Corepunk is thinking of having PvE servers.

cheyane

I read this in Massively that Corepunk developers are floating this idea.

I don't get this the game was ground up developed as a PvP game but now they are thinking of adding a PvE server and give the PvE players what, some half ass game with very little PvE content. Look developers if you develop a PvP game ground up don't try to be greedy and include PvE players with half baked content you cannot afford to spend any time on. 

https://massivelyop.com/2021/05/03/corepunk-is-finally-considering-pve-servers-plans-multiple-closed-betas/

Albatroes

I guess I'm the only one who thought the game looked like it was originally designed to be a moba, then the devs just decided to pivot and make it into a 'mmorpg' since mobas aren't 'in' anymore. Pretty much has all the moba tropes still in place: fog of war, characters, camps, etc.

cheyane

That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.

RexKushman

cheyane said:

That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.

Some of us PVEers don't really care for story and lore either, just give me plenty of dungeons, world bosses, non instanced and fully customizable housing, and robust trading features and I'm a happy camper. These days I prefer to make my own stories and goals in games rather than the tired, rehashed ideas found in pretty much everything.

cameltosis

RexKushman said:

cheyane said:

That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.

Some of us PVEers don't really care for story and lore either, just give me plenty of dungeons, world bosses, non instanced and fully customizable housing, and robust trading features and I'm a happy camper. These days I prefer to make my own stories and goals in games rather than the tired, rehashed ideas found in pretty much everything.

I'm with you on this, I really couldn't care less about stories and quests. I just need some interesting (deep) mechanics and a cool world to explore and do stuff in.

For example, im playing ARK at the moment, but playing it single player. Never seen another real person, not had a single quest, and the player progression was over and completed pretty damn quickly. But, I've easily had 200+ hours into that game because there are enough mechanics to keep things interesting, and the player building stuff gives me some really long term things to work towards.

Kyleran

So let me get this straight.

PVP game developers ask their followers if anyone is interested in PVE only servers in addition to the planned PVP servers and the PVE crowd gets all riled over the suggestion?

What am I missing? Shouldn't the outrage be coming from disenchanted PVP players? 

OK, sure, it won't have a lot of PVE content but if there are enough players interested in such an environment "as is" I don't see the harm, at least not from a PVE player's perspective.

Ungood

Kyleran said:

So let me get this straight.

PVP game developers ask their followers if anyone is interested in PVE only servers in addition to the planned PVP servers and the PVE crowd gets all riled over the suggestion?

What am I missing? Shouldn't the outrage be coming from disenchanted PVP players? 

OK, sure, it won't have a lot of PVE content but if there are enough players interested in such an environment "as is" I don't see the harm, at least not from a PVE player's perspective.

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

BruceYee

100% YES add PVE servers.

Think Albion w/ PVE only server then that game would have something for everyone.

Kyleran

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?

Scorchien

BruceYee said:

100% YES add PVE servers.

Think Albion w/ PVE only server then that game would have something for everyone.

If you want Albion but PVE server , just play UO and stay in Trammel , Its a far superior experience in that respect anyway ..

Theocritus

RexKushman said:

cheyane said:

That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.

Some of us PVEers don't really care for story and lore either, just give me plenty of dungeons, world bosses, non instanced and fully customizable housing, and robust trading features and I'm a happy camper. These days I prefer to make my own stories and goals in games rather than the tired, rehashed ideas found in pretty much everything.

I don't even read the quests or the lore usually.....

Kyleran

tzervo said:

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?

Because if there is not enough content and/or systems developed for it PVE players will get bored and move on (see Legends of Aria, Worlds Adrift, Population Zero). Naval Action for example has both server types. Its biggest attraction is the big nation vs nation naval battles and dev focus is on that. The PVE server has no faction warfare so it is much less populated than the PVP server.

Still, Corepunk just having fog of war or karma/bounties does not suddenly make it a PVP-oriented game. How is the economy? Territory/faction warfare? Other PVP content or systems?

It really depends on what kind of content the game will have and what they will keep focusing on post launch. From here:

COREPUNK | faq

they say that killing another player rewards you with Honor points that you can use to get gear. If they are focused on that aspect and design then just tacking on a PVE server won't work. If they focus on quests, open world mobs or other systems that are not exclusive to PVP then it could.

Near as I recall, all three examples mentioned added PVE after being largely abandoned by their PVP backers first.

Sometimes there's no saving a bad game.

Ungood

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?

The real reason is mainly because only one can be the money maker.

I know that sounds cliché but at the end of the day, the two groups mainly want nothing to do with each other, and one of them will be the bread winners for the game. If the studio is big enough to appease both groups (Haven't seen this one happen yet, maybe WoW did it?) where they can build content for both of them, so they both feel valuable, and important, but at the end of the day, most studio's will see one group provide the most population and money, and start making things for them.

If that is the PvP group, they will revise mechanics, put in content, and things for PvP players into the game, that are just for PvP, and thus the PvE players will feel neglected, and thus runs the risk of driving them off, and getting a slew of bad press in the process.

The same holds true if the PvE players are the money makers, and content for PvE gets made and the PvP players will feel neglected, and move off, tossing a slew of bad press in the process.

Even games like GW2, that had PvP game modes, their was a lot of feelings by the PvP community that they were being left to the wayside, and I have to agree with them that their game mode was mainly neglected while PvE mode was getting constant updates. So it was to the surprise of no one that the PvP game modes started to decline in population, and while those players were leaving, they made a legitimate gripe that Anet treated them like second class players.

