There wouldn't be that many WoW clones if developers are not checking the trends in gaming.
I find it very hard to believe that developers are in their own bubble and not aware of what games are popular. In all likelihood they are making games they want to make.
I find the fact that glaringly lessons from the past are sometimes ignored quite astonishing. They must know MMO history so other factors are overriding their decisions like you say. CF launching with multiple server types when they knew the population was not going to be high was unfathomable. AoC got away with that for example but they knew it was going to have a big population base.
With the way that MMO developers approach their customers, I have serious doubts that any form of market research is ever done in game development. The devs all seem to take the approach that they will build a game they want to play. Then they act surprised that is a very small community. Any successful business has to know their customers and what they want.
Yes I agree with you here, no research at all, or they refuse to believe the research information that is out there. I am confused though because generally many of these programmers come from engineering and at least science backgrounds for the most part. I know from school that some of them can be stubborn sure, but in any programming class there will be at least a few people with very good common sense and you really don't get through these engineering/science classes without some decent problem solving skills. So how do they just keep banging their head up against this wall all the time repeating the same obvious game killing mistakes?
Why are the managers with real solutions not being heard.
Are these people just in their own bubble with the fanboys telling them how they are gods and all their ideas are amazing, then alpha/beta/launch happens and they are totally shocked?
I get they want to create their own thing, but I doubt they want to lose their life savings over it. Many of these people are working low/no pay for years just for the hopes of a major hit.
I did read a post where I Dev from Crowfall claims his code is the basis of most the game and was fired recently, he said he was a millionaire already and didn't even care because other companies are paying more than he's making. That does imply he is not doing it solely for money. Also shows he is tone-deaf, because he is trying to claim credit for a failed game, not even aware how few people even like the game.
Sure is mind boggling to me.
To be fair, being a brilliant coder, and a brilliant designer have nothing in common.
Just like, when I build something, I build it to what the client wants, and I build it well, that does not mean I think what the client wanted wasn't an ugly ass piece of shit, it just means, I built them a well made ugly ass piece of shit, and my next client knows I do good work, so, just because that project was ugly, I still have plenty of work lined up.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Maybe its more psychological. People want to be able to make their own fun, and the the majority this fun relies on other people wanting to be douchebags too and when everyone is ganking/griefing and doing other douchebaggery stuff, well the fun ends.
I'd like to apologize for continuing to go back to this point.
I really dislike progression expressed by levels. Not only does this absolutely doom an open world PvP game but I'd argue it is really bad for PvE games as well. There is no immersion with 'levels' - it is a lazy mechanic that should have died out a long time ago.
Skill systems are much better - showing progression by faction with a community - even filling out a map as you explore - all of these are so much better and can be rolled into the lore/exploration of the game.
Take the idea of a person who created a sword is the most capable of using it effectively. That is something that would help with a PvP game but I think it is an idea that would make PvE more engaging as well (crafting would be more rewarding). Tying the use of magic to standing with a diety could also help balance PvP - but also offers all kinds of questing opportunities for PvE - have you ever played a game where a player refused to eat certain types of food because it would harm standing with his diety?
I really believe that solving the "problem" of open world PvP could force creative design choices that may end up making a game better for everyone.... especially if the goal is immersion/lore/fun instead of punishment.
Or we could just cough up another level based theme park.
Whatever.
Because there are a bunch of people that cry about how UO & DAOC was the best games ever, so, as opposed to doing something new, they try to copy those games, and realize that those games were only somewhat remotely popular because they had limited competition, and were very unique for their time.
If they were released today, they would be DOA failed games, because they have everything wrong with them that is wrong with all modern PvP MMO's, which is why all the MMO's that are supposed to be their succors fail and suck.
But still many look back on them with rose colored goggles, wondering why they did right.
The only thing they did right, was being the first of their kind, that is the only reason they had a minicom of success.
But at the end of the day, they were nothing compared to a game like EQ.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I'd like to apologize for continuing to go back to this point.
I really dislike progression expressed by levels. Not only does this absolutely doom an open world PvP game but I'd argue it is really bad for PvE games as well. There is no immersion with 'levels' - it is a lazy mechanic that should have died out a long time ago.
Skill systems are much better - showing progression by faction with a community - even filling out a map as you explore - all of these are so much better and can be rolled into the lore/exploration of the game.
