It doesn’t. Btc doesnt even use a sliver of energy compared to the banking systems and it never sleeps and you are in total control of what you own. If you’re truly interested then invest the time in educating yourself. Speculating and making up fake numbers means nothing.
Total control?
You mean - the exchanges are in total control of what you own. And you are at their mercy...
If you were in total control, something like bitcoin theft wouldn't be possible. yet it happens... quite a bit actually.
This is ignorance. I have 100% total control. Don’t leave your Bitcoin on an exchange. It cannot be confiscated and cannot be stolen. Ever.
You have total control of your bitcoin so long as you never make a mistake. If you make a mistake that allows someone to steal it, it's gone and you can't get it back. If you forget a password or otherwise lose access to your bitcoin, then no one took it from you, but you can't get it back yourself. If you abruptly die and no one else had access to your bitcoin, then it's not inheritable and no one else gets it.
I don't like financial products that are that easily lost. If I forget some information about my bank account, I can go to a bank, show ID to prove who I am, and recover it. I can similarly recover it if I lose information about various other investments. If I abruptly die, my major assets can be inherited by chosen beneficiaries. And that's important, because I know that sometimes I do make mistakes.
But while you can keep control of your bitcoin provided that you never make a mistake, you can't force anyone else to pay you anything for it. If the rest of the world figures out that bitcoin is worthless and no one will give you anything for your bitcoin, then you still have total control of it, but can't actually do anything with it other than give it away. And a major government that sets out to kill bitcoin could make that happen very quickly if so inclined. You'll still have total control of your bitcoin, but that won't matter at all.
It doesn’t. Btc doesnt even use a sliver of energy compared to the banking systems and it never sleeps and you are in total control of what you own. If you’re truly interested then invest the time in educating yourself. Speculating and making up fake numbers means nothing.
Total control?
You mean - the exchanges are in total control of what you own. And you are at their mercy...
If you were in total control, something like bitcoin theft wouldn't be possible. yet it happens... quite a bit actually.
This is ignorance. I have 100% total control. Don’t leave your Bitcoin on an exchange. It cannot be confiscated and cannot be stolen. Ever.
You have total control of your bitcoin so long as you never make a mistake. If you make a mistake that allows someone to steal it, it's gone and you can't get it back. If you forget a password or otherwise lose access to your bitcoin, then no one took it from you, but you can't get it back yourself. If you abruptly die and no one else had access to your bitcoin, then it's not inheritable and no one else gets it.
I don't like financial products that are that easily lost. If I forget some information about my bank account, I can go to a bank, show ID to prove who I am, and recover it. I can similarly recover it if I lose information about various other investments. If I abruptly die, my major assets can be inherited by chosen beneficiaries. And that's important, because I know that sometimes I do make mistakes.
But while you can keep control of your bitcoin provided that you never make a mistake, you can't force anyone else to pay you anything for it. If the rest of the world figures out that bitcoin is worthless and no one will give you anything for your bitcoin, then you still have total control of it, but can't actually do anything with it other than give it away. And a major government that sets out to kill bitcoin could make that happen very quickly if so inclined. You'll still have total control of your bitcoin, but that won't matter at all.
If you leave your fiat in a bank it's their money. It can be confiscated, frozen, siezed, stolen, garnished. Worse than bitcoin in an exchange. If you take your cash out of the bank it can still be seized, stolen, confiscated, etc. Bitcoin cannot.
He claimed with bitcoin you were at the whim of an exchange. I prove him wrong and you bring in banks? That's circular logic. If you want the convenience of a bank then by all means leave your bitcoin in one. You will never get the security of bitcoin with cash.
Can't force anyone to buy anything, that's a moot point. Wonder why the cost of everything goes up? Because the value of that precious dollar keeps going down. You can't force someone to take the dollar either.
The benefit of bitcoin is the block chain. It's estimated there are 6~7% errors in bank bookkeeping. There are 0 with bitcoin since it's founding. Banks are looking to further utilize block chain as a result, which may happen this decade; although some people benefit from the errors in the banking system. Bitcoins other advantage is that it cannot be seized like Gold.
Elon is a tool and is under investigation by the SEC, and he seems to be flaunting is ability to fluctuate crypto prices. Just another rich guy pandering to the underdog for street cred who thinks hes untouchable; until he's not.
