More along the lines of NFT's will be a used in a lot of different ways. Cosmetics aren't really pictures, but stating they aren't valuable pretty much negates the current premise of the most prized cash shop monetization in the industry right now, so I probably wouldn't dive too deep into that one.
Don't see how cash-shop cosmetic only is okay but NFT cosmetic-only isn't okay.
But people will feel how they want to feel.
Well maybe one day your frying pan won't really be your frying pan and your hair dryer won't really be your hair dryer.
You will just have permission to use it.
Oh wait....
I think we might have some laws and regulations against that sort of thing. Although there are some loopholes around it.
Unless that is, you make things that are make believe, entertainment
Your selling worse than cheap dollar store manufactured goods. Imho this copyright bullshit needs to go, there are books and works of art and then there is everything else.
If you haven't noticed things aren't looking very stable these days.
Time for some revisions imho
I mean, your perspective is definitely different than mine.
I'm just saying, all things created equal in virtual goods, one nft cosmetic cash shop to one non-nft cash shop is pretty much the same thing... well, to a point at least.
There are some massive issues that I have in those regards, but they aren't really with NFTs specifically, just how they use them.
My perspective is definitely different than yours.
Your competing with others but you get special rules.
I dunno, innovation in monetization has long been the leading news in gaming for over a decade now, far out stripping interesting new game play.
It's clear they've drawn the players into the web now.... more dark times ahead I fear.
How is it so hard for people to understand that the AAA megacorp old guard gaming industry had no active role in the creation of this new gaming 'genre'.... The indirect role they played was the terrible decisions they made over decades fleecing gamers + churning out mediocrity leaving a HUGE opening for people with brains/ideas/innovation to swoop in and succeed.
"It's clear they've drawn the players into the web now.... more dark times ahead I fear."
If there was a web players were drawn into they're breaking free of it now and realizing all the money they spent to 'buy' things they never ownmay not have contributed to the betterment of gaming but rather just the lining of game company CEO's pockets...
THIS IS NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE * THIS IS NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE
If a handful of Vietnamese indie devs can create a game that pays people to play while also maintaining 2 million+ players each monthvs AGS losing 90%+ of players 2 months after launch in a game that cost 500mil+ to make thensomething undeniable + amazing is happening. That extra bonus of being able to make even $1.00 in a minimalist game is worth more than all the fancy gfx, streamer praise and bags of money the richest company in the world can put up.
In the future a nickel or a quarter might be being deducted from your bank account using blockchain for the honour of using that image
Except nothing about the smart contract implies that you can sell copies. The only way to stop this would be for browsers to disable screenshots from within the website, but then you can just use your favorite screenshot utility to capture the image outside of the browser.
My favorite is PicPick (https://picpick.app/en/). I paid $30 years ago because I needed something for work and have received free updates since. It's a great little utility. Screenshots don't care about NFTs and the hashes wouldn't be the same either. Take that NFTs.
Buuut it doesn't matter how many times you save a picture of an nft or screen shot it, you can't use it in game without the associated token.
So nfts in gaming make substantially more sense when you consider enforcing limited items.
There wasn't a way, outside of modding, to use images or assets in a game before NFTs. If a game can be modded then it can be used in a game regardless of whether there is an NFT tied to it. Lots of restricted works are used in private mods. The only issue here would be distributing that mod on public platform, like Nexus, that cares about such things. At that point, it isn't the NFT restricting the use, it's copyright. There is nothing about NFTs that stop the original artist from licensing that asset for use elsewhere. Unless it's explicitly written into the contract itself rights holders still have the power to use or license their assets how they want.
Nanfoodle said "right click" save and then laserIT implied the site would charge a nickel to do so. I'm sure they were joking around, but this topic has come up before during NFT sales. NFT of some image or video media file was sold and within minutes it was also available to download and view without the NFT. That's because displaying an image of the NFT for sale on the site allowed people to grab the image or graphic.
That's not correct.
You can mod whatever you want in wherever you want, but the specific items in a modded game aren't the specific items in a real game.
For example if I own, lets say Batman as an NFT in DCUO and my ownership means that I am one of the 500 people that owns batman and can play as him.
Well sure you can create an emulated game, create a fake batman, and let a zillion people play as him. In that case copyrights would be involved to shut down the emulated game, but in absolutely zero circumstances would the "stolen" NFT be available within the actual game.