Take the idea of a person who created a sword is the most capable of using it effectively. That is something that would help with a PvP game but I think it is an idea that would make PvE more engaging as well (crafting would be more rewarding). Tying the use of magic to standing with a diety could also help balance PvP - but also offers all kinds of questing opportunities for PvE - have you ever played a game where a player refused to eat certain types of food because it would harm standing with his diety?
I really believe that solving the "problem" of open world PvP could force creative design choices that may end up making a game better for everyone.... especially if the goal is immersion/lore/fun instead of punishment.
Or we could just cough up another level based theme park.
Whatever.
Because there are a bunch of people that cry about how UO & DAOC was the best games ever, so, as opposed to doing something new, they try to copy those games, and realize that those games were only somewhat remotely popular because they had limited competition, and were very unique for their time.
I'd agree that is a very large problem.
ESO is made by a DAoC designer. ESO is probably game closest to DAoC as far as design goes. ESO is unquestionably a massively successful game.
With all due respect, if someone wants to lump in DAoC with a full loot open world PvP game, they are utterly wrong. I mean, in DAoC you could literally hit max level and have a great time and never once even engage in a PvP battle at all...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They all think they have the magic solution to protecting pve players while allowing pvp players total freedom to murder other players - This will never ever work! Not to mention, why would a pve player want to play half a game (because the other half of the resources is used to make a pvp game); be content or crafting servants for pvp players; be forced into a system that never actually protects them from getting killed; being denied the end game or zones because of risk vs rewards defined from pvp players perspective.
If you make a pvp game, make it about pvp .. And that means, and I am sorry to say this, that MMORPG is a poor choice of genre.
Sometimes you just have to accept that developers don't care or want to listen to what the masses want. The developers set out to design the game they want and if that includes FL PvP, so be it you're not the intended market.
All these PVP devs talking about how the entire MMO's genre is dead because they cant get any people to play their trashy griefest/gankfest hardcore PVP game. If you want lots of customers then make a game that appeals to lots of customers.
I'm totally shocked that they keep trying the same exact thing.
How does it not occur to them that a level 75 is going to wtfpwn level 1 characters for lulz all day long?
This is the problem with building a PvP RPG.
If you approach the game from a PvP point of view, you absolutely know that having vertical progression is a mistake.
But, if you approach the game from an RPG point of view, you know that the vast majority of gamers incorrectly associate levels with roleplaying and would be unlikely to play an RPG that didn't include vertical progression.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Sometimes you just have to accept that developers don't care or want to listen to what the masses want. The developers set out to design the game they want and if that includes FL PvP, so be it you're not the intended market.
All these PVP devs talking about how the entire MMO's genre is dead because they cant get any people to play their trashy griefest/gankfest hardcore PVP game. If you want lots of customers then make a game that appeals to lots of customers.
I'm totally shocked that they keep trying the same exact thing.
How does it not occur to them that a level 75 is going to wtfpwn level 1 characters for lulz all day long?
THeres alot of bullies out there....In games and in real life too
I'd like to apologize for continuing to go back to this point.
I really dislike progression expressed by levels. Not only does this absolutely doom an open world PvP game but I'd argue it is really bad for PvE games as well. There is no immersion with 'levels' - it is a lazy mechanic that should have died out a long time ago.
Skill systems are much better - showing progression by faction with a community - even filling out a map as you explore - all of these are so much better and can be rolled into the lore/exploration of the game.
Take the idea of a person who created a sword is the most capable of using it effectively. That is something that would help with a PvP game but I think it is an idea that would make PvE more engaging as well (crafting would be more rewarding). Tying the use of magic to standing with a diety could also help balance PvP - but also offers all kinds of questing opportunities for PvE - have you ever played a game where a player refused to eat certain types of food because it would harm standing with his diety?
I really believe that solving the "problem" of open world PvP could force creative design choices that may end up making a game better for everyone.... especially if the goal is immersion/lore/fun instead of punishment.
Or we could just cough up another level based theme park.
Whatever.
Because there are a bunch of people that cry about how UO & DAOC was the best games ever, so, as opposed to doing something new, they try to copy those games, and realize that those games were only somewhat remotely popular because they had limited competition, and were very unique for their time.
I'd agree that is a very large problem.
ESO is made by a DAoC designer. ESO is probably game closest to DAoC as far as design goes. ESO is unquestionably a massively successful game.
With all due respect, if someone wants to lump in DAoC with a full loot open world PvP game, they are utterly wrong. I mean, in DAoC you could literally hit max level and have a great time and never once even engage in a PvP battle at all...
Played DAoC. Never did any PvP.
DAOC and ESO are cases where the PvP is done right. It's optional. And of course, not full loot.
