Crowfall Taking It 'Slow And Steady' Amid Low Player Count Concerns | MMORPG.com

Raistlin3786

That’s because each zone on a server has a cap of 200.  Even though max server capacity is 1400 or 1800 you get in a queue because you are all logging into the temple zone.  So the server is Light,  but that Temple zone is full with 200.  Hope that helps explain it.

Ah, well that makes sense.  Thanks

Brainy

Slapshot1188 said:

You literally said there would be "hundreds of thousands" of NEW players at launch.  They still coming?

LOL

To be fair, this prediction is only off by 1.

If you change 1 word it would be dead on accurate.


"hundreds OR thousands" of NEW players at launch.

Talmien

If its numbers everyone is worried about, then lets break it down.

number of concurrent players at peak = 4000
number of active "subscribers" = 16000 
monthly revenue per subscriber = $30
total monthly revenue = $480,000

number of artcraft employees = 81
average employee salary = $60,000 / yr
monthly total salary = $401,000

Just from a highly optimistic revenue stream vs. a somewhat pessimistic employee operating cost, they're barely in the green. This is not factoring software licenses to continue development, office space rental fee, AWS rental fees, marketing fee (probably low anyway considering what we seen) and anything else.

There is revenue from licensing out their engine, but I don't know how much that might be, but it looks like it will have to on par to cover the extra cost of keeping the doors open.

And as has been stated, this is launch week, player numbers are expected to decrease by next month, its not easy to be a Eve, or Albion, I wouldn't look to them to foretell that Crowfall will succeed.

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

We are little low this morning, only 63.

I'll give you another update when I get home from work, some of us have lives and can't play 24/7 to appease you need bolster numbers just you can sell off your KS founder items.

Let see... actual server numbers from the minute you posted this:

So again, what server are those "63" playing on?  If it's a US server then you guys make up over 50% of the highest population server.  100% of the other US servers.  Man you guys should dominate!

Dominate? LOL.. We fucking own.

WebbyGaming

I am a backer from the original Kickstarter and I have not bothered to log into the game since "launch".

I played the game off and on during 2020 and into early 2021; to say that I am disappointed by the development and what the game has become is a MASSIVE understatement. Also, aside from my frustration over the terrible mechanics and gameplay decisions, is the fact that the game was not ready for release. It is barely even a beta with its terrible optimization and complete lack of content.

I had high hopes for this game. I loved the idea behind Shadowbane and I expected J Todd Coleman to learn from past mistakes and make a better game. Again, I am profoundly disappointed.

The game is not an immersive world, it feels disconnected and disjointed. There is no flow to actions in the game, it feels more like completely separate tasks that have been modularized and stitched together into a Frankenstein of MMO tasks.

Most importantly, the developers forgot to include one thing... FUN. This game is not fun. Nothing in the game is actually fun to do. Even combat is a clunky, repetitive mess that is more frustrating and boring than it is ever fun.

I am desperate for a new MMO to play. For the past several years every MMO release has been a disappointment for one reason or another (usually connected to greed and money-grabbing over the desire to make quality content). Nevertheless, even with a drought of good MMOs to play, I will still not play Crowfall. Yes, it is really that bad.

BruceYee

Zegaloth said:

I also think that peoples idea of what is considered a failure has change drastically in the last few years. From what I have been able to find (which is steam charts so not the most accurate representation) when ESO released in July 2014 it had a peak of 3104 peak concurrent users and 1992 concurrent users through Steam alone.

Within 1 month they saw a 37% decline through steam to 2,290 peak concurrent with 1244 concurrent. Zenimax spent $200 million to develop ESO in an already established engine, with an already very recognizable IP, and saw Crowfall numbers at launch.

If you scaled up the cost of development alongside the population ESO would need a population of 12,416 across Steam, and their Stand Alone launcher in 2014, and with the population continuing to fall and not seeing a significant gain until March 2015 I don't think they were seeing those kinds of numbers until they dropped the subscription.

What am I trying to say? I need sleep. Why do these cherry picked numbers, and false equivalencies matter? Still working on that.

The bottom line is, that 3000 people is pretty okay for a niche MMORPG without an existing IP. It's not blow the doors off Activision's office with a torrent of cash, but it's also not anything that indicates the game is on life support. If you go by the metric people were using from the weeks before beta of it being a ghost town with less than 500 people at peak times, then have 3000 people at launch is pretty incredible.

I also am not a Kickstarter backer, so I don't know, or care what was originally promised, and I am seeing the game through the lense of what it is currently presented as, which to me is a sandbox MMORPG centered around PvP.

Based on what you wrote...

ESO - 200 Mil to make

CF - 20 Mil to make

Even if CF cost 50 mil to make that's still 150mil less than ESO...

I usually gauge the success of a game launch by seeing how the company is behaving CEO, employees/community manager etc. If they're in a panic making dumb decisions or changing things frantically and currently I see none of that with Crowfall. As a matter of fact I've never felt as many 'mellow vibes' from ACE and even the playerbase that it's almost like I'm at that P,P & M concert again..