Not in a mod. Not in an unofficial update. That's like saying "Well I can just use whatever items in whatever game at any time". It doesn't really work that way.
Just about every blockchain game requires a network, to be online, and items would need to be authenticated on-chain. There's no way to steal a virtual item by saving or creating a copy and somehow make it usable within a blockchain game.
So you may be correct in terms of NFT art, but not NFT gaming assets. NFT art has no real inherent purpose, but if you look at gaming NFT objectively, even if you don't like it, they still have a purpose, and that's why it "works".
What if my mod alters the components, moving a pixel or two or maybe even many but not so much to distort the collection beyond recognition?
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
Simply put… NO.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In the future a nickel or a quarter might be being deducted from your bank account using blockchain for the honour of using that image
Except nothing about the smart contract implies that you can sell copies. The only way to stop this would be for browsers to disable screenshots from within the website, but then you can just use your favorite screenshot utility to capture the image outside of the browser.
My favorite is PicPick (https://picpick.app/en/). I paid $30 years ago because I needed something for work and have received free updates since. It's a great little utility. Screenshots don't care about NFTs and the hashes wouldn't be the same either. Take that NFTs.
Buuut it doesn't matter how many times you save a picture of an nft or screen shot it, you can't use it in game without the associated token.
So nfts in gaming make substantially more sense when you consider enforcing limited items.
There wasn't a way, outside of modding, to use images or assets in a game before NFTs. If a game can be modded then it can be used in a game regardless of whether there is an NFT tied to it. Lots of restricted works are used in private mods. The only issue here would be distributing that mod on public platform, like Nexus, that cares about such things. At that point, it isn't the NFT restricting the use, it's copyright. There is nothing about NFTs that stop the original artist from licensing that asset for use elsewhere. Unless it's explicitly written into the contract itself rights holders still have the power to use or license their assets how they want.
Nanfoodle said "right click" save and then laserIT implied the site would charge a nickel to do so. I'm sure they were joking around, but this topic has come up before during NFT sales. NFT of some image or video media file was sold and within minutes it was also available to download and view without the NFT. That's because displaying an image of the NFT for sale on the site allowed people to grab the image or graphic.
That's not correct.
You can mod whatever you want in wherever you want, but the specific items in a modded game aren't the specific items in a real game.
For example if I own, lets say Batman as an NFT in DCUO and my ownership means that I am one of the 500 people that owns batman and can play as him.
Well sure you can create an emulated game, create a fake batman, and let a zillion people play as him. In that case copyrights would be involved to shut down the emulated game, but in absolutely zero circumstances would the "stolen" NFT be available within the actual game.
Not in a mod. Not in an unofficial update. That's like saying "Well I can just use whatever items in whatever game at any time". It doesn't really work that way.
Just about every blockchain game requires a network, to be online, and items would need to be authenticated on-chain. There's no way to steal a virtual item by saving or creating a copy and somehow make it usable within a blockchain game.
So you may be correct in terms of NFT art, but not NFT gaming assets. NFT art has no real inherent purpose, but if you look at gaming NFT objectively, even if you don't like it, they still have a purpose, and that's why it "works".
What if my mod alters the components, moving a pixel or two or maybe even many but not so much to distort the collection beyond recognition?
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're talking about altering an NFT and passing it off as your own work in the art world, that's not really something I would speak to or be concerned with related to gaming NFTs.
Kickaxe said: What if my mod alters the components, moving a pixel or two or maybe even many but not so much to distort the collection beyond recognition?
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're talking about altering an NFT and passing it off as your own work in the art world, that's not really something I would speak to or be concerned with related to gaming NFTs.
I'm expanding on Torval's assertion that in-game NFTs would be obtainable in-game through some form of modding. I'm talking aesthetics type uses not necessarily Slapshot's taxable Sword of Doom.
Kickaxe said: What if my mod alters the components, moving a pixel or two or maybe even many but not so much to distort the collection beyond recognition?
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're talking about altering an NFT and passing it off as your own work in the art world, that's not really something I would speak to or be concerned with related to gaming NFTs.
I'm expanding on Torval's assertion that in-game NFTs would be obtainable in-game through some form of modding. I'm talking aesthetics type uses not necessarily Slapshot's taxable Sword of Doom.