The benefit of bitcoin is the block chain. It's estimated there are 6~7% errors in bank bookkeeping. There are 0 with bitcoin since it's founding. Banks are looking to further utilize block chain as a result, which may happen this decade; although some people benefit from the errors in the banking system. Bitcoins other advantage is that it cannot be seized like Gold.
This, and there is much misinformation in this thread. @ChildoftheShadows is right about a bit more then people give him credit for here too.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The benefit of bitcoin is the block chain. It's estimated there are 6~7% errors in bank bookkeeping.
Source for this?
I might be able to believe that banks did a lot of errors back in the history when people used cheques, but nowadays with electronic transactions the errors are really rare, and even when some error happens it's usually with the payment processor not with the bank.
Price is just noise, especially in a nascent digital assets market. The masses should learn what an atrocity PoW is and if comments by a celebrity is what it takes, so be it.
There are much better technologies now than the outdated PoW. The market will show the real winners only in the long term. I made my bet against BTC, ETH and the rest of PoW assets almost 6 years ago. So far so good.
Aaaaaa... ETH is Proof of Stake (PoS) but yeah w/e lol
The benefit of bitcoin is the block chain. It's estimated there are 6~7% errors in bank bookkeeping.
Source for this?
I might be able to believe that banks did a lot of errors back in the history when people used cheques, but nowadays with electronic transactions the errors are really rare, and even when some error happens it's usually with the payment processor not with the bank.
Yeah, but the bank is litterally shaving your dollar on every transaction, investing your dollar, and giving you fees on top of that!
Price is just noise, especially in a nascent digital assets market. The masses should learn what an atrocity PoW is and if comments by a celebrity is what it takes, so be it.
There are much better technologies now than the outdated PoW. The market will show the real winners only in the long term. I made my bet against BTC, ETH and the rest of PoW assets almost 6 years ago. So far so good.
Aaaaaa... ETH is Proof of Stake (PoS) but yeah w/e lol
You guys do follow the news, Elon Musk makes a few tweets... and poof... crypto dives by 20% and more... seems like a smart currency if one guy's tweets can do that.
For the proclaimed smartest business man/pioneer in the world, a lot of stupid falls out of his mouth.
This is a wrong perspective. Blockchain is a revolutionary invention which will inevitably change people's lives.
Bitcoin (BTC) itself has no place in the future as it has what are probably the worst tech stats from all the digital assets currently in existence (transactions per second / scalability, cost of transactions, speed of transactions, environmental footprint, etc..). Even a meme coin like Doge has better stats than BTC.
The reason why BTC has not died yet is that there are powerful stakeholders lobbying for it and funding its marketing. Sometimes it is funny watching them desperately spinning logic and creating new narratives why Bitcoin is needed. The white paper refers to it as a peer to peer payments network, but when it failed in this use case, they quickly came up with the "store of value" and "digital gold" bullshit. They also claim that its electricity consumption supports global push towards renewables. Some even claim that Bitcoin is storing energy.
Anyway, as I said before, long term, the market will sort all this out.
This is a wrong perspective. Blockchain is a revolutionary invention which will inevitably change people's lives.
Bitcoin (BTC) itself has no place in the future as it has what are probably the worst tech stats from all the digital assets currently in existence (transactions per second / scalability, cost of transactions, speed of transactions, environmental footprint, etc..). Even a meme coin like Doge has better stats than BTC.
The reason why BTC has not died yet is that there are powerful stakeholders lobbying for it and funding its marketing. Sometimes it is funny watching them desperately spinning logic and creating new narratives why Bitcoin is needed. The white paper refers to it as a peer to peer payments network, but when it failed in this use case, they quickly came up with the "store of value" and "digital gold" bullshit. They also claim that its electricity consumption supports global push towards renewables. Some even claim that Bitcoin is storing energy.
Anyway, as I said before, long term, the market will sort all this out.
Actually, my own opinions aren't far off from this.
BTC is about as inefficient a medium you can get for financial transactions. Blockchain, however, isn't a bad idea. BTC is just a very poor implementation of it.
I have no problem with people who want to invest in BTC, or any other cypto. That isn't really any different than someone investing in anything else - there's a risk, you buy some shares, maybe you come out ahead when you sell them again.
For all those people who dream about making something from nothing - nothing that claims to work that way lasts for very long. Some people may get out, but the vast majority will pay dearly for trying.
As Deathkon1 said - you want money, get a job or start a business. No one ever looked down on someone for working hard. The only ones who will come out ahead on BTC will be the rich who rig the system and the con artists who started it all.
