The door to recovery creaks open...

Slapshot1188

As New World just announced a one month launch delay that gives Crowfall about 2 months to recover from their own launch mistakes and get some attention.

Can they do it?

maskedweasel

Slapshot1188 said:

As New World just announced a one month launch delay that gives Crowfall about 2 months to recover from their own launch mistakes and get some attention.

Can they do it?

I haven't played crowfall, and I only really know from what I've seen in videos and from people who have played it here, but... my understanding was that crowfall wasn't doing well from just the general aspects of the game, and not necessarily due to a bad launch.

That's just... what I picked up from what I've seen.

Utinni

These games aren't competitors past being MMOs. They are a vastly different market.

Slapshot1188

Utinni said:

These games aren't competitors past being MMOs. They are a vastly different market.

Strange then why Artcraft paid their streamers to make all the videos comparing the 2 games.

If you think they aren't competing for some of the same eyeballs and dollars you are kidding yourself.

Mendel

Slapshot1188 said:

Utinni said:

These games aren't competitors past being MMOs. They are a vastly different market.

Strange then why Artcraft paid their streamers to make all the videos comparing the 2 games.

If you think they aren't competing for some of the same eyeballs and dollars you are kidding yourself.

Sadly, we are a finite market.  They have to advertise and pay to have comparisons made.  At least, Artcraft seems to recognize this.  Other companies, not so much.

Groqstrong

Utinni said:

These games aren't competitors past being MMOs. They are a vastly different market.

IMO they are very similar outside of art and theme.

PvP Focused
Siege PvP Focused
Crafting Focused

Utinni

Groqstrong said:

Utinni said:

These games aren't competitors past being MMOs. They are a vastly different market.

IMO they are very similar outside of art and theme.

PvP Focused
Siege PvP Focused
Crafting Focused

On paper yea you can drum it down to that. In reality the people who want CF systems aren't the ones who want NW systems.

Nilden

There better be some kind of unfathomable miracle on the other side of that door.

Groqstrong

Nilden said:

There better be some kind of unfathomable miracle on the other side of that door.

The miracle is going to come as a F2P model.  At this point I dont think many are willing to drop money to play it.

mcrippins

I like Crowfall. For a lot of reasons. However, I think one major thing that will keep me from really loving the game is something that's not necessarily the game's fault. 

Mass zergs. It completely negates small groups and solo players. Not to say that solo players can't exist. They do, and some of them are very good at the game, but they're almost pidgeonholed into certain classes/playstyle. Those who prefer small & tactical groups are pretty much in the same boat. Simply due to the fact that in most cases the army with the larger number wins. This is not just an issue with Crowfall, but many other hardcore PvP games as well. I've read a few solutions to this, but ultimately it comes down to how the developer wants to proceed. It's just something I dislike greatly. 

Another thing lacking in Crowfall specifically is Realm Pride. I think back to DaoC and realize that Crowfall is just so far from having any level of this. The fact that you can change faction at any time makes something like this almost impossible. I hope they change the game for the better. I really enjoy a lot of aspects of Crowfall, but its current incarnation is just not for me. Sadly. 

Ungood

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

As New World just announced a one month launch delay that gives Crowfall about 2 months to recover from their own launch mistakes and get some attention.

Can they do it?

I haven't played crowfall, and I only really know from what I've seen in videos and from people who have played it here, but... my understanding was that crowfall wasn't doing well from just the general aspects of the game, and not necessarily due to a bad launch.

That's just... what I picked up from what I've seen.

I have to agree with this, it's doing about as well as anyone really expected it to do, even the developers.

lashlash

mcrippins said:

I like Crowfall. For a lot of reasons. However, I think one major thing that will keep me from really loving the game is something that's not necessarily the game's fault. 

Mass zergs. It completely negates small groups and solo players. Not to say that solo players can't exist. They do, and some of them are very good at the game, but they're almost pidgeonholed into certain classes/playstyle. Those who prefer small & tactical groups are pretty much in the same boat. Simply due to the fact that in most cases the army with the larger number wins. This is not just an issue with Crowfall, but many other hardcore PvP games as well. I've read a few solutions to this, but ultimately it comes down to how the developer wants to proceed. It's just something I dislike greatly. 

Another thing lacking in Crowfall specifically is Realm Pride. I think back to DaoC and realize that Crowfall is just so far from having any level of this. The fact that you can change faction at any time makes something like this almost impossible. I hope they change the game for the better. I really enjoy a lot of aspects of Crowfall, but its current incarnation is just not for me. Sadly. 

I order for those mass Zergs to justify themselves, they have to go out and do an appropriate amount of work and rewards to justify them. As seen in the last campaign, being a part of a large guild is not that rewarding, other than saying you helped a tiny bit in adding a warm body to the alliance that didn't even necessarily win. That was just all your Zerg could come up with. Large scale combat doesn't feel interesting and you don't feel impactful, since you don't have much buy-in to this Zerg and you're just throwing bodies to the problem, not using your wits.