Interesting assertion, but it still wouldn't make sense. That's like saying you're going to mod a sword in guild wars 2 to be a lightsaber. Even if you could locally make that change possible it wouldn't actually change the item in the game.
Attempting to execute code into an engine wouldn't work in that instance. I don't see how any sort of modding is going to change that. If it could it would already be rampant in every online game already, and blockchain wouldn't make it easier.
I dunno, innovation in monetization has long been the leading news in gaming for over a decade now, far out stripping interesting new game play.
It's clear they've drawn the players into the web now.... more dark times ahead I fear.
How is it so hard for people to understand that the AAA megacorp old guard gaming industry had no active role in the creation of this new gaming 'genre'.... The indirect role they played was the terrible decisions they made over decades fleecing gamers + churning out mediocrity leaving a HUGE opening for people with brains/ideas/innovation to swoop in and succeed.
Apparently it's as hard as it is for you to understand the origins of F2P and microtransactions. 'AAA' publishers didn't invent it, but they did take it, twist it, and then dominate the market.
The same will happen with P2E. If somehow it doesn't, if somehow every 'AAA' P2E game is an absolute failure then your beloved indie darlings will become the new super evil mega gaming corps that you so despise.
This is all entirely about money, unthinkable amounts of it, and there are no principals or ideals that will get in the way of good old fashion greed. It doesn't matter who is behind it all.
Look at how taking the suits out of MMORPG development and putting crowd funding in has cleaned up the industry.
No more of those money concerns
Games for Gamers
And just so you can game and game and game. Don't miss out on our shiny new P2E
I dunno, innovation in monetization has long been the leading news in gaming for over a decade now, far out stripping interesting new game play.
It's clear they've drawn the players into the web now.... more dark times ahead I fear.
How is it so hard for people to understand that the AAA megacorp old guard gaming industry had no active role in the creation of this new gaming 'genre'.... The indirect role they played was the terrible decisions they made over decades fleecing gamers + churning out mediocrity leaving a HUGE opening for people with brains/ideas/innovation to swoop in and succeed.
Apparently it's as hard as it is for you to understand the origins of F2P and microtransactions. 'AAA' publishers didn't invent it, but they did take it, twist it, and then dominate the market.
The same will happen with P2E. If somehow it doesn't, if somehow every 'AAA' P2E game is an absolute failure then your beloved indie darlings will become the new super evil mega gaming corps that you so despise.
This is all entirely about money, unthinkable amounts of it, and there are no principals or ideals that will get in the way of good old fashion greed. It doesn't matter who is behind it all.
As a matter of fact, while freemium and microtransactions were created in Asia in the late 1990s, AAA companies are the ones who first legitimized this wankery in the west. First Sony with Station Exchange servers in EQ2. Then Bethesda took Microsucks advice and sold their pathetic horse armor DLC, to the loud disgust of much of their player base. And then LOTRO imploded and switched to their excremental FTP, gaming as a job model. Its been all down hill from there. And now with the crypto kings stepping in and trying to make gamers their Faginesque little artful dodgers, I predict it is going to become much much worse.
Apparently it's as hard as it is for you to understand the origins of F2P and microtransactions. 'AAA' publishers didn't invent it, but they did take it, twist it, and then dominate the market.
The same will happen with P2E. If somehow it doesn't, if somehow every 'AAA' P2E game is an absolute failure then your beloved indie darlings will become the new super evil mega gaming corps that you so despise.
This is all entirely about money, unthinkable amounts of it, and there are no principals or ideals that will get in the way of good old fashion greed. It doesn't matter who is behind it all.
Once again you're trying to be tricky selectively picking 1/6 of the things I mentioned then claiming I wrote something I didn't write... had to look twice to see that I wasn't responding to @Torval ...
What I wrote >>> cash shops
What you wrote >>> microtransactions
If that isn't an obvious example of bait I don't know what is...
You did this just the other day in the other thread just like @Torval ...are you sure you're not the same person? Trying to trick someone into arguing something they never said by changing their words isn't something in the 14+ years I've been here I've seen people do... Both of you claimed I wrote things I didn't write just a few days apart then go silent when called out on it... strange... Quite the rare character similarities both arguing against the same topic... both pro New World both pro ESO... hrmm...
