Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
Well I think of it the same way as I do the mMOs I occasionally go play.....My main MMO was EQ...In my guild of over 200 people, none are left but the occasional visit by me....Most havent even logged on in the last 5 years or more......I think its just the way of the world now...many things are very temporary......Just look at these last few new games....Massive rush to start then die off quickly....Theres alos tons of competition now and lets face it MMORPG just isnt cool like Twitter and Reddit....At least not to the kids.
Well spoken, but I don't see any ideas for a solution. If you're asking everyone to stop being so dumb, well, I just can't oblige. (get it? I'm dumb. ha!) I think a lot of the disinterest could come from the lack of freedom of speech, we simply aren't allowed to speak on anything that we want, and when it comes to disagreements people are probably in fear of the banhammer. That leads to a lot of stifled opinions and lurking. It should be a similar setup to reddit where if someone says something offensive they just get downvoted to hell and no one cares. Who the heck wants to go to a forum, which is designed around speaking your mind, and then get consequences when they do? Another thing to consider is that forums are simply getting to be a dated platform, why go to the MMORPG forums when theres a plethora of gaming subreddits and the like that can more specifically cater to your tastes? I wouldn't read too much into the lack of engagement on this site, a number of factors could play into that. The only reason I know this place exists is because of a 'free to play MMORPG list' thread that someone made in The Pub 20 years ago that I regularly referred to as a kid.
No, it's not lack of "freedom of speech" as you can talk on most topics. You're not going to be able to speak about incendiary topics such as politics or race or "whatever" but that's not what these forums are about.
Add to it that a good many posters just can't "keep it in their pants" and talk civilly and you get a good amount of your bans.
I would say that younger posters probably do prefer reddit (hate it, it looks a mess) and there aren't enough mmorpg's that are new to really entice players.
old school mmorpg's aren't for a good many players as most people just don't want to grind anymore and certainly don't want to be on the "questing" treadmill which is just nothing when it comes to engaging game play.
There are things about reddit that are quite good as long as you pick carefully from the 1 million+ subreddits available.
The subs do tend to be insular echo chambers but if you know that this is what it is ahead of time there's nothing wrong with that. There's value in discussing certain topics with like-minded people without heated debates too.
Everything and every place does not have to be evenly divided between the pro and anti something. That also has its place but I don't need it everywhere, For example one of my regular reddit hangouts is r/vaping which is a sub with about 80k people, most of whom are ex-smokers and are there to discuss devices, juice, etc. and help new vapers with advice. It's a very, very happy little sub where bickering or flaming are ultra rare.
On the subject of "free speech" I couldn't agree more with what you said. I have been in enough under-moderated internet places to know that it always ends badly and they become vile, hateful places very quickly.
It's kind of a pollyannish fantasy to want more of it on an internet forum.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The players aren't dead.. at least not yet. The games are though. In a MMORPG I should never be able to reach Max level in a week.. never. WTf is the point of making the game if people can just fly through the entire game?
Most people don't just fly through the game though.
People see a speed runner and somehow thinks that's applicable to everyone which just isn't the case.
Sorry to say most people don't realize how average they really are.
I don't really buy that, it's kind of a cop out. Games like Blade & Soul, Lost Ark.. there really is no game here. You can dive into 10 to 20 mobs and blindly hit your keyboard and mow them all down with 90% health left. When I played Blade and Soul, it was so easy that I never had to loot anything, equip anything and got to level 20 just by randomly hitting buttons like a deranged monkey. Seriously I tested it, I just sat back, closed my eyes and hit random keys to fight.
If I go back and load up DAOC do you honestly think I would be able to do that as a 'speed' runner? Hell no, I would get my ass handed to me. I know more about DAOC than most people on the planet and no way and I taking on 3 mobs at once solo and living to tell the tale. It just isn't happening and that's part of the problem. In the old games you had to think when you played, part of the game was actually leveling. There was a end game out there but it was gated and people weren't getting to it until after months of play.
To be clear I'm not looking for some huge grindy game, but true MMORPGs are more horizontal in their game play, leveling up is a huge part of the fun for a lot of people. It's almost like today's developers aren't even trying to capture a huge part of MMORPGs that players want to experience.
I should point out there are several places on the planet where you cannot speak out against leadership, talk about the news, or make your individualistic political opinion heard. This would be called a lack of freedom of speech, no quotes needed sir.
when you see something like this, it makes you think "I must be free to speak on anything I want here, no matter how incendiary!" is all I am suggesting.
