New World - 50v50 War lag exploit destroying servers

TwistedSister77

The hottest discussed thread right now are factions purposely lagging wars to win.  

It's spreading fast to a lot of servers as word has gotten out on the tactic.

https://forums.newworld.com/t/lag-war-exploit-needs-fix-now/341057/55

Territories are flipping... progress erased... as you stand frozen against the other team and melt.

"Make them lag... AOEs AOEs... get 50 players on the point"  video:

https://clips.twitch.tv/GiftedEncouragingCrabsSoBayed-mDGthlPojCda7y7P?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api

More videos like this.

How could Amazon New World be unable to handle 50 v 50 particle effects?  Amazon is silent on this or any fixes.  

(PS - I'm enjoying NW, but this is bad... our faction works its arse off to grind up settlements... and this end game PvP is not enjoyable).

cheyane

This is an interesting game release because after so many years playing MMORPGs I am finally seeing and understanding the pitfalls games fall into. As the weeks from launch march on we are seeing more and more things that the developers didn't see or realise that players can break or strain.

Scorchien

Trash RvR systems is what they have. They are glorified BGs , not RvR .. 

cheyane

What is sad is that this type of thing is not about PvP at all. It is just about winning at any cost which includes exploits. This isn't fair play or using your skills and fighting well. May be that is why games like Dark Age of Camelot is still lauded for the PvP. 

One can also attribute this to the rise of Twitch and other platforms that focus on showing how to win. This will inevitably lead to people using and trying to dominate to get more clicks.

JeroKane

cheyane said:

This is an interesting game release because after so many years playing MMORPGs I am finally seeing and understanding the pitfalls games fall into. As the weeks from launch march on we are seeing more and more things that the developers didn't see or realise that players can break or strain.

It's because the devs are inexperienced and clueless. So many "rookie" mistakes have been made in this game.

So many PVP centric MMO's have gone before them. Almost all of them failed. So they had plenty of examples to learn from and not make the same mistakes over and over.

They didn't.

Literally the only good decision they made, was having 3 factions. That's about it.

And even that they messed up, where you see on many servers that one single faction becomes so dominant that its being able to wipe out the other two factions.
Simply because there is literally ZERO reason and incentive to fight back in this game. Nor are there any mitigations in place.

So on many servers you start to see a huge imbalance between factions, where losing factions simply don't bother to fight back. They either quit the server and find another one, or reroll their character to join the dominant winning faction. Making the situation even worse.
This is happening on both servers I am on myself.

I think Amazon is very well aware of this situation and most likely why they are scared to offer the promised free transfers now, as it would become a mess.

laserit

Criticism is a much tastier dish if one sprinkles a few possible solutions onto the plate.

cheyane

JeroKane said:

cheyane said:

This is an interesting game release because after so many years playing MMORPGs I am finally seeing and understanding the pitfalls games fall into. As the weeks from launch march on we are seeing more and more things that the developers didn't see or realise that players can break or strain.

It's because the devs are inexperienced and clueless. So many "rookie" mistakes have been made in this game.

So many PVP centric MMO's have gone before them. Almost all of them failed. So they had plenty of examples to learn from and not make the same mistakes over and over.

They didn't.

Literally the only good decision they made, was having 3 factions. That's about it.

And even that they messed up, where you see on many servers that one single faction becomes so dominant that its being able to wipe out the other two factions.
Simply because there is literally ZERO reason and incentive to fight back in this game. Nor are there any mitigations in place.

So on many servers you start to see a huge imbalance between factions, where losing factions simply don't bother to fight back. They either quit the server and find another one, or reroll their character to join the dominant winning faction. Making the situation even worse.
This is happening on both servers I am on myself.

I think Amazon is very well aware of this situation and most likely why they are scared to offer the promised free transfers now, as it would become a mess.

I've tried playing on the losing faction on a WoW server on EU Emerald Dream years ago when the BGs were separate. I was a Horde shaman and if we had a Warsong or Arathi Basin BG we often won but outside it was miserable. Almost nothing on the AH and grouping for dungeons were scarce because the population on Horde side was too low. I eventually quit playing the Horde toon and went with an Alliance priest. If it had been a PvP server I probably wouldn't have lasted even that long on that Shaman.

laserit

Your dealing with human nature. You have to make losing just as much fun as winning (physiologically) 

Figuring that one out is the answer to the billion dollar question.