"Some here acting like all of this is some kind of deathblow when that deathblow has been happening at a slow pace over time by the companies that have given us the same mediocrity for decades. Don't be fooled when the day comes and the AAA old guard game industry blame nft/p2e/crypto for everything. Never forget that they were the INVENTORS/CREATORS of ftp/cash shop/sub model/loot boxes/p2w/battle passes NOT nft/crypto/p2e games..."
Literally you in this very thread. Are you claiming you didn't mean that AAA studios invented F2P? Because that is exactly what you just said. You've also made similar claims in other threads.
One of us is trying to be tricky, it certainly isn't me.
There you go AGAIN picking ONE part out of what I wrote trying to trick and BAIT...
I wrote "AAA old guard game industry" ... notice the REST of what I wrote?... NCSoft, Nexon IS "AAA old guard gaming industry" ffs... The entire fkin country of SK can probably even be categorized as it's own megacorp game industry and it's been that way for decades... People were dying of exhaustion in SK netcafe's before people in the west even knew what netcafe's were...
You also just like @Torval are completely dodging the rest of what I wrote AND not admitting that you CHANGED my words in an obvious attempt to bait...
Reading through some of you and your alter-ego's @Torval posts I'm noticing some very curious similarities in writing patterns... I can almost swap them and lose track of whose posts I'm actually reading... The same combativeness... the same faux knowledge of subjects all while attempting to earn points with the crowd... weird...
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
Simply put… NO.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
Yep. Worse is when you gain the item, and then it goes down before you sell it. If it's a powerful item, and most gamers (i.e. not professional RMTers) not knowing anything about these kinds of tax laws, they probably will just keep it. Who wants to buy Cryptos anyways? So, it's gone down, you still owe taxes on it's value when you got it, and what if you can't sell it anymore in year 2? You've got a capital loss, but I believe you can only apply that against capital gains. You owe taxes, and have no way to pay for it other than out of your pocket. And this scenario doesn't even consider if the Crypto currency crashes.
I have a feeling that this is going to get very messy.
And I agree that I want a game designed as a good game, not any of this crap. But once it's in the game, you can bet that the game design will include this crap.
One of us is trying to be tricky, it certainly isn't me.
Edit:
Oh, now I see. Your going to argue semantics over the use of microtransactions. Strange hill to die on, but I can tell you'll do it.
So, can I assume you'll just be ignoring the rest of my post? I'm interested in your thoughts on why AAA studios won't own the P2E market and how the small devs who win out won't just become the next set of greedy AAA studios.
You changed/edited what I wrote twice in this thread alone and once in the other thread in attempts to bait and trick me... Then you have the nerve to say I'm ignoring the rest of your post claiming YOU'RE the victim somehow LOL which is EXACTLY what @Torval did in the other thread... People have certain writing characteristics/patterns... you can try hiding it but eventually it comes out under the right circumstances like right now... I'm just disappointed in myself that I didn't notice it before...
"So, can I assume you'll just be ignoring the rest of my post? I'm
interested in your thoughts on why AAA studios won't own the P2E market
and how the small devs who win out won't just become the next set of
greedy AAA studios."
^ That right there is 100% @Torval. Feeling confident enough to combatively argue subjects with only 50% knowledge while refusing to learn the remaining 50%. I'm not responding to your edited post because I've already covered those topics in other threads that you were a part of just a couple days ago AND cause most of what you want my "thoughts" on is common sense stuff that a person like you who claims to know so much would know.
So Nexon which was founded somewhere around '94 and releasing F2P games in '96 was already a AAA studio? Are you seeing what I'm getting at? Every company starts somewhere. For all we know the Vietnamese studio you're gushing over could could be the next Nexon.
I haven't changed any of your words, I used one extra word (that is synonymous with F2P, Cash Shops, Loot Boxes and P2W) that you didn't and you are having a fit about. I admit that, sure. Take that word out of my first post, care to comment on any of it?
I don't even know what to think about your big conspiracy. Get a grip and stop deflecting.
How many times in one thread can you alter/change what I write?
I wrote AAA old guard gaming industry. When you're the first game companies to provide gaming entertainment to the majority of your population in the early days then you are part of the AAA old guard game industry... Just like EA in the USA, Konami/Capcom/SE in Japan... how hard is it to understand?
I'm no longer responding to you because you obviously don't know anything and just want to bait & argue until the stuff you throw out ends up sticking somehow...