Gonna be honest with you, I still take this as it should be about gaming, in some manner.
While it might give the impression you can post about how much you might loving popping pimples on your ass-cheeks, my inclination would that this forum as a whole, regardless of the sub topic, would not be that place for that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
I think you have good points. I also think, ohh irony, that just like the old MMORPGs we keep referring to as the pinnacle of the genre, we have become obsolete and the genre has passed us by. We don’t just talk about dinosaurs, we are dinosaurs, slowly fading into extinction. It is adapt or die and with the general mindset here it seems most prefer to die.
I still love you guys though, bunch of idiots, all of you
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I'm from a non-English speaking country, I need to use automatic translation to browse the articles on this site, I registered as a member to join the discussion today, this is my first time to express my opinion, I want to tell my friends here, "Many are like me Concerned about the development of the MMORPG game community. He didn't disappear, he just didn't speak. Come on guys :DD"
Welcome to the forums, always good to see new faces.
Thank you, I have been browsing this site and forum for half a year, and I find Western gaming forums and human touches comfortable
Translators don't always get it quite right, but lead to some humourous remarks.
"Human touches comfortable" implies a level of personal contact my wife would not appreciate.
I'm thinking the original intent was something along the lines of "human interaction enjoyable"
But again, keep visiting and sharing, we need all of the interaction we can get these days. (Just without the touching.)
Cheers.
Heh , go figure , we have a erhmmm "cat" that don't like being petted
Yeah, he's a bit "touchy".
Cats don't like being petted but their deluded owners think they care for it.
Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
I think you have good points. I also think, ohh irony, that just like the old MMORPGs we keep referring to as the pinnacle of the genre, we have become obsolete and the genre has passed us by. We don’t just talk about dinosaurs, we are dinosaurs, slowly fading into extinction. It is adapt or die and with the general mindset here it seems most prefer to die.
I still love you guys though, bunch of idiots, all of you
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How many of us on here see the old MMOs as the pinnacle? I certainly think that when it comes to the community, but not the games. I think most of us want a hybrid game that is somewhere between the old MMOs and the "modern game" (WoW executive speak). We do have posters who want to bring back the like of corpse runs but they are few and far between. Classic in a number of MMOs shows that old school is not obsolete, it is just exactly where the hybrid falls in terms of gameplay that divides opinion.
I happen to think you are one of our best posters even is we do not always agree, but I am far to retentive to make professions of love.
Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
I think you have good points. I also think, ohh irony, that just like the old MMORPGs we keep referring to as the pinnacle of the genre, we have become obsolete and the genre has passed us by. We don’t just talk about dinosaurs, we are dinosaurs, slowly fading into extinction. It is adapt or die and with the general mindset here it seems most prefer to die.
I still love you guys though, bunch of idiots, all of you
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How many of us on here see the old MMOs as the pinnacle? I certainly think that when it comes to the community, but not the games. I think most of us want a hybrid game that is somewhere between the old MMOs and the "modern game" (WoW executive speak). We do have posters who want to bring back the like of corpse runs but they are few and far between. Classic in a number of MMOs shows that old school is not obsolete, it is just exactly where the hybrid falls in terms of gameplay that divides opinion.
I happen to think you are one of our best posters even is we do not always agree, but I am far to retentive to make professions of love.
Disagreement is the spice of life, or something like that. As lang as some level of decency is kept when exchanging arguments.
And thank you very much, I know public display of affection is pretty hard for you Brits. So, I love you too Scot, I love you too. But seriously, much appreciated.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
I think you have good points. I also think, ohh irony, that just like the old MMORPGs we keep referring to as the pinnacle of the genre, we have become obsolete and the genre has passed us by. We don’t just talk about dinosaurs, we are dinosaurs, slowly fading into extinction. It is adapt or die and with the general mindset here it seems most prefer to die.
I still love you guys though, bunch of idiots, all of you
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How many of us on here see the old MMOs as the pinnacle? I certainly think that when it comes to the community, but not the games. I think most of us want a hybrid game that is somewhere between the old MMOs and the "modern game" (WoW executive speak). We do have posters who want to bring back the like of corpse runs but they are few and far between. Classic in a number of MMOs shows that old school is not obsolete, it is just exactly where the hybrid falls in terms of gameplay that divides opinion.
I happen to think you are one of our best posters even is we do not always agree, but I am far to retentive to make professions of love.
The pinnacle would have been UO2 for me. Released at about the same time than WoW, it would have been the contender versus the Everquest clone games (including WoW).