Small guilds get way better rewards from the campaigns on a per player basis. Likewise they have more fun playing the outpost and allying for the fort game, and beyond. It's more bottom up in the approach. Fighting off disorganized Zergs who are capping things using smart play has let us win 2v5, 3v6, 4v8 and so forth. The Zergs can't be everywhere, so we exploit that. 

Meanwhile their ranks get less and less loyal to their leadership, since they realise they aren't getting much out of it, other than animosity from non-Zergs and being able to bully an area until they don't need to fight anyone anymore, and just end up as a cog in a large boring machine.

So if you want to partake in the Zerg, great. I think it's a good place for some newbies who want to suck up to a streamer (who they will never really meet), or just feel like they can be a part of all the "content" i.e. the zone capping and mass fight game. But if you actually want to play and have fun, you won't do that, and in fact being in a Zerg makes you a target for those who actually optimize their play based on necessity.
 

Wizardry

Artcraft spent 9 years to accomplish a pvp game....sigh.How long would it have taken them to make a robust rpg...20 years?

A couple months ,even a year is not going to do squat for Crowfall.
Artcraft made a huge mistake in their deesign ideas and began makinga game with little money,so it was a stupid idea but i ASS U ME they figured aso long they get enough crowd funding money to pay the basic bills they have nothing to lose.
I would bet those investors were handing over money they could afford to lose so it was a who cares for them and a win win for CF but their team is just not capable of making a AAA game.

MaGicBush

Utinni said:

These games aren't competitors past being MMOs. They are a vastly different market.

This. Crowfall is a full loot entirely pvp focused game. NW is flag pvp with no loot deterioration and no looting. It's focus is mainly on PvE with some pvp like many other MMO games. The combat is lackluster as well, but that's another subject.

BruceYee

I have to include everything I plan to say here because after 1 post my account is required to fill out a captcha that just hangs indefinitely..

There is nothing to "recover" from. The vast majority of negative press this game has received is from people/companies with obvious agendas that know very little about the game. Their limited knowledge when passed on to people with even lesser knowledge looks like wisdom but is in fact pure agenda driven misinformation.

I will be unable to reply to anyone even to defend what I write because like I said after my 1st post in any thread I'm unable to post further.

There is a direct correlation between PVE players who never stop trying to tear CF down and not being able handle loss.. Which is what a full loot PVP mmo basically is and why they relentlessly attack it..

PVE players 'supposedly' had New World changed from a full loot pvp MMO to a pvp-lite MMO where you don't experience any great direct loss at the hands of another player/human being. Think about now how the same people who are now bashing CF are also the same people who can never admit they were wrong in threads even when provided factual information disproving their claims then will even resort to lies & insults to avoid defeat at all costs.

I thought hardcore full loot PVPers were supposed to be the nasty ones? Those meanie gankers that are always out to steal your stuff or "erase hours of your progress" but here we are where insecure PVE players are the ones in CF threads throwing out misinfo while there are almost zero CF 'hardcore ganker aholes' in NW threads bashing that game with lies and misinformation? Wanna know why? Because full loot pvpers deal with loss on a regular basis. Even the 'meanest' ganker losses sometimes... that's part of the fun. Imagine a chess game where no one loses... The loss that everyone claims is a negative for those who have no problem losing actually see the unknown pvp encounter as a challenge and not something to fear. Get it? Yes you may get ganked and you may lose some of your stuff but have you ever heard of "risk vs reward"? Sometimes the reward does outweigh the risk and with a game like CF that is in no way the hardest of hardcore full loot pvp games put many different features in place to prevent actual full loss. If you play smart and have situational awareness along with some social/communication skills then the risk part becomes even smaller.

CF has been improving the game with multiple patches non-stop since launch. There have been so many QOL improvements like animation updates, reducing tutorial time etc etc. None of those improvements are being spoken of anywhere which isn't surprising. The game IS improving weekly so don't let any posers make you believe the game is in bad shape because that is a lie.

I play CF daily in a BIG guild. I can answer your questions based on FACTS not one person's opinion based on casual solo play... I probably won't be able to respond in this thread for the reasons I mentioned above so feel free and send me a PM and if that's not being blocked as well I'll be able to help you the best I can. Anything and everything from solo play to how to progress beyond solo play etc etc

Also one other thing that certain people don't want you to know is that EVERYONE in this game is valuable... every.single.player. no matter how casual you are. Even if you log in for 1 hour a day or 10. The game systems were designed in a way where PVP events are timed/scheduled and along with everything else like crafting can be done in short bursts. You will need to communicate with others though to experience EVERYTHING the game has to offer BUT there are other ways to get what you need without ever stepping foot into those 'scary' places if you don't want to.. just like Albion.

borghive49

BruceYee said:

I have to include everything I plan to say here because after 1 post my account is required to fill out a captcha that just hangs indefinitely..