"I don't even know what to think about your big conspiracy. Get a grip and stop deflecting." Really? @TorvalThe internet tough guy? I have so many @Torval posts in threads I saved that look exactly like what you just wrote word for word... kinda gave it away with that last part...
Yeah he did the same sillyness with me in the past, accusing me of being an alt account of Slapshot, though in my case he did not spam ping thankfully. Pinging is annoying. I make sure to use it only if I think what I say might be useful info for the pingee. Using it to harass really shows you somehow got rent-free space in his brain.
A poster who is purple could be an alt account? That would take more dedication than I could muster.
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
Simply put… NO.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
Yep. Worse is when you gain the item, and then it goes down before you sell it. If it's a powerful item, and most gamers (i.e. not professional RMTers) not knowing anything about these kinds of tax laws, they probably will just keep it. Who wants to buy Cryptos anyways? So, it's gone down, you still owe taxes on it's value when you got it, and what if you can't sell it anymore in year 2? You've got a capital loss, but I believe you can only apply that against capital gains. You owe taxes, and have no way to pay for it other than out of your pocket. And this scenario doesn't even consider if the Crypto currency crashes.
I have a feeling that this is going to get very messy.
And I agree that I want a game designed as a good game, not any of this crap. But once it's in the game, you can bet that the game design will include this crap.
No thanks.
Usually you don’t have to pay any capital gains until you cash out.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
Simply put… NO.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
Yep. Worse is when you gain the item, and then it goes down before you sell it. If it's a powerful item, and most gamers (i.e. not professional RMTers) not knowing anything about these kinds of tax laws, they probably will just keep it. Who wants to buy Cryptos anyways? So, it's gone down, you still owe taxes on it's value when you got it, and what if you can't sell it anymore in year 2? You've got a capital loss, but I believe you can only apply that against capital gains. You owe taxes, and have no way to pay for it other than out of your pocket. And this scenario doesn't even consider if the Crypto currency crashes.
I have a feeling that this is going to get very messy.
And I agree that I want a game designed as a good game, not any of this crap. But once it's in the game, you can bet that the game design will include this crap.
No thanks.
Usually you don’t have to pay any capital gains until you cash out.
Things can start getting really complicated
But you DO have to pay taxes when you acquire wealth through working, gambling, prize winning, etc...
I agree that if you BUY an NFT Sword of Doom, your only tax due is on the appreciation of the virtual currency you used to buy it (If the currency was worth $100 when you bought it, but you just spent that for a $1000 Sword of Doom, you owe taxes on the 900. You do not owe taxes on the Sword of Doom itself until you sell it. But that is different from getting the Sword of Doom via a drop, or some other in game mechanism. That would trigger a tax on the acquired value and that is the part that utterly and irrevocably destroys the game for ALL. Not just those who want to Play to Earn, but for those that just want to PLAY.
here is an explanation regarding game show prizes below. To date that has never applied to MMORPGs because the virtual items were valueless. You explicitly did not own them and that was made clear by gaming companies. Now however, you will own these items AND they will have a value.
As you say... Things can start getting really complicated! Which is something these people who want to turn games into money making machines just do not understand. The second this happens a game is not a game but has real world financial implications. They may love that, but I think it sucks.
Federal Taxes – Game Show Prizes
When you win a game show prize, the IRS as well as certain states will view and impose taxes on game show winnings as ordinary income. Even though you won the prize from participating in a game show, and did not have to necessarily work for or earn it, for tax purposes your prize is considered income. And, as a result, you may be expected to pay state and federal income taxes on it depending on your prize’s value, manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) or fair market value. Prize winners are taxed according to their individual standard income tax rate or bracket.
If the prize is more than $600, the game show is supposed to report your prize winnings to the IRS and issue you an IRS Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income. But, if for some reason you do not receive this form from the game show, you are still responsible for reporting your winnings when you go to file your federal tax return. However, if the prize has a value of more than $5,000, then you will face automatic federal taxes withheld to the tune of 24 percent – regardless of whether it is a cash prize or merchandise.
State Taxes – Game Show Prizes
Depending on your state, you may also have to contend with state income taxes on your game show prize as well. As of publication, seven states do not levy state income tax, so you won’t have to pay taxes on your prize winnings in that state if you win or live there. But, this does not mean you won't have to pay taxes in your home state if it does tax your winnings, yet the state in which you won does not.