But EA choose to stay with the old outdated stuff instead.
Their bad.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
I think you have good points. I also think, ohh irony, that just like the old MMORPGs we keep referring to as the pinnacle of the genre, we have become obsolete and the genre has passed us by. We don’t just talk about dinosaurs, we are dinosaurs, slowly fading into extinction. It is adapt or die and with the general mindset here it seems most prefer to die.
I still love you guys though, bunch of idiots, all of you
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How many of us on here see the old MMOs as the pinnacle? I certainly think that when it comes to the community, but not the games. I think most of us want a hybrid game that is somewhere between the old MMOs and the "modern game" (WoW executive speak). We do have posters who want to bring back the like of corpse runs but they are few and far between. Classic in a number of MMOs shows that old school is not obsolete, it is just exactly where the hybrid falls in terms of gameplay that divides opinion.
I happen to think you are one of our best posters even is we do not always agree, but I am far to retentive to make professions of love.
The pinnacle would have been UO2 for me. Released at about the same time than WoW, it would have been the contender versus the Everquest clone games (including WoW).
But EA choose to stay with the old outdated stuff instead.
Their bad.
There was a lot of roleplaying going on in that game, but it was one I missed out on. They even had classes where you "learnt" magic, which rather feeds in to what we were talking about in the Harry Potter article.
Well spoken, but I don't see any ideas for a solution. If you're asking everyone to stop being so dumb, well, I just can't oblige. (get it? I'm dumb. ha!) I think a lot of the disinterest could come from the lack of freedom of speech, we simply aren't allowed to speak on anything that we want, and when it comes to disagreements people are probably in fear of the banhammer. That leads to a lot of stifled opinions and lurking. It should be a similar setup to reddit where if someone says something offensive they just get downvoted to hell and no one cares. Who the heck wants to go to a forum, which is designed around speaking your mind, and then get consequences when they do? Another thing to consider is that forums are simply getting to be a dated platform, why go to the MMORPG forums when theres a plethora of gaming subreddits and the like that can more specifically cater to your tastes? I wouldn't read too much into the lack of engagement on this site, a number of factors could play into that. The only reason I know this place exists is because of a 'free to play MMORPG list' thread that someone made in The Pub 20 years ago that I regularly referred to as a kid.
No, it's not lack of "freedom of speech" as you can talk on most topics. You're not going to be able to speak about incendiary topics such as politics or race or "whatever" but that's not what these forums are about.
Add to it that a good many posters just can't "keep it in their pants" and talk civilly and you get a good amount of your bans.
I would say that younger posters probably do prefer reddit (hate it, it looks a mess) and there aren't enough mmorpg's that are new to really entice players.
old school mmorpg's aren't for a good many players as most people just don't want to grind anymore and certainly don't want to be on the "questing" treadmill which is just nothing when it comes to engaging game play.
I should point out there are several places on the planet where you cannot speak out against leadership, talk about the news, or make your individualistic political opinion heard. This would be called a lack of freedom of speech, no quotes needed sir.
when you see something like this, it makes you think "I must be free to speak on anything I want here, no matter how incendiary!" is all I am suggesting.
The problem here is the site isn't policed equally, and ends up biased as heck. No one wants to be apart of any community like that, at least I don't. Forums are a much more personalized place where you can get to know each person who comments, unlike places like reddit, and people can get heated about anything these days. There is a constant divisiveness where people see someone's post on something, agree/disagree with it, and form an opinion about that person which affects their thoughts on the next post they see by them. This is why I am suggesting that forums are a dated platform, at least the way this site seems to manage them.
Regarding the OT I made this comment in that thread: I think it's a big reason why we're really losing participating members.
It's boring and most of our cyclic back and forth bores people. For my
part I'd much rather see people remain on topic and provide relevant,
insightful, and interesting comments about the OP.
We do see frequent posters occasionally banned, but when I look back through a
lot of old posts and thread necros most people just left and haven't
returned. In my opinion the lack of engagement due to bans is a nearly insignificant factor compared to the thousands of people who have simply lost interest in the "schtick" (as Iselin aptly described it) that comprises most of our posts here and moved on.
Add
on to this the sociopolitical mindset a large majority of our core
community shares, which I see as being well outside the mainstream gaming demographic, the often very abrasive way that is communicated,
along with the constantly rehashed comments and points of view, and we
have a good recipe for disengagement outside of the small effect bans
have.
The constant memes, baiting, low quality shit posting, derogatory barbs, and incessant forum PvP are just icing on that cake.