I would also like to take this opportunity to apologize to Raph Koster because the crafting is superb when it's being cranked up to max with a full population + economy and not just in test mode(beta). I was 200% wrong and I'm sorry for saying it's like a survival game when IMO it's actually the foundation that makes this game great on many levels.

Ungood

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

BruceYee

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

My guild of 300 currently has 86 online.

All 86 are having a blast doing crafting, pvp, leveling alts... Not sure if that matters but haven't spoken to a single guild member yet that isn't 110% loving the game.

bcbully

One of like two crowed funded that actually launched.


LETS KILL IT!

Tiller

bcbully said:

One of like two crowed funded that actually launched.


LETS KILL IT!

It had already fallen off the building the ledge when it started. We are just here for the splat.

Talmien

Tiller said:

bcbully said:

One of like two crowed funded that actually launched.


LETS KILL IT!

It had already fallen off the building the ledge when it started. We are just here for the splat.

It is kind of comical. Crowfall was barely even talked about on here while it was in development. Now that its launched, and the impending doom is rather apparent, a lot of people are now talking about it.

Slapshot1188

Zegaloth said:

The bottom line is, that 3000 people is pretty okay for a niche MMORPG without an existing IP. It's not blow the doors off Activision's office with a torrent of cash, but it's also not anything that indicates the game is on life support. If you go by the metric people were using from the weeks before beta of it being a ghost town with less than 500 people at peak times, then have 3000 people at launch is pretty incredible.

But what actually matters here...is the money they need to recoup from their investment.  They spent all the backer money long ago (other than small percentages of new purchases over the last few years).  They got more than $30 MILLION in investments.  Those investors want to get paid back WITH a return on their investment.   For that to happen they need a LOT of new players to buy the game.   

It's not so much about you or me.  They got all the money they will ever get from me as I have 5 years of VIP pre-paid.  If I play or not is irrelevant.  But they need to fund the continued development of the game and to do that they need at LEAST high 5 figure to low 6 figure NEW players.

They simply cannot survive on 3000 players.  Not even close.   In the last day they added a little over 900 paid accounts (lets call it 1k).  That is about $40,000 in revenue.  Just for perspective vs the $30,000,000 (plus an ROI) they have to get back to the investors plus operating costs for the servers and staff.

Normally, there is a massive spike at launch and then attrition sets in.  Maybe Crowfall will be unique (or at least one of the few) to buck that trend and we will see quick growth.  We will see, and that is what the numbers will tell us.  Those stats are far more important than any individual experience.  

I'll be on for 5+ hours today and I am sure I will have some fun.  Got my crafter enough Discs to upgrade to Purple, just need to farm about 5k more gold which is my goal tonight. 

Slapshot1188

Talmien said:

If its numbers everyone is worried about, then lets break it down.

number of concurrent players at peak = 4000
number of active "subscribers" = 16000 
monthly revenue per subscriber = $30
total monthly revenue = $480,000

number of artcraft employees = 81
average employee salary = $60,000 / yr
monthly total salary = $401,000

Just from a highly optimistic revenue stream vs. a somewhat pessimistic employee operating cost, they're barely in the green. This is not factoring software licenses to continue development, office space rental fee, AWS rental fees, marketing fee (probably low anyway considering what we seen) and anything else.

There is revenue from licensing out their engine, but I don't know how much that might be, but it looks like it will have to on par to cover the extra cost of keeping the doors open.

And as has been stated, this is launch week, player numbers are expected to decrease by next month, its not easy to be a Eve, or Albion, I wouldn't look to them to foretell that Crowfall will succeed.

Those subscribers would have to be new players.  The old ones all have months or years of VIP already, as well as their accounts pre-paid.

Plus they have investors that put in over $30,000,000 that want to be paid back, with interest.

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume your "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

achesoma

Hariken said:

Acalex said:

It also helps if your game is worth playing

PVP focused
That's like saying we don't want money.

PvP centric is fine. But in an MMO there needs to be meaningful PvE in order for PvP to flourish. There has to be a well done environment worth fighting over.

achesoma

coretex666 said:

Hariken said:

Acalex said:

It also helps if your game is worth playing

PVP focused
That's like saying we don't want money.

Yea because PVP focused games like DOTA, PUBG, LoL, etc. are commercial disasters. 

Not that I entirely agree with his statement but none of those are MMOs.

Scorchien

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume you're "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

These are terrible numbers for this game at this stage , actually much worse than i anticipated ..

  Im certain they and there investors are not pleased , i did send an email off to a guy that is involved ( on the fiancial end) , Have not heard back yet ..

Slapshot1188

Scorchien said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume you're "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

These are terrible numbers for this game at this stage , actually much worse than i anticipated ..

