Quest Bottleneck

Slapshot1188

OK.  Had my first real issue with the game.  The main quest has several "bottlenecks" where you have to kill a named mob.  The problem is that all players from all factions are on the same quest.   In order to get credit for the kill you have to do a certain percent of damage.  Tonight I spent an hour just trying to get credit in the same spot.  The Boss is on a 6 minute timer.  DPS just hit on the spot and spam attacks.

This screenshot has about 40 people in a small ball:




To make matters worse.  This is repeated in some manner for 4 times (not QUITE as bad, or at least we were luckier).   In the instance above.  Every 6 minutes a few people would get credit, maybe 3 or 4.  In the 6 minute time, more than 3-4 would show up... so the ball just grew.  We ended up getting a full group and still took about 6 spawns before we got this guy.  It was bad once... by the end of the quest chain we are just DONE... and this is the quest you HAVE to do if you want to run dungeons.  We finally got to that part, so maybe tomorrow I delve in.

Hopefully they fix this for release.  Maybe lower the percent needed for credit.  I dunno. Something.  These bosses were nuked down in 1.5 seconds flat.

YashaX

I hope you send in some feedback on that, looks pretty bad.

Kyleran

Typical noob developer mistake, need to speed the respawn timer up a bit, at least for the initial rush at launch.

Normally I'd say go do something else but since this is gating to running dungeons I understand the frustration.

I had a touch of that myself last night in ESO in a new dragon killing event I missed getting credit on my first two attempts as I was out of position from where it eventually landed and couldn't get there fast enough before the horde of players in the area burned it down in short order. (Well under a minute)

Guildy felt bad for my slow running horse speed and actually spent 3000 crowns so I could jack it up 30%.  

Told him no need, but he just did it without asking, said I could repay the favor some day.

Eventually got credit for the three kills and it certainly wasn't a gating event but still was a bit annoying.

Iselin

The kill credit needs adjusting especially because those elite mob kill quests are designed for 2 or 3 players and with a small group they will last long enough that it would be hard to not do 10% damage and get credit.

With 20 players around OTOH, it's dead in an instant. You notice the spawn, try to attack it... too late, it's dead.

Another problem is some hunt quests like the faction quest I've gotten a couple of times to kill and skin 3 buffalos. They don't fight back and run away from you really fast. Even if you manage to chase it down and kill it, chances are that someone else will get to the carcass first and skin it since a dead animal on the ground is open for all to skin - even quest animals.

All we can do is to just keep giving them feedback on these player density issues that probably never cropped up in alpha. Do it with the log out feedback tool and also in their forum.

And yes respawn timers for these named mobs are way too slow and the system doesn't seem to take player density into consideration and adjust the spawn rate.

Iselin

Kyleran said:

Typical noob developer mistake, need to speed the respawn timer up a bit, at least for the initial rush at launch.

Normally I'd say go do something else but since this is gating to running dungeons I understand the frustration.

I had a touch of that myself last night in ESO in a new dragon killing event I missed getting credit on my first two attempts as I was out of position from where it eventually landed and couldn't get there fast enough before the horde of players in the area burned it down in short order. (Well under a minute)

Guildy felt bad for my slow running horse speed and actually spent 3000 crowns so I could jack it up 30%.  

Told him no need, but he just did it without asking, said I could repay the favor some day.

Eventually got credit for the three kills and it certainly wasn't a gating event but still was a bit annoying.

It was worse in ESO for the first few months. They didn't have a minimum damage % but instead had a top 10 damage dealer system for getting credit. It used to be a problem on dolmen PQs, especially those near busy towns with 20+ players doing them and less than half getting credit.

They eventually adjusted it and I think just giving the mob a stern look gives you credit now.

Slapshot1188

In some ways it reminded us of Everquest.  Where you would literally wait a day for your chance.
The difference is, back in Ye Olden Days the community was actually civilized.  You would sit back and wait your turn.  Even if that turn was hours (or days!!!) away.

Some poor guy tried to get this organized last night and suggested forming a line at the entry.  The first response was, and I quote "Fuck your line get good Boomer".  It went downhill from there.

They can't change people... but yes, let's hope they figure out how to tweak these bottlenecks.

Theocritus

Give it a couple of months it won't be an issue anymore...There are just alot of players condensed in a small range right now.

Mendel

Slapshot1188 said:

OK.  Had my first real issue with the game.  The main quest has several "bottlenecks" where you have to kill a named mob.  The problem is that all players from all factions are on the same quest.   In order to get credit for the kill you have to do a certain percent of damage.  Tonight I spent an hour just trying to get credit in the same spot.  The Boss is on a 6 minute timer.  DPS just hit on the spot and spam attacks.

