Wind effects in MMORPG's are always done wrong

olepi

Get into your favorite MMO, or any game for that matter, and look at the wind. You see stuff moving around, trees swaying, grass moving, etc. But it is all random. Can you look at the trees and tell which way the wind is blowing? Does the grass just kind of move around aimlessly?

Wind is an invisible force that moves things in the direction of the wind. Our brains are programmed to detect a tree leaning over in one direction, and to figure out how strong the wind is and where it is blowing from. No game has that.

What we see is more like the wind is just coming from below, and blowing things around. You never see the trees all blowing in the same direction.

And even when the trees, bushes, and grasses are swaying violently, torches in the area burn straight up as if there is no wind at all.

I only know of one game, Stronghold 2 IIRC, that had trees all swaying in unison so you could actually see the wind on them.

olepi

You're right. Valheim does it somewhat better. I see grass blowing in mostly one direction, although the torch in the grass isn't. And they blow little particles in one direction to help give the feeling of wind direction.

The trees are still mostly just swaying around, but it is better than most other games, like New World for example.

olepi

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

olepi said:

The trees are still mostly just swaying around, but it is better than most other games, like New World for example.

One may find whatever he can to bash a game, right ?

No, I am not bashing. I've noticed in games for the last 20 years that wind is always portrayed as stuff just swaying around. More like it was underwater.

Valheim at least tries to give a sense of direction, which is an improvement. For full immersion, it would be great if the torches also moved with the wind.

Kyleran

olepi said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

olepi said:

The trees are still mostly just swaying around, but it is better than most other games, like New World for example.

One may find whatever he can to bash a game, right ?

No, I am not bashing. I've noticed in games for the last 20 years that wind is always portrayed as stuff just swaying around. More like it was underwater.

Valheim at least tries to give a sense of direction, which is an improvement. For full immersion, it would be great if the torches also moved with the wind.

Considering how worked up some gamers get over the need for more realistic water effects in these games I'm surprised you see such early resistance to your suggestion.

Mendel

olepi said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

olepi said:

The trees are still mostly just swaying around, but it is better than most other games, like New World for example.

One may find whatever he can to bash a game, right ?

No, I am not bashing. I've noticed in games for the last 20 years that wind is always portrayed as stuff just swaying around. More like it was underwater.

Valheim at least tries to give a sense of direction, which is an improvement. For full immersion, it would be great if the torches also moved with the wind.

I certainly agree that games haven't done a good job in presenting weather and weather effects.  What was the last game where you saw a rain storm that you simply didn't want to venture out in?  When was the last time you had to seek shelter from the rain, snow, or wind?  It just doesn't happen in games.  I will agree that this is a minor issue to some people; at the same time, many people want their virtual worlds to be more realistic.  Games just haven't advanced that much since 1999 -- go out at all hours in any kind of weather; get involved with 300+ life-or-death fights with beasts, critters, and other opponents; then log out for the evening; only to want a more realistic experience from your game.

olepi

Water effects are probably easier, since what you are modeling is the water itself.

For wind, which is invisible, you have to model the effect it has on the environment.

Mendel

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Assassin's Creed - Black Flag has amazing water AND weather effects. And it's an old (2013) game. It's mostly the water effects that are to be praised though, you really feel like you're on the ocean, even more if there's a storm.

Agreed.  But where is that same effect in an MMORPG?

Kyleran

Mendel said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Assassin's Creed - Black Flag has amazing water AND weather effects. And it's an old (2013) game. It's mostly the water effects that are to be praised though, you really feel like you're on the ocean, even more if there's a storm.

Agreed.  But where is that same effect in an MMORPG?

Perhaps considering everything else MMORPG clients have to display developers haven't wanted to take the performance hit wind effects might have since the benefits are slight and many would want to dial them back anyway.

Cryomatrix

I am not detailed oriented at all, never noticed wind in any game ive ever played.

But now that you mention it, when i play new world tonight, my immersion will be forever ruined by the directionless wind. 

cameltosis

I'm kind of with you on this one, but for different reasons.

I'm not too fussed by the fact that all the plants and trees sway in different directions. Whilst that is a little unrealistic, wind is a pretty fickle bitch and the closer you get to the ground, the more distorted it becomes. So, I don't really mind if grass blows randomly, though it would be cool to see the trees being a bit more coordinated.

Where I do come from is from a sailing perspective. I grew up racing sailboats so I'm very familiar with how wind, clouds and water work - though admittedly my knowledge of such things is generally limited to rivers and a few miles from the coast. Apart from one or two sailing sim games, nothing else even comes remotely close to real life.

AC: Black Flag is a great game and the sailing portion is awesome, but it's nowhere near close to actual sailing. The main thing about it which works well is just the feeling of being on an unpredictable surface (i.e. waves). That feeling of cresting a wave and then crashing back into the trough is brilliant and at least vaguely related to the real world, but the way the ship actually moves, steers and sails is way off.

Nilden

I remember Ryzom having some crazy wind effects and a Zelda game and Stormworks.

It's not something that gets a lot of attention. However as a level builder I would make sure to rotate all the flags blowing the same way. Usually it's the level design that places wind and it's not an actual weather simulation that blows trees, grass, objects, water, fabric etc..

olepi

cameltosis said:

I'm kind of with you on this one, but for different reasons.

I'm not too fussed by the fact that all the plants and trees sway in different directions. Whilst that is a little unrealistic, wind is a pretty fickle bitch and the closer you get to the ground, the more distorted it becomes. So, I don't really mind if grass blows randomly, though it would be cool to see the trees being a bit more coordinated.

Where I do come from is from a sailing perspective. I grew up racing sailboats so I'm very familiar with how wind, clouds and water work - though admittedly my knowledge of such things is generally limited to rivers and a few miles from the coast. Apart from one or two sailing sim games, nothing else even comes remotely close to real life.

AC: Black Flag is a great game and the sailing portion is awesome, but it's nowhere near close to actual sailing. The main thing about it which works well is just the feeling of being on an unpredictable surface (i.e. waves). That feeling of cresting a wave and then crashing back into the trough is brilliant and at least vaguely related to the real world, but the way the ship actually moves, steers and sails is way off.

Maybe that's it. I'm a sailor too, and wind is your life if you are a sailor.

Pirates of the Burning Sea is the only MMO I've played that had real wind effects that made a difference.

Amaranthar

When I play Skyrim I get a performance hit around a lot of candles. I don't know if computers are up to it yet. Wind effects are additional to everything else, plus then you need to affect cloaks and hair and whatever to keep things in the right perspective. 
But having storm effects would be very cool. 

Kyleran

I recall one of the more hilarious implementation of wind effects is in Fallout 76. 

You can place two flags on your camp roof, each fully flapping in the breeze....

In the opposite direction from each other.

olepi

Kyleran said:

I recall one of the more hilarious implementation of wind effects is in Fallout 76. 

You can place two flags on your camp roof, each fully flapping in the breeze....

In the opposite direction from each other.

Oh Jeez, don't make it worse..

Scot

I don't get why people have a problem with this sort of thing, I am far too enamoured of graphics myself but then players will start talking about specific animations, or one element of the weather and I just don't see the problem.

We have games made for adults that are really cartoony, even Civilization falls foul of that. Minimally cartoony in play, over the top cartoony in leaders. I a realist fan, but something like The Banner Sage was great, it is when they make the art look like what you can get in kids cartoons that I just don't get it.

This is obviously down to taste, one mans good wind is another's poison as it were.