Games where PvP is optional, and the rewards for winning help your entire faction, are popular. Give people a reason to PvP, and the option to do it when they want to, and it sells very well.
Full loot can also work well, again when the PvP is optional and there is a good reason to want to do it. Like in PoTBS or EvE.
I'd like to apologize for continuing to go back to this point.
I really dislike progression expressed by levels. Not only does this absolutely doom an open world PvP game but I'd argue it is really bad for PvE games as well. There is no immersion with 'levels' - it is a lazy mechanic that should have died out a long time ago.
Skill systems are much better - showing progression by faction with a community - even filling out a map as you explore - all of these are so much better and can be rolled into the lore/exploration of the game.
Take the idea of a person who created a sword is the most capable of using it effectively. That is something that would help with a PvP game but I think it is an idea that would make PvE more engaging as well (crafting would be more rewarding). Tying the use of magic to standing with a diety could also help balance PvP - but also offers all kinds of questing opportunities for PvE - have you ever played a game where a player refused to eat certain types of food because it would harm standing with his diety?
I really believe that solving the "problem" of open world PvP could force creative design choices that may end up making a game better for everyone.... especially if the goal is immersion/lore/fun instead of punishment.
Or we could just cough up another level based theme park.
Whatever.
Because there are a bunch of people that cry about how UO & DAOC was the best games ever, so, as opposed to doing something new, they try to copy those games, and realize that those games were only somewhat remotely popular because they had limited competition, and were very unique for their time.
I'd agree that is a very large problem.
ESO is made by a DAoC designer. ESO is probably game closest to DAoC as far as design goes. ESO is unquestionably a massively successful game.
With all due respect, if someone wants to lump in DAoC with a full loot open world PvP game, they are utterly wrong. I mean, in DAoC you could literally hit max level and have a great time and never once even engage in a PvP battle at all...
Played DAoC. Never did any PvP.
DAOC and ESO are cases where the PvP is done right. It's optional. And of course, not full loot.
Games where PvP is optional, and the rewards for winning help your entire faction, are popular. Give people a reason to PvP, and the option to do it when they want to, and it sells very well.
Full loot can also work well, again when the PvP is optional and there is a good reason to want to do it. Like in PoTBS or EvE.
Yeah I am pretty sure that the guy who made the statement about DAoC never played it
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Sometimes you just have to accept that developers don't care or want to listen to what the masses want. The developers set out to design the game they want and if that includes FL PvP, so be it you're not the intended market.
All these PVP devs talking about how the entire MMO's genre is dead because they cant get any people to play their trashy griefest/gankfest hardcore PVP game. If you want lots of customers then make a game that appeals to lots of customers.
I'm totally shocked that they keep trying the same exact thing.
How does it not occur to them that a level 75 is going to wtfpwn level 1 characters for lulz all day long?
THeres alot of bullies out there....In games and in real life too
How about this? If you kill a player who is lower than you and had no real chance, you are flagged as an outlaw and burdened with guilt. So burdened that you are over-encumbered and can only walk very slowly for the next 10 minutes. That makes you an easy target for the bounty hunters.
I'd like to apologize for continuing to go back to this point.
I really dislike progression expressed by levels. Not only does this absolutely doom an open world PvP game but I'd argue it is really bad for PvE games as well. There is no immersion with 'levels' - it is a lazy mechanic that should have died out a long time ago.
Skill systems are much better - showing progression by faction with a community - even filling out a map as you explore - all of these are so much better and can be rolled into the lore/exploration of the game.
Take the idea of a person who created a sword is the most capable of using it effectively. That is something that would help with a PvP game but I think it is an idea that would make PvE more engaging as well (crafting would be more rewarding). Tying the use of magic to standing with a diety could also help balance PvP - but also offers all kinds of questing opportunities for PvE - have you ever played a game where a player refused to eat certain types of food because it would harm standing with his diety?
I really believe that solving the "problem" of open world PvP could force creative design choices that may end up making a game better for everyone.... especially if the goal is immersion/lore/fun instead of punishment.
Or we could just cough up another level based theme park.
Whatever.
Because there are a bunch of people that cry about how UO & DAOC was the best games ever, so, as opposed to doing something new, they try to copy those games, and realize that those games were only somewhat remotely popular because they had limited competition, and were very unique for their time.
I'd agree that is a very large problem.
ESO is made by a DAoC designer. ESO is probably game closest to DAoC as far as design goes. ESO is unquestionably a massively successful game.