 Imho

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Iselin

We lower our graphics settings for wars and turn down nameplates to minimum (nameplates have a mysteriously HUGE impact on FPS) and I have been in 7 Wars so far where there has been a lot of people clumped together at times with all the popular AOEs happening (Gravity Well and Ice Storm being by far the most popular - both of which have built in roots and movement slowing as part of the skill effect, BTW) and I have yet to experience any of this 50 v. 50 lag all the reddit trolls cool kids are whining about and neither has anyone else in our 50 v. 50s judging by our discord chat.

As always, don't believe everything you read on the internet and YMMV.

Theocritus

cheyane said:

This is an interesting game release because after so many years playing MMORPGs I am finally seeing and understanding the pitfalls games fall into. As the weeks from launch march on we are seeing more and more things that the developers didn't see or realise that players can break or strain.

Gamers always look for ways to cheat and exploit, at least many of the hardcore ones do that feel they have to "win" at all costs......

Djijin

Sweaty, meta players at it again.

And the developers will likely listen to them and ruin their own game just like Blizzard did.

TwistedSister77

Iselin said:

We lower our graphics settings for wars and turn down nameplates to minimum (nameplates have a mysteriously HUGE impact on FPS) and I have been in 7 Wars so far where there has been a lot of people clumped together at times with all the popular AOEs happening (Gravity Well and Ice Storm being by far the most popular - both of which have built in roots and movement slowing as part of the skill effect, BTW) and I have yet to experience any of this 50 v. 50 lag all the reddit trolls cool kids are whining about and neither has anyone else in our 50 v. 50s judging by our discord chat.

As always, don't believe everything you read on the internet and YMMV.

I linked the thread on Amazons NW bug and exploits section(not reddit). Obviously you did not read it or view the videos.

Literally there are videos from multiple servers and it keeps growing... yes don't believe your lying eyes... when 50 players lag out (and they post videos).  Don't believe watching videos where literally the commanders calls for strategies to purposely lag out the other team (and it works).  

I hope the strat doesn't appear on your server, but you're lucky.  The day you see all 50 players on 1 point spamming AOE... you'll know what's up.

This is server side... with the best rig, bandwidth, and low settings... it will happen.  

Iselin

TwistedSister77 said:

Iselin said:

We lower our graphics settings for wars and turn down nameplates to minimum (nameplates have a mysteriously HUGE impact on FPS) and I have been in 7 Wars so far where there has been a lot of people clumped together at times with all the popular AOEs happening (Gravity Well and Ice Storm being by far the most popular - both of which have built in roots and movement slowing as part of the skill effect, BTW) and I have yet to experience any of this 50 v. 50 lag all the reddit trolls cool kids are whining about and neither has anyone else in our 50 v. 50s judging by our discord chat.

As always, don't believe everything you read on the internet and YMMV.

I linked the thread on Amazons NW bug and exploits section(not reddit). Obviously you did not read it or view the videos.

Literally there are videos from multiple servers and it keeps growing... yes don't believe your lying eyes... when 50 players lag out (and they post videos).  Don't believe watching videos where literally the commanders calls for strategies to purposely lag out the other team (and it works).  

I hope the strat doesn't appear on your server, but you're lucky.  The day you see all 50 players on 1 point spamming AOE... you'll know what's up.

This is server side... with the best rig, bandwidth, and low settings... it will happen.  

I have seen the videos multiple times both on reddit and the official forums (same videos) and the one with the guy on voice shouting "make them lag" which is a week-old video BTW so you're late to the party.

Like I said 7 wars here and none of that shit despite tons of AOE... I must just be blessed I guess when my own actual, hands-on, experience doesn't jive with the social media hysteria.

How many wars have you personally fought in? Did this happen to you?

Amaranthar

TwistedSister77 said:

Iselin said:

We lower our graphics settings for wars and turn down nameplates to minimum (nameplates have a mysteriously HUGE impact on FPS) and I have been in 7 Wars so far where there has been a lot of people clumped together at times with all the popular AOEs happening (Gravity Well and Ice Storm being by far the most popular - both of which have built in roots and movement slowing as part of the skill effect, BTW) and I have yet to experience any of this 50 v. 50 lag all the reddit trolls cool kids are whining about and neither has anyone else in our 50 v. 50s judging by our discord chat.

As always, don't believe everything you read on the internet and YMMV.

I linked the thread on Amazons NW bug and exploits section(not reddit). Obviously you did not read it or view the videos.

