The Saga of Pantheon's Development Thus Far

BazgrimTV

Hey all, 

I recently made a video which chronicles Pantheon's development process from day 1 until now. It's obviously been a long and sometimes confusing process., but I think now is a good time to zoom out and really take a look at the entire history - in hopes that we can collectively clear some things up: https://youtu.be/XVaSNE0zHjQ 

I understand that many people prefer reading over watching a video, so I also wanted to provide you all with a text-only version, which you can find in this google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PqhBekQxtG-g9oVHnWnicCgx7rl360M6YEcGZ2f44kI/edit?usp=sharing

On the last page of the doc, I included all the sources that I referenced in the making of this script, if you'd like to do some more digging on your own. I'm working on more ways to get information easily in the hands of the people who want it, but I figured this would be a good place to start.

If you’ve been following the game for a while, you may be able to think of some details, both good and bad, that I didn’t include in this summary. But for the sake of being concise, I decided to stick to the main events that have shaped the overall development path of Pantheon. I hope you learn something from it, and I hope that will allow for more productive conversation moving forward.

Baz

delete5230

Your doing great @BazgrimTV, love your channel too along with Nathans. 

But many are loosing the mojo at least for now.  I think most would agree will get a game someday, but for now words and a few videos are not cutting it.

My opinion,
What would work is a real game video, complete with a starting dialog log in screen, picking characters, cities and real players (lots of them) not just "loyal fans" logged into a program file.

In other words substance !


It's not just Pantheon Rise of the fallen.  The entire mmorpg industry is at a low, with a lot of false hopes and flops.... Visionary Realms would need to rise above the rest. Until then nothing else would work.

  

Shaigh

Good read on the development and when you read about it you realize why its taking so long, first the failed kickstarter, then losing most of the staff, then realizing they had to revamp everything and then the passing of Brad Mcquaid.

With so many stumbles its fascinating that they are still going but sadly its also taking them far too long to get this one completed and the momentum they once had has long faded.

Still hoping for the best.

Darksworm

Remember when this game was supposed to release in 2017?

Amazon has developed a whole MMORPG, which is pretty decent, basically during this delay. Buy to Play, no subscription, and with decent PvP. 

There will be no oxygen in the room by the time this thing launches, with titles like D4, OW2, PoE2, etc. on the horizon. Most people aren't single genre players, these days. 

They only have so much free time. 

I feel for the people still dumping money down this drain. 

Theocritus

I had pretty much forgot about it tbh.

Sovrath

Darksworm said:

Remember when this game was supposed to release in 2017?

Amazon has developed a whole MMORPG, which is pretty decent, basically during this delay. Buy to Play, no subscription, and with decent PvP. 

You're comparing a financial juggernaut to a ragtag crew of developers who had a failed Kickstarter, had to stop and redo their development direction, had the head of the company die and then they hired someone else who then streamlined the work they could do so they could continue on their shoestring budget?

Darksworm

Sovrath said:

Darksworm said:

Remember when this game was supposed to release in 2017?

Amazon has developed a whole MMORPG, which is pretty decent, basically during this delay. Buy to Play, no subscription, and with decent PvP. 

You're comparing a financial juggernaut to a ragtag crew of developers who had a failed Kickstarter, had to stop and redo their development direction, had the head of the company die and then they hired someone else who then streamlined the work they could do so they could continue on their shoestring budget?

No. I'm not. 

I'm just putting that into perspective. 

Their budget is not my or anyone else's fault. It simply isn't a factor. They've had more than enough time to get this out the door. 

Sovrath

Darksworm said:

No. I'm not. 

I'm just putting that into perspective. 

Their budget is not my or anyone else's fault. It simply isn't a factor. They've had more than enough time to get this out the door. 

That I cannot say.

I've had a Skyrim mod that I've mentioned and promised to released MONTHS ago. MONTHS!

Apparently, sometimes things work, and then for some g'damn reason they stop working and you have to find a fix, and then by fixing it you create other issues, or you play through it and realize that the flow doesn't work or make sense and you need to add a small bit, and then yadda, yadda, yadda I don't feel qualified to judge another creator's work on the idea that "they had more than enough time to get this out the door."

I strongly suspect their development has not been the most smooth or most professional but I'm not behind the scenes so I can't really say.

Ungood

Darksworm said:

Sovrath said:

Darksworm said:

Remember when this game was supposed to release in 2017?

Amazon has developed a whole MMORPG, which is pretty decent, basically during this delay. Buy to Play, no subscription, and with decent PvP. 

You're comparing a financial juggernaut to a ragtag crew of developers who had a failed Kickstarter, had to stop and redo their development direction, had the head of the company die and then they hired someone else who then streamlined the work they could do so they could continue on their shoestring budget?

