I think that is an imperfect analogy. Listening to music is fairly passive, so QoL improvements are not very important or potent. They also don't share the same nature as QoL improvements in something like a video game.
QoL is more noticeable in the more active activity.
I'm a musician, it's not passive at all. And composer to be specific.
An I'm not talking about quality of life improvements I'm talking about the "old style" of games. Quite frankly I don't really care about quality of life improvements if I can still play the game and enjoy it.
So to your post, I'm fine with 30 year old game play. I still play "30 year old games and think they are great!" Well, "28ish year old games."
I was specifically replying to your comparison to listening to classical music.
You can do so on Spotify, switching back and forth between the two at will, and nothing in how you approach listening to it has to change. This is what I mean by the QoL stuff having a larger effect on experience in video games. The UI, controls, etc. can make or break a game on the individual level, where listening to different genres of music mostly doesn't even require accessing more than one application.
All that to say: there are many old school design elements that may survive and thrive if they are separated from other "old school" elements that are the product of truly outdated design or technical limitations. Far too often, no effort is made to differentiate between the two, to the disservice of the design elements that continue to have merit.
In that case I can agree. UI elements can destroy a game because the player will just be frustrated. I've never considered that quality of life but just bad UI, yet "ok" I agree.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I dont think old school games or UI are out of place in this modern gaming. For me, its what are you trying to make? Who do you want to buy your game? Does the feature you want in your game (old school UI) fit all the other design choices? I find it rare one element can wreak a well designed game. I have played many a game that I didnt think, this or that fit what the made but was happy to stick it out for the sake of "it was a good game overall".
I dont think old school games or UI are out of place in this modern gaming. For me, its what are you trying to make? Who do you want to buy your game? Does the feature you want in your game (old school UI) fit all the other design choices? I find it rare one element can wreak a well designed game. I have played many a game that I didnt think, this or that fit what the made but was happy to stick it out for the sake of "it was a good game overall".
Again, I think this is why it's necessary to clearly delineate between desirable elements and undesirable ones.
Having vague tooltips like the Souls game is a design choice reminiscent of older games, but holds value. Adventure games are at their best when players get to stumble upon a cool feature or item. On the other hand, things like one way item cycling hearken waaayyyyyy back to even the time of the PS1- I remember cycling missiles in Twisted Metal. That older design element is less enjoyable.
I don't spend too much time memorizing boss fights. No shame to use all the game gives you to muscle through it imo. The challenge isn't *the* reason I play ER, personally. It's the exploration and adventure.
I love how the world and random encounters are all challenging and require the player to pay close attention, don't get me wrong. Memorizing animations to beat one extra hard-hitting enemy in the game that I'll never see again just holds me back from exploring more of that incredible world, though.
I just read their tells, each boss has them. Some fight I learn in 20 trys and others on first go. I beat The Grafted on my first try. I find the game, really makes you watch what the mobs do and rarely is there order to them. I have even seen mini boss take cover when getting picked off with ranged. That was thrilling.
Just pushed a bit further down the story line and downed Margit in around ten attempts and Godrick took me two. Fun fights though, and now I am running around with Rogiers Rapier +8, a bit OP at this part of the game it seems. And Claws, dual wielding, those are probably OP too in more skillful hands then mine
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I just read their tells, each boss has them. Some fight I learn in 20 trys and others on first go. I beat The Grafted on my first try. I find the game, really makes you watch what the mobs do and rarely is there order to them. I have even seen mini boss take cover when getting picked off with ranged. That was thrilling.
I watch some.of the "pro" players and how they really focus on the tells and abilities. As a new player I thought I'd be able to get the swing of it...
But for me, for a long time I couldn't do it and I always wondered why I just wasn't "good enough" to fight toe to toe with the bosses. But as a spellsword in heavy armor with a shield and every weapon I could conceivably carry for every situation, I had very high weight, I didn't realize that the lower the weight the easier and faster you can roll out of the way and dodge.
In the end it didn't really matter though, there are a few bosses you really do need to dodge attacks, but my shield and just keeping my distance from the very worst attacks saved me more times than I could count.
By the second play through shield counters, poise breaks and criticals were the vast majority of my general damage. I stopped trying to dodge and embraced the shield!
I just read their tells, each boss has them. Some fight I learn in 20 trys and others on first go. I beat The Grafted on my first try. I find the game, really makes you watch what the mobs do and rarely is there order to them. I have even seen mini boss take cover when getting picked off with ranged. That was thrilling.
I watch some.of the "pro" players and how they really focus on the tells and abilities. As a new player I thought I'd be able to get the swing of it...
But for me, for a long time I couldn't do it and I always wondered why I just wasn't "good enough" to fight toe to toe with the bosses. But as a spellsword in heavy armor with a shield and every weapon I could conceivably carry for every situation, I had very high weight, I didn't realize that the lower the weight the easier and faster you can roll out of the way and dodge.
