lot of D&D games are about questing after some epic gear, I would break gear down into 3 groups.
Raid Gear:
Named Gear:
Crafted Gear:
There is just some joy in pulling your Sword of Shadows from a Dragons Chest, and that is something I would want to keep alive. Needing to haul about 40 other loot-gen junk swords just so you can sell them at the vendors.. that can die in a fire.
Graphics:
I would use Claymation or Cartoonish style graphics, ideally in the vein of Crowfall, that way they would age better as time went on, as DDO is an old game, and no joke, the graphics makes this abundantly clear, and that is a feature flaw I would like to remove, so the idea would be to make the graphics more timeless. But, also, keep is kind of cheesecake, because lets get real, D&D wall art was borderline softcore porn, so that too, is something I would try to work into the whole system.
This of course would also put a heavy sprinkling of Fashion Wars into the Loot System, because.. why not.
The Code:
Pretty much the whole game, all the code, all of it, just tossed and start from the ground up. DDO was poorly optimized from the start, and has only gotten worse over the years, so, the while core system, whatever it is built off, would need to be trashed, and a new better, more optimized system would need to be used.
The Setting:
Ebberon could have been a great setting. But ideally, I think would rather start the game in it's own Setting, and then build off into other settings via full Expansions.