The states without income tax include Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Although, if you are a resident of Tennessee or New Hampshire, then you are also spared state taxes, as these two states only tax income from dividends and investments.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
Simply put… NO.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
Yep. Worse is when you gain the item, and then it goes down before you sell it. If it's a powerful item, and most gamers (i.e. not professional RMTers) not knowing anything about these kinds of tax laws, they probably will just keep it. Who wants to buy Cryptos anyways? So, it's gone down, you still owe taxes on it's value when you got it, and what if you can't sell it anymore in year 2? You've got a capital loss, but I believe you can only apply that against capital gains. You owe taxes, and have no way to pay for it other than out of your pocket. And this scenario doesn't even consider if the Crypto currency crashes.
I have a feeling that this is going to get very messy.
And I agree that I want a game designed as a good game, not any of this crap. But once it's in the game, you can bet that the game design will include this crap.
No thanks.
Usually you don’t have to pay any capital gains until you cash out.
Things can start getting really complicated
But you DO have to pay taxes when you acquire wealth through working, gambling, prize winning, etc...
I agree that if you BUY an NFT Sword of Doom, your only tax due is on the appreciation of the virtual currency you used to buy it (If the currency was worth $100 when you bought it, but you just spent that for a $1000 Sword of Doom, you owe taxes on the 900. You do not owe taxes on the Sword of Doom itself until you sell it. But that is different from getting the Sword of Doom via a drop, or some other in game mechanism. That would trigger a tax on the acquired value and that is the part that utterly and irrevocably destroys the game for ALL. Not just those who want to Play to Earn, but for those that just want to PLAY.
here is an explanation regarding game show prizes below. To date that has never applied to MMORPGs because the virtual items were valueless. You explicitly did not own them and that was made clear by gaming companies. Now however, you will own these items AND they will have a value.
As you say... Things can start getting really complicated! Which is something these people who want to turn games into money making machines just do not understand. The second this happens a game is not a game but has real world financial implications. They may love that, but I think it sucks.
Federal Taxes – Game Show Prizes
When you win a game show prize, the IRS as well as certain states will view and impose taxes on game show winnings as ordinary income. Even though you won the prize from participating in a game show, and did not have to necessarily work for or earn it, for tax purposes your prize is considered income. And, as a result, you may be expected to pay state and federal income taxes on it depending on your prize’s value, manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) or fair market value. Prize winners are taxed according to their individual standard income tax rate or bracket.
If the prize is more than $600, the game show is supposed to report your prize winnings to the IRS and issue you an IRS Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income. But, if for some reason you do not receive this form from the game show, you are still responsible for reporting your winnings when you go to file your federal tax return. However, if the prize has a value of more than $5,000, then you will face automatic federal taxes withheld to the tune of 24 percent – regardless of whether it is a cash prize or merchandise.
State Taxes – Game Show Prizes
Depending on your state, you may also have to contend with state income taxes on your game show prize as well. As of publication, seven states do not levy state income tax, so you won’t have to pay taxes on your prize winnings in that state if you win or live there. But, this does not mean you won't have to pay taxes in your home state if it does tax your winnings, yet the state in which you won does not.
The states without income tax include Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Although, if you are a resident of Tennessee or New Hampshire, then you are also spared state taxes, as these two states only tax income from dividends and investments.
Like I said it gets real complicated. I spend over 60k a year on an accountant. Last year I payed a tax lawyer 37k to save me 160k five years down the road. It took almost a year for all the paperwork to complete.
I’m not a big complicated corporation. If people try to hide income from the government, that’s called tax evasion.
At this point, I'm going to consider any game that has NFT's, or claims it can make you money, as a big negative.
After watching the monetization of previous games, and how in-game currencies have multiplied, I expect NFT's to go in all kinds of weird directions. Anything to make more money off the customers.
I already have a good job, stocks, investments. CPA's do my taxes.
I play games to get away from all that, to have fun. So I will avoid any game that has NFT's or claims you can make money by playing.
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
Simply put… NO.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
Yep. Worse is when you gain the item, and then it goes down before you sell it. If it's a powerful item, and most gamers (i.e. not professional RMTers) not knowing anything about these kinds of tax laws, they probably will just keep it. Who wants to buy Cryptos anyways? So, it's gone down, you still owe taxes on it's value when you got it, and what if you can't sell it anymore in year 2? You've got a capital loss, but I believe you can only apply that against capital gains. You owe taxes, and have no way to pay for it other than out of your pocket. And this scenario doesn't even consider if the Crypto currency crashes.