In the end it didn't really matter though, there are a few bosses you really do need to dodge attacks, but my shield and just keeping my distance from the very worst attacks saved me more times than I could count.
By the second play through shield counters, poise breaks and criticals were the vast majority of my general damage. I stopped trying to dodge and embraced the shield!
If thats your play style, I use Ash of War: Barricade Shield on my Shield. Its a 15 second buff that makes you 100% block almost anything. Go look up the boss "Night's Cavalry" You will only find him at night. I had that Ash of War in my inventory for a few days before I tried it out lol.
I just read their tells, each boss has them. Some fight I learn in 20 trys and others on first go. I beat The Grafted on my first try. I find the game, really makes you watch what the mobs do and rarely is there order to them. I have even seen mini boss take cover when getting picked off with ranged. That was thrilling.
Yeah I had more difficulties with the tree sentinel in Limgrave than Agheel which I killed on the first try (was a bit disappointed). I figured out quickly that the wings were safer to attack than the stomping feet.
I just read their tells, each boss has them. Some fight I learn in 20 trys and others on first go. I beat The Grafted on my first try. I find the game, really makes you watch what the mobs do and rarely is there order to them. I have even seen mini boss take cover when getting picked off with ranged. That was thrilling.
Yeah I had more difficulties with the tree sentinel in Limgrave than Agheel which I killed on the first try (was a bit disappointed). I figured out quickly that the wings were safer to attack than the stomping feet.
I've found the game becomes much, much easier if you have the ability to effectively attack from range.
Agheel was easy using the Demi-Human Queen's Glintstone Staff +5 and Glintstone Pebble, but I think I was a little overleveled by the time I went back and faced him. Was still a more exciting fight than Skyrim dragons imo, though.
Some of the toughest mobs, oddly enough, have simply been spear users. Their attacks all look similar at the beginning because, well... There's only so many ways to thrust a spear in one's hand. I've gotten to where I just block and counter-attack those.
Oddly enough, I've found that block counters are hit and miss in effectiveness. Block countering with the flail is useless half the time, as the swing misses human-sized enemies completely and just leaves me open to be smashed.
I just read their tells, each boss has them. Some fight I learn in 20 trys and others on first go. I beat The Grafted on my first try. I find the game, really makes you watch what the mobs do and rarely is there order to them. I have even seen mini boss take cover when getting picked off with ranged. That was thrilling.
I watch some.of the "pro" players and how they really focus on the tells and abilities. As a new player I thought I'd be able to get the swing of it...
But for me, for a long time I couldn't do it and I always wondered why I just wasn't "good enough" to fight toe to toe with the bosses. But as a spellsword in heavy armor with a shield and every weapon I could conceivably carry for every situation, I had very high weight, I didn't realize that the lower the weight the easier and faster you can roll out of the way and dodge.
In the end it didn't really matter though, there are a few bosses you really do need to dodge attacks, but my shield and just keeping my distance from the very worst attacks saved me more times than I could count.
By the second play through shield counters, poise breaks and criticals were the vast majority of my general damage. I stopped trying to dodge and embraced the shield!
If thats your play style, I use Ash of War: Barricade Shield on my Shield. Its a 15 second buff that makes you 100% block almost anything. Go look up the boss "Night's Cavalry" You will only find him at night. I had that Ash of War in my inventory for a few days before I tried it out lol.
Good tip. I have a ton of the ashes of war but never really used them because I was always using the legendary weapon that doesn't let you overwrite the ability.
Good to know there are options. I really need to start playing round with that stuff.
Some people don't care about achievements they care about playing how they want to play in the simplest purest manner possible, I don't care to earn achievements they are for show and tell, I do not care to flex in front of others I care to have fun
Some games have tangible in-game rewards attached to achievements, I care about those
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Some people don't care about achievements they care about playing how they want to play in the simplest purest manner possible, I don't care to earn achievements they are for show and tell, I do not care to flex in front of others I care to have fun
Some games have tangible in-game rewards attached to achievements, I care about those
This is understandable to if there is more then just bragging rights you better believe imma try to get achievements like a mad man if there are ingame incentives to get them
Well, there are only a few platinum achievements that are really for show. Most of the achievements are tied to killing bosses and all bosses give some kind of reward worth the battle.
I guess there are some optional bosses that are not necessary at all like malenia, and some secret bosses like the lich dragon that most people would only run into I think as an accident, but for the most part they did a good job of making the achievements in line with pretty much just going through the normal game.
If thats your play style, I use Ash of War: Barricade Shield on my Shield. Its a 15 second buff that makes you 100% block almost anything. Go look up the boss "Night's Cavalry" You will only find him at night. I had that Ash of War in my inventory for a few days before I tried it out lol.
The Turtle shield I mentioned has "Barricade" by default.
