my ideal item system

Rungar

My ideal item system

This system takes inspiration from eso which I consider the best system around.

Items come in three types:

Crafted which feature the highest durability, cheapest repairs, Low magic toxicity and lowest power.

Found Magic items which feature medium durability, medium repairs, medium toxicity and medium power

Cursed magic items feature the lowest durability, highest repair cost, highest magic toxicity, highest power, but also come with significant downsides.

Items also come in specific sets and have bonuses for equipping the whole set and these sets contain 1-4 pieces. You can equip 12 pieces total in whatever combinations you like though sets usually come in certain configurations such as weapon sets (2 pieces), armor sets (3 or 4 pieces) helm and shoulder sets (2peices). Only cursed items come in 1 piece sets and are their own sets. There are no sub bonuses in the sets. You need the full set to get the set bonus however each piece can be enchanted and larger pieces can have 2 enchantments. Not all sets will have a full complement of items. Most will be partial and may be missing certain pieces depending on the set. For instance a certain armor set might not have rings associated with the set, while another set might only have rings etc. Only with crafted armor can you generally make the entire set.

Magic toxicity

In addition to building and combining your sets you also have to take into account magic toxicity. This is like a little meter where if you have too much magic equipped you suffer magic sickness. So this means you have to balance the three kinds of items available to squeeze out the most power from your character and dealing with the downsides should you choose to have any.  

This also lets you play different ways such as conservative, balanced and reckless with pros and cons for each strategy. For instance if you were all crafted that would be considered conservative. It’s less powerful overall but there are benefits for doing so. Most people would be balanced with a mix of crafted, magic and maybe one or two cursed items. You could also play reckless overloading yourself with magic where you have a lot of power but also the dire consequences of that choice.

Thematic Set/Enchantment Bonuses

Bonuses to certain pieces are very specific to the item type. Armor has defensive related bonuses only and weapons have offensive related bonuses only. Rings, necklaces and earing’s have some of both types available and are more flexible.

Distribution

Like eso each zone, dungeon, arenas and warfronts (my combined pvp/raids) would have their own sets and each one would have a specific set for each archetype (mage, rogue, and fighter). Depending on the area it may or may not have crafted available. There are also additional sets available through npc guilds that are a little more focused though not all npc guilds have armor sets and different guilds have also have different kinds of sets.  

Archetype & Core Armor

 In my model armor is specific to archetype thus mages generally wear clothes (various fabrics like silks), rogues wear animals (leathers, hides, scales) and fighters wear metal (Chain, Banded, Plate). Each of the subtypes has pros and cons. Some sets are available in specific subtypes and others come in multiple types, some in mixed subtypes.  

For example fighter’s chain provides the most mobility and plate the most protection. These can be mixed and matched though. Some sets are not core and have no classification at all such as weapon sets and ring sets and thus can be freely use by anyone without a downside. Some sets are also not core armor but come in specific formats such as helm and shoulders.  

So each archetype has core armor pieces and this includes chest, legs, boots and gauntlets. Equipping appropriate armor in these slots for your archetype gives you a specific defensive archetype bonus. For instance when a mage equips all archetype core armor they get a hefty bonus to defense against magic and elements above and beyond what the set offers. The fighter bonus is physical defense and the rogue’s bonus is evasion.  

My model uses a situational mitigation system where your archetype is defined by defense (i.e. mages defend best vs mages, fighters defend best vs fighters) so you get defensive bonuses for wearing your core archetype armor but you can forgo the bonuses and wear any armor you choose if you wish.

More on Cursed items and Magic Toxicity

While the most powerful cursed items are the hardest to play with. They also don’t play well together so wearing two cursed items will often synergize the negative effects! The negative effects can also be very nasty and is the trade-off for extra power. You can equip as many as you can tolerate though keeping in mind these items are also the most toxic so the penalties will add up very quickly.  

The toxicity system promotes the mixing and matching of different kinds of sets like crafted, found and cursed, ensuring each form has its place in the game.  Each equipped piece adds to this value and there are certain benefits to staying well below the threshold and incremental penalties for going over it. As noted before it’s up to the player to manage this depending on how they want to play.

 

The overall idea here is to provide a horizontal system that has, synergy effects and integrated mini games to promote theory-crafting of combined sets while keeping different kinds of items relevant and interesting.  I also wanted to have it a little more rough and rugged where you cant always get every possible piece for every set (unlike eso) and need to work with what's available. The end result being a deep horizontal system that's easy to get in to ( just equip your archetype core armor type) but difficult to master.     

Vrika

Too complex. The main point of getting new items is that it's fun. If you ask people to re-balance their whole equipment when they get a new item you'll turn it into too much of a chore.

Rungar

well it is a horizontal system. It has to be more complex than a typical vertical system. Otherwise it wont work. 

laserit

Commercial Viability.

A game can have the best progression systems ever designed. If the content sucks and/or your combat sucks

A game is going to fail miserably.

We get bored when we run out of things to do. Progression is just another thing to do. When it comes to entertainment, it's the cheap way out.