The benefit of bitcoin is the block chain. It's estimated there are 6~7% errors in bank bookkeeping.
Source for this?
I might be able to believe that banks did a lot of errors back in the history when people used cheques, but nowadays with electronic transactions the errors are really rare, and even when some error happens it's usually with the payment processor not with the bank.
Yeah, but the bank is litterally shaving your dollar on every transaction, investing your dollar, and giving you fees on top of that!
I like being my own bank.
The various financial institutions that I deal with do take a small percentage of my money. In exchange for that, the rest of it is readily available to spend where and when I want to spend it without being at meaningful risk of being stolen. And as far as investments go, the money is growing much faster than the rate at which fees are taken out, making it highly probable that it will be available for me years or decades from now when I need it. If you keep your money in paper currency or bitcoin or whatever, then it's very easy to get it catastrophically stolen.
Price is just noise, especially in a nascent digital assets market. The masses should learn what an atrocity PoW is and if comments by a celebrity is what it takes, so be it.
There are much better technologies now than the outdated PoW. The market will show the real winners only in the long term. I made my bet against BTC, ETH and the rest of PoW assets almost 6 years ago. So far so good.
Aaaaaa... ETH is Proof of Stake (PoS) but yeah w/e lol
Aaaaaa...it is not but yeah w/e lol
Fair enough youre right for 2 more months.
Ethereum has been just about to go proof of stake ever since 2019, but it keeps getting delayed. I wouldn't bet on the most recent delay being the last.
Any inefficiencies Bitcoin has is due to its security. All of the other coins that claim to be more 'eco friendly' are vulnerable and worse at the whim of the developers. Eth and many others have been attacked and hacked. Not Bitcoin. It can't.
Regardless, it's still many times more efficient and energy friendly than gold. Even with it's limited transactions, it still uses less energy than the banking system.
And this is without anything else to go long with it.
Enter second/third layer technology. The lightning network currently transacts on a secure layer above the main blockchain, still secured by the main blockchain, and is capable of a thousand+ transactions per second with near zero cost. Lightning as it stands solves the inefficiency problems, but it's just the beginning.
A 51% attack in Bitcoin involves hardware and electricity costs. You get effectively one shot and you lose it.
All the other crypto methods cost nothing. Proof is stake? The richest gets the highest vote and it costs nothing too get there.
The reason people begin to promote btc in such fashion is because they realize that you cannot sacrifice base later security for convenience and proof of work is the only truly decentralized method.
I don’t dislike other cryptos though. I just don’t think they should be considered as a monetary system. The only one I feel can is nano because that is it’s only purpose. Unfortunately they’re moving away from using nodes, thus becoming less decentralized.
Ethereum for example has an unlimited supply (bad) and can be altered by the developers (insanity). They’ve already reversed a smart contract that was going to lose them tons of eth. So imo it has already lost all credibility as a monetary system simply because that’s possible. Now as a computing system it could be great (reversal is still a problem).
A 51% attack in Bitcoin involves hardware and electricity costs. You get effectively one shot and you lose it.
All the other crypto methods cost nothing. Proof is stake? The richest gets the highest vote and it costs nothing too get there.
The reason people begin to promote btc in such fashion is because they realize that you cannot sacrifice base later security for convenience and proof of work is the only truly decentralized method.
Calling name’s doesn’t change facts.
Facts which you got wrong. What are you talking about one shot and you lose it. All it takes is money to do a 51% attack....here is your fact.
I gave consensus as an example, not proof of stake. XRPL / XLM is much more secure than BTC while allowing 1500 TPS (on chain...not second or third layer solutions needed) at a fraction of a penny. The only reason the transactions cost anything is to prevent spamming the network. The transactions finalize in 3 seconds. All this while being 120 000x more efficient in terms of energy consumption.
The reason why people promote BTC is twofold. Group A is heavily invested in it, so they use any mental gymnastics there is to somehow make it sound superior to make their investment go up and group B is uneducated and brainwashed by the propaganda of group A.
Proof of work is not decentralized. It started as decentralized, but moved towards centralization due to the incentivized mining. Just look at the concentration of hash rate...is that decentralized? This is the exact opposite of the consensus chains mentioned above. They started centralized with handful of validators controlled by few entities, but with time they become more and more decentralized as the number of validators run by various entities grow.