This is a risk they take when they play these games. And while it may sound good on paper, to get more people, it is not so great in application.

Cuddleheart

Scorchien said:

BruceYee said:

100% YES add PVE servers.

Think Albion w/ PVE only server then that game would have something for everyone.

If you want Albion but PVE server , just play UO and stay in Trammel , Its a far superior experience in that respect anyway ..

I remember people having the same gripes as this thread when Trammel was announced...if I also remember, it led to a mass migration to pve and the UOs biggest boom period it ever had...

Kyleran

tzervo said:

Plus from the MOP article:

when the Corepunk team seemed to assert that all of its servers would contain world PvP, despite acknowledging that many players would not want that. Fortunately, now it seems that strong consideration is being given to PvE-only servers to those who want them.

They have the data, maybe they found out that their target playerbase is more PVE-oriented than PVP-oriented and they want to switch their focus a la New World.

I think there is a difference between offering PVE servers (largely as-is) vs promising to deliver a PVE game such as New World chose to do, sacrificing the original PVP vision in the process.

As mentioned, difficult to serve two masters and quite often even if the game starts off fairly well balanced between the two play modes it isn't very long before the PVP content begins to suffer, as evidenced by GW2, ESO and even WOW.

I recall when DAOC opened up a couple of FFA PVP servers they took off like gangbusters but it wasn't long before they closed one and finally the other due to a lack of interest by the players along with a lack of support by the dev team.

Iselin

PvE, PvP or both I can't stand the top down view for MMOs. That makes this a non-starter for me right there.

It's fine for me in ARPGs and turn-based CRPGs so I'm not sure why I find it such a turn off when MMOs do this, but I do... so sue me

Iselin

tzervo said:

 Turn-based, there is no game that stands out.

Quite a few actually. The original Baldur's Gate and quite a few good games it spawned (Neverwinter, Wasteland. Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Xcom, etc.) Top down / Isometric is their standard PoV.

Mendel

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?

It comes across as covering the white panel van with colorful, happy artwork, but still saying "Come inside, kid.  Here's some candy."  You could also work in a "wolf in sheep's clothing" reference if you like.  Here's mine.

Here, buy this game.  It's not for you; you won't like it.  It's not complete and there's not much for you to do.  But we really do need your money.  Desperately.  While you're here, maybe you'd like to graze in that nice, lush glade over there.  What?  No one has seen a wolf around here in generations.  Those "Enter at Own Risk" signs?  You'll be perfectly okay if you've had or even thought of having a tetanus shot.  If not, check out our fully stocked cash shop.

Kyleran

Mendel said:

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?

It comes across as covering the white panel van with colorful, happy artwork, but still saying "Come inside, kid.  Here's some candy."  You could also work in a "wolf in sheep's clothing" reference if you like.  Here's mine.

Here, buy this game.  It's not for you; you won't like it.  It's not complete and there's not much for you to do.  But we really do need your money.  Desperately.  While you're here, maybe you'd like to graze in that nice, lush glade over there.  What?  No one has seen a wolf around here in generations.  Those "Enter at Own Risk" signs?  You'll be perfectly okay if you've had or even thought of having a tetanus shot.  If not, check out our fully stocked cash shop.

You are over thinking my point.

Devs: we are making a pvp only game.

PVE players: The developers suck!

OK, anyone interested in a PVE server?

PVE players: The developers suck!

PVP players: The developers suck!

Where is the win scenario here?

Kyleran

I'm thinking the best answer is

Devs: Screw it all, let's just spend the rest of the money on some hookers and blow and call it a day.

Ungood

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.

See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?

It comes across as covering the white panel van with colorful, happy artwork, but still saying "Come inside, kid.  Here's some candy."  You could also work in a "wolf in sheep's clothing" reference if you like.  Here's mine.

Here, buy this game.  It's not for you; you won't like it.  It's not complete and there's not much for you to do.  But we really do need your money.  Desperately.  While you're here, maybe you'd like to graze in that nice, lush glade over there.  What?  No one has seen a wolf around here in generations.  Those "Enter at Own Risk" signs?  You'll be perfectly okay if you've had or even thought of having a tetanus shot.  If not, check out our fully stocked cash shop.

You are over thinking my point.

Devs: we are making a pvp only game.

PVE players: The developers suck!

OK, anyone interested in a PVE server?

PVE players: The developers suck!

PVP players: The developers suck!

Where is the win scenario here?

The Win is:

Dev: We are making a PvP Game.

PVE Players: The Developers Suck.

Dev's: and fuck you too.. we are making a PvP game.

This works the other way as well:

Dev: We are making a PvE Game.

PvP Players: The Developers Suck.

Dev's: and fuck you too.. we are making a PvE game.

cheyane

This is a small development team and they do not have the resources Amazon has. This will probably interfere with the development of and the quality of the PvP content and once again PvPers will blame yet another game PvE players has managed to destroy.

They are stretched thin so why even consider this. 

Kyleran

cheyane said:

This is a small development team and they do not have the resources Amazon has. This will probably interfere with the development of and the quality of the PvP content and once again PvPers will blame yet another game PvE players has managed to destroy.

They are stretched thin so why even consider this. 

While I agree with your assessment regarding focusing limited resources on one path, I've often been told I'm not a game developer so what do I know?

OscarBrowne

is this for real? isn't it PvP?