No. I'm not. 

I'm just putting that into perspective. 

Their budget is not my or anyone else's fault. It simply isn't a factor. They've had more than enough time to get this out the door. 

Yes you are.

Try building a mansion with no money, and tell me how far you get in compairosn to someone who has endless funds.

Kyleran

What's more telling is this team struggles to find funding while every day I read stories of new studios opening with millions of dollars of funding before they have little more to show besides a web page.

Clearly their designs have no legs in the gaming space, heck, they even tried to sell some NFT and still fell flat on their face.

Ungood

Kyleran said:

What's more telling is this team struggles to find funding while every day I read stories of new studios opening with millions of dollars of funding before they have little more to show besides a web page.

Clearly their designs have no legs in the gaming space, heck, they even tried to sell some NFT and still fell flat on their face.

I wonder why that is, because I hear so much about how people want an old school game, and this seems to be exactly that.

TwoTubes

It seems clear that investors are reluctant to back games  with a purely sub model.  Playing the long game is not something that encourages investment.

Theocritus

Kyleran said:

What's more telling is this team struggles to find funding while every day I read stories of new studios opening with millions of dollars of funding before they have little more to show besides a web page.

Clearly their designs have no legs in the gaming space, heck, they even tried to sell some NFT and still fell flat on their face.

How does someone fail at selling NFTs? Isnt that like a gimme nowadays?

Mykell

Kyleran said:

What's more telling is this team struggles to find funding while every day I read stories of new studios opening with millions of dollars of funding before they have little more to show besides a web page.

Clearly their designs have no legs in the gaming space, heck, they even tried to sell some NFT and still fell flat on their face.

I'd say more and more money is going into mobile gaming because you get way more bang for your buck as an investor. Covid has been a boon for mobile gaming as its helped drive more people into its gaming space that might never have played games much before.

I've seen this first hand myself and there are plenty of people susceptible to what amounts to online gambling imo. Its particularly bad with older people new to gaming. I've seen retirees spending thousands trying to keep up with the mega whales and who knows if they can actually afford it.

Dullahan

Darksworm said:

There will be no oxygen in the room by the time this thing launches, with titles like D4, OW2, PoE2, etc. on the horizon. Most people aren't single genre players, these days.

Few people have ever played a single genre outside of those who play one for a living.

When a good game comes out, people play other ones less. They might even play nothing but that game. I know its hard to imagine, but that speaks more to the type of games available than it does to the some sociological shift.

Darksworm

Dullahan said:

Darksworm said:

There will be no oxygen in the room by the time this thing launches, with titles like D4, OW2, PoE2, etc. on the horizon. Most people aren't single genre players, these days.

Few people have ever played a single genre outside of those who play one for a living.

When a good game comes out, people play other ones less. They might even play nothing but that game. I know its hard to imagine, but that speaks more to the type of games available than it does to the some sociological shift.

Correct.

When a good game COMES OUT.

Almost a year later, and they're still treading water - basically at the same pre-Alpha stage of development.

These excuse manufacturing posts are not going to age well.  It's time people come to terms with the disappointment they are inevitably going be forced to deal with; as this game releases into irrelevance - assuming it releases at all.

The market segment this game is aimed at is aging out of the market.  These developers were talking about a late 2017 release years ago.  They aren't even at Alpha testing, and it's almost 2023.  This know this, and this is why they were trying to hard to shift development targets.

Are people really this gullible, or desperate for one last crack at nostalgia?

Amazon has developed and released an entire MMORPG WITHIN development window of this game, and did the smart thing by releasing it and then aggressively updating it since these are all basically live services, anyways.  Diablo 4 will likely go through its entire development cycle before this game sees the light of Day.  We might even have ArcheAge 2 before this game is even a Beta.

This isn't an issue exclusive to this game, either.  Look at Camelot Unchained: Beta 1 in July 2018, but still no release date in sight, almost 4.5 years later.

This crowdfunding of MMORPG game development simply a viable model of developing and delivering products like this.  Most of these games get stuck in development hell and never see the light of day, or they release and die relatively quickly...

They are a waste of investment, and IMO end-users should not be funding them.  Let the venture capitalists deal with it.  Don't waste your hard earned cash on a dream.  Statistically speaking, the odds are NOT in your favor.

Adamantine

All quiet on the western front.

Scot

Adamantine said:

All quiet on the western front.

That only took four years mate, this is a MMORPG we are talking about.

EQBallzz

For a long time I had high hopes this game would release as the spiritual successor of Everquest. Sadly, it appear to be releasing as the spiritual prequel of Crowfall.