So please, do bring facts and then we can talk, but whatever you are bringing to the table is factual inaccuracies. I wonder if you belong to group A or B.
Google "consensus" and get back to me. (hint: proof of work and proof of stake are 2 examples of consensus in blockchain tech)
So please, do stop spreading info you don’t know anything about.
The protocol you're referring to is referred to as the Stellar Consensus Protocol. This is actually an updated version of a centralized system that chose the validators for you and now each node can choose their validators. I highly recommend reading up on it prior to putting all your faith in that system.
Another benefit of mining is all of the coins created are earned. xml/xrp and many other just poofed their coins into existence without earning them and started selling them to people. Imagine thinking bitcoin is the ponzi scheme when these other guys do nothing for their coin. Stellar generated 100 billion coins at the start, then another 1% per year for another 5 years, then decided to delete 50% of them. 20 billion in circulation means the creators have 30 billion lmfao.
You can never add past the max amount of bitcoins.
These other coins could gain a high value and then decide to create 100 billion more for themselves without doing anything.
Comments
One of us clearly bought into an illusion.
I don't like financial products that are that easily lost. If I forget some information about my bank account, I can go to a bank, show ID to prove who I am, and recover it. I can similarly recover it if I lose information about various other investments. If I abruptly die, my major assets can be inherited by chosen beneficiaries. And that's important, because I know that sometimes I do make mistakes.
But while you can keep control of your bitcoin provided that you never make a mistake, you can't force anyone else to pay you anything for it. If the rest of the world figures out that bitcoin is worthless and no one will give you anything for your bitcoin, then you still have total control of it, but can't actually do anything with it other than give it away. And a major government that sets out to kill bitcoin could make that happen very quickly if so inclined. You'll still have total control of your bitcoin, but that won't matter at all.
He claimed with bitcoin you were at the whim of an exchange. I prove him wrong and you bring in banks? That's circular logic. If you want the convenience of a bank then by all means leave your bitcoin in one. You will never get the security of bitcoin with cash.
Can't force anyone to buy anything, that's a moot point. Wonder why the cost of everything goes up? Because the value of that precious dollar keeps going down. You can't force someone to take the dollar either.
Bitcoins other advantage is that it cannot be seized like Gold.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I might be able to believe that banks did a lot of errors back in the history when people used cheques, but nowadays with electronic transactions the errors are really rare, and even when some error happens it's usually with the payment processor not with the bank.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
OT There are some many better proticals for transactions than PoW. No better store of value though.
I like being my own bank.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
For the proclaimed smartest business man/pioneer in the world, a lot of stupid falls out of his mouth.
BTC is about as inefficient a medium you can get for financial transactions. Blockchain, however, isn't a bad idea. BTC is just a very poor implementation of it.
I have no problem with people who want to invest in BTC, or any other cypto. That isn't really any different than someone investing in anything else - there's a risk, you buy some shares, maybe you come out ahead when you sell them again.
For all those people who dream about making something from nothing - nothing that claims to work that way lasts for very long. Some people may get out, but the vast majority will pay dearly for trying.
As Deathkon1 said - you want money, get a job or start a business. No one ever looked down on someone for working hard. The only ones who will come out ahead on BTC will be the rich who rig the system and the con artists who started it all.
Regardless, it's still many times more efficient and energy friendly than gold. Even with it's limited transactions, it still uses less energy than the banking system.
And this is without anything else to go long with it.
Enter second/third layer technology. The lightning network currently transacts on a secure layer above the main blockchain, still secured by the main blockchain, and is capable of a thousand+ transactions per second with near zero cost. Lightning as it stands solves the inefficiency problems, but it's just the beginning.
So please, do stop spreading info you don’t know anything about.
The protocol you're referring to is referred to as the Stellar Consensus Protocol. This is actually an updated version of a centralized system that chose the validators for you and now each node can choose their validators. I highly recommend reading up on it prior to putting all your faith in that system.
Another benefit of mining is all of the coins created are earned. xml/xrp and many other just poofed their coins into existence without earning them and started selling them to people. Imagine thinking bitcoin is the ponzi scheme when these other guys do nothing for their coin. Stellar generated 100 billion coins at the start, then another 1% per year for another 5 years, then decided to delete 50% of them. 20 billion in circulation means the creators have 30 billion lmfao.
These other coins could gain a high value and then decide to create 100 billion more for themselves without doing anything.