Imho

I'm not criticizing your mechanics btw  

Rungar

laserit said:

Commercial Viability.

A game can have the best progression systems ever designed. If the content sucks and/or your combat sucks

A game is going to fail miserably.

We get bored when we run out of things to do. Progression is just another thing to do. When it comes to entertainment, it's the cheap way out.

Imho

I'm not criticizing your mechanics btw  

yea and sometimes the games with the best systems fail while the shitty systems prosper. 

I sometimes think people, in general, are too lazy for better games. 

laserit

Rungar said:

laserit said:

Commercial Viability.

A game can have the best progression systems ever designed. If the content sucks and/or your combat sucks

A game is going to fail miserably.

We get bored when we run out of things to do. Progression is just another thing to do. When it comes to entertainment, it's the cheap way out.

Imho

I'm not criticizing your mechanics btw  

yea and sometimes the games with the best systems fail while the shitty systems prosper. 

I sometimes think people, in general, are too lazy for better games. 

There is no right or wrong way. You just need to find a way that clicks (like lego)

Keep working on it

Rungar

oh i have no expectations. i just post these things for fun. You really cant appeal to everyone because people play games for different reasons. 

i'm one of those figure it out type of guys so the things  I like all have that quality to them. 

i lose interest in the vertical systems very quickly. Theres nothing to figure out. 

laserit

Rungar said:

oh i have no expectations. i just post these things for fun. You really cant appeal to everyone because people play games for different reasons. 

i'm one of those figure it out type of guys so the things  I like all have that quality to them. 

i lose interest in the vertical systems very quickly. Theres nothing to figure out. 

Me too

But some of the games that include systems like that are fun to play for a couple of months.

Vrika

Rungar said:

well it is a horizontal system. It has to be more complex than a typical vertical system. Otherwise it wont work. 

It does not need to have system where switching a single piece of equipment can mess up your toxicity, armor set bonuses and armor type bonuses on top of the usual messing up stat balance.

You're treating those equipment pieces too much like a puzzle that player has to solve to make a desired change to what his equipment's total effects are.

laserit

We need progression in our games, gear and talent points are only two ways of accomplishing progression.

Rungar

Vrika said:

Rungar said:

well it is a horizontal system. It has to be more complex than a typical vertical system. Otherwise it wont work. 

It does not need to have system where switching a single piece of equipment can mess up your toxicity, armor set bonuses and armor type bonuses on top of the usual messing up stat balance.

You're treating those equipment pieces too much like a puzzle that player has to solve to make a desired change to what his equipment's total effects are.

its a small price to pay to keep crafting relevant imo. Its not like you go off the cliff when you hit the limit. Its an incremental penalty. Additionally the sets come in various types so one piece, unless it's a cursed item isn't going to change anything. If it is a cursed item you have to figure out if its worth it. Replacing a magic item ( if it was a magic item) with another wont change anything and replacing it with a crafted item will improve it. 

people love to overclock their computers and micromanage their characters. With this system they can overclock their armor as well. Of course if you go to far you have to pay the price. A little display to show you the green, yellow and red areas so there would be some fudge room.  

keep in mind that there is a simple side to it as well. Should you wear your archetype core armor ( the four core pieces) your going to get a bonus equal to the rest of the armor itself. In that system that's partially how a mage tanks other mages, fighters tank other fighters. Of course its only good for a specific use but its easy to figure out that part for sure. 


Rungar's axe of endless execution is not for the faint of heart. It wont just fuck up the battlefield, but will fuck you up as well. 

Mendel

Wh

Rungar said:

Vrika said:

Rungar said:

well it is a horizontal system. It has to be more complex than a typical vertical system. Otherwise it wont work. 

It does not need to have system where switching a single piece of equipment can mess up your toxicity, armor set bonuses and armor type bonuses on top of the usual messing up stat balance.

You're treating those equipment pieces too much like a puzzle that player has to solve to make a desired change to what his equipment's total effects are.

its a small price to pay to keep crafting relevant imo. Its not like you go off the cliff when you hit the limit. Its an incremental penalty. Additionally the sets come in various types so one piece, unless it's a cursed item isn't going to change anything. If it is a cursed item you have to figure out if its worth it. Replacing a magic item ( if it was a magic item) with another wont change anything and replacing it with a crafted item will improve it. 

people love to overclock their computers and micromanage their characters. With this system they can overclock their armor as well. Of course if you go to far you have to pay the price. A little display to show you the green, yellow and red areas so there would be some fudge room.  

keep in mind that there is a simple side to it as well. Should you wear your archetype core armor ( the four core pieces) your going to get a bonus equal to the rest of the armor itself. In that system that's partially how a mage tanks other mages, fighters tank other fighters. Of course its only good for a specific use but its easy to figure out that part for sure. 


Rungar's axe of endless execution is not for the faint of heart. It wont just fuck up the battlefield, but will fuck you up as well. 