Literally there are videos from multiple servers and it keeps growing... yes don't believe your lying eyes... when 50 players lag out (and they post videos).  Don't believe watching videos where literally the commanders calls for strategies to purposely lag out the other team (and it works).  

I hope the strat doesn't appear on your server, but you're lucky.  The day you see all 50 players on 1 point spamming AOE... you'll know what's up.

This is server side... with the best rig, bandwidth, and low settings... it will happen.  

I gave you an "insightful" for most of this. 
But if the lag is server side, you have to wonder why it's only affecting one faction. 
It's possible, I guess, but curious. 
I think this will get fixed fairly quickly. 
That game play isn't for me, anyways, nor is the game. So I don't really care. 

Vrika

Wargfoot said:

On a serious note: Isn't all the graphic stuff happening client side?  I don't see why the server would care if it was an explosion vs. a single arrow being fired.

Apparently New World has also had problems with projectiles. From their 1.0.1 patch notes:

"Changed turret projectiles in War from physical projectiles to use hitscan detection. This should help performance in War, with fewer objects being spawned in the world"

Iselin

Torval said:

There is a lot of misinformation floating around.

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was...

---Talking Heads

Iselin

Torval said:

There was a fairly lengthy discussion about this in Faction Chat last night. The overall conclusion by most war participants and some of the big guild leaders is that the complaints are vastly exaggerated. No one in our faction has lost a territory or war to this tactic.

Some people have been affected by AoE spam, but it was also acknowledged that dumping a ton of AoE on a zergball is a totally legit tactic. Generally many felt like it is on Amazon to fix any performance issues.

It's not only legit, it has been the go-to strategy for zerg v. zerg PvP dating back to my days in DAoC. Anti-zerg AOE is used in every RvR game I have ever played and that's pretty well all of them.

It caused problems in DAoC and it still to this day, causes performance issues in ESO Cyrodiil fights to the point that devs there are forever tweaking the max numbers of people that can be affected by AOE in order to cut down on some of the info that need to be processed.

In New World the first stage of a War is to fight over control of 3 flags. The attackers need to take all 3 before they can attack the fort gates, The way you take control of a flag is by standing within a smallish circle around it. The way you stop them from taking the flag is by the defenders having even more people also standing in the same circle. WTF did anyone think would happen there but zerg v. zerg with every AOE skill anyone has being spammed?

None of this is even remotely new nor specific to New World.

olepi

Something I learned about office space long ago:

If you like your space, get over it, It will change.

If you don't like your space, get over it, It will change.

Amaranthar

Iselin said:

Torval said:

There was a fairly lengthy discussion about this in Faction Chat last night. The overall conclusion by most war participants and some of the big guild leaders is that the complaints are vastly exaggerated. No one in our faction has lost a territory or war to this tactic.

Some people have been affected by AoE spam, but it was also acknowledged that dumping a ton of AoE on a zergball is a totally legit tactic. Generally many felt like it is on Amazon to fix any performance issues.

It's not only legit, it has been the go-to strategy for zerg v. zerg PvP dating back to my days in DAoC. Anti-zerg AOE is used in every RvR game I have ever played and that's pretty well all of them.

It caused problems in DAoC and it still to this day, causes performance issues in ESO Cyrodiil fights to the point that devs there are forever tweaking the max numbers of people that can be affected by AOE in order to cut down on some of the info that need to be processed.

In New World the first stage of a War is to fight over control of 3 flags. The attackers need to take all 3 before they can attack the fort gates, The way you take control of a flag is by standing within a smallish circle around it. The way you stop them from taking the flag is by the defenders having even more people also standing in the same circle. WTF did anyone think would happen there but zerg v. zerg with every AOE skill anyone has being spammed?

None of this is even remotely new nor specific to New World.

It even goes back to UO.
Earliest mass AoE spam I saw was a guild battle where our guild went to their base houses for a battle. 
They had houses in a circle with a "yard" between.
The space between houses was exactly what an Earthquake Spell covered. 
They had Mages in a locked house, and opened a gate in the middle of the yard, popped in to cast their Earthquake Spells and then hopped back inside the house for safety. 
Rinse and repeat, while we were occupied with their guildmates outside and taking damage there too. Their guildmates knew what was happening and kept just outside the Earthquake radius as much as possible, but we didn't know exactly what was going on.
We walked home in ghost form. 

That was actually a brilliant strategy.