I have a feeling that this is going to get very messy.
And I agree that I want a game designed as a good game, not any of this crap. But once it's in the game, you can bet that the game design will include this crap.
No thanks.
Usually you don’t have to pay any capital gains until you cash out.
Things can start getting really complicated
But you DO have to pay taxes when you acquire wealth through working, gambling, prize winning, etc...
I agree that if you BUY an NFT Sword of Doom, your only tax due is on the appreciation of the virtual currency you used to buy it (If the currency was worth $100 when you bought it, but you just spent that for a $1000 Sword of Doom, you owe taxes on the 900. You do not owe taxes on the Sword of Doom itself until you sell it. But that is different from getting the Sword of Doom via a drop, or some other in game mechanism. That would trigger a tax on the acquired value and that is the part that utterly and irrevocably destroys the game for ALL. Not just those who want to Play to Earn, but for those that just want to PLAY.
here is an explanation regarding game show prizes below. To date that has never applied to MMORPGs because the virtual items were valueless. You explicitly did not own them and that was made clear by gaming companies. Now however, you will own these items AND they will have a value.
As you say... Things can start getting really complicated! Which is something these people who want to turn games into money making machines just do not understand. The second this happens a game is not a game but has real world financial implications. They may love that, but I think it sucks.
Federal Taxes – Game Show Prizes
When you win a game show prize, the IRS as well as certain states will view and impose taxes on game show winnings as ordinary income. Even though you won the prize from participating in a game show, and did not have to necessarily work for or earn it, for tax purposes your prize is considered income. And, as a result, you may be expected to pay state and federal income taxes on it depending on your prize’s value, manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) or fair market value. Prize winners are taxed according to their individual standard income tax rate or bracket.
If the prize is more than $600, the game show is supposed to report your prize winnings to the IRS and issue you an IRS Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income. But, if for some reason you do not receive this form from the game show, you are still responsible for reporting your winnings when you go to file your federal tax return. However, if the prize has a value of more than $5,000, then you will face automatic federal taxes withheld to the tune of 24 percent – regardless of whether it is a cash prize or merchandise.
State Taxes – Game Show Prizes
Depending on your state, you may also have to contend with state income taxes on your game show prize as well. As of publication, seven states do not levy state income tax, so you won’t have to pay taxes on your prize winnings in that state if you win or live there. But, this does not mean you won't have to pay taxes in your home state if it does tax your winnings, yet the state in which you won does not.
The states without income tax include Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Although, if you are a resident of Tennessee or New Hampshire, then you are also spared state taxes, as these two states only tax income from dividends and investments.
Like I said it gets real complicated. I spend over 60k a year on an accountant. Last year I payed a tax lawyer 37k to save me 160k five years down the road. It took almost a year for all the paperwork to complete.
I’m not a big complicated corporation. If people try to hide income from the government, that’s called tax evasion.
Not complicated at all. You still only pay taxes when you cash out any crypto asset no matter how you obtain it.
There is no value to anything you earn until it's sold. There would be no way for them to tax you otherwise.
You guys are overthinking .... and not realistically.
Comments
Your competing with others but you get special rules.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Its trying to put a tangible value on in game virtual items. As soon as that happens, the IRS will want it taxed. Now, some folks have said things along the lines of “If you have to pay a 20% tax on a gain in an NFT then you still made 80%”.
If you are an investor buying and selling then sure you do not care. I just want to play a damn game. Now That Sword of Doom is crafted, or dropped or found or anything else in the GAME I am playing, and it has VALUE, then I have to eventually pay for that. I do not want to pay $200 tax on my Sword of Doom that dropped from the boss simply because some dumbasses decided that THESE pixels were worth $1000. I do not want to sell the sword to make "money". I do not want to pay taxes to keep my Sword. I just want my damn Sword and to play a game with it.
This is EXACTLY like getting something from a game show " You win a new car!!!" Great, but I have to pay taxes on that car now. Of course.. its a car so I'm happy to pay it. That car has real value to me. But the Sword of Doom's value was supposed to be letting me use it in game. Now I cant without playing the tax man....