This screenshot has about 40 people in a small ball:




To make matters worse.  This is repeated in some manner for 4 times (not QUITE as bad, or at least we were luckier).   In the instance above.  Every 6 minutes a few people would get credit, maybe 3 or 4.  In the 6 minute time, more than 3-4 would show up... so the ball just grew.  We ended up getting a full group and still took about 6 spawns before we got this guy.  It was bad once... by the end of the quest chain we are just DONE... and this is the quest you HAVE to do if you want to run dungeons.  We finally got to that part, so maybe tomorrow I delve in.

Hopefully they fix this for release.  Maybe lower the percent needed for credit.  I dunno. Something.  These bosses were nuked down in 1.5 seconds flat.

Horrific design.  I guess AGS has never used Gantt charts, like some other games have boasted about. 

Slapshot1188

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Well, I just had the usual "common courtesy" behavior for the forge master NPC. There was a group, everyone got invited, we all got credit.

So not all players are assholes, after all

As a tank, I was a bit worried I must say. My DPS output is a wet noodle.

Try being a healer

Wizardry

This is what i was talking about when i watched a streamer playing.The answer is NOT instances,that just made me laugh at the stupidity of said streamer.

For one thing all players shouldn't be congregating in the same place and following the EXACT same linear questing,the game should be an open ended game with CHOICE of where to go and what to do.
The mentality of this design is like playing Wow so i can see how a streamer would think....oh just make these quests instances and everything is good.

The problem with game design is that the industry is just ful of leaders that are all brainwashed OR lack the ability to THINK for themselves and design their games BETTER than the past failures.

Another issue is gating content,similar to WOW's gear scores,it is just stupid and shows me a really bad producer and design.The industry needs NEW blood but sadly that new blood would likely come from people that play the same old bad design games so the problem will continue to trickle down for years to come.

Brainy

Slapshot1188 said:

Try being a healer

Yeah I think I'm giving up on being a main healer, I was Life Staff/Ice but I'm about done with it now.  I just cant deal with the way the targeted healing works in this game.  Also its really buggy the targeted heals sometimes don't even work.

Going Great Axe/Life Staff, so far I like it.  Maybe off heal or something.

Iselin

Brainy said:

Also its really buggy the targeted heals sometimes don't even work.

Found that out the hard way trying to give myself a heal when I really needed one - it also consumed mana despite doing nothing adding insult to injury. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Going Great Axe/Life Staff, so far I like it.  Maybe off heal or something.

I've gone Hatchet main with Great Axe secondary (for its execute) lately myself.

Ironically, the hatchet's HOT is more potent than the one from the healing staff and lasts 15 seconds with no need to "cast it" - It, and several other buffs, just happen automatically for activating Berzerker which you do mostly for the extra damage, uninterruptible attacks and stagger immunity.

I think someone at AGS really, really likes melee weapons the best

Scot

Well the questing was bolted on, I am surprised there are not more issues like this, down the line though this is the sort of thing they should be able to deal with relatively easily. They seemed to not want to use instances, which I applaud, but then you need another solution.

Scot

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Scot said:

Well the questing was bolted on, I am surprised there are not more issues like this, down the line though this is the sort of thing they should be able to deal with relatively easily. They seemed to not want to use instances, which I applaud, but then you need another solution.

Dealing with assholes is an issue since MMORPGs exist. That's why UO had to add Trammel, and it never stopped since then...
The problem is, if you do too much to thwart them, the games starts to feel artificial and the player interactions are seriously harmed...

I personally think they should separate quest item kill claim from loot/other kill claim. Everyone having participated gets the quest kill claim, but to get the loot/other stuff you need to participate a specific % of total damage (or healing...).

That is a very good solution and simple to implement compared to suddenly bringing in instances. I do not favour instances as it breaks up the player community and can cause issues for guilds who have to run as a group just to make sure they all end up in the same instance.

olepi

Slapshot1188 said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Well, I just had the usual "common courtesy" behavior for the forge master NPC. There was a group, everyone got invited, we all got credit.

So not all players are assholes, after all

As a tank, I was a bit worried I must say. My DPS output is a wet noodle.

Try being a healer

I tried Life Staff as my main weapon. I got the feeling that staffs, and magic in general, was almost an afterthought. As if they spent years developing the melee stuff, and at the end somebody said, "Hey, ppl want magic. We better add some."

And of course, my proper role in a boss fight is to keep the fighters alive, how am I supposed to get 10% damage on the boss?

Iselin

olepi said:

 As if they spent years developing the melee stuff, and at the end somebody said, "Hey, ppl want magic. We better add some."

This is also my thought. The non magical weapons seem fairly well balanced and polished but for a game that has a healing staff the healing is underwhelming and the lack of XP share or quest mob credit for healing others who are engaged in combat feels like the first couple of months of DAoC in 2001 before they realized they needed to do something about that.

Modern MMOs have had a system to reward healers for healing since forever but it's conspicuously missing in NW. The only way to get credit for healing is to be in a group and even then I don't think you get any more credit than if you were in the group and did nothing.