So in conclusion I think the issue is that we're mostly really boring now and that's the bottom line reason why we're experiencing a declining forum engagement. We need to stop blaming articles and forum moderation for what we have failed to deliver ourselves.
Well spoken, but I don't see any ideas for a solution. If you're asking everyone to stop being so dumb, well, I just can't oblige. (get it? I'm dumb. ha!) I think a lot of the disinterest could come from the lack of freedom of speech, we simply aren't allowed to speak on anything that we want, and when it comes to disagreements people are probably in fear of the banhammer. That leads to a lot of stifled opinions and lurking. It should be a similar setup to reddit where if someone says something offensive they just get downvoted to hell and no one cares. Who the heck wants to go to a forum, which is designed around speaking your mind, and then get consequences when they do? Another thing to consider is that forums are simply getting to be a dated platform, why go to the MMORPG forums when theres a plethora of gaming subreddits and the like that can more specifically cater to your tastes? I wouldn't read too much into the lack of engagement on this site, a number of factors could play into that. The only reason I know this place exists is because of a 'free to play MMORPG list' thread that someone made in The Pub 20 years ago that I regularly referred to as a kid.
Placing moderation into the hands of users like that also punishes all unpopular opinions, no matter how valid.
Well spoken, but I don't see any ideas for a solution. If you're asking everyone to stop being so dumb, well, I just can't oblige. (get it? I'm dumb. ha!) I think a lot of the disinterest could come from the lack of freedom of speech, we simply aren't allowed to speak on anything that we want, and when it comes to disagreements people are probably in fear of the banhammer. That leads to a lot of stifled opinions and lurking. It should be a similar setup to reddit where if someone says something offensive they just get downvoted to hell and no one cares. Who the heck wants to go to a forum, which is designed around speaking your mind, and then get consequences when they do? Another thing to consider is that forums are simply getting to be a dated platform, why go to the MMORPG forums when theres a plethora of gaming subreddits and the like that can more specifically cater to your tastes? I wouldn't read too much into the lack of engagement on this site, a number of factors could play into that. The only reason I know this place exists is because of a 'free to play MMORPG list' thread that someone made in The Pub 20 years ago that I regularly referred to as a kid.
No, it's not lack of "freedom of speech" as you can talk on most topics. You're not going to be able to speak about incendiary topics such as politics or race or "whatever" but that's not what these forums are about.
Add to it that a good many posters just can't "keep it in their pants" and talk civilly and you get a good amount of your bans.
"Politics" are getting into everything these days, gaming and MMOs included. It makes it hard to NOT talk about, or even mention politics when it invades the gaming and entertainment space.
It invades our movies, comics, and TV shows. Where do those of us who HATE politics supposed to go? Especially when "wrong think" is the one getting "banned." Talk about shutting down discussions
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Where do those of us who HATE politics supposed to go? Especially when "wrong think" is the one getting "banned."
Let me get this straight: you hate politics, but hold political views that are considered "wrong" by the majority (otherwise you wouldn't be banned). Is that right?
Where do those of us who HATE politics supposed to go? Especially when "wrong think" is the one getting "banned."
Let me get this straight: you hate politics, but hold political views that are considered "wrong" by the majority (otherwise you wouldn't be banned). Is that right?
I don't know about AlB specifically, but generally when I see the word "wrongthink" used, it's by someone referring, in reality, to some supposed obligation from the rest of us to leave disinformation and BS unchallenged so those spewing it don't get their feelings hurt.
It's a LOT like the term gaslighting: people use it all the time because it sounds serious, not because it really applies to the situation they're tagging with it.
It always comes down to who determines what is “disinformation”
Not really. Maybe in some instances, but disinformation is provable.
In terms of "wrongthink," being banned from a website forum is only a "punishment" in the most laughable, loosest term possible. To label such a thing as suffering for a "thoughtcrime" is just horribly inaccurate and does a disservice to people truly persecuted for speech.
Well spoken, but I don't see any ideas for a solution. If you're asking everyone to stop being so dumb, well, I just can't oblige. (get it? I'm dumb. ha!) I think a lot of the disinterest could come from the lack of freedom of speech, we simply aren't allowed to speak on anything that we want, and when it comes to disagreements people are probably in fear of the banhammer. That leads to a lot of stifled opinions and lurking. It should be a similar setup to reddit where if someone says something offensive they just get downvoted to hell and no one cares. Who the heck wants to go to a forum, which is designed around speaking your mind, and then get consequences when they do? Another thing to consider is that forums are simply getting to be a dated platform, why go to the MMORPG forums when theres a plethora of gaming subreddits and the like that can more specifically cater to your tastes? I wouldn't read too much into the lack of engagement on this site, a number of factors could play into that. The only reason I know this place exists is because of a 'free to play MMORPG list' thread that someone made in The Pub 20 years ago that I regularly referred to as a kid.