YAY.. what progress...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Attempting to execute code into an engine wouldn't work in that instance. I don't see how any sort of modding is going to change that. If it could it would already be rampant in every online game already, and blockchain wouldn't make it easier.
No more of those money concerns
Games for Gamers
And just so you can game and game and game. Don't miss out on our shiny new P2E
I bet you've never had so much fun
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
As a matter of fact, while freemium and microtransactions were created in Asia in the late 1990s, AAA companies are the ones who first legitimized this wankery in the west. First Sony with Station Exchange servers in EQ2. Then Bethesda took Microsucks advice and sold their pathetic horse armor DLC, to the loud disgust of much of their player base. And then LOTRO imploded and switched to their excremental FTP, gaming as a job model. Its been all down hill from there. And now with the crypto kings stepping in and trying to make gamers their Faginesque little artful dodgers, I predict it is going to become much much worse.
If it's a powerful item, and most gamers (i.e. not professional RMTers) not knowing anything about these kinds of tax laws, they probably will just keep it. Who wants to buy Cryptos anyways?
So, it's gone down, you still owe taxes on it's value when you got it, and what if you can't sell it anymore in year 2?
You've got a capital loss, but I believe you can only apply that against capital gains.
You owe taxes, and have no way to pay for it other than out of your pocket.
And this scenario doesn't even consider if the Crypto currency crashes.
I have a feeling that this is going to get very messy.
And I agree that I want a game designed as a good game, not any of this crap. But once it's in the game, you can bet that the game design will include this crap.
No thanks.
Once upon a time....
^ That right there is 100% @Torval. Feeling confident enough to combatively argue subjects with only 50% knowledge while refusing to learn the remaining 50%. I'm not responding to your edited post because I've already covered those topics in other threads that you were a part of just a couple days ago AND cause most of what you want my "thoughts" on is common sense stuff that a person like you who claims to know so much would know.
/sigh
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Things can start getting really complicated
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I agree that if you BUY an NFT Sword of Doom, your only tax due is on the appreciation of the virtual currency you used to buy it (If the currency was worth $100 when you bought it, but you just spent that for a $1000 Sword of Doom, you owe taxes on the 900. You do not owe taxes on the Sword of Doom itself until you sell it. But that is different from getting the Sword of Doom via a drop, or some other in game mechanism. That would trigger a tax on the acquired value and that is the part that utterly and irrevocably destroys the game for ALL. Not just those who want to Play to Earn, but for those that just want to PLAY.
here is an explanation regarding game show prizes below. To date that has never applied to MMORPGs because the virtual items were valueless. You explicitly did not own them and that was made clear by gaming companies. Now however, you will own these items AND they will have a value.
As you say... Things can start getting really complicated! Which is something these people who want to turn games into money making machines just do not understand. The second this happens a game is not a game but has real world financial implications. They may love that, but I think it sucks.
Federal Taxes – Game Show Prizes
When you win a game show prize, the IRS as well as certain states will view and impose taxes on game show winnings as ordinary income. Even though you won the prize from participating in a game show, and did not have to necessarily work for or earn it, for tax purposes your prize is considered income. And, as a result, you may be expected to pay state and federal income taxes on it depending on your prize’s value, manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) or fair market value. Prize winners are taxed according to their individual standard income tax rate or bracket.
If the prize is more than $600, the game show is supposed to report your prize winnings to the IRS and issue you an IRS Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income. But, if for some reason you do not receive this form from the game show, you are still responsible for reporting your winnings when you go to file your federal tax return. However, if the prize has a value of more than $5,000, then you will face automatic federal taxes withheld to the tune of 24 percent – regardless of whether it is a cash prize or merchandise.
State Taxes – Game Show Prizes
Depending on your state, you may also have to contend with state income taxes on your game show prize as well. As of publication, seven states do not levy state income tax, so you won’t have to pay taxes on your prize winnings in that state if you win or live there. But, this does not mean you won't have to pay taxes in your home state if it does tax your winnings, yet the state in which you won does not.
The states without income tax include Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Although, if you are a resident of Tennessee or New Hampshire, then you are also spared state taxes, as these two states only tax income from dividends and investments.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I’m not a big complicated corporation. If people try to hide income from the government, that’s called tax evasion.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Mark twain knew how to bring people down to his level for sure.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
There is no value to anything you earn until it's sold. There would be no way for them to tax you otherwise.
You guys are overthinking .... and not realistically.