  Im certain they and there investors are not pleased , i did send an email off to a guy that is involved ( on the fiancial end) , Have not heard back yet ..

I wonder if the guy who used to post the Crowfall MMORPG.com Articles (Red Thomas I think?) will pop in to let us know how his investment is looking from his perspective.  He said he was an actual investor in the game if I recall correctly.

Scorchien

Slapshot1188 said:

Scorchien said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume you're "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

These are terrible numbers for this game at this stage , actually much worse than i anticipated ..

  Im certain they and there investors are not pleased , i did send an email off to a guy that is involved ( on the fiancial end) , Have not heard back yet ..

I wonder if the guy who used to post the Crowfall MMORPG.com Articles (Red Thomas I think?) will pop in to let us know how his investment is looking from his perspective.  He said he was an actual investor in the game if I recall correctly.

I did not invest in this one , i just jumped in as a gamer ..

   But i will tell you this if i had , i would be very concerned right now ...

    This is teetering on lawsuit area..

Slapshot1188

Zegaloth said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume your "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

That isn't 5:30 EST. It's 5:30 PST. at 2:30 PST there were 1109 people on the Eastern Server, and at 4:30 PM East server had 470, and the West server had 317. You can see all this under the Campaign graph on https://www.crowfallstatus.com/

the Malakai bot was not functional at the release of Dregs, and wasn't up until 3:34 PM PST yesterday.

Huh?   It's literally 5:30 Eastern... It cant be 5:30 PST as it's not 5:30 PST yet. We are talking today's numbers not last nights.

Scorchien

Slapshot1188 said:

Zegaloth said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume your "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

That isn't 5:30 EST. It's 5:30 PST. at 2:30 PST there were 1109 people on the Eastern Server, and at 4:30 PM East server had 470, and the West server had 317. You can see all this under the Campaign graph on https://www.crowfallstatus.com/

the Malakai bot was not functional at the release of Dregs, and wasn't up until 3:34 PM PST yesterday.

Huh?   It's literally 5:30 Eastern... It cant be 5:30 PST as it's not 5:30 PST yet. We are talking today's numbers not last nights.

Honestly it does not matter what time it is ... 3500 players on at this time ( 1 week from release )

  Is horrible at best ..

     FFS the Warhammer emu server has over 1k on it right now ..

Slapshot1188

Scorchien said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Scorchien said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume you're "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

These are terrible numbers for this game at this stage , actually much worse than i anticipated ..

  Im certain they and there investors are not pleased , i did send an email off to a guy that is involved ( on the fiancial end) , Have not heard back yet ..

I wonder if the guy who used to post the Crowfall MMORPG.com Articles (Red Thomas I think?) will pop in to let us know how his investment is looking from his perspective.  He said he was an actual investor in the game if I recall correctly.

I did not invest in this one , i just jumped in as a gamer ..

   But i will tell you this if i had , i would be very concerned right now ...

    This is teetering on lawsuit area..

Never knew you were Red.

Scorchien

Slapshot1188 said:

Scorchien said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Scorchien said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

@Slapshot1188

Right now, we have 102 Active in game.

Since this matters so much to you.

Assume you're "dominating" guild is on the East Dregs, you would make up 36.5% of the server population...

@zegaloth As of 5:30 Eastern, 2855 total players and only 279 in US East, (over a 3rd of which are apparently in Ungood's guild).

These are terrible numbers for this game at this stage , actually much worse than i anticipated ..

  Im certain they and there investors are not pleased , i did send an email off to a guy that is involved ( on the fiancial end) , Have not heard back yet ..

I wonder if the guy who used to post the Crowfall MMORPG.com Articles (Red Thomas I think?) will pop in to let us know how his investment is looking from his perspective.  He said he was an actual investor in the game if I recall correctly.

I did not invest in this one , i just jumped in as a gamer ..

   But i will tell you this if i had , i would be very concerned right now ...

    This is teetering on lawsuit area..

Never knew you were Red.

Lol ..no no .. Im not ...    I am an investor tho , since the late 90s , in Dev/Pub houses ..:)

  Thats how i retired at 53

Slapshot1188

Zegaloth said:

EDIT: Oh I see. You mean today. Yeah I mispoke and thought the Keep siege was at 2:30, but it's at 5:30 PST. We are taking a break to eat some food and stuff before we go back on.

Some people are farming gear in God's reach in preparation for tonight, while others with gear are farming in Dregs. You can go to whatever server you want, so the overall population when events aren't happening in Dregs is going to fluctuate.

Yup that's why we will get on around 8PM.  Was wondering why you were talking about 5:30 Eastern but we don't own any Keeps so I didn't know when they would go live. 

We will see what the East Dregs look like in 2 hours or so. 

Alomar

Me and my entire guild are only NOT playing Crowfall because New World is so close to it's Open Beta and launch. Which is the first AAA budget Western dev'ed mmo in 7 years since ESO....so horrible timing on their part as a lot of us are Crowfall backers.