No, it's not lack of "freedom of speech" as you can talk on most topics. You're not going to be able to speak about incendiary topics such as politics or race or "whatever" but that's not what these forums are about.
Add to it that a good many posters just can't "keep it in their pants" and talk civilly and you get a good amount of your bans.
"Politics" are getting into everything these days, gaming and MMOs included. It makes it hard to NOT talk about, or even mention politics when it invades the gaming and entertainment space.
It invades our movies, comics, and TV shows. Where do those of us who HATE politics supposed to go? Especially when "wrong think" is the one getting "banned." Talk about shutting down discussions
Yup. I watched my college woman’s basketball team in the NCAA tourny today. The announcers continued to call the team by the wrong name all game, yet had time to spend talking about certain Florida laws…
Well, at least we kicked ass in the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It always comes down to who determines what is “disinformation”
Not really. Maybe in some instances, but disinformation is provable.
In terms of "wrongthink," being banned from a website forum is only a "punishment" in the most laughable, loosest term possible. To label such a thing as suffering for a "thoughtcrime" is just horribly inaccurate and does a disservice to people truly persecuted for speech.
We could have a whole discussion about this but it’s not nearly as easy at you make it sound.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It always comes down to who determines what is “disinformation”
Not really. Maybe in some instances, but disinformation is provable.
In terms of "wrongthink," being banned from a website forum is only a "punishment" in the most laughable, loosest term possible. To label such a thing as suffering for a "thoughtcrime" is just horribly inaccurate and does a disservice to people truly persecuted for speech.
We could have a whole discussion about this but it’s not nearly as easy at you make it sound.
Proving information as either false or true is not as difficult as you're making it sound, generally.
About the fuzziest part of proving disinformation would be intent. Even without intent, it fan still fairly easily be proven or disproven as misinformation.
Regardless, acting as if forum moderation is some kind of persecution in *any way* is a little dramatic.
No… it can be extraordinarily difficult. I can rattle off a dozen from the daily news but that would end up getting very political.
A dozen what, exactly? Random facts skimmed from the daily news?
We're talking about proving or disproving individual factual statements. I'm not talking about trying to suss out whether a media outlet has a political lean or bias- they all almost assuredly do.
No… it can be extraordinarily difficult. I can rattle off a dozen from the daily news but that would end up getting very political.
A dozen what, exactly? Random facts skimmed from the daily news?
We're talking about proving or disproving individual factual statements. I'm not talking about trying to suss out whether a media outlet has a political lean or bias- they all almost assuredly do.
What we are told are “facts” today turn out not to be reality later. I don’t trust anyones “facts”. Heck with deepfakes we soon won’t even be able to believe our own eyes and ears.
Edit to add gaming example:
Example… someone says Chronicles of Elyria is a scam. Points to list of statements by developer that proved to be untruthful and lack of any tangible product. Someone else objects and reports that person for libel… Says that the developer didn’t lie because they believed what they said was true..the developer was trying their best…
Which is the truth? Who gets to determine that?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
No… it can be extraordinarily difficult. I can rattle off a dozen from the daily news but that would end up getting very political.
A dozen what, exactly? Random facts skimmed from the daily news?
We're talking about proving or disproving individual factual statements. I'm not talking about trying to suss out whether a media outlet has a political lean or bias- they all almost assuredly do.
What we are told are “facts” today turn out not to be reality later. I don’t trust anyones “facts”. Heck with deepfakes we soon won’t even be able to believe our own eyes and ears.
Ahh, deep fakes are a good example of technology muddling things.
But I've yet to see a credible story where deep fakes were successfully used to harm someone. Mostly, it's been celebrity look-alike videos like the Tom Cruise guy. I do remember a certain pol having a video of her deceptively slowed down to make her appear drunk, but it was fairly quickly discarded as the fake it was. Certainly, I can't recall a time we had a political organization use a deepfake to legitimately try and spread propaganda disinformation. (edit here: a certain aggressive eastern European/Asian nation recently tried it, apparently, based on my Googling. Unsuccessfully, as it was quickly called out.)