With all due respect, if someone wants to lump in DAoC with a full loot open world PvP game, they are utterly wrong. I mean, in DAoC you could literally hit max level and have a great time and never once even engage in a PvP battle at all...
Played DAoC. Never did any PvP.
DAOC and ESO are cases where the PvP is done right. It's optional. And of course, not full loot.
Games where PvP is optional, and the rewards for winning help your entire faction, are popular. Give people a reason to PvP, and the option to do it when they want to, and it sells very well.
Full loot can also work well, again when the PvP is optional and there is a good reason to want to do it. Like in PoTBS or EvE.
Yeah I am pretty sure that the guy who made the statement about DAoC never played it
I had a blast in DAOC in PvP. I started playing in 2001, and PvP'd with my minstrel when he hit level 45 or so. One of my favorite times was when our little guild took our first keep.
I also remember Xsyon, a full loot open-world PvP game where a high level player camped at the respawn point. You die, respawn, and he kills you. You respawn, and he kills you. You respawn .... and then decide to just quit this stupid game.
Sometimes you just have to accept that developers don't care or want to listen to what the masses want. The developers set out to design the game they want and if that includes FL PvP, so be it you're not the intended market.
All these PVP devs talking about how the entire MMO's genre is dead because they cant get any people to play their trashy griefest/gankfest hardcore PVP game. If you want lots of customers then make a game that appeals to lots of customers.
I'm totally shocked that they keep trying the same exact thing.
How does it not occur to them that a level 75 is going to wtfpwn level 1 characters for lulz all day long?
There are several issues here.
First off, if you have issues with being twfpwn'ed by a lvl 75 you wouldn't be playing the game.
In lineage 2 we would have high levels come to the noob towns and take people out and we were like sea turtles trying to get to the ocean when we left the city - all run enmasse they can't get all of us.
That was the game.
And then we leveled so we were high enough to take care of ourselves and definitely joined a guild.
However, it's a good point in that developers need to be realistic about player population in their games. Especially if they don't have a lot of money and they can't make a high-quality game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
First off, if you have issues with being twfpwn'ed by a lvl 75 you wouldn't be playing the game.
In lineage 2 we would have high levels come to the noob towns and take people out and we were like sea turtles trying to get to the ocean when we left the city - all run enmasse they can't get all of us.
That was the game.
And then we leveled so we were high enough to take care of ourselves and definitely joined a guild.
However, it's a good point in that developers need to be realistic about player population in their games. Especially if they don't have a lot of money and they can't make a high-quality game.
Not to be a bum, but the old days are gone. The current player base would not tolerate such behaviour.
In the past, there weren't that many choices to play mmorpgs so you either sucked it up or not played anything at all. Now there's way too many games catering to almost every playstyle for someone to stick with a game they find frustrating.
Let's take one of the primary advantages of the PK: Attacking someone already engaged with a MOB. (None of these guys are really into fair fights)
Make is so wildlife in the area automatically attacks PKs (with bonuses) just like monsters attack players - that way, I as a lumberjack have a chance of running across a PK in the woods who is already engaged with two bears and I get to whack his butt for once. Animals can also "sniff out" hidden PKs and wolves auto track them.
^--- That seems like a non-punitive way to help out with PKs that would tuck nicely into the lore.
Back in the day on the DAOC PVP server Mordred they designed it so if a player engaged in fighting a NPC was attacked by another player the NPC's aggro meter was reset and would randomly choose which person to attack.
Also, the defender's heath was fully reset to 100% so both of these mechanics leveled the playing field quite a bit, at least in terms of reducing the advantage of surprise that most games give.
Never have seen these mechanics since, not even in the free shards which came out later but probably because most of them use the RVR code / rulesets and it definitely was a Mordred exclusive feature.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First off, if you have issues with being twfpwn'ed by a lvl 75 you wouldn't be playing the game.
In lineage 2 we would have high levels come to the noob towns and take people out and we were like sea turtles trying to get to the ocean when we left the city - all run enmasse they can't get all of us.
That was the game.
And then we leveled so we were high enough to take care of ourselves and definitely joined a guild.
However, it's a good point in that developers need to be realistic about player population in their games. Especially if they don't have a lot of money and they can't make a high-quality game.
Not to be a bum, but the old days are gone. The current player base would not tolerate such behaviour.
In the past, there weren't that many choices to play mmorpgs so you either sucked it up or not played anything at all. Now there's way too many games catering to almost every playstyle for someone to stick with a game they find frustrating.