Some people don't care about achievements they care about playing how they want to play in the simplest purest manner possible, I don't care to earn achievements they are for show and tell, I do not care to flex in front of others I care to have fun
Some games have tangible in-game rewards attached to achievements, I care about those
Elden Ring has 1000 points of achievements like most games but most are for killing big bosses. So your right it's not a walk in the park. But sure feels epic when you earn one.
For those concerned about Elden Ring (or the older Dark Souls) harsh difficulty... the programmers put in an easy mode, and it's legit:
OVER LEVEL and OVER GEAR the areas/bosses giving you issues. Vastly easier when you do it, and you can tweak how far you push it per your individual player skill level.
Yep, you have to grind a bit extra... but if you're an average (or below average gamer)... it is a viable solution if you want to have a more chill experience.
For those concerned about Elden Ring (or the older Dark Souls) harsh difficulty... the programmers put in an easy mode, and it's legit:
OVER LEVEL and OVER GEAR the areas/bosses giving you issues. Vastly easier when you do it, and you can tweak how far you push it per your individual player skill level.
Yep, you have to grind a bit extra... but if you're an average (or below average gamer)... it is a viable solution if you want to have a more chill experience.
Go Google grind spots and you will find this to be very true. Gear guides as well.
Well my son, the games developer, loves it and has declared it to be the best thing since sliced bread and admits to slacking off his work to play it. That makes it official now.
He does know me well enough though to confine his comments to praise for ER without straying into the dangerous territory of bashing other open world RPGs like Skyrim or Witcher 3... at least around me
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Elden Ring can be the best RPG in the same sense as Star Wars could be the best SF.
Star Wars is Space Opera, a mix of SF and Fantasy, and not actually SF, which doesnt allow fantasy/magic. Thus it cannot be the best SF, because its not actually SF.
Elden Ring is an action RPG, a mix of regular action games and weak RPG elements, and not a RPG. Actual roleplaying games depend upon character stats to determine the outcome of actions. While Elden Ring very much relies on the actions of the player.
For example a player with poor reflexes but good intellect can shine at RPGs, because they require intellectual understanding of the game mechanics, but might get completely destroyed in Action RPGs, when you actually need good reflexes and coordination.
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Having vague tooltips like the Souls game is a design choice reminiscent of older games, but holds value. Adventure games are at their best when players get to stumble upon a cool feature or item. On the other hand, things like one way item cycling hearken waaayyyyyy back to even the time of the PS1- I remember cycling missiles in Twisted Metal. That older design element is less enjoyable.
But who cares.......
I love how the world and random encounters are all challenging and require the player to pay close attention, don't get me wrong. Memorizing animations to beat one extra hard-hitting enemy in the game that I'll never see again just holds me back from exploring more of that incredible world, though.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
But for me, for a long time I couldn't do it and I always wondered why I just wasn't "good enough" to fight toe to toe with the bosses. But as a spellsword in heavy armor with a shield and every weapon I could conceivably carry for every situation, I had very high weight, I didn't realize that the lower the weight the easier and faster you can roll out of the way and dodge.
In the end it didn't really matter though, there are a few bosses you really do need to dodge attacks, but my shield and just keeping my distance from the very worst attacks saved me more times than I could count.
By the second play through shield counters, poise breaks and criticals were the vast majority of my general damage. I stopped trying to dodge and embraced the shield!
Yeah I had more difficulties with the tree sentinel in Limgrave than Agheel which I killed on the first try (was a bit disappointed). I figured out quickly that the wings were safer to attack than the stomping feet.
Agheel was easy using the Demi-Human Queen's Glintstone Staff +5 and Glintstone Pebble, but I think I was a little overleveled by the time I went back and faced him. Was still a more exciting fight than Skyrim dragons imo, though.
Some of the toughest mobs, oddly enough, have simply been spear users. Their attacks all look similar at the beginning because, well... There's only so many ways to thrust a spear in one's hand. I've gotten to where I just block and counter-attack those.
Oddly enough, I've found that block counters are hit and miss in effectiveness. Block countering with the flail is useless half the time, as the swing misses human-sized enemies completely and just leaves me open to be smashed.
Good to know there are options. I really need to start playing round with that stuff.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
I guess there are some optional bosses that are not necessary at all like malenia, and some secret bosses like the lich dragon that most people would only run into I think as an accident, but for the most part they did a good job of making the achievements in line with pretty much just going through the normal game.
The Turtle shield I mentioned has "Barricade" by default.
OVER LEVEL and OVER GEAR the areas/bosses giving you issues. Vastly easier when you do it, and you can tweak how far you push it per your individual player skill level.
Yep, you have to grind a bit extra... but if you're an average (or below average gamer)... it is a viable solution if you want to have a more chill experience.
He does know me well enough though to confine his comments to praise for ER without straying into the dangerous territory of bashing other open world RPGs like Skyrim or Witcher 3... at least around me
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED