[Confession] I Dislike Dying...

AlBQuirky

I've been watching lots of players playing Elden Ring lately. It looks like a fun game and I ant to go explore that world!

But I HATE dying!

I am stuck in Valheim because the swamps kill me! Trolls attacking my settlements just delays me as I have to rebuild over and over. The cost of dying in Valheim makes the game not worth the effort for me. I can hear the "GIT GUD!" comments right now

So I look at Elden Ring and think, "I WANT to go explore that world!" But there is A LOT dying in that game. However, death does not seem as harsh as death in Valheim.

Even playing Horizon: Zero Dawn costs me valuable materials and ammunition with the every death. I'm at a point in this game where I wonder if I should continue on. I want to. I enjoy the setting and story. Aloy is a fun character. The limitations set for the game (bows, staves, traps, and bombs) add interesting decisions to the game play.

Pride is my biggest downfall, I admit. I can't let me go below a "normal" difficulty setting, aside from fat-finger skills (don't even go to controller vs keyboard suggestion LOL). I feel like my body and mind are not in cahoots, like real life. I mind thinks, "I can do that!" and my body replies, "You can certainly try!"

Maybe I just need to adjust my mental parameters? I am a wimp, after all

Yea, this is a validation post. Am I alone in this struggle? I see so many players "just deal with it" yet have tons of fun while dying. It's a challenge to be overcome for most of them. Am I lost difficult games now?

Jakobmiller

I think this boils down to the relation to failing. I have for many years of my life avoided failing, especially as a perfectionist as nothing you do is perfect, which means that it's bound to fail, which ends up in you not doing the project, play the game or whatever it can be. 

Nowadays I've definitely more come to term with failing and can enjoy a game like Elden Ring much more. I have a much more chill approach to it. 

So if you reflect about failing as a concept in real life. What does it mean to you?

Scorchien

For me dying is necessary in a game , if I told you could play thru X game and not ever die , what's the point , where is the challenge .. It makes no sense to me...

Probably why I like UO so much and the challenge with risk vs rewards it brings ..

I welcome death ..

But always " Die in Style"

Jakobmiller

tzervo said:

Jakobmiller said:

I think this boils down to the relation to failing. I have for many years of my life avoided failing, especially as a perfectionist as nothing you do is perfect, which means that it's bound to fail, which ends up in you not doing the project, play the game or whatever it can be. 

Nowadays I've definitely more come to term with failing and can enjoy a game like Elden Ring much more. I have a much more chill approach to it. 

So if you reflect about failing as a concept in real life. What does it mean to you?

This reminds me of a spin on a quote I read:

"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly."

Meaning try to do the things you want but have no experience in instead of being inhibited by the thought of failure, and strive to improve on them.

100%. I think it's an important life lesson as this is the essence of self-improvement. If you are scared of doing something new, which you are always going to be bad at (very few exceptions), you will remain as you've always been since you stopped developing, probably around your 20's. 

Psychology  

harken33

AlBQuirky said:

I've been watching lots of players playing Elden Ring lately. It looks like a fun game and I ant to go explore that world!

But I HATE dying!

I am stuck in Valheim because the swamps kill me! Trolls attacking my settlements just delays me as I have to rebuild over and over. The cost of dying in Valheim makes the game not worth the effort for me. I can hear the "GIT GUD!" comments right now

So I look at Elden Ring and think, "I WANT to go explore that world!" But there is A LOT dying in that game. However, death does not seem as harsh as death in Valheim.

Even playing Horizon: Zero Dawn costs me valuable materials and ammunition with the every death. I'm at a point in this game where I wonder if I should continue on. I want to. I enjoy the setting and story. Aloy is a fun character. The limitations set for the game (bows, staves, traps, and bombs) add interesting decisions to the game play.

Pride is my biggest downfall, I admit. I can't let me go below a "normal" difficulty setting, aside from fat-finger skills (don't even go to controller vs keyboard suggestion LOL). I feel like my body and mind are not in cahoots, like real life. I mind thinks, "I can do that!" and my body replies, "You can certainly try!"

Maybe I just need to adjust my mental parameters? I am a wimp, after all

Yea, this is a validation post. Am I alone in this struggle? I see so many players "just deal with it" yet have tons of fun while dying. It's a challenge to be overcome for most of them. Am I lost difficult games now?

I can sort of see your point about dying, I used to be like that myself, as an old-fashioned grinder. Death was something to fear in games, mainly thinking about EQ1 as a death could cost you hours of grinding.  I am sure for the folks that played EvE Online extensively they would try to avoid death as well to avoid potentially substantial loss, I only played for a few months and just enjoyed the mining.

My wife has 5 brothers, with 4 of them being 8+ years younger than us and one older.  

The older one and I when we would game together it was exploring every corner of the map, level the area, grind, get better equipment rinse and repeat to the next area. For PVP games like battlefront, Wot, Aces High choose complimentary classes, communicate constantly, kill enemies, and try to avoid dying.

With the 4 younger ones its all Call of Duty, rats in a maze, Leeroy Jenkins running around just shooting and dying. We have had them all stay over at the same time for various occasions so I will setup a couple tv’s in the family room, they bring their systems and there are 4 of them playing Call of Duty, sitting around together.  They die so many times in a match, but they were having so much fun. The controllers passed back and forth, even me and their older brother would participate, you die so often that everyone has a laugh for the interesting deaths but dying doesn’t bother them.

My advice, have a few beers (or whatever), play one of these styles of games where death happens often and eventually the sting disappears.

Still if it’s a single player game save as often as you can, there’s no need to be crazy /grin.

AlBQuirky

Thanks for the great replies!

I feel like I have "de-volved." I started MMORPGs with EQ. I used to love corpse runs! They added an element of "randomness" that I enjoyed. The penalty was harsh with XP/level loss and time to recover your body.

Next was City of Heroes where most players I encountered grabbed hold of the "hero" aspect of the game by wanting to be "the one" who sacrificed themselves so the others could get away. The "downside" was a penalty to XP earned (called debt) that had to be worked off until your XP gains went back to normal. There was even a Super Group called that tried to keep their members at maximum debt LOL

Of course that was 10 to 20 years ago. I've not aged well. No longer am I able sit in my desk chair huddled over my keyboard for hours or days without my back acting up. That "tiredness" is always in the back of my mind

Harken33 brought up a good distinction: solo vs playing with friends or others. EQ was not a great game, but some of the players I met there made it so much fun. I used to play some X-Box 360 games with my son. Laughing at and with each other was what made those games fun.

Right now, I play "comfortable" games. Games I "know," like Skyrim and X-Com: WotC. X-Com is certainly NOT an easy game, but I can mitigate the deaths somewhat. Recovering from them is not that hard for me.

I think tzervo had the gist of it: "Yes. Maybe I just need to adjust my mental parameters?"

Thanks again for the replies! I hope ya'll keep the discussion keep going on

Sovrath

AlBQuirky said:

Yea, this is a validation post. Am I alone in this struggle? I see so many players "just deal with it" yet have tons of fun while dying. It's a challenge to be overcome for most of them. Am I lost difficult games now?

I have fun dying.

In Elden Ring, while fighting Margit, I fell off the side twice. Once when he had about 15% health left.

it's funny.

For me the entirety of the game is amusing. If there is no chance to fail then it becomes a whole other different experience. 

More like an interactive toy. Which is fine, but Iike the idea of winning/losing.

This is not to say that it can't get tiring "just" dying. If that happens I take a break and come back refreshed. More often than not I am able to defeat the foe now that I am refreshed.

But as you point out, you (and others) don't like the failure state.

I would never suggest that perhaps there is a healthy way to deal with pride 

Sovrath

AlBQuirky said:

Right now, I play "comfortable" games. Games I "know," like Skyrim and X-Com: 

So you are, of course, playing my skyrim mod. Both Oldrim and Special editons available.

Iselin

I dislike dying too and don't get me started on death penalties

My purpose in games is to not die even when I'm up against something tough. If I die solo or in groups I consider it a personal failure and always blame myself even when I'm in a group with a healer or tank that suck.

It's why I tend to gravitate to DPS/healer hybrids in most games I play if that option is available. I may not do the best damage in the world but I can keep myself going.

Iselin

Sovrath said:

I have fun dying.

You're weird.

cheyane

I played HZD on casual first and then I went to normal difficulty once I got a grasp of the game. Some fights I still died. I am so happy that game gave me a choice to play the game at my comfort level. A big thank you.

I really hated dying in Everquest, god it was frightening when I lost my corpse in the Planes and I was unable to get to it because I had lost levels and I could not get back in. That game made dying such a bad thing you were so scared to do stuff sometimes. However I had a fantastic group of friends that were always there to help.

Dying can teach I think but too many deaths just make me give up in the end.

Mendel

I'm not a fan of dying, either.  What I really hate are games where dying is some kind of achievement and part of the game play.

With as many times as Mendel has died (many in an impossibly amusing way), you'd think I'd be used to it by now.

Sandmanjw

It totally depends on the player. And their outlook of "What is fun?" in a game.

As an example, my wife loves to raid in WOW. While I think that is some of the dumbest type of gameplay that was ever invented.

And to me, these "soul" type games that make you try over and over again to "learn to git gud" (which is the same as the raids do), are just as stupid to me, and I avoid  them all.

How anyone can ever attribute this type of game play to something fun is just not something I can ever understand.

Thank god people like me are not alone!!! Can not imagine having every game be like that....

And I am sure that people like my wife and others that like raiding, and soul games, are just as happy that my type games are not all that are out there.

Just goes to show, nothing wrong with what YOU like in gaming, be that wanting to walk around and smell flowers or be the king of said games....just find a game that YOU like and be happy. 

There are all different type of games out there. Do not be a sheep and buy every game that others like. You just make it where that type game will be cloned and released ad infinitum. 

Support the type of game YOU enjoy and care not what others think or say. You will be ever so much happier that way in your gaming hobby. 

Sovrath

Iselin said:

Sovrath said:

I have fun dying.

You're weird.

This is how I view a death in a video game...



warning for fake blood and high hilarity.

Theocritus

Anotehr vote for it depends on the game.....Most often it is no big deal...There usually are no remifications for dying.....

Sovrath

Mendel said:

I'm not a fan of dying, either.  What I really hate are games where dying is some kind of achievement and part of the game play.

With as many times as Mendel has died (many in an impossibly amusing way), you'd think I'd be used to it by now.

There's a game calleded Pathalogic 2 (and I suppose its predecessor Pathologic which is sort of the same game) where death is indeed part of the gameplay.

It's my understanding that it opens up other avenues of gameplay. I haven't played it but it's on my wishlist at gog.

I wonder if that would interest you? check it out.

It's also possible it's more of a niche game.

https://www.gog.com/en/game/pathologic_2

jitter77

I think it was uncharted 4. I had it on the hardest level and i could not get past this one part.   I finally beat it and it showed the stats at the end.   I had over 500 deaths.   At least 90% were from that one section.   I got stuck on one of the dragon age bosses once too.  It was a long grueling fight.   I finally beat it after a 40 minute battle. 

Scot

If it is single player death is not an issue, if it is multiplayer it can be. It is something we just have to move past, but it is bloody annoying. 

TheDalaiBomba

It depends on how heavily the game leans on the narrative and what the consequences for dying are.

In narrative-focused games, dying quickly becomes a jarring way to rip me from being immersed in the game's narrative.

FromSoftware actually had a stroke of genius in pairing their difficulty with minimal narrative.  The lack of a large driving narrative force makes stalling on a boss for hours less jarring.

Scot

Sovrath said:

Iselin said:

Sovrath said:

I have fun dying.

You're weird.

This is how I view a death in a video game...



warning for fake blood and high hilarity.

Who needs slow motion camera effects when you have such a great actor who can do slow motion combat himself?  

harken33

Scot said:

If it is single player death is not an issue, if it is multiplayer it can be. It is something we just have to move past, but it is bloody annoying. 

Tzervo mentioned a great point that if it is unpleasant and boring to get back to that point it lowers the fun.

I can remember playing some Older Single Player RPG's before they created a Skip option for dialogue scenes. Go through 5 or more minutes of dialogue, unable to be skipped past, which is interesting the first, possibly second time, die to the final boss and listen again. I always found this much more annoying then say making your way through a dungeon, losing to the final boss then having to go through the dungeon again.

cameltosis

Fear of Failure - and death is a failure - is very common, so don't worry about it. Letting that fear control you can be a problem, but the fear itself is normal.

There are generally two factors that I weigh up when it comes to failure:

1) What are the consequences of failure?

Real life has big consequences for failure. I could lose my job, my partner, my friends, my money, my house. This usually makes me quite fearful IRL and so I am less willing to risk failure.

But games? Games usually have minimal consequences to death, often nothing more than a bit of time lost.

2) Was I having fun before I failed?

If I was enjoying the activity itself, then failure doesn't really matter. For example, when I was learning to play roller derby, I really enjoyed learning to skate and I enjoyed spending time with friends. Losing a scrim or a game didn't matter.

But, if I wasn't enjoying the activity itself, then failure becomes a big deal. For example, I used to be a software engineer, but I hated being a programmer. That meant I was focused on results, not on the job itself, so a failure was a big deal.

Elden Ring is an interesting example of whether death is fun or not. I'm about 20 hours in and I've died a lot. I find myself ambivalent. There are basically no consequences to dying - assuming you can get back to the spot where u died and collect ur runes. However, nearly all my deaths have happened during boss fights, and the boss fights suck balls and I don't enjoy them at all.

This leaves me in a state where im not afraid to die, but I'm also frustrated by the deaths because it means prolonging an unenjoyable part of the game.

Scot

harken33 said:

Scot said:

If it is single player death is not an issue, if it is multiplayer it can be. It is something we just have to move past, but it is bloody annoying. 

Tzervo mentioned a great point that if it is unpleasant and boring to get back to that point it lowers the fun.

I can remember playing some Older Single Player RPG's before they created a Skip option for dialogue scenes. Go through 5 or more minutes of dialogue, unable to be skipped past, which is interesting the first, possibly second time, die to the final boss and listen again. I always found this much more annoying then say making your way through a dungeon, losing to the final boss then having to go through the dungeon again.

I think you should not be able to skip cutscenes but only the first time. In multiplayer it is harder to do right, you could be in a group.

AlBQuirky

Sovrath said:

AlBQuirky said:

Right now, I play "comfortable" games. Games I "know," like Skyrim and X-Com: 

So you are, of course, playing my skyrim mod. Both Oldrim and Special editons available.

I DO have it downloaded (will play the SE version). I'm going to start a fresh run soon with NO other mods so I can experience what you've worked so hard on

AlBQuirky

Sandmanjw said:

It totally depends on the player. And their outlook of "What is fun?" in a game.

As an example, my wife loves to raid in WOW. While I think that is some of the dumbest type of gameplay that was ever invented.

And to me, these "soul" type games that make you try over and over again to "learn to git gud" (which is the same as the raids do), are just as stupid to me, and I avoid  them all.

How anyone can ever attribute this type of game play to something fun is just not something I can ever understand.

Thank god people like me are not alone!!! Can not imagine having every game be like that....

And I am sure that people like my wife and others that like raiding, and soul games, are just as happy that my type games are not all that are out there.

Just goes to show, nothing wrong with what YOU like in gaming, be that wanting to walk around and smell flowers or be the king of said games....just find a game that YOU like and be happy. 

There are all different type of games out there. Do not be a sheep and buy every game that others like. You just make it where that type game will be cloned and released ad infinitum. 

Support the type of game YOU enjoy and care not what others think or say. You will be ever so much happier that way in your gaming hobby. 

That brings to mind "rogue-like/lite" games, where dying is part of the game. I've never been a fan of them, but see the appeal as players puzzle out how to overcome the obstacles.

I'm glad that so many different types exist. I have ideas about what appeals to me and try games that fit that picture I have in my head

AlBQuirky

TheDalaiBomba said:

It depends on how heavily the game leans on the narrative and what the consequences for dying are.

In narrative-focused games, dying quickly becomes a jarring way to rip me from being immersed in the game's narrative.

FromSoftware actually had a stroke of genius in pairing their difficulty with minimal narrative.  The lack of a large driving narrative force makes stalling on a boss for hours less jarring.

That's really insightful! Food for thought for me