Definitely feels like magic weapons are an afterthought. 

Slapshot1188

Update from the OP:

One of my slacker Company-mates just got to running the same quests to get his Azoth staff so he could run dungeons.  He ran them all solo and did not have any bottlenecks.  There were just a few people at each spot where previously we were stuck.

Now I do not know if Amazon fixed the issues, or if he's just behind the curve enough where it's not a problem any longer but he did run the same quests with no issues.

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

Update from the OP:

One of my slacker Company-mates just got to running the same quests to get his Azoth staff so he could run dungeons.  He ran them all solo and did not have any bottlenecks.  There were just a few people at each spot where previously we were stuck.

Now I do not know if Amazon fixed the issues, or if he's just behind the curve enough where it's not a problem any longer but he did run the same quests with no issues.

I do hate it when you have put in a ton of work to get something done in game that one of your guildies, who you know is a half arsed chancer tells you he has done it. "Oh yeah I stumbled into that and got the achievement" sort of thing, bloody annoying. And of course especially if you are a guild officer you have to say "Well done mate!".

Asm0deus

How do you all like the game though?

Slapshot1188

Scot said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Update from the OP:

One of my slacker Company-mates just got to running the same quests to get his Azoth staff so he could run dungeons.  He ran them all solo and did not have any bottlenecks.  There were just a few people at each spot where previously we were stuck.

Now I do not know if Amazon fixed the issues, or if he's just behind the curve enough where it's not a problem any longer but he did run the same quests with no issues.

I do hate it when you have put in a ton of work to get something done in game that one of your guildies, who you know is a half arsed chancer tells you he has done it. "Oh yeah I stumbled into that and got the achievement" sort of thing, bloody annoying. And of course especially if you are a guild officer you have to say "Well done mate!".

Yeah, in this case we have gamed together for 15 years so... no issues calling him a slacker
We don't have officers or guild leaders.  Just get stuff done.  Unfortunately there are limits to what a 10 person guild can do in most games.

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

Scot said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Update from the OP:

One of my slacker Company-mates just got to running the same quests to get his Azoth staff so he could run dungeons.  He ran them all solo and did not have any bottlenecks.  There were just a few people at each spot where previously we were stuck.

Now I do not know if Amazon fixed the issues, or if he's just behind the curve enough where it's not a problem any longer but he did run the same quests with no issues.

I do hate it when you have put in a ton of work to get something done in game that one of your guildies, who you know is a half arsed chancer tells you he has done it. "Oh yeah I stumbled into that and got the achievement" sort of thing, bloody annoying. And of course especially if you are a guild officer you have to say "Well done mate!".

Yeah, in this case we have gamed together for 15 years so... no issues calling him a slacker
We don't have officers or guild leaders.  Just get stuff done.  Unfortunately there are limits to what a 10 person guild can do in most games.

One of my best mates, a roleplayer to boot seemed to think being in a MMO guild meant soloing of somewhere and never taking part in anything. But did he get everything, yes he did and if not I would get a call to help out.

Slapshot1188

Found another Bottleneck on the same questline.

Similar setup...  It's the main quest line and shared by all 3 factions.   Go to location X and Kill some Y and Z.   Well,  Y and Z are on a 6 minute timer and just 1 of them.  To make it worse one target was not Elite and could be almost 1 shot by some players.

Got it done eventually (was grouped with2 others)... but this is going to be painful at launch.

Bloodaxes

Slapshot1188 said:

Found another Bottleneck on the same questline.

Similar setup...  It's the main quest line and shared by all 3 factions.   Go to location X and Kill some Y and Z.   Well,  Y and Z are on a 6 minute timer and just 1 of them.  To make it worse one target was not Elite and could be almost 1 shot by some players.

Got it done eventually (was grouped with2 others)... but this is going to be painful at launch.

Hope you're reporting such nuisances and not just complaining here. With all the changes they made to please players, at the very least tweaking a respawn timer wouldn't be unthinkable considering this launches at the end of august. 

Slapshot1188

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Found another Bottleneck on the same questline.

Similar setup...  It's the main quest line and shared by all 3 factions.   Go to location X and Kill some Y and Z.   Well,  Y and Z are on a 6 minute timer and just 1 of them.  To make it worse one target was not Elite and could be almost 1 shot by some players.

Got it done eventually (was grouped with2 others)... but this is going to be painful at launch.

The smith ?

That was prior and was a nightmare.  This one was a little better.  The General or something like that and some of his non-elite minions of which there were only a few on a 5-6 minute timer.    In a Graveyard/Church.
 

achesoma

Yeah, had similar issue. I see you're using life staff. With Ezra the forgemaster and the one earlier where you have to kill the tendrils, I wasn't getting credit when using life staff. As soon as I switched to melee weapon damage, I got credit. Could be coincidence but it worked for me.