Why, precisely, is it important to keep crafting relevant?  If everyone is already crafting the exact same items using the exact same methods and materials, what makes that process vital to the game?  That UberSword_043 might as well be a commodity stamped out by a nameless, industrial machine somewhere, not an actual crafted item.

laserit

Mendel said:

Wh

Rungar said:

Vrika said:

Rungar said:

well it is a horizontal system. It has to be more complex than a typical vertical system. Otherwise it wont work. 

It does not need to have system where switching a single piece of equipment can mess up your toxicity, armor set bonuses and armor type bonuses on top of the usual messing up stat balance.

You're treating those equipment pieces too much like a puzzle that player has to solve to make a desired change to what his equipment's total effects are.

its a small price to pay to keep crafting relevant imo. Its not like you go off the cliff when you hit the limit. Its an incremental penalty. Additionally the sets come in various types so one piece, unless it's a cursed item isn't going to change anything. If it is a cursed item you have to figure out if its worth it. Replacing a magic item ( if it was a magic item) with another wont change anything and replacing it with a crafted item will improve it. 

people love to overclock their computers and micromanage their characters. With this system they can overclock their armor as well. Of course if you go to far you have to pay the price. A little display to show you the green, yellow and red areas so there would be some fudge room.  

keep in mind that there is a simple side to it as well. Should you wear your archetype core armor ( the four core pieces) your going to get a bonus equal to the rest of the armor itself. In that system that's partially how a mage tanks other mages, fighters tank other fighters. Of course its only good for a specific use but its easy to figure out that part for sure. 


Rungar's axe of endless execution is not for the faint of heart. It wont just fuck up the battlefield, but will fuck you up as well. 

Why, precisely, is it important to keep crafting relevant?  If everyone is already crafting the exact same items using the exact same methods and materials, what makes that process vital to the game?  That UberSword_043 might as well be a commodity stamped out by a nameless, industrial machine somewhere, not an actual crafted item.

I agree, but if crafting a sword was one of a thousand other things to do, it just might take care of itself.

imho

Rungar

well I think crafting is a core part of pve games. I think it should useful and relevant to creating a good build. Not all crafted is created equally. Some things might be easy to craft and others not so much, still others you might have to go use the enemies forge in the heart of darkness. As in eso each set would have a unique function so this would be no different its just some unique functions would be crafted and others wouldn't be.  

I think theres value there and it adds some depth over and above just collecting stuff. Who knows, there might be an enemy out there that can take advantage of all your magic and use it against you. I would also have enemies that have attacks that do durability damage to your equipment so it would be strategic that way as well. 

in eso some of the characters use crafted sets. They have their uses.  In a horizontal system they are strategic, not inferior. 

 

Dattelis

Aren't we being a bit binary with terms of success and failure? Each game designed doesn't have to have everything for everyone to be 'deemed' a success. It just has to have well enough systems for whatever audience they are trying to target. One major flaw I see in many mmorpgs is that they try to placate to everyone in some way instead of just going fully into one or two things. As consumers, I think we should advocate for more diversity even if its not something we would personally enjoy.

bcbully

Vrika said:

Too complex. The main point of getting new items is that it's fun. If you ask people to re-balance their whole equipment when they get a new item you'll turn it into too much of a chore.

I like stats inside my stats. PLEASE give me a reason to re-balance my build.

That's what kept me in ESO for so long. I could build anything.

Rungar

Well firstly i'm a customer, not a consumer

mmos trying to do everything is part of the problem because they bite off more than they can chew and all system suffer as a result. 

i like games like eso and dont like games like wow so for me its pretty reasonable to see crafting an a core part of the game. 

others might want only crafted which I feel is gone too far or only raid gear is useful which i also feel has gone to far. 

i prefer a nice mix of equipment and its up to me to figure out how to get the most out of it. Not some dumbed down gear score number. 

i want to be able to push the limits of the system and for that to be fun there has a downside to it. 

laserit

Rungar said:

well I think crafting is a core part of pve games. I think it should useful and relevant to creating a good build. Not all crafted is created equally. Some things might be easy to craft and others not so much, still others you might have to go use the enemies forge in the heart of darkness. As in eso each set would have a unique function so this would be no different its just some unique functions would be crafted and others wouldn't be.  

I think theres value there and it adds some depth over and above just collecting stuff. Who knows, there might be an enemy out there that can take advantage of all your magic and use it against you. I would also have enemies that have attacks that do durability damage to your equipment so it would be strategic that way as well. 

in eso some of the characters use crafted sets. They have their uses.  In a horizontal system they are strategic, not inferior. 

 

In MMORPG's we seem to simulate master craftmanship by repetition and grind rather than skill.

Rungar

bcbully said:

Vrika said:

Too complex. The main point of getting new items is that it's fun. If you ask people to re-balance their whole equipment when they get a new item you'll turn it into too much of a chore.

I like stats inside my stats. PLEASE give me a reason to re-balance my build.

That's what kept me in ESO for so long. I could build anything.

same deal. So many things to collect and try out...so little time..lol.