There is nothing to "recover" from. The vast majority of negative press this game has received is from people/companies with obvious agendas that know very little about the game. Their limited knowledge when passed on to people with even lesser knowledge looks like wisdom but is in fact pure agenda driven misinformation.

I will be unable to reply to anyone even to defend what I write because like I said after my 1st post in any thread I'm unable to post further.

There is a direct correlation between PVE players who never stop trying to tear CF down and not being able handle loss.. Which is what a full loot PVP mmo basically is and why they relentlessly attack it..

PVE players 'supposedly' had New World changed from a full loot pvp MMO to a pvp-lite MMO where you don't experience any great direct loss at the hands of another player/human being. Think about now how the same people who are now bashing CF are also the same people who can never admit they were wrong in threads even when provided factual information disproving their claims then will even resort to lies & insults to avoid defeat at all costs.

I thought hardcore full loot PVPers were supposed to be the nasty ones? Those meanie gankers that are always out to steal your stuff or "erase hours of your progress" but here we are where insecure PVE players are the ones in CF threads throwing out misinfo while there are almost zero CF 'hardcore ganker aholes' in NW threads bashing that game with lies and misinformation? Wanna know why? Because full loot pvpers deal with loss on a regular basis. Even the 'meanest' ganker losses sometimes... that's part of the fun. Imagine a chess game where no one loses... The loss that everyone claims is a negative for those who have no problem losing actually see the unknown pvp encounter as a challenge and not something to fear. Get it? Yes you may get ganked and you may lose some of your stuff but have you ever heard of "risk vs reward"? Sometimes the reward does outweigh the risk and with a game like CF that is in no way the hardest of hardcore full loot pvp games put many different features in place to prevent actual full loss. If you play smart and have situational awareness along with some social/communication skills then the risk part becomes even smaller.

CF has been improving the game with multiple patches non-stop since launch. There have been so many QOL improvements like animation updates, reducing tutorial time etc etc. None of those improvements are being spoken of anywhere which isn't surprising. The game IS improving weekly so don't let any posers make you believe the game is in bad shape because that is a lie.

I play CF daily in a BIG guild. I can answer your questions based on FACTS not one person's opinion based on casual solo play... I probably won't be able to respond in this thread for the reasons I mentioned above so feel free and send me a PM and if that's not being blocked as well I'll be able to help you the best I can. Anything and everything from solo play to how to progress beyond solo play etc etc

Also one other thing that certain people don't want you to know is that EVERYONE in this game is valuable... every.single.player. no matter how casual you are. Even if you log in for 1 hour a day or 10. The game systems were designed in a way where PVP events are timed/scheduled and along with everything else like crafting can be done in short bursts. You will need to communicate with others though to experience EVERYTHING the game has to offer BUT there are other ways to get what you need without ever stepping foot into those 'scary' places if you don't want to.. just like Albion.

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. Amazon was smart to change their game because hardcore PVP games usually have a tough time attracting new players after the initial rush and they don't have much mass appeal to being with. 

I've played Albion now for years and one of the top most requested things from the player base is for the developers to add more PVE content. 

Crowfall is never going to amount to anything either because it is lacking one of the biggest draws the PVP MMOers want and that is a persistent world like Eve and Albion have. 

I'd like to add as well that I think Archeage was probably the single best MMO that was ever made. Those developers nailed the perfect blend of PVE and PVP. It is too bad it was ruined by their horrible cash shop practices. I personally think the original Archeage beta is what MMO devs should try to mimic when making a new MMO. 

Slapshot1188

BruceYee said:

There is nothing to "recover" from. The vast majority of negative press this game has received is from people/companies with obvious agendas that know very little about the game. Their limited knowledge when passed on to people with even lesser knowledge looks like wisdom but is in fact pure agenda driven misinformation.

Sorry but this is simply not true.  At all.   Just like the whole Sky Point discussion from a few days ago.  I mean, if there is "nothing to recover from" then why do you have a whole paragraph explaining how many patches they have had and how much better it is getting.   That, quite literally demonstrates they are attempting to recover from launch issues...

Ungood

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

BruceYee said:

There is nothing to "recover" from. The vast majority of negative press this game has received is from people/companies with obvious agendas that know very little about the game. Their limited knowledge when passed on to people with even lesser knowledge looks like wisdom but is in fact pure agenda driven misinformation.

Sorry but this is simply not true.  At all.   Just like the whole Sky Point discussion from a few days ago.  I mean, if there is "nothing to recover from" then why do you have a whole paragraph explaining how many patches they have had and how much better it is getting.   That, quite literally demonstrates they are attempting to recover from launch issues...