To be fair: Dishonesty, mistakes, contextual errors.. All happen, because humans are imperfect. To discard the idea you can trust any facts actually renders you helpless in the face of the worst actors. Those are going to be the ones to weaponize your distrust. There's a reason ole George had the government in 1984 issue the command to the citizens to ignore their eyes and ears. Just a thought.
Comments
Well I think of it the same way as I do the mMOs I occasionally go play.....My main MMO was EQ...In my guild of over 200 people, none are left but the occasional visit by me....Most havent even logged on in the last 5 years or more......I think its just the way of the world now...many things are very temporary......Just look at these last few new games....Massive rush to start then die off quickly....Theres alos tons of competition now and lets face it MMORPG just isnt cool like Twitter and Reddit....At least not to the kids.
The subs do tend to be insular echo chambers but if you know that this is what it is ahead of time there's nothing wrong with that. There's value in discussing certain topics with like-minded people without heated debates too.
Everything and every place does not have to be evenly divided between the pro and anti something. That also has its place but I don't need it everywhere, For example one of my regular reddit hangouts is r/vaping which is a sub with about 80k people, most of whom are ex-smokers and are there to discuss devices, juice, etc. and help new vapers with advice. It's a very, very happy little sub where bickering or flaming are ultra rare.
On the subject of "free speech" I couldn't agree more with what you said. I have been in enough under-moderated internet places to know that it always ends badly and they become vile, hateful places very quickly.
It's kind of a pollyannish fantasy to want more of it on an internet forum.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If I go back and load up DAOC do you honestly think I would be able to do that as a 'speed' runner? Hell no, I would get my ass handed to me. I know more about DAOC than most people on the planet and no way and I taking on 3 mobs at once solo and living to tell the tale. It just isn't happening and that's part of the problem. In the old games you had to think when you played, part of the game was actually leveling. There was a end game out there but it was gated and people weren't getting to it until after months of play.
To be clear I'm not looking for some huge grindy game, but true MMORPGs are more horizontal in their game play, leveling up is a huge part of the fun for a lot of people. It's almost like today's developers aren't even trying to capture a huge part of MMORPGs that players want to experience.
While it might give the impression you can post about how much you might loving popping pimples on your ass-cheeks, my inclination would that this forum as a whole, regardless of the sub topic, would not be that place for that.
I still love you guys though, bunch of idiots, all of you
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I happen to think you are one of our best posters even is we do not always agree, but I am far to retentive to make professions of love.
And thank you very much, I know public display of affection is pretty hard for you Brits. So, I love you too Scot, I love you too. But seriously, much appreciated.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The pinnacle would have been UO2 for me.
Released at about the same time than WoW, it would have been the contender versus the Everquest clone games (including WoW).
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It's a LOT like the term gaslighting: people use it all the time because it sounds serious, not because it really applies to the situation they're tagging with it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In terms of "wrongthink," being banned from a website forum is only a "punishment" in the most laughable, loosest term possible. To label such a thing as suffering for a "thoughtcrime" is just horribly inaccurate and does a disservice to people truly persecuted for speech.
Well, at least we kicked ass in the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
About the fuzziest part of proving disinformation would be intent. Even without intent, it fan still fairly easily be proven or disproven as misinformation.
Regardless, acting as if forum moderation is some kind of persecution in *any way* is a little dramatic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
We're talking about proving or disproving individual factual statements. I'm not talking about trying to suss out whether a media outlet has a political lean or bias- they all almost assuredly do.
Example… someone says Chronicles of Elyria is a scam. Points to list of statements by developer that proved to be untruthful and lack of any tangible product. Someone else objects and reports that person for libel… Says that the developer didn’t lie because they believed what they said was true..the developer was trying their best…
Which is the truth? Who gets to determine that?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But I've yet to see a credible story where deep fakes were successfully used to harm someone. Mostly, it's been celebrity look-alike videos like the Tom Cruise guy. I do remember a certain pol having a video of her deceptively slowed down to make her appear drunk, but it was fairly quickly discarded as the fake it was. Certainly, I can't recall a time we had a political organization use a deepfake to legitimately try and spread propaganda disinformation. (edit here: a certain aggressive eastern European/Asian nation recently tried it, apparently, based on my Googling. Unsuccessfully, as it was quickly called out.)
To be fair: Dishonesty, mistakes, contextual errors.. All happen, because humans are imperfect. To discard the idea you can trust any facts actually renders you helpless in the face of the worst actors. Those are going to be the ones to weaponize your distrust. There's a reason ole George had the government in 1984 issue the command to the citizens to ignore their eyes and ears. Just a thought.