But the old players are not gone.
Developers need to know who they are making their games for and realistically figure out if they can make their game given their current player base.
Look, there are people playing EVE. There are people showing up for Mortal Online 2 beta. There are players.
Now the developers have to develop for those players and be able to make the game they want given how much they will realistically make.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
First off, if you have issues with being twfpwn'ed by a lvl 75 you wouldn't be playing the game.
In lineage 2 we would have high levels come to the noob towns and take people out and we were like sea turtles trying to get to the ocean when we left the city - all run enmasse they can't get all of us.
That was the game.
And then we leveled so we were high enough to take care of ourselves and definitely joined a guild.
However, it's a good point in that developers need to be realistic about player population in their games. Especially if they don't have a lot of money and they can't make a high-quality game.
Not to be a bum, but the old days are gone. The current player base would not tolerate such behaviour.
In the past, there weren't that many choices to play mmorpgs so you either sucked it up or not played anything at all. Now there's way too many games catering to almost every playstyle for someone to stick with a game they find frustrating.
But the old players are not gone.
Developers need to know who they are making their games for and realistically figure out if they can make their game given their current player base.
Look, there are people playing EVE. There are people showing up for Mortal Online 2 beta. There are players.
Now the developers have to develop for those players and be able to make the game they want given how much they will realistically make.
Some (probably many) of these old players are too busy with life now to waste their precious time being ganked. When I was younger I had no issues spending hours to form parties to grinding for hours in the same spot to gain levels. Now? there's no way in hell I'm going to do that when I can play other games that are more user friendly.
Time is precious, I as probably many others don't want to waste their couple hours of playtime being frustrated.
Comments
Just like, when I build something, I build it to what the client wants, and I build it well, that does not mean I think what the client wanted wasn't an ugly ass piece of shit, it just means, I built them a well made ugly ass piece of shit, and my next client knows I do good work, so, just because that project was ugly, I still have plenty of work lined up.
If they were released today, they would be DOA failed games, because they have everything wrong with them that is wrong with all modern PvP MMO's, which is why all the MMO's that are supposed to be their succors fail and suck.
But still many look back on them with rose colored goggles, wondering why they did right.
The only thing they did right, was being the first of their kind, that is the only reason they had a minicom of success.
But at the end of the day, they were nothing compared to a game like EQ.
With all due respect, if someone wants to lump in DAoC with a full loot open world PvP game, they are utterly wrong. I mean, in DAoC you could literally hit max level and have a great time and never once even engage in a PvP battle at all...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not to mention, why would a pve player want to play half a game (because the other half of the resources is used to make a pvp game); be content or crafting servants for pvp players; be forced into a system that never actually protects them from getting killed; being denied the end game or zones because of risk vs rewards defined from pvp players perspective.
If you make a pvp game, make it about pvp .. And that means, and I am sorry to say this, that MMORPG is a poor choice of genre.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
THeres alot of bullies out there....In games and in real life too
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
How about this? If you kill a player who is lower than you and had no real chance, you are flagged as an outlaw and burdened with guilt. So burdened that you are over-encumbered and can only walk very slowly for the next 10 minutes. That makes you an easy target for the bounty hunters.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
First off, if you have issues with being twfpwn'ed by a lvl 75 you wouldn't be playing the game.
In lineage 2 we would have high levels come to the noob towns and take people out and we were like sea turtles trying to get to the ocean when we left the city - all run enmasse they can't get all of us.
That was the game.
And then we leveled so we were high enough to take care of ourselves and definitely joined a guild.
However, it's a good point in that developers need to be realistic about player population in their games. Especially if they don't have a lot of money and they can't make a high-quality game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
In the past, there weren't that many choices to play mmorpgs so you either sucked it up or not played anything at all. Now there's way too many games catering to almost every playstyle for someone to stick with a game they find frustrating.
Also, the defender's heath was fully reset to 100% so both of these mechanics leveled the playing field quite a bit, at least in terms of reducing the advantage of surprise that most games give.
Never have seen these mechanics since, not even in the free shards which came out later but probably because most of them use the RVR code / rulesets and it definitely was a Mordred exclusive feature.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Developers need to know who they are making their games for and realistically figure out if they can make their game given their current player base.
Look, there are people playing EVE. There are people showing up for Mortal Online 2 beta. There are players.
Now the developers have to develop for those players and be able to make the game they want given how much they will realistically make.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Time is precious, I as probably many others don't want to waste their couple hours of playtime being frustrated.