When the hell did doing about as well as could be expected mean that there was nothing at all left to do? I mean really the doomboi's are really grasping at straws here.

Who even has a thought process that would go like "the game is doing about as well as hoped so far.. well time to fuck all and put it on maintenance mode, we done here, lets go make something else, like a BR or MOBA, or some porn or something" 

borghive49

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Apples and oranges lol. Drop in FPS PVP games are totally different games from full loot pvp mmos. I actually think it is pretty funny that you tried to compare Fortnite to a full loot PVP MMO. Like, that is probably one of the dumbest things I've read in some time. 

Sandmanjw

Very few games still sell well a few months after launch. I doubt NW delay will matter at all.

The people that wanted to try it out pretty much have by now.

Unless CF is some miracle type game like EVE or FF14 that defy the norm, and continue to grow for a few years, peak sales and players should be happening or already have  happened.

Hard to imagine that it will be able to keep growing, but stranger things have happened I guess.

Ungood

Zegaloth said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Fortnite isn't a hardcore game, which is why it has such mass appeal.

It's Full Loot, Perma Death, PvP.. 

But I guess that is not hardcore.. well shit.. I learned something new.

Ungood

borghive49 said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Apples and oranges lol. Drop in FPS PVP games are totally different games from full loot pvp mmos. I actually think it is pretty funny that you tried to compare Fortnite to a full loot PVP MMO. Like, that is probably one of the dumbest things I've read in some time. 

You know what's funny.

PvP games have a HUGE fucking following. Like, I think the biggest following in gaming as a whole comes from PvP games.

So.. What do you think it is about the MMO part of these PvP games that make them suddenly suck such big fat hairy balls?

borghive49

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Apples and oranges lol. Drop in FPS PVP games are totally different games from full loot pvp mmos. I actually think it is pretty funny that you tried to compare Fortnite to a full loot PVP MMO. Like, that is probably one of the dumbest things I've read in some time. 

You know what's funny.

PvP games have a HUGE fucking following. Like, I think the biggest following in gaming as a whole comes from PvP games.

So.. What do you think it is about the MMO part of these PvP games that make them suddenly suck such big fat hairy balls?

They are full loot dumb dumb. Only a small % of people who like PVP games actually like full loot pvp games. Again, trying to compare FPS PvP lobby games to a sandbox full loot pvp MMO is just silly. They are completely different games. 

Edit: Trying to compare Fortnite's full loot PVP to a game like Albion Online is silly as well. Completely different beasts. 

Ungood

borghive49 said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Apples and oranges lol. Drop in FPS PVP games are totally different games from full loot pvp mmos. I actually think it is pretty funny that you tried to compare Fortnite to a full loot PVP MMO. Like, that is probably one of the dumbest things I've read in some time. 

You know what's funny.

PvP games have a HUGE fucking following. Like, I think the biggest following in gaming as a whole comes from PvP games.

So.. What do you think it is about the MMO part of these PvP games that make them suddenly suck such big fat hairy balls?

They are full loot dumb dumb. Only a small % of people who like PVP games actually like full loot pvp games. Again, trying to compare FPS PvP lobby games to a sandbox full loot pvp MMO is just silly. They are completely different games. 

Edit: Trying to compare Fortnite's full loot PVP to a game like Albion Online is silly as well. Completely different beasts. 

People are comparing New World to Crowfall, which are two totally different style of games, yet I don't see you losing your shit about that. 

So.. again.. what do you think it is about the whole MMO part of a PvP game, that makes it less attractive then a straight up PvP.

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

Ungood said:

borghive49 said:

BruceYee said:

Your first mistake is thinking that there is much of any market for hardcore PVP MMOs in the first place. 

And yet.. some Battle Royal game like Fortnight had a 125 million players at it's peak, and still boasts around 80 million active players.

Apples and oranges lol. Drop in FPS PVP games are totally different games from full loot pvp mmos. I actually think it is pretty funny that you tried to compare Fortnite to a full loot PVP MMO. Like, that is probably one of the dumbest things I've read in some time. 

You know what's funny.

PvP games have a HUGE fucking following. Like, I think the biggest following in gaming as a whole comes from PvP games.

So.. What do you think it is about the MMO part of these PvP games that make them suddenly suck such big fat hairy balls?

They are full loot dumb dumb. Only a small % of people who like PVP games actually like full loot pvp games. Again, trying to compare FPS PvP lobby games to a sandbox full loot pvp MMO is just silly. They are completely different games. 

Edit: Trying to compare Fortnite's full loot PVP to a game like Albion Online is silly as well. Completely different beasts. 

People are comparing New World to Crowfall, which are two totally different style of games, yet I don't see you losing your shit about that. 

The "people" doing it are the C and D Tier Streamers paid by Artcraft to do so...